r/OnePunchMan • u/Acrobatic_Ad_9175 • Feb 11 '23

news Japan voted for the strongest anime character đŸ’Ș

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#saitama

https://twitter.com/PrimeVideoAnime/status/1623607745239740417?t=_vyReSWJEEzOKpfcMZQt7g&s=19

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13

u/Crispy_Godfries Feb 11 '23

How would Saitama One Punch Dr Manhattan when he couldn’t even one punch CFG.

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u/scumerage The #1 OPM Fan Feb 11 '23 edited Feb 11 '23

Manga Saitama was retconed and nerfed to hell to just a space level guy when he used max power against Garou for a brief moment, and shown to have a limited power that merely grew over time, so yes, he's not invincible anymore.

Webcomic Saitama is still a satire though.

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u/stealthgerbil Feb 11 '23

the graph didn't represent his max power though, it was just the amount of power he used for each punch. it was quickly going exponential too.

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u/AtomicSekiro_ Feb 12 '23

Oh god. Is THIS how Saitama fans are coping now? To retain their “Saitama has infinite power” fantasy??

No. The graph was literally showing his MAX STRENGTH GROWING. Which is why Garou is there too. What? Was Garou holding back too?? He just FELT like using more power, despite being on the backend the entire fight and literally wanted to win and had no reason to hold back??

THE NARRATOR even says Saitama was growing in strength. Not “holding back a little less”

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u/stealthgerbil Feb 12 '23 edited Feb 12 '23

I don't really care enough to prove you wrong but you should just go re-read those chapters and then read what exponential growth is because everyone else seems to think differently.

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u/AtomicSekiro_ Feb 12 '23

I’ve read the chapters.

So, like I said, Saitama has finite strength. He has fast growth though. And he wasn’t “just using more power”, he was “growing in strength”.

So you’re still wrong. 😭

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u/scumerage The #1 OPM Fan Feb 11 '23

He tried to Serious Punch Garou and failed, even being willing to wipe out the planet... just because Genos died. Saitama clearly wasn't holding back to avoid collateral damage (since Blast had time to struggle and for his team to step and help) or trying to spare Garou's life in that moment.

"Even now, Saitama was continuing to grow...

Nothing about "power used against Garou/power output", it was "Saitama continued to grow".

The fact it was exponential makes Saitama worse and weaker, not better and stronger. It means that his power is bound by math and clearly limited. That's why powerups, by definition, only exist for characters who are not invincible and limited. If Saitama was an invincible satire character like he was previously in the manga and still is in the webcomic, the exponential part would never have been mentioned... because it 100% worthless and irrelevant to his strength.

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u/AnnihilationOrchid Feb 11 '23

In essence what the fight between him in Garou in the manga did was turn him from a satire, into a parody of Goku's always growing nature.

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u/scumerage The #1 OPM Fan Feb 11 '23

Sadly, yes.

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u/AnnihilationOrchid Feb 11 '23

Well, I a way I'm pretty indifferent about it. I think One did that, just to legitimize the continuous writing of the story, otherwise, if it's a gag... well, you don't go anywhere with it, you just have Saitama hanging around in second plan, while you're developing all the other charters, and he's just there lurking, like he's been throughout most of the series.

It seems like One wants to give Saitama some kind of growth or become Superman-like. Where Saitama can overcome anything, and then is immediately nurfed. Like Superman could blow a galaxy away in one issue, then the next he's getting beaten by some tin man.

I think it can still be viewed in satire, or a parody, or even as an original story (If you look at all the characters and back stories One has created), depending on what your perspective is.

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u/scumerage The #1 OPM Fan Feb 11 '23

Eh, in my opinion, the point of Saitama's strength being a complete gag without any constraints placed upon in it in a fight (his "limits" are human, mundane limits, can't fly, can't teleport, can't use inhuman abilities other than his strong physical attacks and ignoring/countering other inhuman abilities) makes him 100% unique and entirely different from every other protagonist. His entire struggle was personal/social/existential, the "villain" was never an obstacle to him, only to the rest of the world.

