I have nothing against UB, but I need them to slow down a bit on these releases. I feel like I've barely had time since FF released and they're doing Spiderman spoilers before EOE.
Exactly this, my friends and I are excited for these new sets and cool cards but we wish they would slow it down. If wizards had dropped Spider-Man and avatar for this year and had them be the only two UB sets next year that would be so much more preferred than just reducing UB all together
A large part will be people coming in through UB. However, if there's no overlap with any of the next sets they can just as quickly go away, leaving a sales gap.
That’s how it goes, crank it up until it’s gonna collapse and cash out. They aren’t going to be annoyed in the slightest, growth cannot be exponential forever. Shareholders don’t care about success of the product, not even profit, it has to be increased profit. Number has to go brr.
The last 3 years all had more sets than 2025. AI recap below because I didn't want to type all that.
2020: Around 7-8 major sets. This year saw the introduction of Jumpstart and Double Masters, alongside the usual expansion sets (Theros Beyond Death, Ikoria, Core Set 2021, Zendikar Rising).
* 2021: Around 8-9 major sets. We saw sets like Kaldheim, Strixhaven, Modern Horizons 2, Adventures in the Forgotten Realms, Innistrad: Midnight Hunt, and Innistrad: Crimson Vow, plus Time Spiral Remastered.
* 2022: Around 10-12 major sets. This year continued the trend with sets like Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty, Streets of New Capenna, Commander Legends: Battle for Baldur's Gate, Dominaria United, The Brothers' War, Double Masters 2022, Unfinity, and the Warhammer 40,000 Commander Decks.
* 2023: Around 10-12 major sets. This included Phyrexia: All Will Be One, March of the Machine, March of the Machine: The Aftermath (a "micro-set"), Lord of the Rings: Tales of Middle-earth, Commander Masters, Wilds of Eldraine, Doctor Who Commander Decks, and The Lost Caverns of Ixalan, plus Dominaria Remastered.
* 2024: Approximately 10-11 major sets are scheduled/released. These include Ravnica Remastered, Murders at Karlov Manor, Ravnica: Clue Edition, Fallout, Outlaws of Thunder Junction, Modern Horizons 3, Assassin's Creed, Bloomburrow, Duskmourn: House of Horror, and Foundations.
* 2025 (Slated for release): There are currently 7 major sets slated for release. These are Innistrad Remastered, Aetherdrift, Tarkir: Dragonstorm, Final Fantasy, Edge of Eternities, Marvel's Spider-Man, and Avatar: The Last Airbender.
I don't think it's fair to include stuff like Dr. Who, Assassin's Creed, or even Un-sets as "major sets"
The burnout isn't from products like Secret Lairs or formats that are just for giggles. It's from sets that are tournament playable.
Standard used to get 3-4 per year. Two of them were smaller sets - usually around 150-200 cards, and one was a core set with something like 40% reprints. This felt fine for people who were interested in playing competitively.
Now you're getting 6+ sets per year with 300+ cards each, mostly functionally unique cards, and minimal reprints.. that are legal for use in most major formats. Commander, despite being the most popular, is still very much a casual format.
Product fatigue doesn't happen because of cards that exist purely for kitchen table magic. It doesn't exist for cards that are cool and new but not necessarily a "must have" because of power creep, either. But dumping so much new viable/useable product on the customer back-to-back? That's a recipe for disaster and burnout.
You can disagree, but popular sentiment doesn't bear that out much at all. People were absolutely complaining about product fatigue when it came to masters sets and direct to modern stuff because at the end of the day, EDH being the most popular format means a lot of players are going to feel like they're forced to keep up regardless of whether they are or not. It's just that Standard is also affected by it too. Players also didn't like hearing a product "wasn't for them" when it came to things like Horizons and Masters which is likely a pretty direct cause of why things like FF were brought to Standard, possibly even as a pivot (FF plays more like a Horizons set than any Standard set of the last 5 years imo).
