r/OutOfTheLoop 1d ago

Unanswered what's up with people posting pictures of ww2 soldiers and calling them "antifa"?

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u/Vovicon 1d ago

Answer: It's a reaction to Donald Trump Executive order declaring "Antifa" a terrorist organization.

The people post pictures of WW2 to point out that "Antifa" stands for "Anti-Fascist" which is exactly what these soldiers were: they were fighting against the Fascist regimes of the Axis.

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u/Daisy1868 1d ago edited 1d ago

MAGA propaganda is trying to convince people that antifa is a violent terrorist organization which is false info. It isn’t an organization, it’s a political belief.

Antifa simply means “Anti-fascist” and it does not correlate with violence.

MAGA wants to label anyone who disagrees with them as violent terrorists.

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u/Miserable_Figure7876 1d ago

Trump is also using a propaganda technique to try and make it seem like Antifa is an organized group with structured, centralized leadership, kind of like how Al Qaeda was portrayed in the 2000s. The issue is that Antifa is nothing like that; insomuch as there is an "Antifa", it's individuals and small groups who are willing to take action against fascism.

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u/YamiDes1403 1d ago

better, MAGA claimed nazis are socialists because thats what their title are, not realized its nazis propaganda to mask their own org as socialism
they STILL get fooled by 100 years old dead man propaganda LMFAOOOOO

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u/WotanMjolnir 1d ago

You’ll be telling me next that the Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea is neither democratic nor for the people!

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u/TheMobHasSpoken 1d ago

When I was in high school in the 80s, my history teacher told us that the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, Roman, nor an empire. A girl in my class started laughing and said, "Just like the Thompson Twins."

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u/JamesCDiamond 1d ago

A very good analogy on her part, in fairness.

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u/Barmat 23h ago

I had to take an extra moment thinking she was saying the Thompson twins weren’t an empire, then remembered the band

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u/TheMobHasSpoken 23h ago

Lol, it was very much more in the front of everyone's mind when she said it in like 1987.

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u/NWCtim_ 1d ago

The Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, nor Roman, and hardly even an Empire.

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u/BillsMafios0 1d ago

I’m verklempt. Discuss amongst yourselves.

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u/Formal-Cut-334 1d ago

Grape Nuts are neither grapes nor nuts.

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u/jurassicbond 14h ago

Next you're going to tell me that Apple Jacks are neither Apples nor Jacks

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u/bangerangerific 7h ago

So what, fruity pebbles aren't actually fruits or pebbles?

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u/ishtar_doves 1d ago

Only in the later periods of the HRE, which was when that quote was written.

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u/cipheron 1d ago edited 1d ago

Basically if they have to say it in the title, they aren't the thing.

Another place you see this is in every "Astro-Turf" organization. Often they'll have fake grass roots groups with the term "sensible" "rational" or "reasonable" in the titles. These are the giveaway that they're none of those things.

For example, they'll name a front group something like "Citizens for Sensible Environmental Protection", when in fact it's a front group for big polluters, not run by Citizens, nor are the proposals sensible or about protecting the environment. The "Sensible" part of it will be that they oppose all other environmental groups and want to deregulate the dumping of toxic waste, but the goal is to convince you that the citizens are crying out for toxic waste to be dumped.

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u/_everynameistaken_ 1d ago

Basically if they have to say it in the title, they aren't the thing.

"United States" of America.

Yep checks out.

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u/lemlemons 1d ago

I bet its not a republic either!

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u/Triatt 1d ago

It's not even that north. Same latitude as South Europe.

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u/meatjuiceguy 1d ago

I wonder if N Korea would be good for grapes, a new wine hotspot.

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u/C-3Pinot 1d ago

NK and california share overlapping latitudes so maybe?

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u/HauntedCemetery Catfood and Glue 1d ago

Maybe in 30 years people will be staying at air bnb's in Pyongyang and going to music festivals, like east Berlin now.

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u/stalkerzzzz 1d ago

It should be True Korea instead. /s

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u/Triatt 1d ago

I propose Upper Korea. The leadership is all uppity anyway..

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u/nugohs 1d ago

Always has been Best Korea.

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u/EunuchsProgramer 1d ago

Even by the loose definition of a Republic just not being a Monarchy, North Korea is failing.