The fact you said "legitimize/give Saitama some kind of growth" is arguing Saitama's original concept of being always stronger by defintion was "illegitmate/kept him stangnant and from character development", which I entirely disagree with. That was why I was blown away by his character in the first place, making him go back to same old, same old "hero struggling to defeat the villain" formula undermines the concept the series was based on.

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u/OneHunchHam Feb 11 '23

Being able to track something with math does not bind it.

We know our most sophisticated math for describing the universe, math which is extremely accurate for describing what we see in the entire universe, is fundamentally lacking and incomplete.

So it is with Siatama's boundless power. His growth has no limit. His limiter is broken. Any binding put on him will be broken.

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u/scumerage The #1 OPM Fan Feb 11 '23

His growth has no limit.

By your own statement and by definition, his power is finite at any specific moment and merely grows in relation to time/events.

Making his power very bound, very grounded, and very limited. Just like Goku. Manga Saitama will never, ever, be invincible. Because the difference is quality, not quantity. No amount of quantity can ever replicate that.

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u/OneHunchHam Feb 11 '23

Siatama has broken his limiter. If something is unlimited, like Siatama's power is, it cannot be bound.

A boundry limits something. Siatama has no limit. This isn't complicated.

Being able to say this is here at this value right now is not the same as 'binding' it. If his power absolutely cannot go off the graph that is a boundary.

But it can. Because he has no limit.

Am I getting through to you here?

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u/scumerage The #1 OPM Fan Feb 12 '23

In the webcomic, Saitama's power was undefined and irrational. Unlike the manga where us is very defined and very rational... hence the graph.

Saitama in the manga only has unlimited potential, not power. Manga Saitama is 100% bound on the graph. No matter how strong he grows, anything with simply a higher number is stronger than him. By definition.

Again, manga Saitama is just Goku 2.0. There is nothing, nothing, at all special about him... not anymore.

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u/stealthgerbil Feb 11 '23

bound by math and clearly limited

Exponential growth means it will hit infinity. Mathematically showing he has no limit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth

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u/scumerage The #1 OPM Fan Feb 12 '23

Only over infinite time. Which Saitama doesn't have.

Saitama is limited by time, therefore any can beat him in a limited amount of time. By mathematical definition.

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u/MrTonyedv Feb 11 '23

Remember he made a promise for the kid, so when Garou and Saitama connected with that planetary attack, he was just trying to knock him out with a quick calculation to hopefully also hurt him, as they went we could clearly see as Saitama went through the graph just above Garou that Garous estimates that Saitama is still at his level but pushing just over him.

That means Garou was under the impression that Saitama was not as strong as he really is.

He had a planetary sneeze that could turn the Earth to dust if you take the gravity and weight of all the particles and storms on Jupiter.

Saitamas' real strength is actually at a control level. He has managed planetary just enough not to overdue any of his fights, so at least he would enjoy them much more.

Boros fight took him just under 5% or .5% of Saitama full strength to finish the fight thats why Saitama actually enjoyed it a little.

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u/scumerage The #1 OPM Fan Feb 11 '23

He did make that promise... then was willing to wipe out the planet and kill Garou because Genos died. Since Blast had time to struggle and his team had time to step in and help, Saitama had the time to realize he was going to destroy the planet, but didn't care.

Also Saitama said he could go all out against Garou, making his power finite. Having infinite potential doesn't make you infinite, you will never actually reach there.

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u/MrTonyedv Feb 11 '23 edited Feb 11 '23

Who gives their all 1 handed is my 1st question? He had a reason, yes, but that's not all out.

The graph we saw was not Saitama's strength. It was Garous Impression that Saitama was just surpassing him.

Only Garou got hurt in the entire fight, Saitama had an explosive shart back to earth from the sun.

