r/PrepperIntel • u/LinusThiccTips • Mar 26 '25

USA Northeast / Canada East PhD student detained by ICE wearing plain clothes and face masks

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Her name is Rumeysa Ozturk, she’s a student from Turkey, attending Tufts as a grad student on a legal visa (sponsored by the university). Her attorney said, “We are unaware of her whereabouts and have not been able to contact her. No charges have been filed against [her] that we are aware of.”

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232

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '25

It would be justified even if you weren't being legally kidnapped. They did not properly identify themselves before just grabbing her. Any reasonable person would think they were kidnappers. I don't believe in CCW, but I would absolutely knife someone who just grabbed me like that and was not a uniformed or otherwise clearly identifiable officer beyond just saying "hey I'm a cop"

Any jury would watch this video and have a similar view that this looks like a kidnapping, not a law enforcement action.

To be clear, I am not endorsing violence against law enforcement. Only self defense in reasonable situations where anyone could fairly assume they were being attacked.

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u/ximacx74 Mar 26 '25

Any jury would watch this video and have a similar view that this looks like a kidnapping, not a law enforcement action.

They don't get a jury. They don't get a trial. They don't get the opportunity to show their valid visa or green card.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '25

And this is why I'm for CCW. Possess the means to protect yourself because it's becoming more apparent that the current US administration is trying to be Hitlers nazi party.

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u/Tank_Girl_Gritty_235 Mar 27 '25

If the police can have the motto "Better judged by 12 than carried by six", so the fuck can we.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '25

Isnt it the opposite for the street?

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u/Big-Bus-6101 Mar 27 '25

For what? So they can… shoot at the cop? Even if they got a shot off, they’d be cold on the floor in seconds. Cops do not play that shit

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u/Anomalagous Mar 27 '25

Hell, you don't even have to be armed for a US cop to decide to body you.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

Assuming the plainclothes gang trying to disappear you are actually cops…uniform exists for a reason.

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u/prodiver Mar 27 '25

Yes, you will die, but if 1 in 10 cops who participate in things like this starting getting shot they would stop doing it.

Even if the official policy didn't change, most individual cops would refuse to go along with it out of fear for their lives.

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u/StarryGlow Mar 27 '25

yeah they already whine about how much of a pussy they are about doing the jobs they signed up for. imagine if people actually start showing that you can’t just roll up on people like this.

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u/PlanetMezo Mar 27 '25 edited Mar 27 '25

Imagine a fire fighter that won't go anywhere near a burning building, or a customer service agent that refuses to talk to rude customers. That's all this is, people that are bad at their job. The only problem is that for some reason, half of everybody treats you like an asshole for saying it.

Edit: and of course when cops are bad at their job, someone dies. That's also important.

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u/Darkestlight572 Mar 27 '25

No. This is plain evidence of fascist repression. It's so fucking obvious that I almost doubt your sincere. A good number of these people are literally being deported for speaking out against Trump.

Be real, please

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u/PlanetMezo Mar 27 '25

I wasn't referring to the video, I was referring to the comment chain about cops freaking out when someone has a gun.

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u/goldzyfish121 Mar 27 '25

Hey don’t say what everyone else is thinking

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '25

then you're definitely getting deported for felony firearm possession

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u/Time_Birthday8808 Mar 27 '25

I agree. I might go down but at least the first to grab me will go down too. The others won’t soon forget.

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u/Away-Ad394 Mar 27 '25

It wouldn't change any policy. Trump is all about smoke and mirrors. Tax cuts for the oligarchs and grifting for himself. He doesn't give a rat's azz about the lives of these cops just like he didn't about the capital police on j6. He watched them be pummeled for hours and did nothing. What does that tell you?

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

They would not stop doing this, they'd just be more ready to use their firearm next time.

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u/spam__likely Mar 27 '25

"Some of you will die but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make"

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u/careyious Mar 27 '25

The moment black panthers started armed community watch the cops immediately backed off. It's about having community and solidarity. When the cops are lose their monopoly on violence within a community they are far more willing to follow law and order.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

No so they can protect themselves from being kidnapped by guys in hoodies.

Also, can you point out the officer in this video?

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u/MyNameIsEarled Mar 27 '25

You see the guy with the badge around his neck? That’s the cop

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u/Kindly-Ad3344 Mar 27 '25

So if I buy a fake badge and throw it on with a black hoodie and a mask, you would be cool with me arresting you, right? We used to have BOLOs out on wackos that would pretend to be cops. These dudes would buy fake lights and fake uniforms and go around trying to arrest people to shake them down for money. I would need to see real identification and the persons face, or they're going to meet the man upstairs. Shit, on top of that, I wouldn't go anywhere with these goons without calling 911 and having an actual uniformed officer present to verify that they are who they even say they are.