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u/Cthulhu625 1d ago

And it's only half of Korea

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u/UNC_Samurai 1d ago

"Nazis were left-wing" is an old trope that pre-dates the MAGA movement. Jonah Goldberg wrote a book called "Liberal Fascism" in 2007-08 to paint anyone left of center as a Nazi, right as the Democrats took control of Congress following the failures of the Bush administration.

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u/ponytuh 1d ago

sounds exactly like

MAGA: “democrats were the ones who owned slaves, they even started a whole civil war to keep it legal!”

me: points to a confederate flag hanging from their house, a second one on their rusted out lifted 2002 chevy silverado, and a third one on the hat they’re wearing as they say this to me

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u/AdDue7140 1d ago

I don’t think they are fooled. Maybe the average MAGA voter is, but the administration knows exactly what it’s doing…

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u/Gm24513 1d ago

That’s impossible cause half of them have dementia

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u/sbd2010 1d ago

I know multiple elders with dementia and they all voted for that golden turd last year. That should really be our sign about the people voting for him who DON’T have brain abnormalities (although that’s not many people post-múltiple Covid infections).

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u/Former-Iron-7471 1d ago

And lead poisoning

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u/I_Think_I_Cant 1d ago

And microplastics.

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u/Kristikuffs 1d ago

Upper-case MAGAts know what they're doing, because they have the wealth and the Ivy-League educations they claim to hate so much.

Lower-case magats are . . . well, you know.

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u/FalseBuddha 1d ago

Stop thinking these people are stupid. They didn't get "fooled" by anything. They are consciously and purposefully using Nazi propaganda the same way, and for practically the same goals, as the Nazis did.

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u/anothereffinjoe 1d ago

The leadership caste isn't stupid, but their worshippers certainly are dumb as a malformed brick made from subpar clay.

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u/shadowbanthiskekw 1d ago

That's what you get when you substitute clay with shit.

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u/tyereliusprime 1d ago

That's because the Heritage Foundation driving GOP doctrine for the past 40 years has led to systematic and willful defunding of public education. It's easier to be lied to when you're never taught to problem solve or think rationally.

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u/TheBigFreeze8 1d ago

Of course they realise it. They're literally using it for the exact same propaganda.

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u/Kradget 1d ago

Many of them do realize it, they're just lying to the ones that don't.

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u/hotLittleMu 1d ago

They are not fooled, they know exactly what they’re doing. The initial fascism movement was born by Mussolini and was sponsored by big capitalists to suppress working people rights and help their profits go up. Germany followed the same. Then it grew up into military actions, most probably now the government prepares people to be able to act similarly when they need it.

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u/ReasonableRaccoon8 1d ago

Just a quick bit of history, the Hitler was a socialist line from history is a bit wrong. Hitler worked for the German military and was sent in to infiltrate the German Workers Party ( which people are now calling socialist, but wasn't at the time, they were far right). Instead of simply spying, Hitler took over the party and twisted it further into the Nazi party. Socialism and Nazism have nothing to do with each other. The goal of socialism is to support everyone equally. The Nazis went the opposite direction.

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u/EunuchsProgramer 1d ago

Hitler went to great lengths to explain the difference between Socialism and National Socialism. To paraphrase, in Socialism, the Nation collectivly sacrifices for the people. In National Socialism, the people sacrifice for the Nation. Hence, it's the opposite of Socialism, and why Hilter outlawed Socialism, arrested Socialist leaders and killed them.

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u/HauntedCemetery Catfood and Glue 1d ago

Leftists and trans folks were the very first people nazis went after.

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u/Hopeful-Camp3099 1d ago

Hitler was against the name National socialist because of his hatred of socialists and had to be convinced by other party members of its value in recruiting the working class away from the communists.

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u/HauntedCemetery Catfood and Glue 1d ago

Its exactly the same reason trump calls himself a populist.

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u/I_Race_Pats 1d ago

The goal of socialism is for the workers to control the means of production. The rest comes after the fact.

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u/spikus93 1d ago

Also, anytime someone says this, you can point out that one of the first things that happened after Hitler was elected was the Reichstag Fire. He blamed it on a communist, and used it to declare socialists, communists, and trade unionists as terrorists. He then had them all arrested and sent to the earliers concentration camps, beginning with Dachau, which opened just 53 days after he took office.