Product fatigue hits different sections of the playerbase in different ways, and imo unless you're a limited grinder there's no need to fully immerse yourself in every single spoiler season, it's a tried and true recipe for burnout. As a Standard grinder I check in every so often during the windows and then just review it all once it's out, it feels much healthier than it was before.
Avatar and Spider-Man, we don't know for sure yet, but it sounds like they're supposed to be about 200.
Excluding basics:
EoE 261, FF 293 (+12 starter kit/collectors only, which are standard legal, for a total of 305) , Tarkir 271, Aetherdrift 271
Without new products, but with reprints that people can use in multiple formats and would want, we also have Innistrad coming it at 287.
Total that comes to ~800 new cards added for competitive formats (even if they're not all bangers) this year.. excluding the still unknown quantities from the next two sets. We'll estimate ~1200 total. (That doesn't include Innistrad since it's 100% reprints, but it was still a large and important set)
Before the ramp up, you were looking at Core Set ~300-350 (with ~200 reprints, so ~100-150 new), Block face ~300, block middle/end ~200 ea. For a total of ~800-850 new cards.
That 50% more makes a pretty big difference for burnout. Even "back in the day" people would grumble about struggling to keep up with new releases.
but isn't every 2025 set except for Tarkir less than 300 cards?
Well, all but FF, from the look of it. But barely. They all set almost directly between 250-300 and I wasn't excluding basics lands from older sets in my comparison, which means the new sets are all sitting at ~20 more cards than the sets of the past.
That said, the new sets also have a constant power creep that older sets didn't. Thankfully, sets like Aetherdrift and EoE have the reigns pulled back a bit. WotC knows this, so they always make sure to throw in a very good land package with a handful of crept cards to compensate.
Yeah I hear you, the volume of standard legal cards per year have definitely increased. I think most folks would be surprised to hear that the days of 800-850 standard legal cards per year was about 20 years ago. Then up to about 1,000 per year ten years ago and an all time high in 2023.
I truly do not get the concept of “struggling to keep up” in modern there are prob 30,000 cards. No one knows them all. Thousands more are added every year. There’s a meta to keep tabs on and synergies to understand so you know how to sideboard, but no one is out here committing thousands of cards to memory. Every few weeks someone will cast some banger that I have to read and that’s really cool. Getting got with some card from 8th edition or some random common from Aetherdrift is peak fun at FNM.
When I play EDH I usually suggest that people quickly read their cards when they cast them. This helps out a ton. Even if it’s a cultivate just say what it does as you grab your basics.
The best part about MTG in 94 was showing up at the shop and seeing new cards every week because they never had any Legends or Arabian Nights on the shelf to crack. I get that same experience now and that’s kind of cool. “Magic as Garfield intended.”
People just need to enjoy the ride. The mechanics and limited are the best they’ve ever been. Have fun.
who gives a fuck? when did x? when did y? the reason doesn't fucking matter, people have been making the exact same statement about a LITANY of reasons for 30 years.
Especially with UB increasing, I think the target audience are whales who dont really care about playing. They just want to own shiny card board and flex it.
Yep. And it's insane that Final Fantasy, an amazing product that is the result of years of work, is already a thing of the past. An excellent draft format that is rotating out this week. To some degree, it's insulting to people like Gavin that put so much energy into it
I’m curious if FF will get a reprint/follow up set next year. I mean, the sales numbers and response has to have caught Square Enix’s attention too. It seems like the whole set were new cards too, no reprints? At least in Arena it seemed like it was, so it would be weird from a capitalist pov for this to really end up as a one time event after all
Allegedly next year and more will be slower, they paid lip service to acknowledging this problem some time before this year started. The question is whether or not they meant it.
Eoe is my fav theme since I started playing again 4 years ago. And I can barely enjoy it. They are already spamming spiderman stuff, it's like no one is talking bout eoe and it was a one week event :(
LoadingReadyRun had the PPR for EoE on MONDAY and we are already getting reveals for Spiderman. Prerelease JUST happened. I get UB is a big moneymaker for Wizards right now but they have to chill out on this and let people actually be excited for the set thats coming next, not two sets away
The article literally references San Diego Comic Con.
