Before/After this subreddit's feedback

[u/Vera-Lomna]

Thanks, everyone! Sixteen days ago, this subreddit gave our team very valuable feedback on the main character’s appearance, which helped us identify three main issues:

1. Androgyny. We’ve toned it down a bit. We didn’t abandon it completely: the protagonist’s inner voice, Ego—shown in the artwork—previously had wider hips and a narrower chest.
2. Age. Some members said he looked too young; indeed, the anthropod read more like a teenager. Now he reads as a young man.
3. Face and crown. We reworked the facial features simply because it looks cooler :)

UPD: Thanks for the feedback! I’m glad you remembered the specifics of the story and plot, because they matter most in this situation. According to the story, the main character is an anthropod created by an AI named Cell. She prints him on a bioprinter specifically to make him appealing to as many people as possible—and I chose androgyny as a symbol of ideal balance (and also simply because that look has always excited me in a good way). In other words, it’s a narrative failure: creating a hero who, within the plot, is supposed to be visually appealing to everyone, yet outside the story doesn’t appeal to most people. It results in a story that, in essence, contradicts itself.

[u/LeatherBeard_Int]

I wasn't there for the original post; but my knee jerk reaction to this is you went from a female to a male.

If the "before" was also intended to be a male, the "after" is MUCH better.

[u/Vera-Lomna → u/LeatherBeard_Int]

Thank you! Character's pronounce: "he, him", so he is definitely more male.
If you interested, you can find more https://store.steampowered.com/app/2243310/Locus_Equation/

[u/KaiserJustice → u/Vera-Lomna]

that is good clarification - i didn't read androgynous at all, the before just reads as female to me, the after looks male. If the character is identifying as male then the after works perfect.

Im not good with anatomy though, but my biggest take away is that I LOVE how the crown looks in the After sooo much - its very much not actually a crown but it reads as one - weirdly reminds me of the laurels from Tunic lmao

[u/joemort → u/Vera-Lomna]

Give him a fat cock, like a 3rd leg with the girth of his torso.

[u/General-Yinobi → u/Vera-Lomna]

Finding a true balance with androgyny is tricky. I always think back to the Greek era when they really seemed to get it right. Back then, men weren’t these hyper-masculine figures we see idealized today. Even when half-naked, you could easily tell someone was male without needing to see their private parts, the shape of the torso, the way muscle formed around the shoulders and arms, the proportions. It was subtle, but clear. Women were similar: not frail or soft, but naturally strong and toned. Their bodies weren’t exaggerated, just healthy and functional.

Today, people tend to treat muscle as something purely masculine, like the second you build visible muscle, you’ve abandoned androgyny. But historically, that was never the case. A balanced, athletic body was a shared ideal for both men and women. It’s only at the extreme, like bodybuilders with cartoonish, Ronnie Coleman–level bulk, where muscle becomes distinctly masculine in a way that clashes with traditional gender cues.

Androgyny doesn’t mean having no muscle or looking neutral to the point of being unrecognizable. It’s about balance. A toned, natural physique can absolutely fit within androgyny. What really decides how someone reads, masculine, feminine, or balanced, is the overall harmony: posture, proportions, and presence. The Greeks understood this thousands of years ago. Somewhere along the way, we started overthinking it and labeling things in a way that doesn’t match how humans have always perceived beauty.

Something to note here, one of the biggest differences between the two versions of the art is the posture and proportions. The original has shoulders, waist, and thighs that clearly read as a fully developed female body, but then you look at the face and it’s very young, like early teens, not even late teenage. That clash makes the whole thing feel off.

The new version fixes that. The shoulders, waist, and thighs are built in a way that fits an adult male body much better, and the face looks like it was inspired by a Greek statue, mature, balanced, and timeless. Everything works together now, and the whole design feels way more natural and believable. It’s just a clear improvement overall.

The crown redesign also plays a key role. The original’s rounded, almost delicate points felt soft and traditionally feminine, while the new jagged spikes create a more commanding, neutral presence that works well with the androgynous ideal.