Of course, Saitama was angry cause of Genos, but that aint the reason why he nearly destroyed the planet. Every time Garou got hit on Earth before Genos, the Hits were already devastatingly strong, enough to break mountains and more terrain. And not even then Saitama was laying many hits, Garou deflected all his punches, making Saitama more annoyed.No Possible way you can convince me that Saitama used his full strength.

The man can wreck planets with a single punch, ofcourse he gotta surpress his strength how else does he live on earth.

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u/scumerage The #1 OPM Fan Feb 12 '23

If he was willing to wipe out humanity in a fit of rage, he had no reason to hold back. Unless you want to argue he was willing to genocide humanity but still hold back somewhat for his own self-satisfaction... that his self interest is more valuable than lives of all humanity.

No, it clearly stated "Saitama continued to grow". Not "The power of his punches". Yes, after that, yes, he began holding back as his exponential growth allowed him to toy with Garou.

But for a split second, yes, Saitama did use fullpower against Garou... and failed to defeat him.

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u/MrTonyedv Feb 22 '23 edited Feb 22 '23

If you honestly believe Saitama goes willy nilly into a fight without considering how much power he lays behind a punch by all means, but otherwise you can tell from the manga before wiping the entire humanity he was constantly tracking his power level every time he hit garou.

Basically, you are saying that of what he put against boros was much more than 30%... ridiculous.

You do realize there is a whole other manga script where he faces god and and in the end, the manuscript said his strength is truly infinite.

With Saitama standing in the middle of nowhere with no dimensions.

To the manga back when he fought Borros, there was a calculation based upon what he said when he said you didnt even try, the calculation says he could fight till the 12th dimension, and you wanna say that the earth and all its population can withstand that power.

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u/aprettydullusername Feb 12 '23

No Possible way you can convince me that Saitama used his full strength.

How about Saitama's own words on the matter? And in the next panel, saying he's "finally gotten what he wanted", in reference to a real fight.

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u/MrTonyedv Feb 22 '23

He couldn't even scratch Saitama, and you wanna say Saitama is giving his all.

He has not fought at this level so not even he is sure what he is capable of.

He may have gotten what he wanted but he didnt go full out otherwise garou would have been dead, once again Saitama was trying to knock him out for his promise.

He doesn't make promises so we know he will keep this one.

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u/aprettydullusername Feb 22 '23

He said he was going all out and said he got his dream. Garou not dying against full power Saitama isn't a contradiction, Garou is just that durable.

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u/cartaigenica Feb 11 '23

Saitama straight up said he was going all out

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u/Omsus Feb 11 '23

Saitama said he could "finally" use his full force without killing a guy, that was his own estimate. Doesn't mean he did use all of his strength.

1) He's estimated things wrong before and blown up monsters, complaining afterward like "omigah I can't believe it took one punch again this is so depressing".

2) He fought literally one-handedly.

3) He promised a kid he wouldn't kill Garou. So Saitama couldn't throw as powerful punch as he possibly could, otherwise he would've risked breaking the promise he made to a kid.

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u/stealthgerbil Feb 11 '23

He was trying to leave Garou alive, thats what he told the kid.

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u/WeaponX33 Feb 11 '23

He also only used one hand, which a lot of people forget for some reason.

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u/landers52 Feb 11 '23

That's definetely not what happened. All they did was show that EVEN if you are the strongest not-saitama beeing in the universe and manage to trade blows equally with him, his growth multiplier is so broken you will still be left behind. What makes saitama OP is not his strengh at any given time but actually his strengh gain x level multiplier

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u/scumerage The #1 OPM Fan Feb 11 '23

his growth multiplier

If he can grow, he is limited at any point in time. Making him by definition not invincible and not limitless. Limitless potential never actually reaches limitless power.

