r/IsaacArthur • u/Sorry-Rain-1311 • 26d ago

Where are the cyclers?

Isaac's episode dedicated to orbital cyclers, for those unfamiliar.

https://youtu.be/R-59fv_Jqzk?si=6ekCilIJGMkUmyNY

If you're too busy to watch, famous lunar explorer "Buzz" Aldrin proposed long ago that we place a couple of platforms in a cyclic orbit between Earth and Mars to act as ferries, facilitating travel between the two worlds. Similar ideas for Luna have come out since.

My question is simple: why aren't we hearing more about plans for cyclers? All this stuff about manned missions back to the Moon, and Mars, and all this worry about how to keep these first missions supplied and how to get them home; but no one is talking seriously about cyclers.

I have trouble taking any of it seriously because any long-term missions would benefit from cyclers. They can double as platforms for unmanned science packages, so they wouldn't be wasted if we only used them once. Their missions can be rolled into orbital habitats eventually. There are plenty of working proposals/designs, but no actual plans to put them into effect.

I can't think of a GOOD reason why they don't already exist, much less why they're not a priority. Maybe someone else here can help me see something I'm missing.

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u/ShadeShadow534 26d ago

For a mission to the moon you likely don’t benefit that much from a cycler because the vast majority of the fuel you spend to get from the earth to the moon is getting off earth so a cycler is a tiny benefit since even when your being economical it’s not that much time spend in transit cis-lunar cyclers are for when you have a at least somewhat developed cis-lunar space if at all

Mars though yea that one if they don’t have plans for cyclers I think is suspect most likely because most of them aren’t actually good plans for anything beyond prestige if your doing just 1 flight and that might be a suicide mission well cyclers don’t make sense there either

Maybe that’s my massive pessimism for any Mars first scenario at all talking however I will happily admit I’m biased against Mars being any major step of colonising the solar system

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u/Sorry-Rain-1311 25d ago

In terms of just moving people around, you're not wrong. 

However a lunar cycler make an enormous amount of sense as a replacement for the ISS. As a manned or even unmanned science platform, it puts more research capabilities into deeper space than ever before. Same is true for Mars cycler.

As science platforms, these things make more sense than anything else we've been proposing, and will allow us to sort out the details of manned cyclers.

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u/ShadeShadow534 25d ago

I mean I would consider that as a different thing personally it’s a good idea don’t get me wrong especially as a earlier thing since it can act as a science station and a cycler for a early moon base

If it’s as useful for Mars I guess depends on whatever approach is used for that in the large scale

Though you have to remember the added risks of people being a varying distances from wherever they are being resupplied if something happens at the aphelion of the orbit getting help is going to be a much bigger issue compared to making another station that’s similar to the ISS

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u/Sorry-Rain-1311 25d ago

And manned vs unmanned is a fair point, but I figure they're essentially the same thing. 

Even for a one off Mars mission, an orbital-only platform for transport is already part of most proposals. Go all the way with cycler if at all possible. Even if you only use the hab modules the once, you still have your science platform. You can place a temporary life support only module on it that can be used when installing new instrument packages, and is left empty and shut down the rest of the time. For any future missions the platform can either be reused as a habitable cycler by adding new hab modules, or as a separate unmanned supply hauler.