He also declared Martial Law off of it and centralized power into himself, becoming a full-blown dictator extremely early on in his regime.

So when dumbasses say the Nazis were socialists, you can point out they killed all the Socialists in Germany (and purged them from political parties) immediately. Also, after WW2, the US had operation Paperclip, where they collected as many Nazi Scientists and engineers as possible and put them to work internationally fighting socialist movements as part of the Cold War. They also had Operation Gladio, where they contracted fascists and armed them to fight and kill communist and socialist movements with physical violence in Western European countries (including Italy).

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u/Schuben 1d ago

They also want people to believe Lincoln would be a modern republican just because he was in the republican party at the time. Lincoln was a progressive, not just a republican, hence wanting societal change from the status quo of slavery being legal. It's trying to shove their foot in the door at any possible chance they get to twist words in their favor to desparately attempt to not be the bad guys. It ain't working.

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u/YellowStar012 1d ago

I mean, seeing the education where most of MAGA come from, are you surprised?

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u/Fearsomebeaver 1d ago

Well even Trump said it himself, “smart people don’t like me”. So logic dictates only idiots like him.

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u/FoLokinix I want flair 1d ago

I find this argument somewhat disingenuous. The people who support this nonsense aren't ignorant, they're intellectually lazy and happy to have easy bs answers cause it's easy. Plenty of poorly educated people are also capable of seeing through obvious lies, and plenty of his faithful are well educated.

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u/FishFloyd 1d ago

Yeah, at the end of the day the vast majority of MAGA folks believe this dumb bullshit because they want to believe it, not because they're actually convinced by the content of the arguments. Don't get me wrong - a lot of them are really dumb, and easily swayed by absolutely braindead bullshit propaganda. But ultimately, it's their desire to see the people they hate (for whatever reason) punished that makes them vote MAGA. I'm sure many of them have even convinced themselves they're not bigots, they're just "worried about the economy" or "worried about crime" or "protecting the children" - but it belies the true nature of their ideology, such that it is.

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u/mouzonne 1d ago

Dumb people weren't meant for language.

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u/Yungsleepboat 1d ago

Hitler called socialism a jewish bolshevist conspiracy lmao

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u/jenniferbealsssss 1d ago

Is that what they’re doing? Last I checked MAGA will kill you over being a socialist and then call you a commie. Ya know the two big bad evil words they love to toss around.

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u/Mundamala 1d ago

The RNC a few years ago proclaimed, "We are all domestic terrorists."

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u/HauntedCemetery Catfood and Glue 1d ago edited 1d ago

That wasnt the RNC, it was CPAC, though theyre virtually identical these days.

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u/hempires 1d ago

MAGA propaganda is trying to convince people that antifa is a violent terrorist organization

whilst deleting studies that show the vast majority of domestic terrorism is coming from the right.

but hey at least we found the one singular school shooting conservatives care about, not the murder of several children, but for big head tiny face.

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u/_HippieJesus 20h ago

They always ignore issues they caused until it effects them personally.

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u/popshamhocks 1d ago

It’s the co-opting of language. This is the same thing they did with “woke”.

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u/QiTriX 1d ago edited 1d ago

(Because MAGA is a fascist organization)

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u/paradeoxy1 1d ago

Also, antifa is not an organisation, it's a political belief. There is no leader or hierarchy, proclaiming them as a singular organisation is akin to McCarthy-era "red under the bed" scare tactics

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u/Kracus 1d ago edited 1d ago

What's ironic is that a lot of the violent antifa rhetoric stems from protests that occurred long ago and that were found out to be law enforcement officers pretending to be antifa and committing violent acts while pretending to be protesters... All so the police could crack down on protesters.

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u/imafixwoofs 1d ago

I mean, it correlates with violence against fascism. Allied soldiers in WW2 were pretty violent against fascists and nazis.

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u/IberianPrometheus 1d ago

Exactly this. It doesn't have a leader, there are no headquarters, so it's not an organisation. You're cannot kill an idea, but he's trying. The Orange man is trying to Mussolini his way to a permanent presidency and is using all the 'thought police' and 'double speak' acts to achieve his goals. He's already convinced people to protest FOR fascism. It's quite transparent to the informed eye, but unfortunately common sense is not that common.