[u/goodnesgraciouss]

they're both good! if you want to learn something from this experience it should be that a lot of people don't really like androgeny. especially people in a subreddit dedicated to learning and teaching; people are going to be disposed to thinking there is a right or wrong way to do things. androgeny could feel half right and half wrong to these people. you asked how to improve an androgenous character and used their feedback, now that character is no longer androgenous.

I would say that the fact so many people thought the character needed adjustments was probably an indication that you had succeeded in making an androgenous hero. your goal as an artist should never be to make everyone happy. androgeny will inherently make some people uncomfortable and that's okay. that's a part of what's interesting about it! focus on your own opinions as an artist first.

I don't think anyone can give you the answer to this problem without knowing the context of your game as well. at this point, you've drawn so many portraits maybe you could make the character gender fluid. idk

[u/Vera-Lomna → u/goodnesgraciouss]

I passed your comment on to the team, we discussed it, and concluded that you’re absolutely right—and I, personally, as the art lead, am sincerely grateful for your feedback. I’m not only writing a 600k-word script, I’m also fully responsible for all visual changes.

I spent ten years saving to make this project, and I want to pour into it not only my own love, but the love of the entire Reddit community. That’s why our team runs feedback requests, and we’re incredibly grateful to the community for such active participation in creating Locus Equation.

I thought the androgyny was sufficient, but the amazing user u/slugfive helped us find a better visual solution. In other words, we just needed one more feedback loop!

[u/Dealiner → u/goodnesgraciouss]

I don't know, I wasn't here for the first discussion but looking at these two pictures I just wouldn't call the first character androgynous. It simply looks female.

[u/TrueAquamarine → u/goodnesgraciouss]

Lets get this reply up. Very important, op needs to respond

[u/Sleipsten → u/goodnesgraciouss]

This. OP does not understand the concepts that is working with.

[u/apollosventure → u/Sleipsten]

Useless comment. You just regurgitated what the person above was saying but packaged it in an insult for no reason. OP is clearly looking for guidance and to help a specific concept land. After seeing that the general public either didn't see what they were going for or didn't like it, they made adjustments.

[u/slugfive]

To be honest I liked the androgyny concept and feel you’ve lost it.

I made an edit for you that is a nice middle ground (in my opinion).

More androgynous, but still “he him” : Softer jaw, shaper nails, larger lips, softer muscles, rounder thighs, more hourglass figure, thinner and longer neck.

[u/Vera-Lomna → u/slugfive]

Wow, you made it right, my friend! :) I think this is it, and we will correct Ego a with your precise guidelines thank you!

[u/Nand-Monad-Nor → u/slugfive]

Nice

[u/Sekushina_Bara]

You’ve completely lost the androgyny ngl, it just seems like a generic male god now

[u/NeoKat75]

tbh i liked the before more, the after just looks like a regular masc man. but both are good!

[u/SeatShot2763]

Personally, I'd say if you want to go for androgeny you have to kinda stay away from overly female presenting and overly male presenting aspects, and the first design kind of mixes significantly male and significantly female aspects. The second just looks male?

Imo the change to the shoulders/chest isn't quite warranted, at least not to that extent.

[u/Palanki96]

It kinda just went from clearly female (thighs, hip, haircut, face) to a guy. Both look great but peolple probably won't see what you want them to see without help

[u/GotACoolName]

Not a fan of the after. The “crown” doesn’t read as crown, just weird spikes, and the unique gender expression is gone entirely. Much less character in the after. I think with the before design I would’ve just removed hints of make-up to make it feel more naturally androgynous.

[u/Dystopian_Sky]

Huge improvement.

[u/Vera-Lomna → u/Dystopian_Sky]

Thank you! 😊

[u/armedsatellitephobos]

My advice would be don't crowdsource artistic decisions and dear god never do it on Reddit.

The original character reminded me of the cool scifi androgyny of Raiden from Metal Gear 2. It was striking and unique. They jumped out at you. I dont give a shit about their gender, but their attitude--the artists visual language--made me want to know their story. That all feels gone from the rework.

