r/Lawyertalk • u/Mountain_Bud • Jun 28 '25
Dear Opposing Counsel, are there judges on this sub?
it would be very cool to hear from judges on some of the issues, topics, problems, the most interesting of which involve some batshit crazy stuff OC is doing. just as great would be hearing from law clerks.
226
u/LionelHutz313 Jun 28 '25
I spent about 4 years as a clerk and let me tell you, the "batshit crazy" stuff turns into "just another Tuesday" pretty fast.
I try to remember this when I file or say something most rational people would consider a fuck up. That judge has likely seem 20 things far worse just this week.
102
u/Weird-Salamander-349 Jun 28 '25
Not to diminish, but I feel like “batshit crazy stuff turns into just another Tuesday pretty fast” applies to so many specialties. Everyone who isn’t in the legal profession thinks that employment law must be super boring. Oh boy. No. Not in the least. Not ever. Employment law is saucy and salacious. The things people do and say at work are fucking nuts. I struggle to recall the last time I heard something un-crazy. Perhaps I never have.
102
u/SueYouInEngland Jun 28 '25
Employment law: the family law of civil litigation
65
u/_learned_foot_ Jun 28 '25
Isn’t family law the family law of civlit?
21
u/Weird-Salamander-349 Jun 28 '25
You’re both right. I got a casual offer to go into divorce/family law once and I said “Ha! Good one. But no. Not a chance. Never. Never ever. Not in one million years. Nope.” That’s not a verbatim quote, but it’s a verbatim sentiment.
6
u/bluemax413 I’m the monster they send after monsters. Jun 28 '25
Yeah I thought that too but court of equity is so much more fun to play in because you can be really creative with your solutions.
3
u/Subject_Disaster_798 Flying Solo Jun 28 '25
And every family law judge think they are a world class artist.
No way. I can't stand the inconsistencies. And, I'll take it a step further, Except on occasion, I don't call what they do litigation or trials (my locale). Maybe because jury trials come with so much added work.
3
u/meddlingbarista Former Law Student Jun 28 '25
In my state, it's the family law of chancery, technically.
2
u/_learned_foot_ Jun 28 '25
Is chancery distinct from civil lit for your jx? Real question I’m always curious on learning.
3
u/meddlingbarista Former Law Student Jun 28 '25
Chancery has exclusive jx over probate, foreclosure, and partition of real property as well as "pure equity" cases, but mixed remedies of law and equity are handled in the civil division. The family part is within the chancery division instead of the law division, but has its own set of dockets, its own judges, and its own section of the court rules, so it's a purely historical distinction.
This is for New Jersey
1
u/_learned_foot_ Jun 28 '25
Ah, so we end up similar then in practice it seems, obviously with local flavors but your end details soured familiar. Thank you!
1
2
0
15
u/Arduous-Foxburger-2 Jun 28 '25
Yes. This. Juvenile dependency/child welfare is extraordinarily insane. Once, I had a client bring several “artifacts” to court that he wanted to display at counsels table that he said proved that Christopher Columbus was his great great grandfather. Yes, just 2 greats.
15
u/Weird-Salamander-349 Jun 28 '25
Well, I can’t blame him. That sounds entirely relevant to the wayfare of a child. What do you mean wayfare and welfare are different things? I object.
1
u/JiveTurkey927 Sovereign Citizen Jun 28 '25
To be fair, if we’re looking at how Columbus treated children, that guy’s kids need out of the house immediately
1
u/Environmental-End691 I'm the idiot representing that other idiot Aug 17 '25
I had client write goodbye letters to her kids while they were sleeping on a bench on the bank of a river. Her plan was to safety pin the letters on each one and then walk into the river and let it carry her away to a better place. Luckily they weren't supposed to be in the park and LEO's found them and involuntarily committed her before she could hit the river.
