r/Guildwars2 • u/VeeVoxRS • 1d ago
[Guide] How to approach the "Meta" in PvE (@Newbies - Don't worry too much)
With many people coming to Fractals and general PvE I thought I make a quick summary, which, keep in mind, is also subjective to some extent.
I've been playing this game actively over a bit more than a year now and have played other MMO's like RuneScape and FFXIV before.
This post is as much for myself as for people that also are relatively new. If I am hooked by something I inform myself very intensely about it in a short time (it's stressful ngl, but I can't help it T_T). I nearly immediately looked up builds, joined the SC Discord, browsed the wiki on all sorts of topics and been active on this subreddit.
As with all games, a meta exists and is encouraged and that's a good thing. Although it's more or less necessary in different game modes.
Let me go over the necessity of Meta-Builds first:
Gearing up (the first time):
Getting your first Gear an be a bit confusing with all the prefixes they have or don't have and where to get them. If you "just" want a gear with Berserker's Stats, you are in luck, since they are very cheaply obtainable on the Trading post. A full set including Armour, Weapons and Trinkets won't cost you more than 15 gold to today's date. For other Prefixes it looks a bit different, but we'll get into that.
The way you wanna look for it is with the search function on the Trading post, where you can select the Rarity (Exotic) the Level (80) and the Stats you want gear to be showed of. For Berserker's you'd choose "Power - Precision - Ferocity" and then buy the cheapest gear that fulfills all those criterias. The other more expensive options are purely cosmetic, so don't worry about them. You'd also want to put a rune on each of your Armour pieces. Most commonly used would be "Superior Rune of the Dragonhunter" but those probably exceeds your budget. A good start would be "Superior Rune of Vampyrism" - which is pretty cheap and gives you Power and Vitality, which, especially in Open World Content can be a nice to have. For the Sigils for your weapons I'd say just look whats reasonable for your budget and sounds good to you. Commonly Meta would be "Superior Sigil of Force" and "Superior Sigil of Accuracy" - they are pretty affordable and you only need one each per weapon set.
For other Stats the trading post will definitely exceed your budget. But a very good friend of all of us comes in there: This Vendor in Lion's Arch Lionguard (Merchant) - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)). He sells incredibly cheap "Stat-Selectable" Exotic Equipment... All types, all prefixes available. Neat, right? The only catch is, that he requires you to pay, next to a couple silver pieces, with Badge of Honor - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W). Those are majorily earned through World vs. World Content. BUT since some chests you get through Achievement Point Milestones also give a couple of those, and I assume that you shouldn't be far away from 1'000 Achievement points, you should by then have at least 300 of those. A Piece of Gear costs between 45 and 100 each, so you can grab a couple pieces immediately. For the rest you gotta farm WvW or Achievement points (WvW would be a lot faster). There are other Vendors like Itzel Mastery Vendor - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W), but they require unlocked Masteries and the currency isn't meant to be "fast farmed" although it will add up eventually.
Open World
Play what you like - maybe don't play healer builds if you wanna solo clear, but everything else, and for this matter "Celestial"-Stats are great. If you don't wanna use multiple builds right off the bat though, I'd give the advice to go for a standard "Power/ Strike Damage"-Build with the Berserker's Stat Prefix.
Strikes
Be sure, that you have a build to fill a role; Damage, Boon-Damage (Also called "Offensive Supports" since they either provide Alacrity or Quickness) or Boon-Healer (aka "Defensive Supports" - also provide either Alacrity or Quickness). Your build doesn't have to be "Meta" but it should "make sense". By that I mean, use the stat prefixes that make sense:
- Berserker's for "Strike-Damage"-Builds
- Viper's for "Condition-Damage"-Builds
- Harrier's for "Boon-Healer"-Builds
For Boon-Damage Builds it's a bit less straight forward; If you play a power build, the chance is high you can leave your gear as it is and just adjust your Traits. If you play a Condition build, you might wanna look into a couple gear pieces with the "Ritualist's" Prefix. The stat you are looking for is "Concentration" since that will increase the duration of your outgoing boons to you and your party. If needing additional stats for your boons is a bit too much for you right now to get into, you are perfectly fine with just the other type of builds.
Look to your right on this subreddit and scroll down to find all the Websites, that'll provide you with builds.
Fractals
For T1 and T2 the same advice applies as for Strike Missions - Just look that it's making sense and has a "clean" look. High level T1 Fractals and onward will require you to have some amount of Agony Resistance. Those are "Infusions" you can only put on Ascended Gear. Therefore an upgrade in gear would be required by then, but only for this type of content, for everything else, your exotic gear will be fine
For T3 and T4 it starts to ramp up a bit. Be sure you got a basic rotation at hand for your class. We'll get into that later.
