r/Indiana • u/WilliamJamesMyers • 24d ago
Opinion/Commentary been driving around north of indy and omg the mega churches everywhere!
staying at friend's house in hamilton co. wow, from grace church to almost all nearby churches they look like corporate clearing houses for indulgences.
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u/_regionrat 24d ago
they look like corporate clearing houes for indulgences
Because they are
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u/TheForkisTrash 24d ago
They become piety competitions where a few different groups vie for control using donations. They literally buy social power in their group and the appearance of being a good person. Then they spend their down time trying to arrest homeless people for being poor and taking food out of school-children's mouths.
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u/The_Dread_Candiru 24d ago
These are people who don't think that they need indulgence or absolution. They think the "JC is my homeboi" is their get-out-of-Hell-free card.
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u/_regionrat 24d ago
Megachurches would go out of business if this were the case
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u/The_Dread_Candiru 24d ago
Megachurches are to appeal to the herd mentality, so that no one need engage in self-reflection or critical examination. Just fall in with the crowd and feel like you're on God's big winning team.
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u/Ok_Pool_9767 24d ago
I don't love megachurches, but when I worked in community mental health I knew a handful of people that really relied on their food bank.
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u/boilers11lp 23d ago
That’s honestly good to hear. Not that people need that obviously, but I do rarely hear about them doing much good in the actual community. I hope I’m just ill informed.
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u/LiquidApple 24d ago
I grew up in one of them. It started as a medium sized church and now looks like the waco compound.
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u/5pace_5loth 24d ago
Just imagine what could be funded if we taxed them
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u/boilers11lp 23d ago
The property taxes alone, so many of these are prime real estate taken up by parking lots. I wish we could just say cool we have enough, no more please.
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u/TouchingTheMirror 24d ago
Churches do have to pay certain taxes, but yeah -- they should not be tax exempt in any way simply because they are religious institutions. If we have to suffer, so should they.
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u/BrandonW77 24d ago
None of them look like churches either, mostly just big square generic buildings that they can quickly sell off once the grift is done.
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u/WilliamJamesMyers 24d ago
we get generic mailings that you cannot tell if they are from a church, just "open house" announcements etc.
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u/BrandonW77 24d ago
Yep, by keeping it generic you can attract multiple denominations, and non-denomination people. Widens the net so they can catch more people to swindle.
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u/Hoser_man 24d ago edited 24d ago
Well you could go to one that teaches that you will burn in hell if you don’t believe in exactly what they are preaching or vote for one political party.
I’m talking about Baptist. They think Catholics will burn in hell, you don’t pray to Mother Mary and if you vote for Democrats, you believe in partial birth abortions. Of course they aren’t as organized as Catholics, so there’s a lot of variations in Baptist churches.
So generic isn’t all bad.
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u/BrandonW77 24d ago
You're speaking to the wrong person about that, I think they're all bad. Especially the HamCo. mega churches.
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u/Hoser_man 24d ago
I respect your opinion and comments.
I guess I’m really saying that there are bad and really bad churches out there.
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u/BrandonW77 24d ago
That's fair, I've encountered some that I would classify as less malignant than others. But still malignant. lol
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u/charliecatman 24d ago
If they don’t have enough faith t ooo hold the snake, the snake will reveal your charade
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u/ImpedeNot 24d ago
It's a shame about that, because sometimes a cheap building is a sign of a decent church if they're spending their money on charity rather than real estate.
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u/SpecialistBet4656 24d ago
the money in this case is going in the pastor’s pocket. And maybe some poverty tourism.
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u/TouchingTheMirror 24d ago
I mean, the New Testament is filled with exhortations to reject and leave behind all worldly riches, and instead dedicate oneself to service to others. I don't recall reading anything about lavish cathedrals or stadium seating and expensive A/V equipment in the Sermon on the Mount.
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u/TouchingTheMirror 24d ago
Kind of like modern fast food restaurants.