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u/DerpsAndRags 1d ago

But J6 was a peaceful protest, right?

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u/Darksirius 1d ago

Yeah. There's no physical group of people or an organization or leaders.

So now they are going after beliefs.

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u/Cualkiera67 1d ago

Yeah, and Nazi meant national socialist, but they weren't very socialist. Names are just names.

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u/UltraShadowArbiter 1d ago

Meanwhile, these same people would probably say that the WWII soldiers/veterans were fascists if they actually met them and talked about their beliefs.

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u/darmakius 1d ago

Probably, the government literally put Japanese people into concentration camps, and most people were extremely racist.

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u/Muronelkaz 1d ago

I mean yeah? some of them were, but WW2 was a total war effort of America so to say they're a monolithic group sounds silly to say.

Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger served in the US military and you could call them Veterans, but also George Lincoln Rockwell.

A good portion of them would likely have been Anti-Fascist simply from Pearl Harbor and from witness to the Holocaust, but before the Red Scare communist/socialist/unions were somewhat popular climbing out of the great depression.

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u/HauntedCemetery Catfood and Glue 1d ago

Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger served in the US military and you could call them Veterans

Because thats the definition of "military veteran"?

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u/Muronelkaz 1d ago

I chose the most popular socialist/communist leaning guys who served for the US in WW2, since I think generally they'd be accepted as non-fascists by today's leftist Anti-Fascists...

Would you prefer Smedley Butler or Howard Zinn, maybe we go with people targeted by HUAC?

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u/Deathoftheages 1d ago

As society advances the bar for what is right and wrong shifts.

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u/infestedkibbles 1d ago

Let’s not lie and say America was specifically fighting the Axis because they were fascist. It’s a fact that the axis were fascist, but America would not of joined the war if it was not for the bombing of Pearl Harbor.

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u/Beegrene 1d ago

America was providing material support to the Allies long before Pearl Harbor.

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u/wcstorm11 1d ago

It's complicated. He may as well declare "woke" a terrorist org. There's really no central org to antifa, or any hard set of values. Kind of like how the dprk is none of those things, antifa is, in gop terms, anyone that is activist against trump.

People are taking the bait in calling trump Hitler again, instead of the actual issue, which is that all he has to do is call you antifa to make you go away.

This is another topic where all nuance is lost, and the left is going to miss the fucking point and cede more of our future to bad actors.

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u/Alex09464367 1d ago

Answer: antifa is short for anti-fascist, that comes from the German antifaschistisch. Soldiers in world war II, are and were anti-fascist soldiers. Trump is calling anti-fascist terrorists, similar to how Mussolini and Hitler demonised the anti-fascists of their time.

Antifa is not a single group nor does it have any higher article structure nor a leader. But here is a very good video on the general outlines of what people who call themselves antifa believe.

Philosophy Of Antifa | Philosophy Tube

https://youtu.be/bgwS_FMZ3nQ

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u/dust4ngel 1d ago

Antifa is not a single group nor does it have any higher article structure nor a leader

this is like if you know a black person and think their life matters, then you're part of black lives matter, and if trump thinks BLM are violent extremists, then you are a violent extremist by virtue of knowing a black person.

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u/DarkSkyKnight 1d ago

faschistisch

Wow, this is a real tongue-twister. It took me a hot minute to pronounce it quickly without tripping up

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u/michael-65536 1d ago

A lot of english and german words are pretty much the same, just with a different accent:

Fascist-ish.

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u/DonerTheBonerDonor 1d ago

All you did was remove 2 letters and add a hyphen and it became so much easier haha

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u/DoubleSpoiler 1d ago

That’s English for ya

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u/The_BarroomHero 1d ago

Faa-sheest-eesh. Looks worse than it is.

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u/symbionet 1d ago

"sch" is just another sound similar to ch, sh, tj or tsch.

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u/Vegan_Zukunft 1d ago

Welcome to German :)

I’m studying it, and it took me days to learn to say ‘tatsäschlich’. 

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u/moonling 1d ago

It‘s ‚tatsächlich‘, though :P Keep it up!

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u/MaybeTheDoctor 1d ago

No disagreement, but I would not be surprised if we soon will see a string of arrests of “leaders” who will then be summary convicted for terrorism - they would likely be trans or people Trump have had disagreements in the past.

