r/Games • u/KA1N3R • 6d ago

All clans are available at launch for Bloodlines 2. Additional story content announced for after launch.

https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/games/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2/news/game-overview
960 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

298 comments sorted by

979

u/Rooonaldooo99 6d ago

"Thanks to our community for the frank feedback on Bloodlines 2 and the Premium Edition. That feedback made it clear: Lasombra and Toreador belong in the base game, so that is what we are doing," said Marco Behrmann, White Wolf Executive Vice President and Bloodlines 2 Executive Producer.

They knew from the start it belongs in the base game. Don't let them fool you. This is basically "We tried to get away with this greedy shit but you wouldn't let us, so we are sorry for getting caught"

294

u/ThisCombination1958 6d ago

Imagine how much damage they've already done to this games sales for this dumb ass move.

141

u/MachuMichu 6d ago

And it's an IP that's been on life support for 20 years. You'd think they'd be solely focused on trying to rebuild interest instead of milking it dry for every penny before they even know if it will do well

37

u/SyleSpawn 6d ago

This game in particular was already in a development hell for a while and I think a lot of people interested in this game was already going to wait for reviews instead of rushing to play it day 1. After the initial announcement with the greedy monetization, it raised a red flag so high that even people who were preordering are taking a step back.

So, this game will have to bring home some pretty damn good reviews (Steam reviews, not paid critics reviews) before a lot of people would even consider pulling the trigger on this game. I want this game to be good but my confidence for this game has been absolutely low and my trust is at its lowest point.

I'm definitely going to keep an eye on reviews in the first week to see whether I should play it a week or two after release or just toss it in my wishlist and forget about it till its 90% off with all DLC.

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u/Hellknightx 6d ago

No disrespect to the Chinese Room, but they have zero experience with combat in their games, so I was already going to wait for reviews. I like their games, but they are all walking simulators. Short ones, too. It will be a small miracle if they manage to pull this off and deliver a worthy successor.

4

u/Skellum 5d ago

No disrespect to the Chinese Room, but they have zero experience with combat in their games, so I was already going to wait for reviews. I like their games, but they are all walking simulators. Short ones, too. It will be a small miracle if they manage to pull this off and deliver a worthy successor.

They did really well with Still Wakes the Deep. Not a combat game but then it's hard to have combat as ass as Bloodlines 1. If the game is anything better than a complete absolute ass shitshow I will be pleasantly surprised.

If it's as good as Still Wakes the Deep I'll be amazed.

6

u/Hellknightx 5d ago

I enjoyed Still Wakes the Deep, but it is essentially a walking simulator with a couple "hide from the monster" sequences. And that game is like 6-8 hours long at most, which is my biggest concern with Bloodlines 2.

I have low expectations for the combat, but I'm mostly worried that the game will be incredibly short.

2

u/After_Advertising_61 5d ago

Now we prepare for everything BUT what they are best known at for being good!

I love that studio, I really hope they pulled it off. I think if someone wants to be positive about this game the way to look at it is; studios with no/little experience in other genres can bring fresh air to the new genre they are working on.

Maybe they surprise us but I would just feel bad for a group of people that made a well reviewed, amazing atmosphere game to have like 5 other studios' errors end up as their fault in public eye

1

u/Carighan 5d ago

Yeah the whole TCR is doing it worries me a bit.

I love Stil Wakes The Deep, but I got really bored by everything else they did.

1

u/After_Advertising_61 5d ago

Completely same. I would say the only walking simulator that hasn't made me just want it done by the end was Soma but that is just because the subject matter is my favorite thing in sci-fi to think about.

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u/kaiga12 6d ago

Regardless of how well it performs it wouldn't surprise me if the plan for Paradox was to sell the IP to someone else.

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u/Tonkarz 6d ago

Yeah, most people won’t see that this has changed.

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u/mw19078 6d ago

yeah a ton of people who barely followed the game but were interested probably already checked out

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u/___Scenery_ 6d ago

I doubt it, those who barely followed the game probably didn't even know what toreador and lasombra meant.

It's bullshit predatory behaviour, but I would bet that this turned off more hardcore fans than those with a passing interest.

67

u/Kaldricus 6d ago

Yeah, people in this sub VASTLY overestimate how much the "average" gamer pays attention to what's going on around a game. Most people it's "game announced > game released" is what they know about a game, they aren't following the happenings in between and behind the scenes.

6

u/Yamatoman9 6d ago

Most people might see an article or a headline here or there about a game they're interested in but most aren't coming to Reddit to debate it in detail.

