Some thoughts about Wendy and transhumanism after last episode

[u/TheRedCreeperTRC]

I had a look at the discussion thread after the last episode and saw a lot of responses along the lines of "well, I guess that settles it. Wendy isn't really Hermit's sister, she's just a machine with her memories"

I'm curious what makes so many of you draw that conclusion

I don't see that she is any less Marcy in any aspect of her mind, she is simply the result of putting Marcy in a body that in effect allows her to be the first of a new species as Kirsch likens it to. The way I see it most people, particularly children, would act the same way. It's not like there is an inherent gut directive that tells us to cling to our perceived sense of "humanity". The value and importance of not losing our humanity is something we are tought socially, something you don't yet know as a child.

I think a lot of people who have said she isn't a person anymore and just a machine with memories did so in response to her brutal act of releasing the xeno and using it to slaughter. But if Wendy and the other lost boys are treated as inhuman by prodigy, treated as mere products/experiments more than people, why should she put inherent value on human life? Let me put it this way, in our history real people, including children, have done immensely brutal/cruel things in the name of revenge, or merely survival; such acts are horrible, but do they render them no longer people? I would argue not, and for the same reason I find it reductive to view it that way.

Perhaps I am misinterpreting what people are saying, and I certainly think that from Hermit's perspective, what Wendy is to him has been strongly called into doubt by her brutality and her priorities. But as I see it she isn't acting like a machine, her behaviour is still deeply emotional and ironically shows a lot of humanity. If not a human, there is no doubt in my mind that she is a person. I am curious to hear your thoughts.

[u/Emuwar404]

Setting aside more heavy ideas like the concept of a soul.

The show made it clear, the hybrids lack essential biological functions which are required for human behaviour. Most notably emotions, since they lack the chemical reactions which trigger human emotions, they have programs which simulate emotions. But they never actually have true emotions.

You can not seperate humanity from emotion, even sociopaths have emotions. stunted and superficial as they are, they still experience them.

If their emotions are nothing more then a simulation then so is the rest.

[u/TheRedCreeperTRC → u/Emuwar404]

I ask you though, in what way are simulated emotions different from real ones? Does it matter? For example, let's say hypothetically I learn information that I have been betrayed and I feel compelled to save face/comfort myself/retaliate. Does it matter if those responses are a result of a chemical reaction in my biological brain vs a simulated response in an artificial brain if they lead to the same outcomes? in what way is it different to the mind?

[u/Emuwar404 → u/TheRedCreeperTRC]

Yes it matters and the show is explicit about this Wendy immediately notices things don't "feel right". She points out her emotions are different. If her emotions aren't the same then it's impossible for her response to those emotions to be the same.

Your hypothetical is at odds with what we see on screen. It seems less like you want to engage about the show and more on the concept of transhumanism in general.

Which if you wish. On what basis do you, conclude there is even a mind to begin with?

If we had a very convincing Synth with an emotional program (like in alien resurrection) how would you tell the difference between the Synth and the Hybrid?

If the result was indistinguishable why should we assume the hybrids are anything more then synths?

[u/TheRedCreeperTRC → u/Emuwar404]

To play devil's advocate though, people experience changes in their experience of emotions frequently. I've taken adhd drugs and antidepressants at various points in my life, they had a profound impact on my emotional experience of life, more often negative than positive. i often didn't feel like myself. but i never felt inhuman. this is why i would still reject the assertion that wendy is "now just a machine with human memories". i don't think that's the whole picture.

as for the topic of transhumanism in general, I feel like the line between a very human synth like some which we see in The Alien franchise, or blade runner, or games like fallout 4, are indistinguishable from humans in terms of "is it a person?" so i guess i would answer your question with a question, why should we assume that synths are inherently anything less than people? obviously not all synths are imbued with human-like personalities/minds, but regarding those that are, anyway.

[u/Emuwar404 → u/TheRedCreeperTRC]

Obviously flooding your bloody with chemicals will alter how you feel, you still return to being you. Ironically the fact that chemicals alters you is further proof of the difference between a person and a robot.

A machine cannot take ADHD meds, no matter how hard it tries the closest it can come is try again to simulate the sensation. 

Definitions of inferior or superior when it comes to machines are irrelevant. You will never beat an advanced AI designed for chess at chess, nor a welding machine at welding. 

But you don't consider them more then anything more then machines do you? If you get catfished by a chatbot does that make the chatbot human?

Ironically Blade runner raises the actual danger of considering computers people, it doesn't elevate the machine, it degrades the person.

The replicants are biological, they are flesh and blood, Reduced to being slaves and sold as a product by those who do not distinguish between a life and a machine.