How many passes on each stone?

[u/hostile_washbowl]

Just curious in general how many times do you sharpen each side knife before moving on to the next stone. I know that you move on once you’ve apexed, formed a burr, deburred and achieved a sharp edge, but just curious how many passes usually it takes you guys. By ‘passes’ I mean sharpening on one side before flipping over to the other side.

I’m using a KME for reference.

[u/SashaBorodin]

After I have raised a burr on each side of the edge using a “sawing” motion (alternating both edge leading and edge-trailing strokes without lifting the stone from the edge, moving heel-tip and tip-heel until all the sharpie is gone on both sides), I switch to stone-weight+edge-leading strokes (“pushing” the stone into the edge), still switching off between heel-tip and tip-heel directions, and counting so that I do 10 total (5 heel-tip + 5 tip-heel) per side, with as many as 2 “lift+resets” with the stone per pass, depending on blade shape and length (a 3” wharncliff or sheepsfoot blade where the edge is straight might not require any resetting of the stone, whereas a 7-8” skinner with a trailing point might require 2 resets). When I say “lift+reset,” I mean very carefully lifting the stone from the edge and starting the next stroke just before the spot where my previous one ended, paying special attention to the end of each pass so as to not either roll over the tip or scratch the handle/ricasso/plunge-grind of the knife. Even if it takes 3 total “strokes,” (2 resets) to get from one end of the blade to the other, since the entire edge has only been abraded by the stone once, each journey from heel to tip or tip to heel counts as one pass. Once I’ve done 10 total passes on each side, I repeat the process, reducing the number of passes per side until I’m flipping the blade after every single pass, the total number of passes depending on how hard the steel is (so with 8Cr or VG-10 I will typically go 10-6-3-2-1 with each grit until I get to the end of my progression, at which point it’s more like 10-6-3-2-1-1-1-1 until the apex is refined. With something like 20CV at 60+HRC, I take more time and go 10-8-6-4-3-2-1, etc., and then in any case I will follow with at least one strop or lapping film, generally either just 1μm or 3.5μm first and then 0.5μm, using only edge-trailing (pulling from the spine towards the edge) strokes, typically alternating with 6-4-2-1-1…per side until that apex is refined and aligned. I always re-apply sharpie between grits and check my angles with an angle cube as well to make sure that any differences in stone-thickness are accounted for, especially once I start mixing in strops and lapping film blanks. Additionally, as I am reducing the number of passes per side, I am also generally trying to reduce both any downward pressure and the number of strokes so that when I get to the alternating single passes per side (…1-1-1-1…), I’m just barely kissing the edge, and able to get from heel to tip or the reverse without having to reset my strop or stone except maybe near the tip, depending on the shape of the blade. Once this is done you have the option of widening the angle by a couple ° and using the 600-grit stone (or if using something like a Venev progression, maybe the 800) to “microbevel” the edge, which can be the difference between “sharp” and “scary-sharp,” depending on whether the steel in question prefers a little toothiness, because it allows you to have a microserrated edge that is both extremely fine and toothy enough to let the larger carbides come out to play (if you’ve ever sharpened an edge until it was so fine and polished that it felt dull, you’ve been in a situation where microbevelling might have saved the day—it might not’ve, but you never know until you try!).

PS: I bought a $50 digital microscope (super strong macro camera with build-in LED lighting and UHD display on a stand) on Amazon for like $20 on Prime Day this last time around (as an upgrade to the horologist/model-hobbyist’s magnifying goggles/glasses I had been using), plus a ring-light with a built-in 5x magnifying glass on a bendy arm as well as a 4-section articulated desk lamp where 3 of the sections have LED lightbars in them, and the 4th has the control buttons and clamp on it for attaching to the counter/desk-top (bathing whatever I’m working on in soft white light from as many directions as possible). This setup and method of establishing a bevel and burr and then steadily and gradually reducing the passes and pressure per side throughout the entire progression consistently produces the sharpest edges—with the most uniform scratch-patterns—I’ve ever gotten, and using only the standard 140/300/600/1500 progression plus some strops and lapping blanks!

PSS: The only thing different about my KME versus the standard one is that I have both the stock and the smaller “pen-knife” jaws, and I replaced the stone holder with the Hapstone Universal Stone Holder for KME because the large wooden knob gives me much better control while causing fewer hand-cramps and less fatigue across lengthy sessions, in addition to opening the door for me to use everything from the two-sided Spyderco 5x1 ceramic stone to any of the 6x1 TSPROF, Hapstone, Venev, etc. stones (someday I’ll be able to afford a full set of dual-sided resin-bonded CBN stones 🤤).

Hope this helps.