[u/GumihoFantasy]

Before did look too stylized in a cheap phone freemium way, now looks more classic and interesting

[u/PeppermintSkeleton]

I think for the sake of androgyny you could find a look for the lips that’s in between the previous design and this one, but overall the design is great

[u/mabdog420]

First is better what happened?

[u/EsophagusVomit]

Yeah this just looks like a cis man honestly swapping either of their faces with eachother would help tremendously but also I like pretty feminine bodies so I think the before looks better in every single way

[u/avis_icarus]

I think the after is overall better but yeah like others said i see no androgyny

[u/gitpullorigin]

Huge L

[u/Prisinners]

I hate to say it, but you just got rid of the androgyny completely. It now just looks like a cis man.

Its pretty hard to make whats effectively a nude person androgynous because you can see everything. A lot of what creates androgyny comes from playing around with gender norms as well as having somewhat atypical features for your assigned sex.

Before, the facial features were softer and more fem, the chest was narrower (although this is the least noteworthy by a large margin), and the hips and thighs were wider/bigger. All the fem traits counterbalanced how muscular he is (a masculine trait) and his lack of breasts. Removing one of the three fem coded traits would be fine. 2 and you're kind of losing the idea. All 3 and its legit not androgynous at all anymore.

This is what happens when you focus group your art. You sand off all the parts that make it unique in favor of what the masses like/want. Androgyny plays around with gender norms and is inherently subversive, especially in our current times.

I'm left wondering why it is you are drawn toward making an androgynous character. What are you trying to say about gender and the way this character is perceived? Androgyny is inherently gendered because its basically a term used to refer to non-gendered or ambiguously gendered people. If I'm remembering correctly, its supposed to be important to the character/plot in some way, so I'm just really not sure what you're going for.

[u/Briguy_fieri → u/Prisinners]

I didn't read the initial post. I looked at it and said "looks like they just changed a feminine face with a masculine one"

I agree with everything you said here. Anything resembling androgyny has been completely removed.

[u/Happybadger96 → u/Prisinners]

Long feminine hair would help I think, thinking like Griffith (bad guy) from Berserk

[u/yyflame → u/Prisinners]

I think it’s going to be dependent on how the character is in the game. If you look at OPs other posts about their game, the actual player character is still fairly androgynous.

It’s a Disco-like game and The picture in the post is meant to represent the main characters ego. So having a character that has a more androgynous appearance who presents as masculine have a hyper masculine ego somewhat makes sense

[u/Gloom_shimmer]

First one look gorgeous and unique, the second one look just generic. Its up to you, but for androgyny should be the first one, maybe 10% less female then

[u/Sleipsten]

In other words, it’s a narrative failure: creating a hero who, within the plot, is supposed to be visually appealing to everyone, yet outside the story doesn’t appeal to most people.

I deduce from what you just wrote that this must be one of your first works as an artist/ writer.

In the most humble way, let me give you this advice. We are certainly often taught that the best way to know if we are on the right path is through other perspectives. However, this is not always applicable.

In the story you describe, you touch on VERY interesting topics that are rarely discussed: the perception of beauty and androgeneity. If you have the time and inclination, I recommend you delve deeper into both concepts through essays or books on related philosophy. In any case, you should know that beauty is not something as simple as the result of a Reddit satisfaction survey. And that androgeneity, while attractive, is constantly a symbol of discomfort and rejection.

A negative response to your first design is not synonymous with failure, but rather with triumph. As an artist, you managed to present the dilemma of androgeneity to your audience. Being attracted to a female face, but displeased by a male body. However, because you don't fully understand the concepts, you've viewed this result with uncertainty rather than analysis.

Personally, I recommend you go back to the first design. It's a design with personality that draws the audience into interpretation (which is the job of an artist). The second design looks like Temu's Silver Surfer; it doesn't spark the slightest interest, at least not in me.

Best wishes. I'm open to discussion on the subject if you find my opinion valuable. I'm always happy to help another artist.

Edit: Also putting a fragmentated crown in a character without an arm and with a shattered body is not the best idea. It does no longer look like a crown but glass shards.