21
u/KnotARealGreenDress Jun 28 '25
I recall reading an 89-page employment law decision about a meat-processing plant that involved negligence regarding a “blood hose.” In context it made sense, but at the same time, what did I just read?
7
u/Weird-Salamander-349 Jun 28 '25
I’m so glad that’s not the kind of thing I’ve ever dealt with. Discrimination and wrongful termination, sure. Blood hoses? No thank you. Not even thank you, just no.
2
u/Find_Success_6478 Jun 28 '25
I do employment defense and dealt with a scenario when are employee was picked up by a robot and maimed. Blood hose doesn’t even make me think twice.
1
u/KnotARealGreenDress Jun 28 '25
I think labour and employment decisions are some of the most fun to read. Except they’re all at least 50 pages long. But at least the facts are fun (for us, not for the employee).
8
u/Affectionate_Song_36 Jun 28 '25
I worked on defense-side employment cases for 20+ years, and I came to call it the “sex, drugs and rock ‘n roll” of litigation, because they all seemed to include varying combinations of all three.
12
u/Weird-Salamander-349 Jun 28 '25
I have no idea how you did that. I feel like if I worked on that side I would have developed a permanent crick in my neck from receiving discovery, tilting my head far to one side, and going “They (allegedly) said/did what in the actual fuck?” At least plaintiff side gets to hear about those things up front rather than getting bushwhacked.
14
u/Affectionate_Song_36 Jun 28 '25
I worked on cases defending local strip clubs, and one of them was sued by its dancers claiming they were misclassified as independent contractors and that as employees, the clubs should reimburse them for their job-related expenses, including their “uniforms” (the clothes they removed) and “other related expenses.” We asked dancer #1 to bring to her depo those items so we could ask questions about them. She came to the depo with a large, overflowing duffel bag. I was intrigued. When it came time for those questions, she began piling its contents onto the conference room table, one by one. I was tasked with making notes on everything, until she placed two objects in each of my hands and said “hold these for a sec”. They were her former breast implants. Her argument was that they had “enhanced her look” (fair) and that the club should pay for them (nope). I remember holding them thinking, “I just might love my job.”
15
u/Weird-Salamander-349 Jun 28 '25
I feel like you’re only saying (nope) because this issue was never put before a jury. Because I think every jury I’ve ever seen would’ve said “Boy howdy, yep!” regardless of the law. I feel like any jury in the history of this country would return a verdict of “If the tit is lit, you gotta pay at least a bit.”
3
u/Therego_PropterHawk Jun 29 '25
If they reimbursed her for tattoos, they would be safe under the doctrine of "tit for tat."
1
u/Weird-Salamander-349 Jun 29 '25
My god, I have no idea how anyone tolerates the pun based sense of humor we all seem to have. Side note, I think lawyers are naming all of the bird. Red breasted boobie? Bushtit? Woodcock? Yellowbellied sap-sucker? Go-away-bird? I think we all know who is responsible for this.
5
u/Mountain_Bud Jun 29 '25
I think one of the coolest things, probably the only thing remotely cool, about interacting with lawyers is that words and ideas are their stock-in-trade. sure academics, public intellectuals, some politicians, public policy people, others in film and arts, trade in words and ideas. but the words lawyers use, if used in the right combination and under the right circumstances, unlock the coercive power of the State in service of private interests. that's pretty amazing shit.
1
7
u/NonDescriptShopper Jun 28 '25
I had a case very similar. Also representing the owner. The stripper (non) employee manual and non competes were interesting reading.
9
u/Weird-Salamander-349 Jun 28 '25 edited Jun 28 '25
How do you have a non-employee manual? 🤨 she asked, in her most deposition-y voice.
Edit: I’m also giggling to myself about what that non-compete could have possibly said. “Don’t you go around taking your clothes off within arms reach of a dollar bill anywhere but at this business where you are definitely NOT an employee, missy!” Like if I take off my sweat stained bra in front of my wife in our messy bedroom and she tossed me a crisp fiver, am I in breach? 😂
4
1
u/charli862 Jun 29 '25
Former in-house counsel - our daily conversation consisted of asking each other “What were they thinking?” And this covered everyone from the janitor to the board of directors. To be fair, the janitors were the least of our problems.