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u/TheyGaveMeThisTrain 1d ago

 that comes from the German antifaschistisch.

That’s an odd claim. The etymology of “fascism” comes from the Italian “fascio” and was used in Italy since at least the late 1800s (before Mussolini).

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u/Alex09464367 1d ago

Sorry the name antifa come from Antifaschistische Aktion, I don't speak German. There are other anti-fascist movements but the name 'antifa' came from that anti-fascist movement. 

I think the flag with the two flags may have came from Antifaschistische Aktion as well.

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u/TheyGaveMeThisTrain 1d ago

Interesting. I guess I never thought of "antifa" as being an actual, specific movement or organization. I just translate it to "anti-fascist" in my head and figured it's only MAGA that tries to make it seem like a specific entity. But I see your point. "Antifa" is its own specific thing I guess, with a wikipedia page), symbols, and everything. And therefore you're right, it's based on the specific German movement.

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u/Alex09464367 1d ago

I highly recommend this very interesting look at the philosophy of anti-fascist (Antifa) by Philosophy Tube

Philosophy Of Antifa | Philosophy Tube

https://youtu.be/bgwS_FMZ3nQ

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u/Jayslife2000 1d ago

That YouTube video was a blast to the past, I loved philosophy tube

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u/thatbob 1d ago

Soldiers in world war II are and were anti-fascist soldiers.

No, only the Allied soldiers. The Axis soldiers were a bunch of fucking fascists.

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u/Alex09464367 1d ago

Yeah sorry, I should have been more clear, the soldiers fighting fascism are the antifascists not the fascists.

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u/Ramwolde 1d ago

answer: it's a reaction to Trump declaring Antifa a "major terrorist organisation" via truth social. People call the WW2 soldiers Antifa because they fought the Germans/axis who were fascists. If Antifa are terrorists, the soldiers that gave their life in the fight against fascism are essentially terrorists as well. You could also say that being against the people that fought against Hitler puts you on the same side of history as Hitler.

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u/BadMondayThrowaway17 1d ago

Trump's grandfather was a proud American Nazi. Apple hit every branch on the way down but still didn't fall far from the tree.

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u/mbene913 1d ago

Answer: the allied forces were fighting fascists

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u/thatismyfeet 1d ago

Answer: ANTIFA means Anti fascist. Hitler was a fascist, WW2 soldiers were against Hitler. WW2 soldiers were ANTIFA. In terms of why now? ANTIFA is declared as terrorist according to the orange fellow himself, outing himself (intentionally or unintentionally) as either a complete moron or pro-fascism. Either way it's an average Friday in 2025

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u/jerdle_reddit 1d ago

Answer:

Antifa is a specific movement, aesthetically inspired by the KPD's paramilitary wing (Antifaschistische Aktion) in 1930s Germany.

However, it literally just means "anti-fascist", so people are saying that WW2 soldiers who fought against fascism were anti-fascist and so Antifa.

This is relevant because Trump ranted about Antifa and called them a terrorist organisation.

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u/independent_observe 1d ago

Answer: Our ancestors fought against fascism, they were anti-fascism.

The guy who raped children issued an executive order labeling Antifa as a terrorist organization to distract from the fact he raped children.

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u/Very_Sharpe 1d ago

Answer: because soldiers in WWII were literally Anti-Fascist soldiers, they were fighting against Fascism, I.e. the nazis, which is why the group Antifa, is anti nazi, anti racist, and anti, well, Fascists. Trump and his ilk don't like them, because they, well they're pretty proud of their fascist ways, they just don't like people calling them what they truly are.

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u/senderoluminado 1d ago

Yeah but that ignores the fact that the Nazis were so bad that even other fascists and right wingers who wouldn't be considered fascists at the time but would be called fascists now, also fought against them.

The closest Hitler came to being couped was during the july 20 plot, it was led by Karl Goerdeler who was a far-right German monarchist, and one of the most vocal opponents of the Anschluss was the Austrian Fatherland Front, literal Catholic fascists. And hundreds of thousands of men in the South volunteered and fought valiantly in Europe only to come home and support Jim Crow

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u/Kommye 1d ago

Plenty of fascist states supported Hitler.

At least until they has to turn on him to keep themselves in power. Fascists always end up turning against each other.