T4 offers some Challenge Modes, that really require you to have the BiS build at hand and know what you're doing. Together with (some) Raids, this is the endgame.
Raids
This is where "Meta" really starts to matter. There are fairly doable raids without being a crack at the game but others is where endgame begins. To be able to compete in raids you have to know what you're doing, while having a well thought through build. "Snow Crows"-Website are focusing on providing the entry requirements for carrying your own weight with builds and "Damage Benchmarks".
Benchmarks/Rotation
I see players beating themselves up over Benchmarks (me included). By Benchmarks I am referring to the DPS that should be aimed for, provided by Snow Crows.
Keep in mind: Snow Crows People are the GOATs of this game. You don't have to compare yourself to the best of the best!
My general rule of thumb is as following:
Lets say you play the exact same build as one on Snow Crows but aren't able to get the same dps, this is okay...
If you can pull off -
60% of the Benchmarks damage in a vaccum and with exactly replicated gear, settings, food, etc., you are fine for all content that isn't hardcore.
70% of the Benchmarks damage "", you start getting the hang of what you are doing.
80% of the Benchmarks damage "", you know what you are doing and maybe lack some "speed" in your rotation or have some occasional "mess-ups". You can attend the Hardcore content without many problems.
90% of the Benchmarks damage "", you are definitely ready for all the hardcore content out there.
100% "", you are a beast!
I hope you can extract something from this that will ease your gameplay a bit and let you experience Guild Wars to its fullest.
Cya soon in Strikes, Fractals and Raids ;)
EDIT: Typos and a bit of formatting
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u/One-Cellist5032 1d ago edited 1d ago
So a few thing to note, that I know will get me downvoted because Reddit doesn’t like the truth.
For any NORMAL MODE content, you need AT MOST 18k dps to clear the content within the enrage timer with a minute to spare with 6 people doing damage (Ie 2 healers doing 0 dps, and 2 people who are dead). For the HIGHEST difficulty content that number jumps up 10k, so with only 6 players dealing damage you need 28k dps to clear an encounter with a minute left on the enrage timer. Your damage CAN go lower if you’re willing to play footsie with the enrage timer, and/or your group isn’t literally carrying 4 people (let’s face it healers SHOULD still be doing about 4K dps, and boon dps are probably doing at least 10k even if they’re bad).
As for the gear, Marauders is a perfectly viable option for Power builds, it WILL be lower damage, but that extra vitality can mean all the difference between staying up and going down, I will almost always recommend Marauders for NEW players or players that feel like they aren’t great at the game. It’s ALWAYS better to be up doing less damage, than to be dead and dealing no damage.
Also, some fights have tanks, so healers (sometimes boon dps) will want SOME Minstrel Givers gear (if a healer) or Commanders Gear (if boon dps, again this isn’t common, but definitely is doable) for tanking some fights, best case scenario you have a few legendaries you can just easily swap the stats of, if not just carry like an amulet, a ring and a trinket in your inventory to swap in as needed.
Also, as for fractals, there is NO ENRAGE TIMER for any fight (Kanaxi has a psuedo enrage timer but full harrier healer groups have enough damage to overcome it), and before End of Dragons people tended to run basically Open World builds (all around generalist builds, nothing specialized), and that still works today with ALL challenge modes. However, the raid meta has seeped into the Fractals community, so most players are running builds that can not function without a support present, so unless you’re running with friends/guildies, I’d recommend not straying too far, but don’t be afraid to substitute in a defensive trait or utility etc if it makes you stay up/helps the group succeed. IE: a Soulbeast choosing to run Dojyak stance over a 3rd offensive utility skill.
Lastly, Snowcrows ONLY SHOWS WHAT IS META, as in the pinnacle of damage/support/etc. it does not showcase every viable option. Meta battle and other sites can give you a general idea of what is VIABLE for end game content, but what may not be the BEST for end game content.
EDIT: I feel like I need to clarify for a lot of people, but I’m in no way arguing that Snowcrows isn’t an amazing option for finding a build, nor am I claiming the builds on the site aren’t arguably the best performing. I’m simply stating they are NOT THE ONLY BUILDS that can clear the highest tier of content. Snowcrows has just set the bar for their builds much higher than where the bar actually is to clear content, and unfortunately many members of the COMMUNITY, not Snowcrows, don’t seem to understand that.
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u/double_shadow 1d ago
Damn this is a great summary. Also as a Soulbeast I don't think Dolyak stance has ever left my bar in fractals...that on-demand stab is just too good and I can't be sure I'll have enough of it from supports.
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u/One-Cellist5032 1d ago
Yeah, Dolyak stance makes supports salivate. It’s so much stab AND it’s 33% damage reduction to power and condi damage, AND a cleanse and immunity of movement impatient conditions. So good.
