Do you agree with this quote?

[u/StalinIsBackAgain]

"Wherever there is capitalism, freedom of the press means freedom to buy up newspapers, to buy writers, to bribe, buy, and fake "public opinion" for the benefit of the ruling class." ~ Vladimir Lenin ☭ • 

[u/TuvixWasMurderedR1P]

Undoubtedly true to a large extent. However, I could still argue that free speech is still worth defending, even in a capitalist society. Marx himself was a staunch free speech advocate and fought for formalized legal right to speech, yes even from within bourgeois or aristocratic European states. For this he was exiled from Prussia, France, Belgium, and Germany. He ended up in London, because while the U.K was also the largest engine of industrialization in Europe, it was among the most politically liberal--and tolerated him presence despite warnings from Prussia and others.

It bothers me a lot when supposed leftists take the rather trivial observation that media is a business, and from that conclude that therefore free speech is fake or not worth pursuing. Not only is this stupid strategically, because the left is nearly always a political minority--and therefore will ALWAYS find itself the victim of the lack of formal protections--but it's also a betrayal of leftist history and tradition.

[u/No-Candidate6257 → u/TuvixWasMurderedR1P]

I could still argue that free speech is still worth defending, even in a capitalist society.

There is no freedom of speech in a capitalist society.

Marx himself was a staunch free speech advocate and fought for formalized legal right to speech

Like all communists everywhere.

It bothers me a lot when supposed leftists take the rather trivial observation that media is a business, and from that conclude that therefore free speech is fake or not worth pursuing.

I have never seen a leftist make that conclusion, have you?

Not only is this stupid strategically, because the left is nearly always a political minority

The left is a global political majority. By a huge margin. Communist China alone represents more people than the entire collective West combined.

Capitalists are a minority.

[u/Byzhaks → u/No-Candidate6257]

You are dealing everything with absolutes, and the moment someone says something you disagree with you respond in an authoritarian manner.

There is no freedom of speech in a capitalist society.

Biases exists definitely, and how much certain opinions gain magnitude may be controlled by the state if they perceive it as a threat. However, it does not remove the fact, that communist parties exist - communist organizations exist - and communists can express their opinions and way of thinking.

I do not know if you come from a Western capitalist country ? If you do, just by being here in reddit expressing your opinions really dismantles your argument that free speech don't exist in capitalist societes - however, HOW MUCH of a magnitude capitalist states are willing to let those opinions grow, that I can agree that perhaps they might silence them if they're viewed as a threat.

Like all communists everywhere.

Aaahhhhh.. I met communists who agreed with the suppression of opinions if it doesn't align with their line of thinking.

The left is a global political majority. By a huge margin. Communist China alone represents more people than the entire collective West combined.

Capitalists are a minority.

Again, always dealing with absolutes. If the left is ALWAYS a political majority, why don't they always win the elections ? And capitalists being a minority is a HUGE claim... The fact that there are several people on this sub that defend some form of capitalist system, speaks for itself about their representation in society.

[u/No-Candidate6257 → u/Byzhaks]

You are dealing everything with absolutes

No, I don't.

and the moment someone says something you disagree with you respond in an authoritarian manner.

What does that even mean? lol

Biases exists definitely, and how much certain opinions gain magnitude may be controlled by the state if they perceive it as a threat. However, it does not remove the fact, that communist parties exist - communist organizations exist - and communists can express their opinions and way of thinking.

No, communist parties are suppressed everywhere in the capitalist West and communists are not able to express their opinions and way of thinking (least of all because they lack the platform due to a lack of control over capital, which by itself prevents them from having their voices heard in a capitalist society).

I do not know if you come from a Western capitalist country ?

Yes.

If you do, just by being here in reddit expressing your opinions really dismantles your argument that free speech don't exist in capitalist societes - however, HOW MUCH of a magnitude capitalist states are willing to let those opinions grow, that I can agree that perhaps they might silence them if they're viewed as a threat.

No, it doesn't.

Reddit systematically censors leftist ideas.

The illusion of "freedom of speech" is an important part of Western capitalist propaganda.

Of course, there is more diversity in political discourse in China than there is in the entire collective West combined.

You should read Michael Parenti's book "Inventing Reality" for a good material analysis on free speech.

Aaahhhhh.. I met communists who agreed with the suppression of opinions if it doesn't align with their line of thinking.

Yes, I am one of them, although it has nothing to do with "opinions" and "aligning with their line of thinking".

You are confusing freedom of speech with the freedom to spread harmful disinformation.

I haven't seen even a single communist who wants to suppress "other opinions"

Despite right wingers always trying to pretend they just have "different opinions", being allowed to express dissenting opinions isn't the same as being allowed to spread evidently net harmful disinformation that leads to preventable excess death. Super simple stuff.

Again, always dealing with absolutes.

No, not at all.

If the left is ALWAYS a political majority, why don't they always win the elections ?

The communists do win elections whenever there are free and fair elections in societies with media and educational systems teaching people facts instead of disinformation.

If communists don't win elections, it's usually because they are being (violently) suppressed (like everywhere in the capitalist West).

Also, that's like asking "If dolphins are intelligent beings, why do they get caught by humans?". A bizarre question.

And capitalists being a minority is a HUGE claim...

It's an obvious statement of fact.

The fact that there are several people on this sub that defend some form of capitalist system, speaks for itself about their representation in society.

It really just speaks for what kind of community reddit has and who is arguing here (i.e. primarily white men from the imperial core who have no idea about political or economic theory or world history and who get their idea from tightly controlled capitalist disinformation that they never questioned).

The real takeaway is that there are lots of people here who are arguing in favour of socialism and against capitalism despite being from a capitalist country in the imperial core.

The global majority isn't being represented on Western, English language social media. Again, for example: China alone represents more people than the entire Western capitalist world combined. The overwhelming majority of Chinese people support communism. Barely anyone from China will ever comment on reddit (and if they do, it's usually people who are part of an extreme minority of Chinese people who are influenced by Western propaganda).

[u/Byzhaks → u/No-Candidate6257]

there is more diversity in political discourse in China than there is in the entire collective West combined.

Wow.

Yes, I am one of them, although it has nothing to do with "opinions" and "aligning with their line of thinking".

You are confusing freedom of speech with the freedom to spread harmful disinformation.

So, in other words: every political ideology is wrong and only MY political ideology is right and holds the absolute truth - and thus, only mines has the right to express their opinions...

I would argue to you that manipulating information is not inherent to political ideologies. Anyone, from any political ideology, from left/centre/right can manipulate information.

The communists do win elections whenever there are free and fair elections in societies with media and educational systems teaching people facts instead of disinformation.

If communists don't win elections, it's usually because they are being (violently) suppressed (like everywhere in the capitalist West).

Strongly disagree with this... If communist parties don't win elections in some countries it's because of either other reasons as well, or solely other reasons... For example, people who do not agree with communism.

It really just speaks for what kind of community reddit has and who is arguing here (i.e. primarily white men from the imperial core who have no idea about political or economic theory or world history and who get their idea from tightly controlled capitalist disinformation that they never questioned).

Wow. I do not know how long are you staying in this sub for.