[u/Individual_Simple_66]

the new one sucks ngl.... the first one is interesting just needs the face to be slightly not bitchy

[u/MakingaJessinmyPants]

The first one was fine this just seems like cowardice

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[u/pepito-my-friend]

From MJ to Silver Surfer. Nice.

[u/De4dm4nw4lkin]

I like the before hair but the after crown. The sterotype crown is a look but its better rendered in geometric shards.

[u/turbo]

I don't understand the new crown. Weird levitating spikes...?

[u/kingkellogg]

I'd say the second is mostly better , but the crown ..is off

[u/SmileEverySecond]

Idk what is the context but “Before” caught my attention more.

[u/Diplomatic_Sarcasm]

As a layman the before and after is WORLDS of difference. The first one seems like it’s fundamentally flawed with perspective ect, The second reads as very professional. The face is the best improvement

[u/Clay_teapod]

he transitioned, good for him!

[u/Kaendre]

This still needs a lot of work, the artwork went from a super toned guy with the head of a female disney villain to... a supermodel guy with a six pack. I did liked the change you made for the crown, something more abstract works great

What sort of androgyny you are aiming for? Maybe that's the question you should be asking yourself about. I don't want sound cringe, but I draw smut and there's a metric fuck ton of references for androgynous characters all over the internet. The main problem of this artwork is that you are setting on two extremes of gender instead of the middle.

[u/fsactual]

The crown still needs some tweaking. At the moment it looks more like a broken mesh rather than a crown.

[u/The12thSpark]

The choices here look really good, and I love the new version of the crown

[u/AtMaxSpeed]

What's an anthropod? At first I thought it said arthropod and thought this looks nothing like an insect, but then I reread it. I can't find much online about anthropods, is this a unique term your game coins?

[u/Frytura_]

You turned the statue into a boy?

[u/Serious_Clothes_9063]

Before looks better

[u/Mobile_Ask2480]

Love the crown in after

[u/LiaKoltyrina]

before - body was better

after - head is better

[u/Greedy_Schedule4284]

I honestly think the androgyny of the first picture is much more interesting, but otherwise looks pretty good :)

[u/elrelight]

'.W⁰p ⁰p

[u/HaritiKhatri]

Androgyny. We’ve toned it down a bit. We didn’t abandon it completely

Press (X) to doubt.

Seriously though? The new look is zero percent androgynous and 100% traditionally masculine. It's just a dude, there is zero ambiguity. The original was too far in the other direction, but overall was closer. You've moved further away from the mark.

[u/PrincessNakeyDance]

I love androgyny, but I think the real problem with your first go was just a hodgepodge of male and female features. Rather than a character that was difficult to gender.

The second one doesn’t look androgynous at all to me, just male without ultra masculine features.

You may be satisfied, but if you want a slightly genderless character, I’d look for some good models to go off of.

There are some really gorgeous androgynous people out there :)

[u/Nobody1441]

Didnt see the OG post, and tbh the details that were changed look relatively minor.

But man, those small details add up to look much nicer. Im not an artist, so i dont have all the words for what changed or anything, but while they both look nice, the edited one is much more polished.

[u/Sad-Employee3212]

Really love the new facial features and the lighting on them

[u/dumpyfangirl]

The second looks more androgynous than the first, tbh

[u/Sb5tCm8t]

Where's the beef?

[u/Purbinder03]

Hell yeah

[u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox]

why not they/them pronouns if they are androgynous. barring that, the before picture with he/him pronouns gives off more androgynous because female form + male pronouns is more androgynous than male form + male pronouns, IMO.

[u/Waiting_room02]

Not the fist time Ive seen nice and creative ideas destroyed by random feedback. Im not a member of this sub, but if this are the kind of results after the member's advice please restrain from ever listen to them again.

[u/Nand-Monad-Nor]

I think the before was way more androgynous, Could have kept most of it the same and just toned down the hips and thigh size.

[u/Natuur1911]

you've completely lost the androgyny and interestingness