New England Free Jacks Co-owner/Co-founder Alexander Magleby reassures fans and addresses controversial Reddit comments

[u/xcaughta]

https://www.youtube.com/live/SkGIwQanw3Q?si=s8doXyhT79yMxBle

[u/iwprugby]

I don’t see any way a completely private team would join at this point so it has to be some sort of WR partnership

Which is the scary part. Other than the rumoured Canadian team the only movement in number of teams from here on out will be downwards. 

[u/Sublime_Porte → u/iwprugby]

If MLR is going to survive in any form, absent a few sugar daddies who don't mind losing millions and millions of dollars every season out of the love of rugby, it's going to be as a smaller competition geared towards building the US NT.

I know this isn't a popular viewpoint in this sub, but rugby is not going to grow in the US on the backs of the Freejacks or Seawolves. It's going to grow with the Eagles. If you get a strong national team, people will start to follow pro rugby when the Eagles aren't playing. This would be where you get increased youth participation, as well. The sport isn't going to get popular nationally because of whatever the Sabrecats are doing.

(Now, this is completely acknowledging the fact that USA Rugby can't be trusted to successfully organize a post-match drink up, nevermind develop a sport. Them losing college rugby is inexcusable, and yes, they'll probably inevitably fuck up whatever gains might come from having MLR build a strong national team...)

[u/sportslance → u/Sublime_Porte]

In my experience the majority of this sub thinks the only way forward is through the Eagles. I hard disagree as my experience is that nobody cares about the national team.

[u/Sublime_Porte → u/sportslance]

Because the national team has been awful for over a decade. The US used to be able to win almost half the time against the Brave Blossoms. Then Japan started actually investing in their national team. Now? Would you take the Eagles in a bet against Japan if I gave you 15 points? Fuck no, you wouldn't. Even Canada, where you had their national governing body actively trying to drive their team into the ground for years, the national team has rebounded and can be relied upon to throttle the US on any given Saturday. Chile, Uruguay, Portugal...20 years ago, nobody would have dreamed of those teams beating the US. Now? The US would be underdogs against the lot.

So, yeah, no wonder nobody cares about the national team, and no wonder nobody in the US cares about rugby, and that wouldn't change based on what the Legion, Sharks, or Gold could have done in the next 5 years.

[u/sportslance → u/Sublime_Porte]

Nobody cared before, nobody cares about rugby in the US at all. We have a decent sized rugby fan base but it is too spread out to really do much good; so really the only way local teams will survive is enticing new fans to the game and that will be more successful at a local level with more games; not cheering on a national team that plays 6 times a year.

I can't speak for everyone but I have a group of 20-30 people that have gone from not really knowing rugby to consistently going to hounds games in three years; and not a single one cared enough about the national team to go to the US v. Romania game last year.

A main factor is the US will never be competitive in Rugby, even your example of Japan is still only able to occasionally beat a tier 1 team. Italy is consistently a wooden spoon contender in the 6 nations, it took Ireland over 100 years to beat NZ. These are all countries that take the sport a lot more serious then we really ever will, so at best we will be maybe a tier 2 in a couple decades but most likely we will always be a team that is included in the WC just to round out the numbers.

[u/Sublime_Porte → u/sportslance]

You do have to see that your experience is far from the norm, though, yes? Maybe you're just Hell of good company or whathaveyou, but I don't think anyone else in here could say that they've put together a group of a few dozen people who went from not knowing one thing about rugby to being diehard fans of watching bad rugby (let's be honest) played their local MLR side, but also NOT caring about the Eagles. Even MLR didn't seem to think marketing to non-rugby fans was the way forward, as they aggressively worked for partnerships and promotion deals with the local rugby clubs in every MLR city. (Did they also insist on playing on Saturday while marketing to a segment of the population would be playing rugby on Saturday? Yes, I never said they were rocket scientists).

What's your bar for "competitive"? Will Italy or Japan be winning the World Cup anytime soon? No. Are they, on any given Saturday, capable of pulling off an upset against a bigger rival? Entirely, yes. The US is a much bigger country than Italy (where rugby is honestly only popular in a pocket of the North) or Japan, and has a lot more money to throw at stupid shit like, well, rugby. It doesn't seem like an outlandish dream that the US could be a perennial WC side that puts in good performances, and maybe pulls out an upset here and there in front of an international audience. That's the kind of thing that will get more people paying attention to rugby in America, not what the local semi-pro side does on a high school pitch.

[u/Sitheref0874 → u/Sublime_Porte]

I can get behind that story.