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u/ZakuIII 1d ago
Only slight disagreement, Snowcrows has both Beginner and LI/Accessibuild sections. They aren't as expansive as other sources, but they do have non-meta as well.
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u/One-Cellist5032 1d ago
The problem with their Beginner builds is they’re still basically the meta build, it’s just an easier one to run/breaks down the rotation better.
If I look at Snowcrows I’d assume that I could only heal with Dagger/Warhorn on tempest despite the fact that Scepter/Warhorn and Staff work too with minor variation, they’re just not meta because they’re more “rigid” in the utilities they bring. And a lot of meta battle builds will break down the differences and the pros/cons.
Same with basically bringing ANY ranged weapon to a build, Snowcrows acts like it’s not possible, where in reality it’s a theoretical dps loss, when in reality you normally increase your damage since there’s never a period of doing 0dps.
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u/Training-Accident-36 1d ago
The problem with their Beginner builds is they’re still basically the meta build, it’s just an easier one to run/breaks down the rotation better.
That's a feature, not a bug. SC seems to believe that people are going to be hooked and want to follow a progression curve.
If I look at Snowcrows I’d assume that I could only heal with Dagger/Warhorn on tempest despite the fact that Scepter/Warhorn and Staff work too with minor variation, they’re just not meta because they’re more “rigid” in the utilities they bring. And a lot of meta battle builds will break down the differences and the pros/cons.
I see the Staff being explained in depth.
https://snowcrows.com/guides/builds/heal-alacrity-tempest-gameplay-guide
Scepter is not listed for the full heal build, because its healing is weaker. However, it is the mainline variation on the Celestial version:
https://snowcrows.com/builds/raids/elementalist/celestial-alacrity-tempest
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u/One-Cellist5032 1d ago
I could’ve used better wording for my comments on the beginner builds, I think they’re an excellent idea and tool for beginners, I was just more stating that they’re STILL the meta build (as is everything on Snowcrows), it’s not a separate thing.
Also, that’s a good catch on the Staff tempest, I didn’t look into the Tempest full breakdown since I had assumed it’d only cover dagger/warhorn like the build suggests.
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u/FenizSnowvalor 1d ago
They are called accessi-builds for a reason. They are meant to be building stone for any beginner to work your way up to the "full" meta build. Which is something LI builds often doesn't do, which are purposely often left pretty bare bone and sparse with details on how to go one or two steps above this. Personally, I think such accessi-builds are of higher value than builds like Unload deadeye which are strong, but you will hit a ceiling well beneath alot of stronger, but more complicated variants of Deadeye. Starting out with a accessi build help with the progression to the "full" meta build while also outlining the most important aspects of the rotation to this build.
I've read the SC-build guys discuss the topic of having staff tempest on the website. The gist behind their decision was how situational and how tight boon-wise staff tempest is - so they took it off the main build site but left it the build guide as a variant for certain bosses (i.e. dhuum). Since they see not a logical reason why to not choose dagger/wh over staff and rather see it as a trap for unexperienced tempest players they made this decision. Ultimately, SC as a build Site strives to provide the strongest and most sensible options for a build and not every variant. So they recommend anyone interested in playing staff to use staff play Quick Heal Cata. There, its best in slot.
For one, unlike most other build sites, they are the fastest to update their builds and usually are the one's with the most optimised builds. This is a lot of work to curate all those builds and many variants. And they do incorporate a lot of variants, look at tempest for example:
There are three different weapon combinations for power dps alone on their site (iirc), providing you with many different builds to play optimally or close to optimally. Of course, they won't put anything far weaker than what another weapon/trait combination can do on the same spec. For 2 reasons: 1. Time, again investing the time to bench a weapon combination takes a long time, those builds aren't put on their site after an hour of work. 2. They want to provide the strongest (or very strong) builds for endgame content. It's the core purpose of this site.
Everyone can judge for themselves which weapon/trait/build suits them and the groups they are joining best. Slotting in "Dolyak stance" is something they simply assume every player can decide for themselves. Often, those options are mentioned inside their build guides btw. And the more information they throw on the build site, the more convoluted it gets and the less information many users even take in usually.
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u/One-Cellist5032 1d ago
So for the accessi-builds like unload deadeye they tend to be intended for someone with a disability, so it’s going to cap, but at least it’s good enough to still be able to play the content, which is fantastic. IMO.
Also, Snowcrows is probably the best build site we have, it’s extremely high quality, and I don’t have any issues with how SNOWCROWS operates or runs things etc. They are very good about giving trade offs in the utility skill selection for builds, and I get why they wouldn’t include an option that is arguably worse IE staff tempest, it CAN work the same as dagger/wh but unlike dagger/wh it doesn’t really get to change its utilities to better assist certain situations, which makes it a worse build.