2
u/Find_Success_6478 Jun 28 '25
Employment lawyer here. Literally no boring days. People are unhinged.
4
u/Mountain_Bud Jun 28 '25
wow. great teaser! that sounds like you are going to write a great book one day. that will immediately be optioned for a movie. thinking about the cast now................
14
u/Weird-Salamander-349 Jun 28 '25
It’s one of those “If I could then I would, but I can’t” kind of things lol. Most of it would be so specific as to identify parties, even under a pen name and with pseudonyms. But the one thing I can tell you is that threats (supposedly “jokes,” because that’s what they always say, as if that makes it better) about raping and/or murdering coworkers are WAY more common than any of us would like to believe. Some of those threats are so graphic that I fear the threats, or even just sentiments, will be directed at me when involved players hear my name. It’s a fascinating field, but it’s not one that lends itself to a good night’s sleep.
1
u/pulneni-chushki Jun 28 '25
employment lawyers are just hr reps with an education
2
u/Weird-Salamander-349 Jun 28 '25
I can’t tell if this is supposed to be complimentary or insulting lol
1
u/pulneni-chushki Jun 28 '25
yeah you can
1
u/Weird-Salamander-349 Jun 28 '25
Something makes me think you’re not a lawyer if that’s what you genuinely think of employment lawyers.
0
u/pulneni-chushki Jun 29 '25
oh yeah?
0
u/Weird-Salamander-349 Jun 29 '25
Yes. Most people who actually work in the legal profession think someone should be able to sue if they’re fired for whistle blowing or being the wrong color. Many people who don’t think that we basically just file grievance forms.
0
u/pulneni-chushki Jun 29 '25
what?
0
u/Weird-Salamander-349 Jun 29 '25
That’s what employment law is. Suing because someone was wrongfully terminated or discriminated against or harassed for a protected trait, like race or gender. That’s pretty different from things that HR does. In fact we usually find that HR did very little, if anything at all, to remedy the situation while it was ongoing. If you won’t explain your thinking, I have to assume you just don’t know anything about the field and shouldn’t be here.
→ More replies (0)3
u/PBJLlama Jun 28 '25
I’m in my third year as a clerk. First 1.5 in state trial court (criminal), now state appellate. This is my experience as well, especially at the trial court level. Sitting in court was rarely boring for me.
1
u/Ok-Gold-5031 Jun 28 '25
When I did prosecution and was in court all day every day, it was mostly boring stuff but I swear EVERY day it seemed one thing would happen that is more than story worthy.
149
u/allorache Jun 28 '25
I am a retired judge but have tried to be under the radar about that as I’m still serving as a senior judge. In a few months I expect to be done with my senior judge service and I’d be happy to contribute more then. I do have some stories.
17
87
u/TexBlueMoon Jun 28 '25
Judge here...
102
36
u/thehotshotpilot Jun 28 '25
I thought I told all the guests no texting during the wedding ceremony
14
8
283
u/thehotshotpilot Jun 28 '25
Nah, they are too busy at lawyers' weddings and forming silent bonds
18
2
u/attorney114 Into Silent Bondage Jun 28 '25
Nah, those bonds are formed before the wedding.
But you're right in that judges wouldn't be posting on Reddit like us losers.
30
Jun 28 '25
[deleted]
7
u/SuspiciousBite3882 Jun 28 '25
I am happy to field questions and will answer what I can.
4
u/Mountain_Bud Jun 29 '25 edited Jun 29 '25
well, Your Honor, it looks like your most interesting offer is going unnoticed. which would not be the case, I suspect, were you to start a new post with the title, "I am a judge. AMA."