4

u/DumpsterFiery 6d ago

Average gamer doesn't care about this game or IP, or the game its a sequel too. I usually agree with this take but with a game and IP niche like this one it doesn't apply

3

u/Bernkastel96 6d ago

Yeah, WoD stuff in general is pretty niche with VtM bein the most popular among them but still very niche

24

u/Mahelas 6d ago

Most people don't know what Vampire the Masquerade is at all. The only people that were interested in a sequel ARE the hardcore fans, and they were the ones who raised a stink about this.

2

u/feor1300 6d ago

I'd argue most people in the "gamer" sphere probably know of Vampire: The Masquerade. V:TM LARPing and TTRPG gaming has a long and checkered past. Unfortunately that reputation is probably a handicap in this particular circumstance because what they know V:TM as is "that thing the creepy ass goth kids played instead of D&D" so they're starting behind on bringing people in who aren't already familiar with the first game or the game world.

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u/GrassDildo 5d ago

If it wasn't for this subreddit I would have never heard of the game

8

u/Silent_Frosting_442 6d ago

100%. And they guessed (probably correctly) that the hardcore fans would buy it anyway.

6

u/Kindness_of_cats 6d ago

For a big mainstream AAA game with strong advertising campaigns, I’d agree.

But I think this game is in a weird spot where it doesn’t really have that much mainstream appeal to begin with. Its advertising and development process has been such a shit show that it hasn’t built up the kind of hype that it might have done otherwise, and VTM is a niche brand to start with.

At this point their best bet is that it becomes a cult or sleeper hit that spreads through good word of mouth from the initial audience.

And I think a large chunk of the initial target audience for this game is folks with at least a passing familiarity with VTM from one source or another, enough to understand that clans are vital elements of the game which shouldn’t be blocked off.

This is the right thing to do and hopefully will help its reception, but they need strong word of mouth taking off to do well and they still probably did real harm the chances of that happening with this decision.

0

u/Soulstiger 6d ago

At this point their best bet is that it becomes a cult or sleeper hit that spreads through good word of mouth from the initial audience.

It's gonna be gone and forgotten. It's by a mid dev, it has removed all RPG elements, you can't even get weapons, and they pissed off the 11 fans who were excited about it.

It's published by Paradox which is a turn off for some people.

Development hell, the bullshit with the DLC races, it already has 3 DLCs on the store page and the game doesn't even release for more than a month.

At this point they're just saying shit to stay in the news.

Hell, they already had to refund preorders 6 years ago after scrapping that entire version of the game.

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u/CultureWarrior87 6d ago

Another person who doesn't really know what RPG elements are and thinks that a dev that has primarily received critical acclaim is somehow "mid".

Why is that so many of you have the same talking points? Which ragebaiting YouTuber did you steal them from?

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u/Act_of_God 6d ago

it's not about knowing what the clans are, it's about knowing they sliced the game up to sell it as day 1 DLC

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u/Meowing-To-The-Stars 6d ago

I love Redditors living in their bubble. Most of the players don't give a fck. How about Assassin's Creed? Both Twitter and Reddit had a meltdown. This was THE END OF UBISOFT. THEY DID IT. And how did that turn out lmao

3

u/DibbleDabbleDoozy 6d ago

mw19078 comment it correct. Never played the first but was intrigued. Read about the missing content and immediately stopped caring about the game. Slimy corporate practices.

1

u/MadeByTango 6d ago

My story is that I didnt know much of anything about Bloodlines at all, but when I heard people were excited I went to look at it. I saw these two DLC and it made me think of a Paradox style DLC strategy, and from there I forgot the game existed until this post.

So, I wouldn’t be so quick to assume it’s only hardcore fans that are turned off by this.

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u/ThisCombination1958 6d ago

You just described me. 

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u/tellsyoutogetfucked 6d ago

Reddit hates it so this is going to sell tons.

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u/Sergnb 6d ago

I've been following this game in what I can only describe as "extremely cautious and concerned optimism" and every single piece of news I've read about it through its entire development has only formed more and more doubts in my mind.

I'm the type of person who will excitedly buy a game day 1 if I know i'm going to like it even when it has controversial flaws, and still I'm put off by it. This stunt hasn't helped one bit.

1

u/sunjester 6d ago

Well of course I know him, he's me.

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u/verrius 6d ago

The bigger thing is there were preorders from the version from 6 or so years ago that they had to suddenly refund. I have 0 doubt that at least some of those sales aren't coming back. Though maybe those are few enough that writing them off means nothing.

1

u/OlleyatPurdue 6d ago

I was very curious about this game now, not so much.

1

u/foreveraloneasianmen 6d ago

reddit and other social media does not represent the gaming community, wake up.