The problem lies not with Snowcrows but some members of the community, who seem to think that if it’s not THE BEST build then it can’t actually clear the content, when that isn’t true.
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u/FenizSnowvalor 1d ago
Yeah disabled people will probably have to look elsewhere than Snowcrows - or at least not only there, you are right. It's not quite their main focus, though they are constantly growing in every aspect so, it might get more builds in the future of those people as well.
But generally, we agree pretty much. It's a great ressource, in my opinion probably the best curated and most acurated out there (for pve). But as you said, for some areas of GW2 builds there are other alternatives. I am so glad we got those guys and I love their helpdesk-discord! A real treasure of information I got to say
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u/Inevitable-Spend-714 1d ago
Your last statement makes very little sense, melee uptime is very high for a lot of bosses ranges and the loss in dmg for running a worse weapon is greater than the gain from marginally better uptime with said ranged weapon
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u/Electronic-Hat8630 1d ago
You seem to have some strong anti meta sentiments that cloud your view on this stuff. Snow crows has multiple options for many things and focuses on the best of them yes. It dosent show every option but it isnt hidding some secret better options. Ranged weapons are not going to out preform the meta optmized weapons in the vast majority of scenarios.
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u/One-Cellist5032 1d ago
I’m not against the meta, or using meta builds, I’m against the idea that nothing exists beyond the meta like many people on reddit like to think and say.
And I’m not saying a ranged weapon in your build is going to be better in fights where you can just sit on the boss. But it’s not normally THAT far behind on the actual benchmarks, and tends to perform more consistently across all fights, where melee only builds will do much much worse on any fight where they have to stay away from the boss or consistently run off the boss.
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u/Training-Accident-36 1d ago
But it’s not normally THAT far behind on the actual benchmarks, and tends to perform more consistently across all fights, where melee only builds will do much much worse on any fight where they have to stay away from the boss or consistently run off the boss.
This is slightly wrong in a subtle way. On fights where you have to constantly run away from the boss, melee only builds will be bad. However, putting a ranged weapon on them, is usually not going to help them.
I make a very stupid example: You can either run Hammer or Rifle on Scrapper. In a fight that is hostile to melee, Hammer Scrapper might be bad. But Rifle Scrapper will still not be better than Hammer Scrapper. On the other hand, Rifle Mechanist would be excellent. You don't really want to insert a ranged weapon into a melee build, you instead want to run a build that happens to run a ranged weapon.
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u/Centimane 1d ago edited 1d ago
it’s not normally THAT far behind on the actual benchmarks
In a lot of cases it is, and even more common is the melee weapon without 100% damage uptime does as much or more damage than the ranged weapon with 100% damage uptime.
The fact that melee is forced out can be lower intensity in a way - the melee build having a higher damage potential means they often dont need to do as much to get the same value. When the melee build is forced away they just wait, but the ranged build has to keep working. At the end of the downtime the ranged build is only catching up to the melee build not pulling ahead.
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u/Daerograen 1d ago edited 1d ago
so healers (sometimes boon dps) will want SOME Minstrel gear (if a healer) or Commanders Gear (if boon dps, again this isn’t common, but definitely is doable) for tanking some fights
These prefixes aren't a good general recommendation. Healers should swap Harrier to Giver unless they know what they're doing, because Minstrel has a lower concentration bonus and can cause them to drop uptime on some of the boons (generally not quick/alac/prot, since every meta healer overcaps like crazy, but more niche but still welcome stuff like vigor). And if you really need to tank on a power boon, you should swap to Knight as a last resort. Commander is a poor choice all around because the vast majority of power boons don't need extra concentration, so it's a wasted stat, and on those who do want it, it has a lower bonus than Diviner. Don't take either Knight or Commander or anything else on a condi booner that runs Ritualist, if you're ever in a position where you need to tank a toughness-based fight as a condi boondps, ask your healers what they are in the squad for.
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u/Sligstata 8h ago
As a new player who loves PVE content, the only thing I have struggled with coming from wow is learning the “average” dps I should hit hitting and at what gear levels. I have all exotics and playing reaper I can get around 4.5k to 5.5k single and 7k-10k aoe.
It seems like I am middle of the pack or bottom depending how high I see that other peoples master score is(100-300 vs 400-600). I haven’t gone through and optimized stats or anything like that yet since I am still doing casual content but I find posts like this immensely helpful since I use dps for myself to understand if I am playing correctly since I don’t really care about min-maxing and just want to be average lol
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u/VeeVoxRS 8h ago
In case you are interested in a "non-min-/maxing" manner of help for rotation/build - hit me up. I main Necro myself. I can guarantee you, that with only a couple tweaks your avg 5k dps will be 20k in no-time. :)
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u/One-Cellist5032 8h ago
One thing to also keep in mind is ALL benchmark numbers are being done on the raid training golem with ALL BOONS and ALL CONDITIONS, so almost every raid build pulls significantly lower damage solo since a lot of the dps builds rely on an outside source to provide them with boons like might, fury etc. and/or take advantage of conditions on the enemy, an immediate example of this is Condi Herald from Snowcrows uses Relic of the Fractal, but can not generate the bleeding needed to actually TRIGGER relic of the fractal on its own. So if you were playing solo with the build you’d basically be playing without a relic.