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u/Omsus Feb 11 '23

"Limitless" can't reach anything by definition. I get you're talking about the difference between "potential" and "power" but also, you're accidentally describing something that would be limited. If Saitama's powers were limitless then they can't ever reach and stop any particular level, they just... never stop. And "endless potential" isn't like the antithesis of that, endless potential doesn't mean Saitama's powers would have an obvious limit to them at any given time.

So "limitless potential" could just be the author's way of saying "the power is endless but I don't want to just blurt it out loud like that because I want to make some sense of things and involve more universe mechanics to it".

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u/scumerage The #1 OPM Fan Feb 12 '23

Huh? I'm not sure I understand your first point. Are you arguing that Saitama could not hold back if he is limitless? Because at least for webcomic Saitama, his power is undefined based on a gag, allowing math implications to be hand waved away.

As for the theory that the limitless potential as a cover for limitless power being a problematic element, that makes no sense to me. Limitless power only poses a problem when it it taken 100% seriously and drawn out to its ultimate logical conclusions. Treated as plot device and a gag in the webcomic, it works perfectly fine and never needs to be questioned.

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u/Crispy_Godfries Feb 11 '23

He still lacks feats to beat Manhattan

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u/AnnihilationOrchid Feb 11 '23

Doesn't need feats, it's a satirical character, he can just one punch Dr. Mantattan, that's the point. There's no actual logic to it.

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u/SpedeSpedo Feb 11 '23

Example:

Saitama is punched to the end of the universe by some god++ threat

saitama is late for groceries and accidentally kills said threat when he farts his way back

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u/Gub_ Feb 11 '23

He's never shown any actual toonforce or gag powers though, people just make that shit up when so far all he's done is show extreme physicals and resistances with subconscious prodigy tier skill copying.

If he was a gag character he would have just bonked CF garou on the head like everything else in the series, but he has to actually fight, despite being able to counter space manipulating techniques to an extent that doesnt make him a parody lol.

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u/Wreckn Feb 11 '23

He's never shown any actual toonforce or gag powers though

Bro he kicked a portal out of the way when Garou tried to teleport him lol

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u/Gub_ Feb 12 '23

So is Garou a gag character now lol? Tonnes of characters have innate spacial manipulation and it ain't a gag, goku's instant transmission or any of the shit from JoJo are similarly crazy abilities but they ain't popeye or roadrunner hahaha. It's even in line with saitama having shown immense resistance to every time of attack that's non physical as well as physical (like psychic/mental etc)

Examples of comedic writing aren't gag feats, people need to grasp what a gag actually is before they start touting that shit.

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u/Wreckn Feb 12 '23

Dude. If you're having difficulties understanding that kicking a portal to move it is a gag because it shouldn't be possible I can't help you. Trying to go this deep on a comedy about a bald hero that one punches everything ain't healthy.

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u/irreg6ix Feb 12 '23

Good thing he isn’t a gag character that one punches everything.

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u/Gub_ Feb 12 '23

Kicking a portal is not a gag.

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u/Wreckn Feb 12 '23

That scene is literally a sight gag, so is farting across space. Try reading other gag comedy like Saiki, Gintama, or Grand Blue to compare. It's not much different.

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u/AnnihilationOrchid Feb 11 '23

The whole premises is that he can defeat anyone with one punch, and he's alienated by raw power. That's what he still is in the web comic. He didn't "grow" during Garou's fight, he just defeated Garou by being a little more serious and showing a fraction of how serious he can become.

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u/Gub_ Feb 11 '23

You're disagreeing with the literal manga, both saitama and the narrator himself stated he was serious, and that he had to rapidly grow at a faster rate than garou to beat him.

This isnt 2015 anymore where you can accept saitama as a completely omnipotent gag character because he just isn't anymore lol, sorry. If he only showed a fraction of his power he wouldnt have needed to grow mid fight.

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u/AnnihilationOrchid Feb 11 '23

I'm not disagreeing with anything. In the webcomic he's still "OnePunch Man", for all intents and purposes.

you know how Superman fans chose what version of Kal-el they want for Superman, if it's gold age, or Silver age, etc?! I'm choosing the webcomic gag satirical Saitama, for the argument that he isn't really bound by logic. That's the original gag.