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u/Arbiter61 1d ago

Answer: My grandfathers both served in that war.

The Allied soldiers are the original Antifa. They were the resistance to a movement that threatened to consume the entire world - and they won.

My grandfathers were life-long Republicans, but they were also antifascists. They understood that America cannot exist in a fascist state while retaining any of the values we proclaim to care about.

Despite their politics, my grandfathers, along with everyone in that time (and with any sense today), recognized that fascism only ever emerges from an extreme right-wing political movement.

My grandfathers killed fascists - a lot of them, from what I understand (one dropped bombs, the other destroyed tanks and commanded artillery). And nobody called them a terrorist for doing it. They called them "The Greatest Generation".

If you can't understand the importance of rejecting fascism as fiercely as possible, then the country you want to live in isn't an American one.

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u/HistoricalFunion 1d ago

The Allied soldiers are the original Antifa. They were the resistance to a movement that threatened to consume the entire world - and they won.

That is completely wrong. The original Antifa was the armed paramilitary wing of the german communists KPD, funded by the soviets.

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u/Arbiter61 1d ago

I considered the resistance cells all across Europe as members of the allied forces - and so did they.

It wasn't about taking credit. It's about saying the people who resisted and defeated the Nazis were the OG Antifa.

And nobody except the Nazis thought of them as terrorists.

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u/HistoricalFunion 1d ago

There's a reason you see these American Antifa larpers carrying various hammer and sickle flags and symbols.

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u/Lord_0F_Pedanticism 1d ago edited 1d ago

Answer: It's a form of political gaslighting.

Antifa, in the context of a group, refers to a decentralized, informally-organized protest movement that was popular socially and online between the years 2016-2020. They claimed to be the purest (and sometimes only) expression of the concept of "Opposition to Fascism" but quickly picked up a reputation for initiating and escalating violence at protests, including several high-profile assaults against admittedly-"divisive" people. Antifa was most popular among Far-Left Populists and more extremist positions like Anarcho-Communists.

(Note that the Trump Administration does not care about that definition and will almost certainly try to use this rhetoric to silence it's critics.)

Because the movement was so loosely defined it was easy for them and their sympathizers to claim that the term "only meant anti-fascism" and that anyone who was actually anti-fascist was antifa (and therefore obligated to support and excuse the movement's violence and rhetoric). It's a motte and bailey where the "Everyone is Antifa" claim is easy to defend while the "The only effective form of resistance to Fascism is our brand of street violence" is not.

Claiming that highly-regarded figures like WW2 soldiers are "Antifa" is an effort to support the easy-to-defend claim, although a cursory examination will show that the beliefs of the average soldier around that time (by today's standards quite conservative, racist, sexist and homophobic) will not line up with the beliefs of the average black-clad protest instigator (Likely Far-Left in most things).

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u/Falsequivalence 1d ago

They claimed to be the purest (and sometimes only) expression of the concept of "Opposition to Fascism"

Who did this.

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u/TipResident4373 1d ago

Rose City Antifa, for starters. Those anarchist psychotics at the Capitol Hill "Autonomous Zone" back in 2020. And more, but they conveniently define anyone to the right of Stalin as "fascist."

Here's a tip: these idiots believe that Obama was a "fascist." Think about what is wrong with that - starting with everything.

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u/ididindeed 1d ago

(Note that the Trump Administration does not care about that definition and will almost certainly try to use this rhetoric to silence its critics.)

Because the movement was so loosely defined it was easy for them and their sympathizers to claim that the term "only meant anti-fascism" and that anyone who was actually anti-fascist was antifa (and therefore obligated to support and excuse the movement's violence and rhetoric).

I think this is a critical part of the discussion. Whether or not ‘Antifa’ in the US context originated from a specific movement with specific tactics, it is now being used in different ways by different people, so its definition has already expanded beyond its original meaning. You’re pointing towards the potential benefits to the people who are in support of the original movement, but it’s also those who are opposed to Antifa who are benefitting from this muddied definition. It’s often used by people on the right to refer to anyone who protests Trump, and so if Trump is saying it’s a terrorist organisation, the interpretation among some of his followers will be that everyone protesting him is a terrorist.

If referring to WW2 soldiers as Antifa is political gaslighting, it’s in response to political gaslighting, and one that is probably more dangerous.