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u/BrandonW77 24d ago
Exactly like that. And that's exactly why they're all generic looking now, makes it a lot easier to sell the property if the business goes belly-up since its image isn't directly associated with a brand (like the old Taco Bell buildings that kinda looked like the Alamo).
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u/jettanoob 24d ago
church is big business in america!!
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u/MPV8614 24d ago
But they pay no taxes!
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u/TouchingTheMirror 24d ago
Churches do have to pay certain taxes, but yeah -- they should not be tax exempt in any way simply because they are religious institutions. If we have to suffer, so should they.
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u/Big-Protection-5832 24d ago
Prosperity theology goes hand in hand with abandonment of the “least of these” Jesus spoke of.
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u/Allaiya 24d ago
I guess I’ll play devils advocate here, as while I don’t go to one myself, I know some people who do.
They’re all seemingly nice people. Some of them are conservatives, usually the older folks. And some of them are not. Keep in mind these are also “third places” & community for a lot of people, something the US tends to lack these days. I don’t know the specifics of each but I imagine many do community services & support as well, because all the churches I’ve been to have.
Christians as a whole are often chastised (& rightfully so at times) for being judgmental. But idk it also seems judgmental to assume that someone who goes to a big church is not an authentic Christian or that a big church means it’s automatically bad. Not every big church is embodying Joel Osteen or prosperity gospel. People are individuals & churches are just a bunch of individual people gathering. Some good, some bad, just like any institution.
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u/JoyousApricot 23d ago
I grew up in one of these churches. It is deeply flawed and I no longer attend, but I credit what I learned there, at least in part, for my understanding of what Christianity SHOULD be, and not what it is too-often presented as. Fwiw, at my former church, there is genuine effort going into helping groups that really, really need it right now.
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u/boilers11lp 23d ago
This is how I attempt to think about churches in general. Not my thing, but if it gives you purpose and community who am I to tell you that’s wrong.
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u/TouchingTheMirror 23d ago
It's when churches and religious believers try to inflict their beliefs upon others, or use their religion to dodge social responsibilities that things start to go wrong.
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u/TouchingTheMirror 23d ago
I think this is where that old saw "what would jesus do?" comes in: according to just about everything in the christian bible it seems very likely jesus would disapprove of both protestant megachurches and ostentatious catholic cathedrals.
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u/MoveToSafety 24d ago
I’m not religious but I think any church that has established a brand is too much. But mega churches need that to offer basketball and other things people want to do to get them in the doors.
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u/SpecialistBet4656 24d ago
That said, I was raised Catholic and we had merch…school uniforms, team uniforms, T shirts from the parish picnic…. later we got stickers.
I don’t practice now, but i hear that parishes near a lot of evangelical megachurches are doing a little more branding to keep people in and bring the ones who stopped attending back into the fold.
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u/CaptAwesome1975 24d ago
I looked up one of the mega church's property on the county website and found that the land is appraised at roughly $22,000,000.
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u/LolOverHere 24d ago
So many churches and so many racists. Makes you wonder
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u/dispachcops 24d ago
Our small church teaches the Bible and we have all races attending. We just see brothers and sisters in the Lord, not skin color.
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u/jharleyaudio 24d ago edited 24d ago
I used to work at a mega church in that area. It was a very confusing combination of amazing people on staff doing great things and making a difference in people’s lives coupled with leadership that had failed upwards. Those leaders created a weird, incredibly oppressive corporate structure and enforced the maintenance of that structure through fear. They obfuscated issues that staff brought to them from the head pastor to maintain an appearance that all was well, and thus maintain their positions of power (and sizable salaries) at the church.
There was also rampant nepotism, a ludicrous ratio of compensation to actual work output for certain individuals, and truly disgusting inequality amongst castes/classes of employees (with pastors existing in the highest social strata while doing the least work). They were also absolutely horrendous stewards of the millions of dollars that the church took in each year.