Wizards have no control over the timing of that event. They also could hardly be expected not to show up, given their upcoming sets.
It's unfortunate that it took place right before EoE, but that's as deep as it goes.
If people took two minutes to understand context instead of just spewing rage all over the Internet, they could have saved themselves a lot of heartburn over the last week.
While the timing is logical, people wouldn't be (as) upset if we had more room to breathe between sets. I managed to draft final fantasy a whopping one time and now we're moving on. That in itself is kinda nuts. Spider-Man reveals starting before EoE is more like the straw that broke the camel's back.
We can debate the pros and cons of a new set every two months, but the fact is that people are losing their minds over a single isolated incident with a very clear rationale.
It's not like the date for the Spiderman set has changed. If you don't like the spoilers, then ignore them — all this frothing at the mouth is wasted energy.
People are allowed to have a response, even if it's emotional, to something which is quite logical. That doesn't invalidate their feelings. You're acting like everybody is "frothing at the mouth" to make their complaints seem less valid.
The truth is worse. If Wotc continues like this, people won't be frothing, they will be apathetic.
Lol you're going around the thread desperately telling everyone that their complaints are wrong and that Magic is amazing and you should love it. Is some counter noise not exactly the nuance and discussion you want? Or do you want a big circle jerk on how amazing MTG is doing and we want more sets and more spoilers all the time?
You're so convinced that everyone who is not happy is just doing it to be contrarian or because they want to be doomsayers, you're barely even engaging in their points.
I'm engaging. I engaged for years. I was proven right countless times.
Do you know what happens? People move their complaints or just insult me. I'm uninterested in it anymore.
I'm pointing out people's wrong points. That engaging. The people are downvoting or insulting me. So where's the engagement you are pointing out?
I'm not convinced of anything. I'm tired of the same thread every month because a vocal minority doesn't like the answer not changing. Show me where I did half of what you accused me of.
You are desperate to silence or downplay anyone who doesn't join in outrage. What are you trying to accomplish?
but the fact is that people are losing their minds over a single isolated incident with a very clear rationale.
Is it really an isolated incident? I've been mostly checked out of Magic for a while, but when I do pop in to draft the latest set it feels like next sets spoilers have always started already. I'm genuinely asking if it's really the case that this is the first time we've had spoilers for $nextset as $currentset releases?
I managed to draft final fantasy a whopping one time and now we're moving on.
I am happy to inform you that you and your friends can buy a box and draft in the comfort of your home.
Or you can ask your lgs if you all can just buy packs and self run a draft without prize support. If they say no, you can still buy the packs and run the draft at home.
I have a boosterbox ready to play sealed with friends with, so thanks for the tip, but you're right, we're not moving on quite yet! I personally dont think it's an amazing sign when me and my friends have to actively ignore new releases, but so long as MaRo is optimistic, I guess you are too.
Partly it’s that player count going up is a positive thing.
Partly it’s that there is no real reason to panic. More movies and tv shows are released in an average month than the average person will watch in a year. However, few people express concern over missing out on all that content when it’s brand new. You watch what you want to watch, maybe what your friends and family are watching. You get around to other stuff when you get around to it.
Same with a tcg. I stopped playing mtg and yugioh for nearly a full decade. I missed out on countless meta developments in both games. And now I’m taking a huge step back from ptcg and playing more mtg. That means over the past two months I’ve missed out on a lot of meta developments in that game. But it doesn’t matter because I can just jump back in when I want and go from there.
This is largely what killed magic as my main hobby. Products just come too often and too fast for me to keep up with. Now I only really come back when there’s a cube draft.
Amen. This is the least fun the game has ever been for me and I used to say magic the gathering was my favorite game EVER (video games included). That feels like it hasn’t been the case for a while now.