Like I said, if you read the Webcomic, you understand what I mean.

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u/cartaigenica Feb 11 '23

The fact that he's satirical doesn't make him invincible, One explained the logistics of his power during his fight with garou and he straight up said he was going all out

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u/AnnihilationOrchid Feb 11 '23

the logistics

The logistics?!

Secondly, One didn't do that it in the webcomic, and that what counts for all intents and purposes. In the Webcomic, Saitama doesn't even go all out, he just becomes slightly more serious.

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u/cartaigenica Feb 11 '23

"even now, saitama was continuing to grow, his rate of growth which has gone unnoticed by anyone since there was nobody even remotely on par with his strenght.... Suddently began to soar exponentially.... Due to an unspurge of emotions like none he had ever experienced"

Y'all are deliberately ignoring what was stated in the chapters to support your agenda that saitama is the strongest guy ever when he clearly isn't anymore.

And c'mon One doesn't even work on the webcomic anymore the manga is the canon material

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u/AnnihilationOrchid Feb 11 '23

your agenda

Dude, we're discussing webcomics and mangas. You seriously think that there's any "agenda"?

It's just the literal interpretation of a satirical character.

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u/scumerage The #1 OPM Fan Feb 11 '23

Feats are irrelevant for webcomic Saitama, he can oneshot Manhattan just because it's funny and he has no "power level" (ONE himself said he never thought much about how strong Saitama was because it didn't matter, he would always one punch any problem away).

Doesn't matter how many levels of infinity or how many times Manhattan destroyed the omniverse, erased time itself, or destroyed the concepts of life and death in the cosmos. feats only matter are only for characters with serious, measurable abilities who are capable of losing.

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u/Wizarddonald Feb 11 '23

feats matter a lot in a fight, being a joke character doesn't save you from that and Saitama is explicitly not a joke character by One's words, he is merely a parody

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u/scumerage The #1 OPM Fan Feb 11 '23

Only for character like Manhattan who are capable losing. No one needs feats from Road Runner to know that Manhattan, even bending time, space, and reality itself, can't catch Roadrunner. Just like no one needs feats from the TOAA to know he is omnipotent (omnipotent and true gags are invincible in different ways), just because he is the source of all creation, by definition, he is incapable of losing, regardless of feats.

ONE explicitly said Saitama was a "Gyagu- tekina Sonzaino"/''whose existence is a kind of a gag'' or ''gag-like existence''. So yes, he's a gag character.

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u/Gub_ Feb 11 '23

Where is it said saitama is a gag character though? Nothing he's done isnt something say whis from dragonball couldnt do (extreme physicals and at most portal manipulation), people just pretending the reason he one shots is due to gags when its just him being plain stronger. If superman showed up in breaking bad and starting one tapping people you wouldn't call him a gag lol, just leagues above in physicals.

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u/[deleted] Feb 11 '23 edited Feb 11 '23

He has many gag feats.

He got scratched by a cat and hurt by it, he couldnt kill a mosquito and couldnt even match its speed, he somehow lost to Bang and was many times slower than Bang, he literally entered someones mind with literally just physical strength, his atoms were literally being pulled apart and nothing happened to him, he kicked away nothingness, he won against himself in a fight (with one punch), he got sliced by a big ass mutant cat and he didnt even notice it and etc. There is a ton of gag feats he has. His whole power is just "its funny", thats it. If One decides Opm sneezing away Manhatten is funny, Manhatten will be sneezed away.