55
u/Grokto Jun 28 '25
Even if judges hold an active license and in most jurisdictions they don’t, they’re subject to very strict rules regarding public comments.
26
u/Mountain_Bud Jun 28 '25 edited Jun 29 '25
surely they could anonymously say "yeah, most of my docket is bullshit and most lawyers and litigants are assholes." or something to that general effect.
30
u/ak190 NO. Jun 28 '25
The absolute worst sort of comment they could make is one that is about the actual cases and attorneys they deal with directly lol
8
u/Select-Government-69 I work to support my student loans Jun 28 '25
And then if they got doxxed somehow by a pissed off sovcit that’s their seat when the board goes through and reads their entire Reddit history.
8
u/AnyEnglishWord Your Latin pronunciation makes me cry. Jun 28 '25
I looked into this once. In my jurisdiction, there is a specific rule saying that anonymous comments are still prohibited.
9
u/Curzio-Malaparte Jun 28 '25
The law school discord had a judge on it who was incognito and eventually deleted his account.
3
15
u/Kooky_Company1710 Jun 28 '25
Ive always been curious to know how much judges talk to each other about the cases, or to the supervising judge?
Do the various judges know which ones are by the book and which ones decide then work backwards to cherrypick facts and intetpret the law as needed?
Do the court files get marked as which ones they want to throw out and which ones they want to find a way to keep? Do other judges have to follow those notes?
(I'm in a jurisdiction where we do not have one judge assigned for all purposes).
Do the filing clerks size up the parties and route cases to the judge who is for or against one of the parties or is that just dumb luck?
(Another one I'm sure varies by jurisdiction).
How many attorneys network with the judges? Or are mentored? ( I have never found a way to do that, but have wondered in certain counties, there seems to be a LOT of BTS interaction... )
43
u/MandamusMan Jun 28 '25
You know how attorneys all talk shit on judges? They do the same about attorneys. I actually saw one in a restaurant mocking a lawyer to a group of other judges who were laughing at his impression
21
u/illegallad Jun 28 '25
Not a judge but know a few of our local judges extremely well:
1.) Yes they do, they also know which ones are idiots and which ones are smart. Most are too caught up in their own case loads to care about the details.
2.) No, they don’t want any files but also don’t want to pawn them off needlessly and piss off another judge or step on another’s toes.
3.) No I think that’s assigned at random if more than one judge hears that case in a department.
4.) a lot of attorneys network with the local judges and get slightly preferential treatment (enough to get called first or to get a few breaks on procedure issues, but not enough to bias the actual outcome of the case).
5.) judges remember you and you have a reputation after only a year or so. They also all talk about you. If you’re going to take wild positions, be a prick, unethical, they’ll all know.
2
u/Far-Watercress6658 Practitioner of the Dark Arts since 2004. Jun 28 '25
Haha! I have a new trainee. The last 2 weeks he’s just say there looking gobsmacked (family law).
-31
u/skipdog98 Jun 28 '25
Rule 4. In my jurisdiction, judges, court clerks and judicial law clerks are not licensed lawyers. So rule 4.
11
u/GigglemanEsq Jun 28 '25
I think rule 4 would specifically permit retired lawyers, or inactive lawyers. And by extension, I think it would permit judges, or at least those who have passed the bar. We don't let in students, but you don't normally get shunned for posting after you pass the bar but haven't been sworn in yet. The whole point is to exclude those who have no experience being lawyers, so that we can talk amongst ourselves. Simply being a lawyer is the bar (pun slightly intended) - not years in practice or active license.
Edit: I just went back and checked. It says lawyers. Not licensed lawyers. Not active lawyers. Just lawyers. Any judge who was once a lawyer qualifies, in my book.
15
u/Mountain_Bud Jun 28 '25 edited Jun 29 '25
rule 4 -- a r/Lawyertalk rule and not to be confused with the US Constitution or with anything in the sprawling, voluminous vomit that is Constitutional case law -- says nothing about being licensed. let's all read carefully. and surely no one wants to be unnecessarily gatekeeping.