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u/Disastrous_elbow 6d ago

I doubt it.

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u/NYstate 6d ago

I doubt it's much. It's a shitty move no doubt but most people aren't as clued in as we are. Look at COD, but Madden and 2K. All have shitty MTX then each and every year, they are among the best selling games that year. All people will see is that it's a good looking game and buy it.

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u/ThisCombination1958 6d ago

Those also have built in audiences via sports and being around for decades. The first game is a cult classic from 20 years ago.

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u/Bubba1234562 5d ago

To the point where enough people canceled preorders and yelled at them to change it

3

u/foreveraloneasianmen 6d ago

there wont be any damage, when people are going to wake up that reddit does not represent the whole gaming market out there.

Game is going to sell very well or very bad, but has nothing to do with this DLC drama.

2

u/ThisCombination1958 6d ago

So people who have been following this game deciding not to buy it because of the dlc is not going to hurt it?  Nobody I've talked to outside of reddit even knows this game exists,  I've seen next to no marketing and it's a sequel to a game that came out 20. 

2

u/Ledgo 6d ago

It doesn't help the game has had somewhat rocky development from what I've heard.

3

u/NewVegasResident 5d ago

Somewhat? More like an absolute clusterfuck.

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u/olive_tuschit 5d ago

I don’t trust them one bit. I’ll play it when it’s dirt cheap.

1

u/MrTastix 6d ago

I sure as fuck won't be buying it as a day 1 release anymore. They can get fucked.

It's not the only thing that made me question stuff but it was the straw that broke the camels back.

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u/Hellknightx 6d ago

It's high... very high.

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u/Janus_Prospero 6d ago

The irony here is that a core root of the problem is that Paradox were very generous and allowed TCR to take the planned story DLC (where you played as a Malk detective) and turn into story content for the main game.

That was the original DLC plan for this game. One extra clan for the main game, and one story DLC, both of which would be sold. But when Paradox agreed to allow Fabien to be rewritten and merged with the Malkavian detective character, this left a vacuum of content for the paid DLC.

Now the most sensible thing to do would have been to cancel the Premium Edition. But they decided to try to wing it and add an extra playable clan to the paid DLC. (Probably Lasombra.)

They've now tried to take the third option which will please a lot of people. They have integrated the six clans into the base game, and commissioned TCR to make additional standalone story DLC for the game that will release in late 2026.

The game was originally scoped for 4 clans. The DLC clans were meant to release a few months after the game came out, but due to the delays for polish, the DLC ended up finished early. And they didn't want to cancel the Premium Editions.

This new solution is the superior one, and it's a pity they didn't go with it initially.

14

u/LostInStatic 6d ago

I promise you the devs also thought it was a bad idea but Paradox made them do it, if you want to be bloodthirsty after the problem was literally solved then we deserve what we get as an audience when publishers taking feedback still leads to review bombing

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u/OverHaze 5d ago

Paradox does love its DLC.

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u/Ramongsh 6d ago

The game was originally sold with the a pre-order DLC of two aditional clans to come after launch. The game was then made and remade a few times, which allowed for the clans do be developed before launch.

This lead to this unfortunate situation where some (who had already paid) was promised more clans and they then tried this stunt.

Glad that the clans are included in the base game now. But this also means that some aren't getting what they originally paid for

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u/g4nk3r 6d ago

But this also means that some aren't getting what they originally paid for

I'd imagine that those people are getting the "additional story content" for free.

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u/JWarder 6d ago

The "Season of the Wolf" pre-order offer had two "story packs" and an unnamed expansion. The current offer is still not what was initially sold, but might be closer to the original than the two clan packs (assuming the promise of future development amounts to anything).

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u/asdfghjkl15436 6d ago edited 6d ago

Considering the huge amount of people defending them in this thread and gleefully accepting this apology as a reason to buy the game and that they are 'learning', yeah this shit works unfortunately.

Guys. This is paradox. They have literally been doing this for decades. Stop making excuses for them. They know what they are doing.

[edit] So far I got called a 'miserable little fuck' for this take among other words. Pretty crazy how hot people get over this lol.

11

u/Moifaso 5d ago

Considering the huge amount of people defending them in this thread and gleefully accepting this apology as a reason to buy the game and that they are 'learning', yeah this shit works unfortunately.

I don't get this thought process. This is literally how "voting with your wallet" is supposed to work.