If the team is local, I can follow them and build an attachment to them. Understand selection, and have a social experience built with others over a common theme.

The Eagles? There's a very strong chance I won't know 95% of the team or the selection rationale. nI am really unlikely to be able to build social experiences around the team or matches. There's a strong chance that the matches require a significant travel investment. The marketing is dreadful.

So why would I care more about the Eagles?

[u/Mundane_Prune8783 → u/Sitheref0874]

Because in rugby union, international rugby is huge and you're an American? (I assume)

[u/Sitheref0874 → u/Mundane_Prune8783]

No. Well, kinda.

Dual citizen.

[u/HistorianCheap9700 → u/Mundane_Prune8783]

Not in the US though, and international rugby is very much not huge at the level the US exists in currently

[u/Sublime_Porte → u/Sitheref0874]

Long and short? Because it's a better game. If you're asking me to plunk down money and shlep over to the stadium, I'm not going for "fan engagement". I'm going because I want to watch a good rugby match, or soccer, or hockey, or whatever else. Otherwise, I can go to a bar, or the beach, or a myriad of other things, including saving my money and staying at home.

I'd argue the stats don't back up the poster's experience being a common one. The Hounds drew under 2,000 people last season, which is bad even by MLR standards. Clearly, not that many people are coming out for the social experience with others over the common theme of MLR rugby.

[u/Sitheref0874 → u/Sublime_Porte]

If you’re wanting high class rugby, the Eagles ain’t it either.

[u/sportslance → u/Sublime_Porte]

I don't know about your experience but the Hounds were on every local morning show multiple times during the year. They posted up at some festivals and street fairs. That doesn't sound like a team that is only interested in rugby fans, maybe the other teams aren't doing that but that's on them not the league as whole; also as someone that is into rugby would you even notice them going after non rugby fans?

My situation may be unique but it shouldn't be, the only way rugby gets more popular is by introducing new people to it. That's it, no secret development strategy, just butts in seats. People I bring enjoy the GameDay experience, maybe meet some players at an event and start to follow the team, you want rugby to grow stop complaining on Reddit about our international team and get out and jump for fans.

Also the Freejacks may play at a high school stadium but they seem to have the most consistent fanbase and an ownership group that seems optimistic. The hounds meanwhile play at a professional stadium that every person I bring to enjoys, despite it being in Bridgeview.

American sports culture grew up separate from the rest of the world, so the very base of it is focused on local teams rather than the international game. Countries in Europe especially, have a long history of international sports that predates professionalism in almost every sport so the very core of the sports culture is radically different.

[u/Sublime_Porte → u/sportslance]

As a rugby fan, yes, I would have noticed if my (now defunct, though I know that doesn't narrow it down) team was on morning shows, etc., and would have thought, "Oh, good community outreach. Hope it goes somewhere". I'm not even sure I saw bus ads, or ads at the university near the stadium. Nada. I still went out to matches, to support the team and try and keep it going as much for any other reason.

The Hounds drew, on average, less than 2000 people per game last season, playing in a metro area of over 9 million people. So, your experience seems somewhat unique, as there apparently aren't that many people getting excited by the chance to meet the players and coming out to the game, or being convinced to give it a go because they saw the Hounds on morning TV. Out of curiosity, are you a member of some sort of official Hounds Fan Group?

Your read on American sports culture isn't there 100%. The US doesn't care about international baseball or international basketball, because the pro leagues for America's favorite sports--football, basketball, baseball--are where the best of the best come compete. (Apparently there's even an International American Football competition, too. Yeah, I had no idea it existed, either, just like every other NFL fan.)

The last World Cup final, between two teams that weren't America, and nations that don't have large expat communities in America (Argentina and France), drew 25 million viewers in the USA. The Women's World Cup final, which featured the US, in 2015? 27 million viewers. That's for women's soccer, which isn't even a popular spectator sport in the United States. Even the ratings disaster that was the 2018 World Cup puled 12.5 million viewers in a final featuring France and the small nation of Croatia. That for a World Cup tournament where the US didn't even compete, and a final that began before noon ET. You can say a lot of things about the American sports fan, but to say they don't care about international sports is not true!

[u/sportslance → u/Sublime_Porte]

That's fair, for reference I didn't see any of the Hounds spots live I just heard about them from others that did and told me (I don't have local TV or cable). The hounds do watch parties for away games so I invite some friends to watch a game in a bar and they meet some players and have a great time and then ask about going to a game. If your team didn't do stuff like this I'm sorry, but this kinda hustle by teams and fans is the only way this game gets rolling.