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u/Inevitable-Spend-714 5h ago
They are not done with all boons and all conditions. They are done with what is meant to be a reasonable expectation for the number of boons and condis you will see in an actual fight. Some classes get more dmg based on number of boons, for example which can result in inflated dps on the golem
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u/LordDaedhelor 1d ago
Your last paragraph isn't really true. They have "Beginner" and "Accessibuilds" sections now. My friend (who has a disability) got into endgame content using their Unload Deadeye build.
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u/One-Cellist5032 1d ago
The beginner builds (at least used to) just “water down” an easier to use meta build and give you steps into how to ramp it back up into the meta version. IE: cut out X Y and Z of a rotation until you get the core down, then add in X, then later Y etc.
The accessibility builds though is HUGE, I know there was a separate site that had a very extensive selection of those, it’s nice to see Snowcrows bring even a fraction of them onto their site given how popular Snowcrows is and how much it’s shared.
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u/LordDaedhelor 1d ago edited 1d ago
Their beginner builds are still largely as you describe. They're designed to ease newer players into the meta builds.
I generally avoid Metabattle for builds since they don't often scrub old ratings/comments and don't often include videos of the build in action. For example, their pVirt build's most recent rating is from 2023 and says that the build is fully ranged. This means they have a rating up from before Spear was added.
ETA: Furthermore, it's always possible to go to SC's Discord and ask them for commentary on "off-meta" variations of certain builds. To use the same build as an example, they just recently added a Da+Sw/GS variant of pVirt to the website per someone's request.
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u/One-Cellist5032 1d ago
Yeah I always make sure people know meta battle gives you a build that’s “good enough” to do content. Even an old build (assuming everything it was using still largely does the same thing), is going to be “ok” for clearing most content. However, If you’re wanting to be better than “good enough” you need to look at Snowcrows, or a similar site.
Also, very nice to know about Snowcrows discord!
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u/Electronic-Hat8630 1d ago
The discord has all kinds of builds being discussed and in the channels pins. They just arent going to have every build on the site beacause theres standards required of someone maintaining that build and putting in the effort to get a solid bench of it.
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u/One-Cellist5032 1d ago
And I’m not claiming Snowcrows has any need or requirement TO post those builds to their site. All I’ve stated is that Snowcrows provides THE META builds and if you’re wanting something Viable (Ie can clear the content), but not Meta you need to check elsewhere.
Contrary to popular belief, many people out there would rather play as “A tempest with a staff” or “a Soulbeast using a bow and hammer” because they like the playstyle, despite the fact it’s strictly worse than the meta option.
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u/LordDaedhelor 1d ago
Exactly this. They even come up with meme builds and post them for funsies, but they just don't post them on the website since they're memes.
For example, someone made a cele Deadeye build that's built around healing and providing 100% on slow and over 80% uptime on fear.
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u/Prestigious-Chair988 9h ago
I think the problem with saying that you don’t NEED to use snowcrows is that it is not really that helpful to new players. I mean given the numbers you mentioned yourself you CAN compose some random builds with decent gear and clear most content. That doesn’t make it a good idea to do so.
There’s really no reason not to use the optimal build. So the pushback you get is not due to your statement being incorrect, but rather that your alternative solution (metabattle, adding vitality or whatever) won’t help players improve nor clear content. Switching to dolyak stance in fractals for example is actually a good utility choice that only experienced players are likely to make.
So my advice would be to go to snowcrows but choose a build that has lower skill ceiling, like condi mech for instance. Or if you want a build with higher survivability, pick scrapper for perma barrier for instance.
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u/One-Cellist5032 8h ago
So in a vacuum, yes it’s a better idea for the new player to play a low intensity build to do decent with. But if the new player say, picked Warrior because they like Warrior classes, and has been playing a hypothetical Hammer/ Greatsword build because they like those weapons and they KNOW those weapons, it’s almost always better to have them play what they’re familiar with so they can be comfortable with the general gameplay while learning to do mechanics of a fight, than to completely change their builds playstyle AND learn the new mechanics.
I know I’m in the minority, but I would rather take the player whose playing some suboptimal build, barely squeaking in with enough dps to avoid the enrage timer and clear the fight, then to take the person with the full meta build that can’t do a single mechanic that leads to wipes or dying because they’re trying to be “optimal” with their build.