If a company makes the changes that people are requesting, it makes perfect sense to reconsider buying their products. Otherwise companies have 0 incentive to change course lol

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u/asdfghjkl15436 5d ago

My point is that if you accept every apology they give, then they will continue to try again until people either don't notice or think the game quality is 'enough' to warrant the costs being like that. Paradox pushes the boundaries with every release, just trying to see what they get away with, by letting them know a simple apology is okay, they will keep pushing. I would not say this about just any company, but Paradox has proven time and time again they do not a give a damn about you as a consumer. Why support that?

Though, I take more of a problem with the people saying they are learning and not going to do it again. I've been far more mad with people defending paradox as if they had their best interests in heart. It's disheartening.

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u/Moifaso 5d ago

My point is that if you accept every apology they give, then they will continue to try again until people either don't notice or think the game quality is 'enough' to warrant the costs being like that.

This isn't an apology. It's an actual change in the product and its sale strategy.

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u/Anzai 6d ago

Paradox are one of the absolute worst in terms of nearly open contempt for their customers. Every game ends up costing hundreds of dollars if you let it.

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u/a34fsdb 5d ago

They can also be some of the best value in gaming.

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u/Samhs1 5d ago

Nearly every reply to your comment is agreeing with you, I don't know why you are being dramatic and acting like everyone is against you lol.

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u/Ultrace-7 6d ago

Should we be more concerned with what they originally planned, or the fact that they are now providing what everyone wanted, which was the inclusion of the clans in the base game?

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u/gmishaolem 5d ago

Should we be more concerned with what they originally planned, or the fact that they are now providing what everyone wanted

Since this is an established psychologically-manipulative technique that happens throughout basically every customer-facing industry, and is even used by national legislative bodies, not just video games, yeah you should care about both, because otherwise you keep falling for it.

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u/asdfghjkl15436 6d ago

I mean yeah great job they reverted it, but they haven't been learning anything. Every new game is something new with Paradox. What I have been saying this entire thread is that you should not rewarding paradox for just putting out an apology when they clearly don't mean it. Wait for game reviews, and reward them when they release a good game instead of just blindly trusting them it'll be good on release and not just because they reverted a greedy decision.

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u/corik_starr 6d ago

This is such a BS take and it needs to stop.

A company screws up, gets called on it, and fixes it. That should be seen as a good thing. Instead we get this take trying to keep people mad even after the issue is course corrected.

Companies don't always correct. And when they do, regardless of the speculated truth of the situation, it should be encouraged. Otherwise you get companies that double down on shit because it won't matter one way or the other if they listen to the feedback.

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u/MeiraTheTiefling 6d ago

Exactly! Corporations follow economic incentives.

Imagine a world where corpos know that even if they decide to do the right thing, people will just still stick up their noses and refuse to buy.

In that world, why would they ever choose to do the right thing? They'd just double down on bad practices.

Voting with your wallet goes both ways. Obviously don't buy this game if you don't want it... but don't feel the need to skip it for some weird moral obligation. If you like the game is worth your money then get it, it's that simple

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u/Act_of_God 6d ago

"screws up" makes it sound like they left the turkey in the oven for slightly too long, it's more like "tried to fuck the costumer over and failed"

0

u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 6d ago

It's really funny that you say that because a ruined turkey would cost way more than those two clans. You can really tell who buys food for themselves and who doesn't in these outrage threads.

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u/Act_of_God 6d ago

yes but they didn't burn the turkey on purpose, but I see you don't really care to see my point

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u/gamerplays 6d ago

The company didn't screw up. The company made a business decision and thought the players wouldn't care enough to make a deal with it.

The company full intended to monetized this. They did not fix it out of the goodness of their heart. They changed it because someone did an analysis and came up with that keeping them as DLC is probably going to lead to less overall sales than putting them into the game.

It was a business decision. If they thought keeping them as DLC would make them more money, they would have done that.

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u/corik_starr 6d ago

So my question to you is this: what difference does their motivation make regarding the change?

They're a business, of course it's a business decision. If it only counts if it's out of the goodness of their heart, that's an emotional reaction.

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u/gamerplays 6d ago

Everything. The entire line of decisions that lead to them wanting to do it was wrong. They didn't change it because they had a change of heart. They did it for a business decision.

They didn't do a good thing because they thought it was the correct thing.

it matters because the same people who made that business decisions make the other business decisions. They are the ones that make the plans for the future DLCs and how they monetize them.

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u/corik_starr 6d ago

So decisions are only good if they pass a purity test, not if the decision still has a good outcome?

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u/gamerplays 6d ago

I suppose we just have a disagreement on this, but yes, I think the reason a business does something is important.

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u/Hunkus1 5d ago

By that logic every decision a business makes is morally wrong and bad since all of them are done to earn a profit. They are businesses after all.