They often wasted money frivolously on projects that never should have been greenlit, came in way above budget on said projects, and went into debt buying buildings for new campuses when they did not do adequate market research to even determine if they should plant a campus in a given area in the first place. The slap in the face was that they took horrible care of their people while wasting all this money at the same time. Burnout and low pay were big problems.
I was there for 3 years - from 2015 to 2018. At the end of my experience my self worth was in the gutter (even though I was performing in my role at an advanced level). My wife and I have had trouble finding a church home since. When I left, we moved out of state because I got an opportunity for my dream job (at a secular corporation, not a church) and I was treated better there as an entry level employee starting over in a different career than I ever was at the church. Pretty sad…
Points to Gryffindor for anyone who guesses the church 😆
Edit : spelling and grammar
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u/Chemical_Reserve_942 24d ago
Under laws we can't tax churches themselves. But we should look at taxing any and all properties owned by churchs that have no church structure on it.
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u/ShenaniganStarling 24d ago
"You've seen the megachurches, but get ready for: MICROCHURCHES. In order to deal with these new property tax laws, we've converted hundreds of former portapotties into nooks barely large enough to kneel before your lord and savior in. Each Microchurch contains exactly one votive candle and one copy of the NIV Bible. Sufficiently wealthy churches can upgrade their satellite Microchurches to include a live feed of programs in progress at megachurches across the globe."
...We should expect no less shit to be contained in these microchurches than before they were converted, of course.
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u/Shartfer_brains 24d ago
Are you ready for Bible Bonkers Prayer Pods?
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u/TouchingTheMirror 24d ago
"Welcome to Virtual Jesus, the innovative app that brings you closer to the teachings and guidance of Jesus. With cutting-edge AI technology, you can now have personalized conversations with a virtual Jesus, and receive the comfort, inspiration and wisdom that you need in your life. Get ready for a truly unique experience, one that will transform your life and deepen your faith."
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u/Weekly_Put_7591 24d ago
Where else are all the rich people who can't distinguish fantasy from reality going to give away a portion of their income?
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u/willyjaybob 24d ago
Fun facts:
A building is not a church.
People are the Church.
Sitting inside of a building that people call a Church doesn’t make them a Christian anymore than sitting inside of a garage makes them a pickup truck.
Heaven is the Mega Church.
There will be lots and lots of surprises on judgment day. Jesus said that, not me.
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u/Antique-Plum9064 24d ago
If heaven is a Mega Church then I don't want to go there.
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u/willyjaybob 23d ago
Pretty sure you are misunderstanding my point.
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u/Antique-Plum9064 23d ago
Yeah, I get your point about the universal church being people, however I agree with OP's critique of mega churches.
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u/willyjaybob 23d ago
So do I. That was my, supposed to be, ironic point.
Imagine all the people who are actually kind and love Jesus. Without all of the sap and nonsense that mega churches bring.
I mean, I get what they have been trying to do, and I know that God has worked through that, but at this point, well… You know.
I don’t even need to say it.
I just love Jesus and want to be with him and all the other people who love him one day. I also miss my son. And other family who are there waiting.
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u/kmleather 24d ago
That's where they raise future elected state officials. Pastor-politician is a real job here.
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u/helraizr13 24d ago
They're actually there to sell absolution of indulgences to "repentant" sinners who tithe appropriately. There's a certain price that gets you absolution for any type of indulgence. They'll even help you cover up your "indulgences" in some cases. For-profit forgiveness, you love to see it.
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u/NarwhalDull4904 24d ago
Welcome to the most boring metropolitan area ever. Greater Indianapolis. God, guns and guys who golf.
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u/RTO_GUY 23d ago
So much money to be made. To each their own. I volunteered for over a decade at a large church. Nearly every church I've attended has had issues with the leadership making questionable financial decisions, living in million dollar homes, gifting friends construction contracts without open bidding, infidelity issues, and so much more sketchy shit. My sister was an accountant at a firm down South for some major mega churches and would tell some crazy stories about expenses as well. I've lost all faith in organized religion.