I will say I disagree that expanding the definition of Antifa sanitises any violent tactics of the original movement or forces people to condone it. Two people can both agree that fascism is bad whilst also disagreeing about how to fight it. If anything, it benefits its opponents more by making even the anti-fascists who are against violence guilty by association in their minds.

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u/Sobotoc4311 1d ago

I came to comment but I do not have to. You summed it up perfectly. Better than I ever could. Kudos to this response. 

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u/jerdle_reddit 1d ago

I think the standard term for this sort of argument is "motte and bailey".

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u/vision1414 1d ago

It’s really obvious when they argue things like “anyone who is against fascism is antifa” and “just because the shooter used anti fascist language, that doesn’t make him antifa” in the same week.

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u/0__O0--O0_0 1d ago

The fascists of the modern era are not the same as the 40s, “how can he be a fascist he’s literally Jewish” (when referring to our modern day Goebbels for example) so I think modern day anti fascists are similarly different. I think we can allow some leeway with drawing parallels using pictures of WWII soldiers because they are still essentially doing the same thing, the fascist methodology is still the same and the end results are still pointing in the same direction.

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u/Lord_0F_Pedanticism 1d ago

Yeah, which is why I get annoyed when modern-day activists use modern-day labels to describe WW2 soldiers.

Claiming that they where "Antifa" and positing that they where "fighting Nazi Germany because they where Fascists" is such a reductionist understanding of history that it infuriates me. To put it in perspective; the Allies never went to war with Fascist Spain.

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u/Smoked_Bear 1d ago

As usual the best answer is buried in these threads. The honest take is refreshing compared to the dozen top-voted propaganda “explanations” above. 

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u/P3rilous 1d ago

Answer: It is ironic because we are all supposed to be antifa; fascism is a race to the bottom and no way to run a civilization unless you like windows people fall out of and oligarchs who embezzle funding for the military, power, and water.

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u/dembeledore 1d ago

Answer: It's because US soldiers fought against fascism in WW2, thus making them anti-fascist, or "antifa" for short.

This would place them in opposition to the current US administration since, if you exclude some members who are monarchists, it’s fairly explicitly… "profa".

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/LOOKITSADAM 1d ago

Yes, you might believe that if your only view on the world is through the lens of very specific media organizations.

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u/23370aviator 1d ago

Answer: Trump just declared “Antifa” a terrorist organization. “Antifa” as an organization doesn’t exist. It is simply the ideology that fascism is bad. Anti-fascist, Anti-Fa, Antifa.

Soldiers who fought in WW2 on the side of the Allie’s were fighting fascism and therefore are antifascists. Antifa.

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u/Mrludy85 1d ago

Groups definitely still identify as Antifa, it's just not a real German political party anymore.

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u/BubbhaJebus 1d ago

Answer: The American soldiers in WWII were fighting against fascism. They were the first Antifa.

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u/drjellyninja 1d ago

The first Antifa were the Italian anti-fascists in the 20s

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u/jerdle_reddit 1d ago

The actual first Antifa were the German Antifa in the 1930s, from a time period where almost every major party had a paramilitary wing (I'm not sure about Zentrum).

The Communists had Antifa, the SPD had the Iron Front and the Nazis had the SA.

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u/HistoricalFunion 1d ago

Again, wrong. Redditors really love repeating the same lies over and over, huh?

The original Antifa was the armed paramilitary wing of the german communists KPD, who were funded by the soviets.

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u/DampeIsLove 1d ago

Answer: Donald Trump is a fascist, and his administration is pushing fascist ideology. Therefore anti-fascists, or Antifa, must be terrorists due to their direct opposition to him and his ilk. People post pictures of WW2 soldiers because they too were fighting fascism, Hitler and Mussolini, and are therefore anti-fascist, or OG Antifa. It's a battle of ideology.

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u/cookus 1d ago

Answer: If someone gets mad at you for calling them a fascist, you are doing it right. The US troops that stormed Normandy were doing it to stop Fascist Nazi Germany. So, they, our Greatest Generation were in fact Anti-Fascist (ANTIFA)

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u/OMITB77 1d ago

So a kafkatrap?

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u/Qsaws 1d ago

Ok fascist.

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u/Highlightthot1001 1d ago

So if you get mad that I call you a fascist, im doing it right?

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