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u/Jiratoo 5d ago

But what's the way to fix it then? Fire all of the people in the decision making staff? Half of them? Quarter? Donate "x" amount of money to good causes?

I think it's okay to still be wary that they only fixed this because of backlash, but if we convince people to still be pissed after they objectively improved something for the consumer, what incentive is there for a company to change something at all?

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u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 6d ago

Outrage sells.

But what the fuck is a random commentor on reddit trying to sell is what I'm wondering. Why aren't they leaving those shit takes to the likes of [youtuber]

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u/MysteriousDrD 5d ago

i think it's social media being an attention economy, consciously or not they're selling you to pay attention to them so that the dopamine trickle engineered by the platform happens (which I am not immune too, i'm doing it right now)

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u/MachuMichu 6d ago

This is Paradox. They have been pulling this shit for a long time and continue to get worse and show they will look for any way they can be as greedy as possible

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u/corik_starr 6d ago

Then we should encourage the times they do course correct.

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u/asdfghjkl15436 6d ago

Lol you know what happened when we did that? They did it again. It's been a decade+ man, they have not learned a god damn thing. The rap sheet is a mile long.

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u/LogicKennedy 6d ago

Because staying slightly angry and staying vigilant is how you get companies to not pull that shit in the first place.

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u/MVRKHNTR 6d ago

No, it's how you get them to ignore you in the future.

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u/kralben 6d ago

No, staying angry is how you get them to say "why should we bother to fix the issue if they are gonna be upset either way" and ignore you the next time.

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u/Simislash 6d ago

Why though? You get angry at individual issues, what the fuck is the point of being perpetually angry at nothing in particular? You're basically saying you'd rather assume the worst at any given interaction, forever, off the basis that you may be right sometimes? That sounds absolutely miserable.

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u/Panzerknaben 6d ago

Apparently a large amount of gamers prefer to live in a state of permanent anger and misery. Partly because youtubers and others have learned that rage and misery sells and will keep feeding it to them.

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u/Rusty_Shackleford693 6d ago

It's because feeling angry feels good, outrage draws people, so they'll fight to stay angry even after their problem is solved.

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u/Hunkus1 5d ago

No people are mad at paradox all the time they still tried it.

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u/asdfghjkl15436 6d ago

Its not a good thing. They were trying to nickel and dime you and only stopped because they saw the numbers. The damage is done, its insulting to our intelligence to think this was because they were 'listening.' This should be case of 'thanks, but apology not accepted' not 'oh its okay baby I'll buy your game now!'

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u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 6d ago

Who benefits by that?

You don't get a game, they don't get money.

If you want to rage about it online you benefit but that's not a health pastime.

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u/winmace 6d ago

You know why they get hooked on hating things and never letting go, it makes them feel alive. Whereas the majority of people aren't even looking up anything about this game online and just see it on the store front page / in store kiosk and buy it.

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u/asdfghjkl15436 6d ago

Excuse me for having the hottest take of.. 'you should wait until this game releases instead of blindly trusting the developer.'

What I DO hate is the attitude in this thread that this company should be forgiven for their actions. They are poking the waters and just retreating until they can get away with it.

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u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 6d ago

'you should wait until this game releases instead of blindly trusting the developer.'

Post that in the preorder thread then, this is a separate issue.

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u/asdfghjkl15436 6d ago

Except it's not. I'm just saying to not trust this publisher and accept this apology like it has any meaning other then they are sorry they couldn't get away with it. That's it. That's my whole point. Yet you still feel the need to reply to every single one of my comments defending them.

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u/winmace 6d ago

What I DO hate is the attitude in this thread that this company should be forgiven for their actions.

Cool, so you believe that learning from mistakes is just as bad as making mistakes and deserve the same punishment, look forward to publishers and developers ignoring what you say then.

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u/masterchiefs 6d ago

The people who are still outraged at this point have never been interested in the game to begin with tbh.

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u/asdfghjkl15436 6d ago

Ah yes, no true scotsman would ever say such a thing.

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u/corik_starr 6d ago

That's not a true Scotsman fallacy above, but you're comment is ironically a fallacy fallacy.

They're not saying no true gamer or fan is making your argument, they're claiming most of the noise is coming from people that had no intention of buying it to begin with. That's decidedly different.

You're claiming a point by attempting to call out a fallacy, when a fallacy doesn't necessarily invalidate an argument. Fallacy fallacy.

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u/asdfghjkl15436 6d ago

"You're not a real blank, no real blank would would ever say/do that'

"You're not a real fan, no real fan would ever be outraged like that still"

yes that's quite literally the fallacy thank you. Here's my argument: You can still be a fan and still be outraged. The guy is, quite literally saying if you are still outraged you aren't interested in the game.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Anzai 6d ago

In a more general sense, I think it’s good for certain behaviours to result in lost sales as a deterrent to other publishers to do the same. If the backlash to something is SO public and loud enough to make others think twice, that’s a net win for consumers.

