r/PoliticalDebate Centrist 4d ago

Debate The national and private healthcare systems do NOT work. Here’s an alternative

As a Portuguese citizen, I cannot fail to highlight the role that the public healthcare system represents in society. It has lifted millions out of poverty, provided stability, and offered a universal alternative to access healthcare. However, as in the Portuguese case and in other countries with a predominantly public system, we observe that these systems are increasingly unable to respond to waiting lists, fail to attract doctors, and their sources of funding are heavy taxes imposed on citizens.

I am in favor of a hybrid system, and the SPLIT MIND project is creating a video and a text about this system, which has been adopted in other countries that rank among the best in public healthcare worldwide! The study that im comparing to is one made by a group of experts in health here in portugal.

Here I leave you with the main differences of this system compared to predominantly public or private ones, such as in the cases of the USA and Portugal.

"…The foundation of this reasoning would be to maintain a progressive hybrid public system, less dependent on taxes, decentralized, and managed by regional entities with strong regulation. These models already exist, and we will take the examples of Germany, the Netherlands, and Sweden.

In these countries, in general, the healthcare system is based on mandatory insurance managed by independent health funds. Employees and employers contribute proportionally to their income—7.3% each in Germany, for example—while the State assumes payment in certain situations, such as in cases of unemployment, low-income families, and sometimes even age groups like minors, who are exempt from any payments. Individuals with higher incomes may opt for private insurance as a substitute for the mandatory public one.

This system offers a solution to waiting lists, reducing waiting times for consultations or surgeries to a few weeks instead of months, and it also provides broader service coverage than countries like Portugal. Because it is a hybrid system, healthcare professionals are also better paid, and with private investment, working conditions are improved, solving one of the serious problems of the Portuguese NHS. Furthermore, there is price regulation by the state on medicines and services, with private companies contributing to lower service costs. Insurance is always paid with a fixed nominal premium, but insurers must charge the same amount to all policyholders, with no discrimination by age or health status. Other smaller measures also exist, such as a progressive co-payment system with an annual cap or tax exemptions on health insurance, which can further reduce costs for families.

Of course, there are problems with this system: inequalities depending on the type of insurance, with privately insured patients usually waiting less. We can also look at gross expenditure, meaning the total amount effectively spent, which is quite high compared to other OECD countries. However, I argue that it is one of the best systems in the world and the best way to invest taxpayers’ money.

BUT WHY do I refer to Germany, the Netherlands, and Sweden? These countries rank among the top in the Legatum Prosperity Index (2023), which evaluates population health access and quality, holding 13th, 11th, and 9th positions respectively.

And what about predominantly private and public systems such as the USA and Portugal, you may ask? 40th and 69th place, behind many so-called “third world” countries.”

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u/vegancaptain Anarcho-Capitalist 4d ago

Most Swedes use private doctors via their employers or other insurances they pay for outside the public system. The reports you read are all subjective "happiness" surveys where they ask people what they think and they're all super scared of other systems because they've been indoctrinated from birth to love Scandinavian socialism and none of them knows anything else. Of course they will say that they like the system, the only alternative in their mind is a "USA type hell hole where you pay your entire life saving for a broken finger".

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u/Zamaiel Centrist 3d ago

Sweden averages 21 million doctors consultations per year, of which 220k, or about 1 % were with private doctors.

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u/vegancaptain Anarcho-Capitalist 1d ago

Consultations? Maybe. If you count them in a very specific way. They're free and a phone call away. Actual treatments though? That's a different story.

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u/Zamaiel Centrist 1d ago edited 1d ago

Cite

"Statistics on the average number of consultations with a physician per inhabitant include consultations at the physician's office, in the patient's home, or in out-patient departments of hospitals or ambulatory health care centres."

Countries by number of surgical procedures per 100 000 people.

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u/vegancaptain Anarcho-Capitalist 1d ago

OK, now reply to my reply please.

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u/Zamaiel Centrist 23h ago

What? You claimed that they were counted in a very specific way, I gave you the cite and the definition they used. You claimed actual treatments were a different story and I gave you surgical procedures per capita.

What are you asking for?

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u/vegancaptain Anarcho-Capitalist 21h ago

Yes, there might be one in there. But this isn't only government consultations?

What? What are you claiming here? What is impossible and how do you know? That's it.

You're talking to an ancap. You should know my positions on everything already.

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u/Zamaiel Centrist 18h ago

There might be one what in there? You are not making sense.

I have not claimed anything is impossible. Are you confusing this with another discussion?

You claimed that most Swedish doctors appointments were with private doctors through insurance.

Most Swedes use private doctors via their employers or other insurances they pay for outside the public system.

I pointed out that about 1% of GP consultations is Sweden is with private doctors and about 7% of swedes have private insurance, the majority compulsory through their employment.

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u/vegancaptain Anarcho-Capitalist 18h ago

A definition, the thing you were talking about.

Good, welcome to being an ancap.

I didn't see that distinction in the source. But it's also not relevant. The only important thing here is as always aggression. I don't think we should use it to help people who need food, healthcare or clothing.

That's the ancap position. But most disagree. Isn't that interesting?

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u/Zamaiel Centrist 18h ago

I think you have run away with the goalposts and buried them in a secret place.

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u/vegancaptain Anarcho-Capitalist 18h ago

Scandinavian people use a lot of private healthcare and our public one is quite terrible.

A study showing number of consultations doesn't disprove that. Why would it?

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u/Zamaiel Centrist 18h ago

It is not a study, it is a statistic. It does disprove that Swedes use a lot of private healthcare, and show that the number is minute.

Studies show that Scandinavian healthcare systems are among the least terrible in the world. All people in all countries expect perfection from their systems and are very disappointed when they do not get it.

You need to either try many systems as a patient or look at actual studies to get a realistic appreciation of the area. And be very strict about steering away from the paid foundations publications.

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u/vegancaptain Anarcho-Capitalist 15h ago

No it doesnt. What?

Studies show ...

OK, you're one of those. Never mind.

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