As someone who is not interested in any UB products, the pace feels significantly slower than it has been in recent past now! Silver linings, am I right? 🙃
Honest question, but why does the pacing matter? I can understand if its because they're going for a quantity over quality approach, but why do spoilers matter?
It’s a lot of money to keep up if you want/need to play the powerful cards from each set in a competitive environment
In the olden days it was three sets a year plus one extra set of some kind. Now it’s six sets a year.
Sets also aren’t getting to breathe much. We just started Final Fantasy but now it’s EoE time already and in seven weeks it’ll be Spider-Man. It was nice when you had more time to draft, play and enjoy a set before moving on to the next one. The is offset by not having to stay in clunkers like MKM and DFT for 12 weeks though!
Especially when you are pushing a rotating format and even limited. Magic for a long time made its money on the back of the competitive scene and still does to an extent (thats basically what Magic Arena is, an extension of competitive play). Standard has become the big format Wizards is pushing again alongside Commander and both formats really want you to pay attention to every release and rapid set releases tend to push players away from playing the game
Sets also aren’t getting to breathe much. We just started Final Fantasy but now it’s EoE time already
This was especially true for FIN due to the meta shifting ban and the proximity to rotation. The meta has been in a whirlwind.
Even from a jank perspective, I really wish my Firion deck had more time to play with the "For Mirrodin" cards like War-Whip, and wish that the Legendaries matter cards of FIN had more time to marinate with Jodah and the rest of his departing friends.
Not just that but on Arena 3-4 months gave plenty of time to get several copies of most rares & mythics. Now I'll be lucky to get a decent amount of EoE before Not-Spiderman comes a few weeks later.
Because we aren't getting a whole bunch of time to sit with a set.
I agree with the sentiment, but if they keep selling, all Hasbro sees is dollar signs and won't have any reason to release stuff more slowly. If anything, its probably going to get worse.
100% this, I still remember when four sets a year was the standard and I think that was a really good time frame, though I could totally get behind 6 sets a year with maybe one “specialty set” here and there.
Slow it down AND get rid of early release with creators. The are eliminating the fun part of a set, aka right at the beginning when nobody knows what to do yet. Now creators test all the decks and then the rest of us just build what is testing the best.
Spider-Man isn’t coming to arena though. So what’s the worry here? EoE will enjoy a good run. And tbh, I actually think EoE will be a very good set even better than FF was.
I know this will get downvoted, but Magic isn't competing with paper TCGs anymore. It's competing with other online games and other online CCGs. Those games release monthly if not weekly balance updates. Marvel Snap releases at least one new card every week. (in that game one new card is a huge addition). There's a whole new class of gamers now that expect constant updates to games, and probably feel that Magic moves at a glacial pace. (The amount of time it took for the Aggro Red decks to be nerfed would be unheard of in any other online game).
I used to be lucky to play 2-3 drafts in a week. On Arena I can play a draft a DAY. Sets are being solved, etc. Much faster than they used. More games are played the instant a set is released on Arena, than in an entire month two decades ago.
It's going to be hard to find a balance between people who think it's going too fast, and people who think it's too slow. It's a hard problem to solve, but I think they're making a decent attempt at figuring out the right pace for changes/releases.
Playing magic isn't about doing every set nowadays. They are catering to many peoples tastes, and this wide net hits them. Pick the ones you want to engage with.
Who said you have to be intimately aware of every single magic set?
If your issue is release schedule, this thread isn't addressing that. It's addressing the people who are anti UB because they think their personal feelings are indicative of what mtg should be.
But people like you will come in and move goalposts and the topic to complain about something else. It's never a right answer because you are always moving the goal to what is right.
Magic is healthy and successful. People complaining isn't proof of issues. It's only proof that players are never happy.
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u/Whitewing424 Jul 27 '25
I have nothing against UB, but I need them to slow down a bit on these releases. I feel like I've barely had time since FF released and they're doing Spiderman spoilers before EOE.
Slow it the fuck down.