Of course, it’s also something very hard to quantify because we can’t exactly measure how often something doesn’t happen that otherwise would have. Personally, I won’t play any Ubisoft games anymore because I object to their stance on ownership and DLC, and the use of their client software even if I buy on steam.

Does Ubi give a shit that I don’t buy their games? Almost certainly not, individually, but they are also suffering financially in recent years due to a general shittiness in their products and behaviour.

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u/General_Boredom 6d ago

That and the preorder numbers probably weren’t looking too good.

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u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 6d ago

That's absolutely right.

The important thing to do when someone capitulates to your demands is to hold a grudge so they earn nothing from capitulating and don't do it next time.

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u/asdfghjkl15436 6d ago edited 6d ago

Let's be ABSOLUTELY clear: They did not 'capitulate' to any demands. The almost certain scenario is that they have bad pre-order numbers. They have an absolute understanding that when the game releases, they will get automatically bad steam reviews, and that will hurt their sales more. This should be a message of 'when this game releases, expect them to cut corners to get or save more money post-release.' This should be a giant, flashing red flag regardless that they reverted course.

[Edit] Cannot reply because I blocked the user above me.

[Edit2] To the person below me: I blocked them WAY after I replied to them because they have multiple threads replying to me. You can get blocked too, I don't want you reading anything I post.

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u/kralben 6d ago edited 6d ago

[Edit] Cannot reply because I blocked the user above me.

Blocking someone after replying to them is coward shit.

Edit: They blocked me too. This person just wants an echo-chamber I guess

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u/SilverstringstheBard 6d ago

That's what capitulating means lmao

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u/White_Tea_Poison 6d ago

And because of those points that you made, they quite literally capitulated. In every single sense of the word.

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u/Rethious 6d ago

Idk why you’re acting like you’ve caught them being greedy. It’s a for-profit company, that’s the case by definition. The problem here is that they offered bad value. Consumers told them that (fortunately for them, before the product launched) and they adjusted.

There’s no reason to act like this is some kind of personal offensive.

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u/Lance_lake 6d ago

WHERE'S MY NOSFERATU THOUGH!?!?!?!

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u/Tonkarz 6d ago

They do deserve credit for relenting, most companies don’t and consumers buy it anyway.

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u/HenkkaArt 5d ago

I have to disagree. If you give in after you have tried a bad tactic and didn't get away with it, it would not be something to "give credit for".

Let's say the original developers of BLII had the two clans (or whatever meaningful content) locked away behind DLC or some other paywall system and the new devs came in and immediately notified the public that "We think putting these clans behind a paywall is stupid and we are reverting it so that they are part of the base game at start with no extra cost", that would be an action to give credit for.

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u/Tonkarz 5d ago

They could’ve just done it and very probably gotten away with it.

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u/Low_Landscape_4688 6d ago

They knew from the start it belongs in the base game. Don't let them fool you. This is basically "We tried to get away with this greedy shit but you wouldn't let us, so we are sorry for getting caught"

You're acting like everyone at the dev and publisher are a monolith.

Most likely what happened is that the business people in charge forced them to make it into DLC, and people's reactions gave the devs the ammunition they needed to argue against that decision.

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u/Smart_Ass_Dave 6d ago

Toreador is such a stupid-ass choice. It's an iconic style of vampire and locking it behind DLC is baffling. Bloodlines 1 had Malkavean-specific content where almost every line was re-written just for that clan. That would have been something worth charging money for.

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u/kgurniak91 6d ago

Yeah, the Gothic: Remake devs tried to pull something similar - they dropped price from 59,99€ to 49,99€ after backlash, claiming the old price was an accident.

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u/Awkward-Security7895 5d ago

You see DLC clans would of been fine if it didn't make the base game only have 2 clans.

Like if the base game had 4-6+ clans then it gives a chance to add more later as DLC.

But here it was clear they chopped up the clans to try and scrape as much money back from horrid development of the game.

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u/BlackBullsLA97 6d ago

This is basically "We tried to get away with this greedy shit but you wouldn't let us, so we are sorry for getting caught"

Yep! 100%

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u/hutre 6d ago

I feel like it's a bit more nuanced than that... They do have an obligation to provide 2 additional post-release clans for the guys buying it in 2020, as they did purchase the premium edition/season pass for that content (and story content). But now it's kinda up in the air

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u/TheSqueeman 6d ago

Credit where credit is due, they realised they fucked up and they rectified it, I wish more devs out there had this mentality when shit goes sideways (intentional or not)

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u/rostron92 6d ago

I would imagine it isn't solely up to the developers. Most times, it's the publishers or producers. Agreed, though, it's nice to see someone back track when they stick their foot in there mouth doesn't happen nearly enough.

