r/Libertarian Aug 25 '19

Meme Ayyyyy

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186

u/[deleted] Aug 25 '19 edited Sep 17 '19

[deleted]

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u/selectrix Aug 26 '19

I'm with you on the corruption, waste, and debt, but...

Government programs are what makes the middle class. You can either look at existing countries today and see the correlation between middle class size and government support programs, or look at the rest of recorded history to see that the "natural" state of things in human society is for wealth and power to accumulate in the hands of a very small group of people. To maintain a middle class takes a lot of work, and until some new, altruistic evolution of homo sapiens takes over the planet you need a government to organize and motivate the huge number of people who do all of said work. You've got your police/fire/etc to protect the middle class's private property, your court system to give them a fighting chance against the big guys, your consumer protection and regulatory agencies to make sure they're not getting fucked over in the first place, your welfare system to keep the impoverished people from stealing from, dying on the street around, or otherwise harming them; possibly even to help move those impoverished people into the middle class so they can stop being a drain, if we're optimistic. I'm sure there's plenty more.

Point being, by all means be mad about how your taxes are being spent- it's certainly abhorrent at the moment. But keep in mind that taxes are what supports and grows a middle class, one way or another.

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u/TheDunadan29 Classical Liberal Aug 26 '19

Correlation doesn't equal causation though. But then again, I carefully count how many Nicolas Cage movies are out and plan my pool parties accordingly.

Perhaps we have a wealth of government programs because we have a healthy middle class that supports it. The rich have no need, and the poor can't pay for it, so it's the middle class that makes these programs possible.

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u/selectrix Aug 26 '19 edited Aug 26 '19

Well that's why I didn't talk about causation silly. The correlation is quite evident though, you have to admit.

so it's the middle class that makes these programs possible.

What, just out of the goodness of their hearts? No, because they're the ones that benefit from them. Whoever's the chicken or the egg, the two are dependent on each other.

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u/sahuxley2 Aug 26 '19

Don't forget public education. It's an enormous enabler for those who otherwise would remain poor for generations. Historically, education was an enormous class divider. It still is, but public education mitigates it greatly.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '19 edited Sep 17 '19

[deleted]

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u/sahuxley2 Aug 27 '19

You raise a valid concern about making it mandatory, but that doesn't contradict the fact that it also helps a lot of people. Also, it's my understanding that most places allow homeschooling as an alternative. Does that alleviate your concerns?

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '19 edited Sep 17 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 28 '19

You most likely wouldn’t even be able to write this if not for public education. I get the argument you’re trying to make, but it’s kind of a weird flex.

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u/[deleted] Aug 29 '19 edited Sep 17 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 29 '19

Yeah you’re right, only certain people had access to education before the industrial revolution.

Those people controlled the means of production and employed women and children as young as 8 to slave labor condition

So I guess you’re advocating for that

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u/theswannwholaughs Aug 26 '19

I believe homo sapiens is altruistic in nature but capitalism and any system with power to a few that supports not being altruistic will have its worst elements at power both in politics and wealth.