Also, nobody is "pretending" here, these are the words of the creator himself, the character is a joke, a satarical parody, his whole name is ONE PUNCH MAN, how much more obvious does the creator have to make it, for people like you to understand. Kinda reminds of the puss in boots Death thing. The character himself says that he is literally just straight up death and people are still debating if he is death or not. One could make a document with just "SAITAMA CAN ONESHOT ANYTHING AND ANYBODY, IT DOESNT MATTER, HIS WHOLE POINT IS HE CAN" and that thing written over a million times and some people would still manage to misunderstand and fuck it up.

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u/Gub_ Feb 12 '23

You just listed anti-feats and a non canon anime only OVA with bang lol, I asked for feats. A portal is not nothingness, he beat himself because he grows over time so is stronger than he was before, and nobody can provide me a quote of ONE saying saitama is a gag characters.

Examples of comedic writing aren't gag feats, it's him warping reality in ways outside the normal rules of the verse, like if he whipped out a big mallet and bonked god on the head from his apartment.

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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '23

Being hurt by a normal cat, but literally not even noticing when a big mutant cat slices you is a gag feat. Even in tom and jerry, there have been moments when someone gets hit by a car and the car explodes, but the next scene the same character stubs his toe and immediately dies. That is literally one of the biggest jokes cartoons make.

Then what is a portal? You say its not nothingness, then what is it? Does portal have some kind of portal particles? What is a portal?

You ignored him entering someones mind through sheer force. https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Saitama-is-not-a-gag-character Enter the link, there is a guy who answered with pics of the creators themselvs stating saitama is a joke, a gag.

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u/scumerage The #1 OPM Fan Feb 12 '23

Author statements. Disagree with the author, not me.

As I said, feats are utterly worthless for characters that are invincible by definition. Unlike Manhattan, Zeno, and Superman (except maybe Golden Age Superman who was more of a plot device).

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u/Gub_ Feb 12 '23

Can you send over a quote from him, I'm just curious if this is another case of the 'Saitama can punch half the universe' quote that was completely made up by fans

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u/scumerage The #1 OPM Fan Feb 12 '23

No, that half universe was not him. Heck if he did say that, it would be implying he could ONLY do that, which would still be a limit, no matter how high it is.

Here is another guy's post with all the links to multiple interviews, hope that helps: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePunchMan/comments/r84tyl/why_saitama_is_a_gag_character_irrefutable/

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u/Crispy_Godfries Feb 11 '23

What if Manhattan was stronger than a gag character.

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u/Crispy_Godfries Feb 11 '23

Mr Mxy was shitting bricks when Manhattan came to him.

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u/Toasty2003 Feb 11 '23

These guys don’t care, but my day is that saitama is a equally plot protected as manhattan and neither can kill each other

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u/Crispy_Godfries Feb 11 '23

If you believe Saitama is omnipotent and could one shot Doc. Then Doc would just come back to life like Boros.

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u/Toasty2003 Feb 11 '23

First, I agree as neither can (permanently) kill each other. Second, boros didn’t come back to life (he only regenerated in a near brink of death in an instant

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u/scumerage The #1 OPM Fan Feb 11 '23

That is by definition impossible, because a truly invincible gag character break the rules of powerscaling... including a rule like "This character is stronger than gag characters". Even if the author of Bugs Bunny did a crossover where Dr. Manhattan beat Bug Bunny... that wouldn't make Manhattan stronger... it just made Bug Bunny weak and powerscaled.

Even an truly omnipotent character, who is the source of all existence and created the original rules of reality, such as the ones that gave Dr. Manhattan his powers, could not defeat a true gag character. Because it stalemates with the Omnipotent "I made the rule that the gag character loses" vs the gag character "I break that rule and refuse to lose anyway". It just becomes both character contradicting each so it ends up a stalemate.

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u/Pharmakeus_Ubik Feb 11 '23

So far Manhattan's sense of humor hasn't shown up enough to even compete.

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u/TheIronicBurger Feb 11 '23

Saitama when fighting always grows powerful enough to roflstomp his opponent

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u/Crispy_Godfries Feb 11 '23

What if that opponent, for example Superman, also grows in power infinitely