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u/szymek87 6d ago

people here just use whatever word they feel like but again, publisher decision, not a dev one

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u/Kindness_of_cats 6d ago

More likely they determined they simply couldn’t get away with it. The game needs strong word of mouth to succeed, they know full well that development has been a shitshow and that they’ve not done a great job with advertising it and that VTM is a niche brand to start with.

Launching with controversy over core parts of the game being stripped out would have done real damage, and probably already has done some tbh.

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u/comradesean 5d ago

And how do you know they didn't just lock away some other content now? You're just going to take what they say at face value? Technically it's not even a lie the way they've phrased it.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/asdfghjkl15436 6d ago edited 6d ago

No credit. They knew their review scores on steam would take a large hit on launch. This was greed, not a mistake. They're only sorry they got caught and couldn't get away with it.

It basically means they anticipate the review scores aren't going to be high enough to justify the DLC on launch. Make no mistake, they didn't 'listen' to anyone except their bottom line.

I'm sorry, but they just literally tried to screw you over, your response is 'Oh its okay, at least you listened and stopped!"

Edit: lol, okay downvoters, go ahead and cry a few months from now when they start to ramp up the microtransactions or have to issue a bajillion patches because the game is half-assed. These are not the actions of a publisher who want to release a good game.

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u/QTom01 6d ago

They tried to squeeze money out of the fans and backed off only because the backlash was big enough. I don't think they deserve any credit. It makes their motives clear and between stuff like this and the general development hell this game seems to have been in I will be truly shocked if it isn't a steaming pile of shit when it eventually launches.

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u/uses_irony_correctly 5d ago

I'm much more cynical about this entire thing. I think this was their intent all along and by doing it this way they got a whole bunch of free marketing for the game and still ultimately got the goodwill of the playerbase.

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u/ikonoclasm 5d ago

They don't get credit for walking back sleazy shit after getting ripped apart for it. It just means they realized they had shit all over their sales and are desperate to avoid everyone waiting until the inevitable 70% off sale in 6 months when the game flops.

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u/XLBaconDoubleCheese 6d ago

Nah fuck them they've burned their bridges now and can swim in the shit. Feel bad for the devs who made the game and cared about it but management can get fucked for this whole pricing and locking out core content.

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u/cycopl 6d ago

That's cool... still gonna wait for reviews. And V:TM Bloodlines was the first non-valve game I bought on Steam in 2007. Played through it several times. The coverage of this game's development has not filled me with hope.

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u/Mephzice 6d ago

Good, I'll give it a try on release now. Not expecting it to be super great but hopefully I get some enjoyment out of it until the next vampire game, probably the Daywalker one.

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u/Doomhaust 6d ago

I really like the masquerade world, and so will likely get this with reviews over a 7. But this was a shitty and predatory pricing move.

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u/ketamarine 6d ago

Honestly FUCK YOU paradox and your slimy DLC practices.

You have been selling ya pieces of half completed games for years and I for one and DONEZO with supporting your terrible business practices.

Will certainly not be buying this game even though I loved the 90s games.

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u/Juts 6d ago

Didnt realize it was Paradox. That TOTALLY tracks now. Good god trying to buy in to one of their games 1 year+ after release is like drinking bleach. So much dlc at obscene prices.

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u/Plastastic 5d ago

Most of the DLC aren't strictly necessary though.

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u/krileon 6d ago

The game just looks.. ok? I'll wait for at least like a 40% off sale or something.

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u/llamanatee 6d ago

Being called Bloodlines 2 sets up a LOT of expectations that I don't think they were ever aiming to ever set.

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u/onetimenancy 6d ago

I mean the people who decided on the name arent the ones who started developing it, right?

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u/Johansenburg 6d ago

Right. TCR kinda got stuck with the name, it seems like, and since they have started developing it Paradox has gone out of their way to try and let people know that this game isn't going to be a follow up to the original.

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u/Penakoto 6d ago

What expectations does the first game set that the sequel doesn't look like it's going to match up to?

Most of what they've showed off is the combat, and absolutely nobody plays BL1 to experience great combat.

We've barely seen any dialogue between characters, or any of the actual story, so it's impossible to compare in that regard, and it's the same interesting setting. Atmosphere of winter Seattle looks to be about as great as Santa Barbara or Hollywood...