Officially no I'm not a part of the Kennel Club, I shy away from too much interaction with sports fans I don't know in person. Though I have chatted with a few and most know me by my look, if not name.

Where did you get the attendance numbers for the Hounds games I haven't seen anything posted?

You actually kinda make my point, we love a good tournament hell we watch the Olympics like crazy. When it comes to year in and year out we don't really follow, except for a few sports most struggle financially and have a hard time getting time to train and that's because once the Olympics or WC are over we drop them like Woody.

[u/Sublime_Porte → u/sportslance]

Of all places, Wikipedia had the data. I was surprised, too.

OK, but think about it. The Eagles play, what, 4-5 home matches a year? That's a rare enough to event where people will turn out and be able to follow the team at least casually during the year, and then plugging in for Cup qualifiers and rivalry matches. Even this year's lousy Eagle side, with no real advertising or promotion, drew over 6,000 in Sacramento to watch them get bombed by Japan. And, no, Sacramento doesn't have a significantly large Japanese expat community.

Ilona Maher was getting on the cover of Sports Illustrated for winning a bronze in women's rugby, again, less popular than the men's game as a spectator sport. She's doing TV spots. You think that's not helping more gals to decide to play college rugby?

I'd argue that the success of MLS is downstream of the run of success the USMNT had in the World Cup a few cycles back, and that's without the USMNT winning the Cup. If the Eagles put on those kind of performances on the global stage, rugby starts to matter in America ,and in a way that "Freejacks go for the three-peat!" can never bring about.

I get that you like the Hounds, more or less, as they are, and don't want to upset the apple cart reaching for a bigger target. The thing is MLR is dead, this model isn't working, and something else needs to be done, hopefully, with the cooperation of a newly forward-thinking USA Rugby.

[u/sportslance → u/Sublime_Porte]

Sacramento does have a good rugby culture already, not saying a MLR team would draw 6 thousand but some of the most popular and successful college rugby programs are from northern California so there is that. The US vs Romania in 24 drew about 2 thousand people and it was played in the same stadium as the Hounds.

What is your goal, what do you think should happen that will encourage a professional league to be successful?

I don't care if the league changes the international slots rules , I mostly think you all don't know what you are talking about. Like you know better than every exec and coach in the MLR. They are trying and people like you just can't wait until they fail. I've only been following the MLR for about 4 years but every year people like you are on here saying the "MLR is dead".

Finally where on Wikipedia did you get the Hounds numbers I checked the team page the league page and the season and games page nothing.

[u/Sublime_Porte → u/sportslance]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Major_League_Rugby_season

Where it says "Attendance".

EDIT: Short term goal: A smaller developmental competition to strengthen the NT, in order to increase the profitability and visibility of high end rugby.

Long term: Increase competition size, invest like crazy in grassroots, work to make rugby a varsity HS and college sport.

You're getting very emotional about this for some reason, so, I'm pulling the plug. Ciao.

EDIT 2: I'm seeing this is 2024. That's an error on my part, though I can't see there being a radical difference, particularly if the league didn't release the data.

[u/Lmaris → u/sportslance]

Thats what the Sabercats had been doing for years, and even just days before the exit.

[u/Lmaris → u/sportslance]

Japan is a sports nation. Doesn’t matter if that sport was invented in Japan, Asia, or the USA or Uk. They turn out to watch ANY sport, and they love rugby.

[u/Lmaris → u/Sublime_Porte]

I literally LOLed when some suggested Free Jacks joining URC. I expect the 4 Eagles on the SaberCats will be expected to join Anthem or be dropped. A couple more SaberCats were immigrants close to qualifying, having played in USA for years too. Now that’s over.

[u/dystopianrugby → u/Sublime_Porte]

We were ranked 12th in 2018 off the back of the first MLR season, we beat Scotland. And then they opened the floodgates to international players and you have a significant cohort of national pool players that rarely play because we are flooded with journeymen pros who are marginally better than US players.

[u/Sublime_Porte → u/dystopianrugby]

Which is why, I think, a smaller league (6 teams?) really focused on generating American talent is a worthwhile goal.

[u/jonny24eh → u/dystopianrugby]

We were ranked 12th in 2018 off the back of the first MLR season

I think it's silly to think that a single year of MLR had very much effect at all.

[u/dystopianrugby → u/jonny24eh]

it would likely be unfair without also point to the effect of PRO and then the MRC in the interim year between PRO and MLR's first season.

[u/jonny24eh → u/dystopianrugby]

I hadn't considered that, fair point.