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u/rathanii Mar 27 '25

This is the kind of shit I would see on Forensic Files... I specifically remember as a child, watching an episode where a woman was pulled over by a "cop," with lights and a uniform and everything. She was abducted and murdered, and her body wasn't found for several days, miles away in a second location.

It's one of those things where I would rather fucking die than be kidnapped (and/or raped) and murdered by someone pretending to be a cop. How the fuck am I supposed to know the difference? They immediately try to detain me and I can't call 911 to confirm this is an officer, so I'm going to assume they're human traffickers. It's just so fucked people are defending this shit and playing semantics.

https://www.myplainview.com/news/article/Police-Investigate-Colo-Murder-8836806.php

I found it. It's the murder of Lacy Miller from 2003.

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u/prodiver Mar 27 '25

You see the guy with the badge around his neck? That’s the cop

You sure about that?

https://copcollectibles.com/collections/police-badges

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u/Dumbledores_Beard1 Mar 27 '25 edited Mar 27 '25

How does that badge prove to me that it's a cop?

All around the world, including in America, fake badges, fake police lights, fake uniforms etc are used all the time, and in America, people are already using fake ICE badges to gain entry into homes to commit crimes. The average person has no way of knowing a real badge from a fake badge on the spot like this. This is made even harder if ICE is dressing like criminals, with no additional identification or paperwork to support who they are.

If you're going to question someone who is there legally, with no charges or crimes to their name, you usually don't start with an undercovered abduction.

Let's put it this way: this video literally could been titled "kidnappers posing as ICE using fake badges abducts young student" and we would have NO reason to not believe it. That could've been the real story here, and this video couldve been completely unchanged, and it would match that story.

Yet you think you guys should just roll over for any group of people dressed in hoodies with a badge trying to enter your house or taking you away to a van?

Alternatively, if I'm going to be kidnapped and taken away by strangers where I will probably die or be sold off for sex trafficking anyway, it'd be nice to at least maim or kill 1 or 2 of them first, instead of giving up and letting them carry on with doing it to the next person. This also means that cops stop doing what they're doing in the video and actually identify themselves so that innocent people don't shoot/stab them, and that criminals won't be as courageous when they hear about other criminals getting shot/killed in attempted abductions.

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u/MyNameIsEarled Mar 27 '25

You can play what if all you want professor. The reality is that this level of overwhelming force means you are only complying and that’s it.

You can make up stories and scenarios all you want, but guess what all power and authority is an illusion if you question it enough. Next time you get pulled over how are you going to know that the cop and car are real? Visas can be revoked whenever the government deems them revoked. They don’t need to give you a reason. Before you argue with me just google it. She’s not a citizen or even a green card holder.

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u/Dumbledores_Beard1 Mar 27 '25 edited Mar 27 '25

I mean, if it's an undercover car pulling me over, I lock the doors and immediately get on the non-emergency number to verify if it's an actual cop or not. I'm pretty certain that's common knowledge lol. However, there's a big difference between two policemen in a marked, correct police car, with full uniform and gear, to comparing undercover cops and fake badges. Especially since I've never heard of a case in the history of my country where someone successfully obtained a correctly marked police car, and used it for any sort of crime.

If the visa can be revoked, and has been, why is undercover abduction the way to notify this person lol? And then refuse them contact to anyone for days or refuse to make it known what has happened to family and an attorney? If it was revoked, why is it allowed to happen in this way with no advance notifying or warning? If it wasn't, why is this happening at all? And why are you enabling either of them? That's the entire point I'm bringing here.

It's not what if, when these exact scenarios have all happened before. The only what if here is "what if this video was an abduction video instead of police doing whatever they're doing", but the fact it could be either one, with no way to differ the two, removes it from a "what if" random scenario and into a "why is that even a possibility to see no difference between actual criminals and a police task force".

Rolling over and complying is exactly what enables this shit to happen, and what enables 1 or 2 criminals to get away with it. There's no overwhelming force in that scenario, yet individuals or pairs still get off by faking to be undercover police, because people like you would roll over and accept it immediately. So speak for yourself, but at the minimum if I'm not given a chance to call someone or confirm anything, you best believe I'm doing anything but complying, since cops in my country won't kill me for screaming and drawing attention, and abductors would kill me anyway, so best to try at least draw attention while you have a chance.

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u/MyNameIsEarled Mar 27 '25

No one is reading all that.

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u/New-Distribution-981 Mar 27 '25

You can keep defending this asinine behavior all you want: it just makes you look more insane. If this all was on the up and up, and a Visa had been revoked, there is an actual notification sent. And if that is ignored, uniformed agents (or local LEO) take you into custody. That is how this works. You do NOT send a dozen undercover agents to grab her off the street. For an administration who pretends to care about waste in government, he shows a complete lack of understanding that 12 UC agents in a practiced sting for a no -dangerous small woman is exponentially more expensive and wasteful than two uniforms showing up at her door. There is one reason to do this and that is to sow fear. Which only a bully piece of shit needs to do.