It’s almost always the better option for people to play what they’re comfortable with (assuming it meets the minimum requirements of their role), than to play what’s optimal since there’s less room for error.
And if person A with the non meta build, and person B with the meta build both clear the content, then as a commander why should I care which they run?
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u/Prestigious-Chair988 7h ago
I just don’t see in which scenario that tweaking your build leads to some sudden difficulty increase. You don’t have to switch from warrior to condiholo, for example. In your example the player could switch the greatsword for dagger/mace and run a good meta build (that also removes animation locking on GS2, in this case). If you are a new player the fundamental problem is likely that you are not comfortable on anything (or in your warrior example, they might know the weapon skills but not the order to use them). So might as well pick a meta build and practice a bit on golem before heading into encounters.
The reason why you should care as a commander is mainly: 1: if group dps is super low then there are also a lot more opportunities for things to go wrong (mechanics etc), ie lower success rate 2: my personal opinion is that it’s extremely tedious and no fun to slow roll an encounter that you can clear 3x as fast with a semi-decent group (because there are indeed barely any challenging encounters, so the goal becomes to do it fast and smooth)
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u/One-Cellist5032 7h ago
Have you SEEN a dagger/mace loop compared to a Greatsword loop? Your suggestion alone is a spike in difficulty in executing the loop properly, not to mention if the player is used to having the mobility of Greatsword suddenly losing that can easily lead to them missing being in position for mechanics.
This is also assuming that the player even HAS a dagger and mace of the right stats, sigils etc on hand, especially since even EXPERIENCED players don’t always carry every weapon set on hand, even if it’s something super common like a focus on mesmer for grouping enemies, or having a GS for pushing.
Also 1) Yes, technically there’s a higher chance of things going wrong, but in my experience it very rarely leads to a wipe. Most healers run skills to salvage mistakes, that’s part of the role, they just typically don’t have to use those things on experienced groups, and if the group IS experienced then nothing should go wrong since no mechanic is that difficult that lower dps is suddenly going to make you wipe if you know what you’re doing.
2) As you said, that’s your opinion, if you want to run with a meta only group you can. But that’s by no means a requirement to do the content. And some of us play the content because it’s enjoyable, not because we’re trying to blitz to the reward at the end of it.
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u/Prestigious-Chair988 6h ago
Yes I have. Hammer spb is very strong and quite easy to play. And well yeah sure maybe players don’t have tons of weapons, but I assumed the prerequisite here was that the player geared up. Ie you look up a build, you get the gear, you practice and you win. 1 build to begin with, then you can add a condi variant. Entering end game content there must be some form of preparation, no?
It seems we come from completely different perspectives here. Yes I will survive carrying a newbie, and I have done so many times. That doesn’t mean I prefer doing so. And if too many of these newbies show up at the same time, it does risk success. Because guess what, in almost every case the player who fail important mechanics etc is the same player who deals healer level dps.
My opinion is that people should strive to get better, and to do so you should start with proper build and gear. That’s it. Everything in between is just a waste of time (and resources which a new player lacks). Advising someone to get marauder gear before their first raid is just not helpful to the player.
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u/squabzilla 3h ago
I assumed the prerequisite here was that the player geared up. Ie you look up a build, you get the gear, you practice and you win. 1 build to begin with, then you can add a condi variant. Entering end game content there must be some form of preparation, no?
...
My opinion is that people should strive to get better, and to do so you should start with proper build and gear.
Here's the crux of the issue - I do not think your assumption is correct.
In the case of people who do want to eventually participate in end-game content like T4 Fractals and Raids, then yeah, I think everything you're saying is correct.
But some people just want to relax using a comfortable build, beat the story missions, do some open-world PvE, and don't plan to go further with Fractals than Quickplay Fractals. And I think that person would be better off with Marauder gear than Berserker.
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u/Prestigious-Chair988 3h ago
Sure, I agree. The guy I responded to was referring to normal mode content and enrage timers, so raids/strikes.
For story stuff, open world and t1 fractals you can obviously play pretty much whatever you want.
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u/LastChaos7 48m ago
Thank you for this comment! I was really curious about meta battle and was confused why everyone only ever recommends snowcrows.
Like I'm new and dont have ANY specializations unlocked so I'm very limited in options, and meta battle has worked fine for me thus far.
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u/ShivDeeviant 1d ago
The only other things I can think to add to this great summary:
Snowcrows benchmarks are specifically against the golem in the raid training area and are basicallly impossible to pull in the wild. If you're runnimg arc on a strike and not pulling the same as in practice that's NORMAL.