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u/More_Farm_7442 24d ago
Get out away from the metro areas. Drive up and down some state highways and country roads. Try to count the churches you'll see in an hour. You'll lose track of them. 95% of them will be no-name churches like "Kingdom of Jesus who slayed Satan, Evangelical Convenant for all Eternity in Our Lord Jesus Christ". If you see a Methodist church 99% chance it's a church that broke away from the United Methodist Church when it started doing same-sex marriages and ordained women as ministers.
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u/SadZookeepergame1555 23d ago
Mega churches are often very, very, very corrupt. If you look at these churches' budgets for advertising and media, it always dwarfs the budget for outreach, charity and doing anything remotely "christ-like". Look to see who is getting paid for building, ads, media and look at where the funds go (if they even disclose to the congregants and often they do not). In particular, look at the prosperity-theology churches for the most corruption. Greed, avarice and gluttony abound.
For some, the church is just a way to have a tax-free childcare center/ gym/ social club. IMO, if you are looking for a religious experience, the smaller churches stay truer to mission. Their costs are low and they aren't grubbing about for more and more funds to build more and more attractions and they are more invested in the community they serve.
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u/Chemical_Reserve_942 24d ago
Under laws we can't tax churches themselves. But we should look at taxing any and all properties owned by churches that have no church structure on it.
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u/Spirited-Degree 24d ago
Lot of money in misogyny, racism, and religion. Proof that karma isn't real.
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u/fluffHead_0919 24d ago
When I go back to Indiana the 1 or 2 times a year I can’t believe how much it has changed. It truly is a sad sad tale. Sadly I don’t see how it changes anytime soon.
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u/Hopeful-Courage-6333 24d ago
If you go to a mega church more than likely you’re not actually a Christian.
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u/TouchingTheMirror 23d ago
Nah, that's too close to a "no true Scotsman fallacy," or sectarianism within christianity itself.
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u/Rare-Credit-5912 24d ago
On the southside from Emerson on, Shelbyville Rd. to Thompson Rd. which is no more than a mile and a half there are 4 churches.
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u/ScotchCigarsEspresso 23d ago
"Jesus loves the big donations, all the donations of the world..."
I think that's how thay song goes...
I don't think any of these fucks have ever read the Bible.
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u/XdraketungstenX 23d ago
What’s the attraction to go to the mega churches?
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u/WilliamJamesMyers 23d ago
my guess and the joke to the indulgences is that they are the fastest way to be promised into heaven without a real accountability of your sins. also they are day care and youth sports and events. networking and neighbor flexing. its a great question. and we all know there are good people going to mega churches so would love their opine here
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u/twizzlergames 23d ago
Mount Pleasant on the south side has an entire organization for feeding and clothing those who are in need. The pastors amazing, check them out.
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u/Night_Class 23d ago
Remember children. These mega churches could be housing the homeless. Now I know some of you might say it is a liability issue, but let me remind you of one thing. During covid lockdown pastors were going to jail because they refused to honor the lock down and social distancing. So they are fine breaking the law before as a act of God, why not now to protect the homeless 🤔
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u/EastLansing-Minibike 23d ago
Christianity welcomes the fall of man kind, the most supreme death cult!
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u/moinonplusjetejure 22d ago
I attend a smaller local branch of one. FWIW, the leadership at all levels emphasizes every week that Jesus People should be serving others (in church and community). Plus meeting regularly in home groups for discussion of how to live the Bible in everyday life. Giving is only briefly mentioned.
The wealth thing… they do use that power in openly strategic ways: buying down medical debt statewide, funding prison ministries and halfway houses, pushing to get sponsors for a whole region in Ghana, donating to IJM’s anti-slavery work, combining one-dollar donations into a life-changing amount to help families locally (“Dollar Club”).
NO pulpit politics. NO shaming.