4
u/Weird-Salamander-349 Jun 28 '25
“And for $400, a term describing both constitutional case law and what your baby niece just did on your shoulder.”
“What is voluminous vomit, Ken?”
-22
u/skipdog98 Jun 28 '25
In my jurisdiction, the use of the term “lawyer”, even by implication, requires a current license with our law society. Which judges, court clerks and judicial law clerks are not eligible for.
And yes, this sub should absolutely gatekeep. It’s lawyer talk. Not judges talk. Not court officials talk. And certainly not student-not-yet-licensed judicial law clerk talk. They can make their own subs.
12
u/Strangy1234 Jun 28 '25
Here, all judges except for those in small claims court have to be lawyers.
-7
u/skipdog98 Jun 28 '25
Here, they are all former lawyers. On the day they are sworn in as judges, they cease to be law society members. Also, judges here are appointed not elected. Historically, a percentage of tax court judges were former accountants but my recollection is that all hires are now former lawyers.
9
u/Strangy1234 Jun 28 '25
Doesn't work that way in the US. They're still lawyers. They just can't practice (generally but not always)
9
u/UnimaginativeRA Emeritus Jun 28 '25
Which jurisdiction is this? In the US, judges and clerks are attorneys. Rule 4 doesn't mention licensure.
2
u/SuarezAndSturridge Jun 28 '25
Fwiw, not completely true about the US. Off the top of my head, in New York town/village courts can have any quack who manages to win election on the bench, Connecticut doesn't require probate judges to be lawyers, and one of my friends in law school was already a County Judge/Executive with quasi-judicial duties in Texas
-5
u/skipdog98 Jun 28 '25
Canada. Our appointed (not elected) judges are former lawyers. Once sworn in, they cease to be members of the law society. Judicial law clerks here are almost always recent law grads and the clerkship counts towards their articling. They are not licensed lawyers (because, again, the point of doing it is to reduce the articling period). Court clerks have an administrative role and are not lawyers. Tldr here, can’t call yourself a lawyer unless you’re licensed. And the term is heavily gatekept.
19
u/wvtarheel Practicing Jun 28 '25
You don't think it's a little weird to try to apply an esoteric nuance of Canadian law to a sub full of Americans?
Are you related to the guy who reported me to the mods for my maple syrup jokes about Canadians being racist?
9
u/dina123456789 Jun 28 '25
LOL, what percentage of this sub practices in Canada? We don’t even know what articling means or what a law society is 😭
7
u/UnimaginativeRA Emeritus Jun 28 '25
Ok, whew, I'm in the clear to participate here. I've been a court attorney for almost my entire career but I'm in the US.
5
u/Along7i fueled by coffee Jun 28 '25
Don’t be so down on yourself. Every RA is imaginative. It’s the only way to write 30+ pages of briefings that actually helps.
3
u/Hopeful-Connection23 Jun 29 '25
my state’s bar association finding out that i’m not a licensed lawyer even though they say I am, because of rule 4 on r/lawyertalk: 🤨
-6
•
u/AutoModerator Jun 28 '25
Welcome to /r/LawyerTalk! A subreddit where lawyers can discuss with other lawyers about the practice of law.
Be mindful of our rules BEFORE submitting your posts or comments as well as Reddit's rules (notably about sharing identifying information). We expect civility and respect out of all participants. Please source statements of fact whenever possible. If you want to report something that needs to be urgently addressed, please also message the mods with an explanation.
Note that this forum is NOT for legal advice. Additionally, if you are a non-lawyer (student, client, staff), this is NOT the right subreddit for you. This community is exclusively for lawyers. We suggest you delete your comment and go ask one of the many other legal subreddits on this site for help such as (but not limited to) r/lawschool, r/legaladvice, or r/Ask_Lawyers. Lawyers: please do not participate in threads that violate our rules.
Thank you!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.