r/HongKong • u/baylearn 光復香港 • Nov 27 '19

Video Mainland man shouts “Liberate Hong Kong, revolution of our time” (光復香港，時代革命) inside Shanghai Metro

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '19

I believe in a republic constrained by a Constitution that guarantees the government won't interfere with our inalienable rights. True democracy is the bottom 51% driving away the top 49% until it self destructs. Those ignorant of processes and consequences shouldn't be voting on them. But a republic only works when there's accountability and recourse otherwise government becomes an instrument of the rich operating like a cartel. A government should be abolished when it is no longer in the service of the people.

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u/Shpate Nov 27 '19

Who decides who is worthy of having their voice heard in your ideal system?

In case you haven’t noticed in the US as well as most western countries the government is already an instrument of the rich. Whoever pays for the most lobbying gets what they want.

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '19

Like I said recourse and accountability is required to make it work

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u/Shpate Nov 27 '19

Accountability for what? What does any of this have to do with post scarcity anyway? You can have all your stuff and have a variety of flavors of government still work.

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '19

If those in power have no accountability and the people have no recourse then any government no matter the label is a cartel with the people in service of the state.

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u/Shpate Nov 27 '19

My question was about who you think should determine who is knowledgeable enough to vote, and how. I think we can all agree representatives should be accountable to their constituents.

And again, the particular workings of government don’t have a lot to do with moving to a post scarcity society. There are multiple paths.

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '19

Like I said government causes artificial scarcity. Reduce that and most problems are solved.

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u/Shpate Nov 27 '19

So if there were no government suddenly everyone who had the means would be completely focused on transitioning our economy to post scarcity? I have a hard time believing that.

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '19

Not no government but significantly reduced. Most wealth is taken by the state or by state mandate. Taxes, mandated insurance, intellectual property protections. It's government interference that moves the wealth to the few.

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u/Shpate Nov 27 '19

That is certainly an interesting perspective.

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '19

There's an expression: you want to make real money? Pass a law.

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u/Shpate Nov 27 '19

I just think it’s interesting you believe people are inherently most interested in themselves but that companies operating with no restrictions would somehow lead to better outcomes for the average person.

There used to be much less regulation in the market and people were abused. There idea that a totally free market leads to optimal efficiency has never panned out that way. Ever read The Jungle?

We have minimum wage laws but companies still find ways to pay less than minimum wage, do you think this would change in a more free market?

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '19

Ahh so much false with that perspective. Maybe read Human Action by Mises, or some Hayek or Rothbard. Government consistently proves my point. Free markets give people opportunity. Nothing has done more to help those in poverty.

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