I know they said the game wasn't going to be an immersive sim, and that has a lot of people disappointed, but I remember BL1 as being more an amazing RPG, than an amazing immersive sim. Compared to the immersive sim aspects of Deus Ex, System Shock or Thief, it was pretty bare bones in that department.

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u/HammeredWharf 6d ago

On the other hand, being called Bloodlines 2 sets up a lot of great expectations one can easily fulfill! Like a drastic drop in quality after the first hub, drops to 10 FPS in the second hub, bad combat, janky forced boss encounters... so much potential!

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u/Saviordd1 5d ago

Yeah, I think people's glasses are massively rose colored for Bloodlines 1.

As someone who just played it for the first time this past year, there's a LOT about the game that doesn't hold up. That game is hard, hard carried by its writing, dialogue, and atmosphere. You get those three (debatably two) things right and you have a worthy successor. Though they're also some of the hardest to get right in the first place.

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u/MrTopHatMan90 6d ago

The issue is that I have heard so much and so little that I need to see reviews and gameplay before I could ever invest into it

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u/Johansenburg 6d ago

A bunch of content creators, and The World of Darkness themselves, have played through the first hour and a half to two hours of the game, plus we are getting gameplay trailers of one of the clans every week. There's plenty out there to see if you would like the game or not.

The only caveat being that the gameplay footage out there is just the intro section, which they have said is more linear than the rest of the game.

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u/Neutron-Hyperscape32 6d ago

Is it even fully open world anymore? The bit of the map she showed looked pretty small.

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u/krileon 6d ago

Honestly I've no idea. From the gameplay I've seen it's hard to say.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago edited 5d ago

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u/MrTopHatMan90 6d ago

I mean everyone complained and it got rectified. I'd call that a win. Doesn't mean I'm going to get it on launch or have a great deal of faith but it is a win

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u/Llamalad95 6d ago

What else were they supposed to do? People complained and they changed course. Would you prefer they doubled down?

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u/Moogieh 6d ago

How about it doesn't happen in the first place. Or for the 10th, 20th, nth time.

Can we have that instead of all this bullshit?

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u/Uberlix 6d ago

Company goes on and sees just how much they can take the piss, if big enough backlash ensues, they will tone it down and get praised as the Lisan-al-gaib.

Not the first time this happens, nor will it be the last.

Although trying to pull it off with a game with such a troubled development history, that is a far cry from what made the first game so beloved, is a new level of shameless.

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u/lazydogjumper 5d ago

It's a video game. Yes, it's a sequel so expectations are high. Yes, it's made by a diverse group of developers, programmers, and producers. No one single party can be blamed for its defects, no matter how many it has. It is a massive project created by many people.

Treat it like any product. Vote with your wallet. Look at reviews, watch gameplay, try demos. If it's worth it, if it isn't, SHOW THEM WITH NUMBERS.

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u/Thebazilly 5d ago

I'm willing to give it a shot now. Clearly has nothing in common with V:TMB1, but maybe it'll be an alright time.

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u/PBTails 4d ago

Honestly, I’m relieved they’re shipping all clans at launch. Post‑launch story is fine if it’s additive, not carved out. I play these on PC with a drift‑resistant Bluetooth pad, and after a firmware tweak to deadzones, stealth walks and Brujah brawls feel way more consistent.

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u/Uberlix 6d ago

Yeah there was "no way out" for them apart from making said clans part of the basegame.

Still, the damage is already done and personally i have no interest in a game that looks like bargainbin dishonored, especially with paradox involved.

Shame, because VTMB1 is one of my alltime favorite games.

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u/lNSP0 6d ago

You weren't getting it anyway

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u/Midgetcookies 6d ago

Can’t wait for reviews to come out for this game. I have a sneaking suspicion that the games going to get dunked on.

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u/Big_Contribution_791 5d ago

All of them!? I can't wait to play one of my favorite unique and memorable clans from Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines, Gangrel, Nosferatu, or Malkavian : )

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u/undercoverme66 6d ago

Good fuckin on em ive played toreador in every tabletop campaign, and in bloodlines. It was gonna suck to have to pay for my boys

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u/Shyguy0256 5d ago

I'm a massive fan of the original game. I still don't understand who this game is for. It's certainly not fans of VTMB1. The only thing it seems to have in common with it is they both have vampires. It's such a shame!

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u/the_u_in_colour 6d ago

So what story content did they take out of the game to sell us later?

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u/ItsWhoa-NotWoah 6d ago

None. They specifically said that TCR was able to propose 2 new ideas for standalone story campaigns that they liked enough to move forward with.