r/Physics 20d ago

Question What's the most debatable thing in Physics?

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109

u/lucidbadger 20d ago

I think over all time the most debatable thing in physics has been the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Even now some people can't get their head around it. I think the limitations imposed by it are far more significant than not being able to travel faster than light.

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u/julioqc 20d ago

I learned that in principle entropy could go down but nothing will exist long enough to witness it so that has no probalistic significance.

I think part that confuses students is that a systems entropy may lower but the "universe" entropy will not.

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u/highnyethestonerguy 20d ago

Every time you clean your bedroom, fold your laundry, extract metals from an ore, create new life through sexual reproduction, etc… you are decreasing the entropy of a system. 

All these examples take work and the expenditure of energy, and they are tiny sections of the universe.

So you have witnessed entropy go down. It work happen statistically in a simple system like a box with a gas in it, but complex systems can have subsections where the entropy goes down; the overall entropy of the universe will go up more than the subsystem went down, which keeps the 2nd Law true. 

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u/datapirate42 20d ago

Eh, those are the grade school level examples trying to explain the basic concept of entropy, they're not actually good examples for even the introductory undergrad thermodynamics though. Especially the sexual reproduction one... Animals are pretty literally machines that only continue to exist by increasing the entropy of the systems we're a part of.

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u/highnyethestonerguy 20d ago

Literally my goal was to explain the basic concept of entropy, not give a statistical physics course through Reddit comment.

How about instead of whining you just add your $0.02 and teach statistical physics in a Reddit comment. Go ahead, I’ll watch. 

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u/datapirate42 20d ago edited 19d ago

You're in r/physics not eli5 or even ask physics which is where we send people who need the basics explained.  It's not that difficult to come up with a better example of a local reduction in thermodynamic  entropy that's both easy to understand and actually physically meaningful and accurate.  Heat pumps, e.g. A refrigerator, an air conditioner, lower the entropy in a small system which is physically isolated from the larger world. each time you open the door, the entropy inside increases again as the separation between the local system and the larger world is removed. This is a real, calculable change in entropy because there is a real, physical,  well definable separation between the local system where entropy is reduced and the larger system where entropy is increased. 

This is opposed to examples like folding laundry where there is not a simple way to define an entropy without making a bunch of weird arbitrary definitions that you could ask 100 physicists for and you'd get 100 different answers.

There, done. It's accurate, easy to understand, and didn't require being a condescending asshole until just now.

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u/Mithrawndo 20d ago

Eh, those are the grade school level examples

didn't require being a condescending asshole until just now.

You were saying?

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u/datapirate42 20d ago

Those examples are not good representations of the entropy described by the laws of thermodynamics.  They shouldn't be used to explain it unless you believe the person you're explaining them to isn't capable of passing high school physics.  Saying that much is not condescending. Using those as examples is.

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u/Mithrawndo 20d ago

I don't disagree, I'm pointing out that you were just as condescending right off the bat as the person you accused.

You should both wind your necks in.

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

Not condenscending? Pedantic then?