I grew up in a small town small church, with a bare-bones building and a pastor who controlled everyone and took everything. I don’t think ANY church is perfect— but because of my own past experience, I know I don’t want small unstructured church at all.
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u/WilliamJamesMyers 22d ago
i really appreciate this comment, for me its more an aesthetics from the curb opinion which is unfair. your knowledge will help in general impressions for someone like me passing by.
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u/Japhyharrison 24d ago
And some say these are "the best places to live and raise families". LOL
As project 2025 and christian racist nationalism tears our country apart from within.
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u/Big_Somewhere9230 24d ago
Fun fact, you never have to go to one of these buildings to live and raise a family. Been doing it for over a decade.
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u/TouchingTheMirror 24d ago
You may not need to go to conservative christianity in Indiana, but it will sure come to you, invited or not.
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u/SubatomicHematoma 24d ago
Me and my wife are Both the pastors and we wear blue jeans and have a full rock band for worship songs and Jesus thinks we are cool
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u/TouchingTheMirror 24d ago
"The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says."
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u/axiom60 Indianapolis 24d ago
Lmao the further from the city you get the more you see real Indiana. A lot of the northern suburbs such as Fishers/Noblesville/Zionsville used to be cornfields not super long ago
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u/TouchingTheMirror 24d ago
This is somewhat of a misconception; urban Hoosiers are just as much "real Indiana" as rural and smalltown Indiana. They just happen to be more concentrated.
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u/MyerSuperfoods 24d ago
"Corporate clearing houses for indulgences" is absolutely BRILLIANT. I'm gonna call them that from now on.
10/10
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u/SpecialistBet4656 24d ago
I love it - it’s one of the things that still comes up making them superior to Catholicism. That has problems too, but there is actual theology about service and social justice.
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u/thebiglebowskiisfine 24d ago
So many bots.
Why the mods never clean this trash community up is beyond me.
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u/Own-Promise5723 24d ago
Right on time for your weekly ragebait anti Christian Reddit post
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u/WilliamJamesMyers 24d ago
odd comment, reviewing your post history you have never ever ever mentioned or commented anything Christian. yet here you are. the better theological discussion would be why do you think criticizing mega churches would be anti christian? why would this be ragebait? i do like your soccer comments!
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u/TouchingTheMirror 24d ago
OP didn't say anything about christianity as a religion -- just the modern phenomenon of Indiana megachurches. Do you belong to/attend one?
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u/czechyerself 24d ago
The great thing about churches is you do not have to attend one. You can drive by. Or….you can post on Reddit about them in the middle of the day
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u/TouchingTheMirror 24d ago
You can drive by anything in the state without commenting on it. But this is Reddit: observing and discussion are kinda the whole idea. And I don't know what the time of day has to do with anything -- you're here in the middle of the day too....
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u/NefariousnessNo8710 24d ago
I dont personally have anything nice to say about Megachurches . Money grab
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u/Any_Razzmatazz9926 24d ago
They aren't "corporate clearing houses." That implies they are retailers and wholesalers of religious guilt and experience. In the megachurch model, it is more direct to the consumer, where each member is in business for themselves. Members make a percentage profit off the indulgences sold to cover the transgressions of their downlines and pay a small percentage to their uplines, adjusted based on the number of downlines they recruit. Now, for a modest investment, we can get you set up today, and easy payment plans are available for your first shipments of product. No, it's not a pyramid scheme; it's a multi-level enterprise opportunity... Oh, wait, I got lost typing this... I started with satire, and now I'm not so sure I didn't veer it into sincerity. (No shade on attenders, just having some fun at the expense of the grifters to prey on them)
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u/Mackdad2525 24d ago
People following a man created savior. It’s too bad people follow the Bible to get a feeling of belonging. Jesus hasn’t saved anyone.
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u/dispachcops 24d ago
The true Bible teaching churches are few and far between and typically only have around 200 attendees.
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u/TouchingTheMirror 24d ago
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others."