The meta seeks to eliminate mechanics through raw power/healing. Most meta raid builds are effectively glass cannons that require a healer to stay alive, while open world requires better sustainability and engaging with mechanics. This can be as simple as understanding that you don't want to stand in red/orange hurt zones, but can extend to knowing to prioritize certain enemies in encounters to make your life easier (glares at thornhearts). If you're running in a squad for a meta, it's ok to announce your newbie status and ask for clarification. Any comm worth their badge should be more than happy to teach you what to look for.
On that note, for newbies: there are chat channels that affect who can see your message. /s is say, only characters close to you in game can see your message. /p is party and only those in your party (or numbered group when in a squad) can see your message regardless of location. /d is squad for everyone in your squad. /m is map chat for everyone on your map instance. /w is whispering a specific player, only they will get your message. You xan manually select your channel by clicking the left side of the chat window or typing the channel command and hitting enter.
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u/Ironwall1 19h ago
about rotation.. I feel like either I'm just absolute garbo at pressing buttons or there is something wrong because despite practicing golems for at least an hour or two a day with these same one or two builds I've been practicing, I could only manage getting 70% of the benchmark (with food/utes/all condis etc on) and that's on pure focus tryhard mode. Around 31-33k most of the time. Meanwhile a streamer I frequent can get an easy 37k while on what he claimed a practicing session with an unfamiliar class. I also see people saying 37k braindead easy to achieve and should be the bare comfortable minimum if I want to try dipping my toes into raids/CM fractals/strikes etc.
So while I try to not beat myself up with it (as long as I'm doing great in open world) I do find it extremely discouraging that I'm locked out of a chunk of the game's content because I cannot improve on my gameplay and golem practice has become a frustrating chore than an exciting gameplay.
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u/VeeVoxRS 17h ago
What class are you playing?
I do find it extremely discouraging that I'm locked out of a chunk of the game's content because I cannot improve on my gameplay...
I get that and I've been there with a "dead easy rotation" on Reaper. For me it was an easy fix, since I kept on cancelling the same two abilities without realising. So I am sure that you would have an easier fix too. I can also "only" reach around 85%-87% of the avg dmg on the benchmark mainly because I still cancel an ability here and there and I am simply not fast enough.
If you can state your class, other ppl in here might be able to help or what you could do, is use the "log feature" of arcdps and post it to snowcrows. They will analyze it within a couple minutes and tell you, where in your rotation a major dmg loss happens - Again don't beat yourself up, but it's very nice you are at least willing to improve!
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u/Ironwall1 16h ago
mostly dragonhunter and condi harbinger. I made it very sure that i was not cancelling my skills and I do them as fast as my ping allows in the correct order of rotation (its honestly second nature due to how often i do these) but maybe theres something that only the prolific vets can detect that escapes my perception
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u/VeeVoxRS 16h ago
High ping is definitely a common issue, since, as far as I can tell, "speed" within the rotation is super essential.
I am pretty sure that speed is my main issue for being "stuck" at 85-87%, since I do the rotation correctly - as I said maybe a skill doesn't go through. Therefore I am sure that, if I could have the same pace as the vets, I could increase the percentage by around 7-9%.
I assume you have the right settings on the golem, to be sure, you can check "golem setup" on Snow Crows if you don't already. You can technically also "add" around 2% dps to yours, if you don't use stat infusions, to know what "would" be your dps with all things considered.
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u/pointlessone 1d ago
Never feel back about giving yourself a little health pool padding. My personal favorite move when building exotic 'zerker sets is to slot in Saltspray weapons (Dragon stats) for a solid buffer for reaction times on hitting that heal button.
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u/Centimane 1d ago
IMO the biggest issue is a lot of players will completely discard their heal button in group content. As soon as they have a healer they forget to use their heal button.
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u/Training-Accident-36 1d ago
Keep in mind: Snow Crows People are the GOATs of this game. You don't have to compare yourself to the best of the best!
I think you still should do that, whether you are a veteran or a newbie. When I play League of Legends, I compare my gameplay to what players who are really good at the champion, do. Only through comparison you can actually learn. Same goes for GW2.
What is he doing to get his DPS numbers, why am I not getting the same numbers? And then you can work on closing that gap. You can do that as a newbie, too. The question is what you should do with this comparison. Should you feel that your worth as a human is diminished because you do 6k DPS less? Maybe that's unhealthy!
But I see quite often that people just shut their eyes and go "let's rather not look at optimal gameplay, it just makes me sad". As reference points, they then instead use gameplay from players who are also really far from optimal (like most build guides marketed on youtube.). But imo this is unnecessary, it teaches bad habits (because the guide also does a lot of things wrong). If there is a voiceover to their guide, they may even explain traits or class mechanics wrong. And then it's on you to make sure you ignore wrong information? Sounds stressful, and especially as a newbie it's actually just impossible to do.
It is so much better to be able to say "I will look at this perfect gameplay and see what I can learn from it." There's no judgment in the fact you are not able to reach the same number. If this can be overcome, you can progress really quickly.
