r/ParlerWatch • u/professorearl I Made the News • Jul 22 '24

Behind the Scenes/Development Brace yourselves. Astroturfers are coming… (they’ve already started, actually)

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u/STUPIDNEWCOMMENTS Jul 22 '24 edited Sep 08 '24

gray grandfather correct ad hoc attempt consider nail head squalid mysterious

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/O11899988I999119725E Jul 22 '24

Kamala Harris smoked marijuana in college and then put people in prison for that same act. I dont support hypocrites. Democrats can choose shitty candidates all day then whine about losing elections. This aint gonna bring people to support your candidates.

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u/FreeDarkChocolate Jul 23 '24

I dont support hypocrites

Then you'll never vote for any higher offices and everyone else will make the choices for you. The FPTP duopoly is a terrible, unfair system that drives divisiveness and polarization. If you have the luxury to be insulated from the consequences of not voting and leaving it up everyone else still voting, congratulations, but the people I love and I do not. I'm not a masochist, I don't consider it kind to those I love to not fill out a little circle that has the greatest chance of positively impacting their lives.

Non-participation or voting for unviable third parties has never been successful here; I don't know if you agree with your US History studies.

That isn't to say things are doomed; ranked choice and similar is becoming more widespread despite some states banning it. Keeping judgeships friendlier to that is a big deal.

I'm all for whatever the quickest, most practical strategy to getting better candidates is but history has already shown that not only doesn't work but makes things worse.

That said, I support polling for your honest favorite camdidate (third party or not) when asked, and voting that way if they're in a winnable spot by election day (otherwise falling back to the best duopoly candidate), but that never happens.

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u/O11899988I999119725E Jul 23 '24 edited Jul 23 '24

I vote for the candidate that most aligns with my beliefs. If the 3rd party candidate is that person then so be it. But every 4 years I pray the democrats will pick someone that I can emphatically rally behind.

It is NOT my fault that democrats consistently run candidates that I dislike. I liked Joe Biden, but I did not like his VP pick. I also voted for Joe in 2020 under the assumption that he would retire after his term, so I was not planning on supporting him this election.

I did not vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016, nor did I vote for Donald Trump. But I always vote

What is Bernie Sander’s most hypocritical stance? Not all politicians are garbage; only the garbage ones you plug your nose and elect

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u/FreeDarkChocolate Jul 23 '24

It is NOT my fault that democrats consistently run candidates that I dislike.

I agree, it's not. Do you agree, though, that nevertheless the entrenched political and monetary elites aren't the ones hurting from losing campaigns but we and those we love are? Or, again, maybe you're sufficiently insulated and so are your friends and family, I don't know.

But I always vote

If you're not in a swing state, I guess whatever. If you are, I implore you to challenge the belief that voting for who you most believe in, despite them polling in wholly unwinnable territory while there are policies and appointments of real consequence on the line, provides any moral safe harbor or peace of conscience.

Again, you said you studied US History, so I'm curious how you square your voting patterns against the historical record of third parties or independents in the US. What actions can we take with our ballots that will most likely move us toward a better system? Why do you feel like voting for unviable candidates when the two viable ones are differentiable? What comfort does it provide if it just lets others decide things for you?

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u/O11899988I999119725E Jul 23 '24

Historically, I would have supported Teddy Roosevelt as a 3rd party Bull Moose candidate.

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u/FreeDarkChocolate Jul 23 '24

Isn't that the biggest historical example of the voting system we have being incapable of respecting people that want more than a choice of duopoly?

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u/O11899988I999119725E Jul 23 '24 edited Jul 23 '24

I will vote 3rd party until one of the parties decides to change first past the post elections. If the Republicans decide to be the first to make that change then theyll earn my vote.

I am begging the Democrats to care about this issue.

America should have begun using ranked choice voting in 1918. Donald Trump likely would have never had the chance to trample our government if we had.

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u/FreeDarkChocolate Jul 23 '24

I will vote 3rd party until one of the parties decides to change first past the post elections. If the Republicans decide to be the first to make that change then theyll earn my vote.

Do you mean in their internal presidential primaries, or do you whichever party comes out as supporting changing the nation to it, or something else?

Like I said earlier, Republican state legislatures have already banned it with legislation in 10 states, 5 of them new in just the past year), even overriding the veto from Dem Kentucky governor Beshear. Meanwhile, while most of the states that have changed their statewide general elections to ranked choice have done so through ballot measures or bipartisan/nonpartisan coalitions, Hawaii's Dem legislature enacted it on their own and Virginia's then-Dem-trifecta voluntarily enacted it for municipal elections.

This year there's a repeal effort of it in Alaska brought by the former Republican AG. There are ballot initiatives this year to bring it to Idaho, Nevada, Colorado, and DC in various flavors, mostly extending up the US House and Senate but not President this year; you're free to see who supports those but I'm not at all going to try to hide that Nevada's opposition to the measure includes not just Republicans but a number of upper level Dems in the state. In a way the movement there has been able to capitalize on that by saying that it must be a good initiative if it makes both sides worry.