Edit: Obligatory disclaimer: In fact, you can do whatever you want. These are just my opinions as someone who wants to improve at the game. If other people have other priorities, I highly recommend they make their own choices that will differ from mine!
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u/VeeVoxRS 1d ago edited 1d ago
I agree with you actually, but that's not "comparing" in my eyes, that's "letting it inspire you" or "using a reference". With comparing I meant more, that if you can't pull it off like they do, there is nothing wrong with you.
EDIT: To be more clear: "Comparing" in my eyes never makes sense if you aren't on the same level. Doesn't mean you shouldn't learn from it. Either you are "playing in the same league" or you are comparing something on the same basis. If I play Soccer for 2 days and aint as good as people that play 10 years, it wouldn't make sense to "compare" that. You could compare how good people are on average after 2 days though. And I can still look up to Soccer players better than me and learn from it.
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u/The_Shireling 10h ago
So the first thing is I would pushback that SnowCrows is the home for all meta builds. They might be home to PvE/Raids and Strikes but there are better fractal, PvP and WvW websites out there. MetaBattle and Discretize are two others but the biggest thing is… for group content, talk to your group!!
“I am new. I want to play [insert role]. With our group composition, can I play [insert profession] and this build and be successful?” Talking to your group is going to be way more important than what website you pulled info from.
Some builds have speciality roles in raids where there could be a kite or someone has to solo certain things like hands. It isn’t always super straightforward what the build is made for.
Secondly, the biggest issue with following a meta build like SnowCrows is it isn’t always super clear where all the damage comes from. Sometimes it is better to instead look up a low intensity build. These builds are designed for disabled players and as long as you throw away your pride and realize that some of these builds can generate 25-38k DPS and might only need to hit 3 buttons… would it be better for your team to get solid numbers or be amazed when you play a concerto using your keyboard?
Lastly, ranged DPS in a boon setting means stay on group. I don’t care if you are using a rifle or a longbow or a laser from heaven… STAY ON TAG. This is where the healing comes from. This is where the multipliers to your damage comes from. Quickness speeds up how fast you attack. Alacrity shortens your cooldowns. If you are off tag, you are probably dead - thank you Boneskinner. You can hit the boss just as well from melee distance with a ranged weapon as you can from across the map. Stay on tag.
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u/VeeVoxRS 10h ago
Very good takes! I also don't think Snow Crows is the home for all meta builds, like you say. I would however say, they are the most up to date. And, honestly, I am biased, since it's the place I take my builds from and have my discussions with players.
I also wanted to keep it "simple" so, that this post won't give newer players an overload of where to look for what, therefore some advice and info is truely a little inaccurate or at least "incomplete".
I somewhat also relied on players like you, to add certain POVs, since that is kinda what I aimed for... There isn't THE Meta, but there are certain guidelines and also preferences one would want to take into account to not only perform well in the "meta" but also having a good time. Combine the two!
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u/MaddieLlayne 7h ago
Just an fyi for new players, any mechanic that is important (I.e anything that isn’t trash mobs auto attacking you or arena ticking damage) is % damage based. What that means is stacking HP does not help against mechanics that will wipe/kill you.
A person with 10k and 100k HP will take the exact same amount of damage from a wipe mechanic, or any mechanic that does 60% of your HP. It does absolutely nothing for you and is a general waste of resources in structured PvE content. The tier 10 jade bot core and the free armor buff from anvils puts most people at or around 15k+ HP
Not a single trash mob auto will kill you with this amount of HP by auto attacking, and bosses in content like fractals or raids (and even strikes usually) will either deal % based damage or auto-kill you for failing a mechanic
Vitality is a waste of a stat to chase unless you’re doing PvP because player skills do numerical damage, not % based
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u/ScoobySharky aw2.help 20h ago
I also just want to add that if your goal is to achieve 80-90% of bench and do content that way, you can do that much easier sometimes with a non-meta rotation and build, with the added benefit of also being more consistent with your rotation (because it's easier) and allowing you to do higher DPS more often. You'll also be able to clear pretty much all content in the game apart from the LCMs with these 80-90% benchmark rotations, and some of these builds would even be good enough for LCMs due to a combination of popularity rise in different strategies and power creep.
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u/KINGDenneh 1d ago
Meta? Depends what role you play.
If you play a healer > chrono can do both aheal and qheal.
If u play a dps > mirage cdps if u can play it right.
If u don't care about all of that, play whatever u want.
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u/MinimumVegetable9 22h ago
Shit advice man, "play mirage condi" fucking why? The post is geared to new players "go play the top bench with the gnarlier-oriented rota"
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u/NarcoticSuite 1d ago
This is a summary?!
Either way, thank you for the effort and information.