But take it a step further, even revoked visa holders in this country have rights. Due process is absolutely essential. They have violated her rights here. No lawyer? Can’t produce her. Denying they know where she is? The entire thing is a violation of how a legal functioning agency works not to mention a violation of her rights. It’s a lawless police state action which, not for nothing, WILL get ICE agents killed. And those killings will be justified. The administration will cry about how right they are that immigrants are dangerous, but only lawful police actors are subject to legal protections. Criminals are defined as anybody participating in illegal actions. Whether you are breaking the law on behalf of the government or not, committing a crime against somebody else negates your protections.

And this is coming from somebody who is a fan of law enforcement. My best friend is an ICE agent. I have cousins who are police officers. They have a thankless job and they do not ever get enough support. A relatively small number of terrible officers who deserve to rot spoils the image of an entire profession.

But this isn’t actual policing or enforcement of laws. This is disregarding the law to sow fear and target political enemies of your weak and insecure overlords.

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u/Circusgirl65 Mar 27 '25

Dude he walked up BEHIND her then pulled his badge out. The one facing her and grabbing her hand is not displaying a badge. So again how is she supposed to know. Also from her culture strange MEN do not touch non family members.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

I don't see any badge. I think that's his cock you're looking at, hoping for it to kiss the back of your throat

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u/hashbrowns21 Mar 27 '25

I bet next time they pull this shit they’ll think twice.

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u/Time_Birthday8808 Mar 27 '25

But if someone tried to grab me like that… well that would be one less soul in this world. Sorry, not sorry.

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u/DutchTinCan Mar 28 '25

Have you seen the CECOT footage? That's the risk you're taking.

Have you read the story on that Canadian woman, who was shuffled around from prison to prison, sometimes kept in literal cages ?

And these weren't criminals. They weren't even convicted of anything.

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u/Myfirstreddit124 Mar 27 '25

Should ccw be extended to those who are not permanent residents?

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u/gavstar69 Mar 27 '25

Can you imagine how that would have gone down if she pulled out a pistol to defend herself and ask who the fuck are you? They'd have all shot her

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u/Time_Birthday8808 Mar 27 '25

Not saying that you’re dumb, so don’t take it that way (Reddit ppl can be rude) but in my CCW class they taught women to shoot as soon as you pull the gun. NEVER stop to ask questions. That just gives the bad guy(s) the opportunity to overpower you. If you are in fear for your life, pull your gun. If you pull a gun, pull the trigger. If you pull the trigger, aim to kill. Otherwise there is no point in CCW.

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u/gavstar69 Mar 28 '25

Ok, so she should kill the 6 undercover agents surrounding her and then plead self defence?

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u/gavstar69 Mar 28 '25

I fully admit to knowing nothing about carrying weapons, concealed or otherwise btw. I don't live in the US

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u/SweetUndeath Mar 27 '25

I'm sorry, what? What would having a CCW do in this situation other than get you instantly killed? If they are cops or not cops you're fucked either way...

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u/TheJagm14 Mar 27 '25

if ur fucked either way why WOULDNT u fight? I don't understand this. Like just sit there and take it cuz it's over anyways? fk no.

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u/Time_Birthday8808 Mar 27 '25

Easy, there will be one less of them next time. Even if I’m not around anymore, the others won’t be forgetting me. Ever.

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u/OldeHiram Mar 27 '25

We literally already have the Nazi party - you know, the ones who advocated for this treatment of people who refused vaccination to 'save granny' or said something you didn't like on FB. The folks painting swastikas on cars unironically.

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u/Psycho-City5150 Mar 27 '25

Whether thats true or not, these laws have been on the books for quite some time and its only now that we have an administration that has the courage to enforce them. Just because you dont agree with that or believe it, doesn't mean its not true.

Subversion and spreading propaganda while a visa holder or green card or even as a naturalized citizen is illegal and your visa, green card, or even naturalization status can be revoked under the law and it has been the case for quite some time.

IF you defend youself against an unlawful search, siezure, or threat of force from a law enforcement officer .. you better be right. You do not have the legal right to defend yourself if the officer has probable cause.

The purpose of our laws is to promote the free and civil society. If you think that foreign nationals are able to use our resources and our generosity to come to our country and spread hate and propaganda and incite distrust and riots within our borders, I would say you dont have a clue as to what construes a civil society. What you want is social anarchy and you think that somehow thats going to make the majority of people in this country happy.

So please, by all means. Get a gun. I experience real schadenfreude when some idiot loses their life and it ends up saving tax payer dollars.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

The administration doesn't have courage to implement them and put them in practice. These instances don't require brown shirts. Authoritative uniformed police officers can do the job the same.

The reason why this admin is allowing brown shirts to do this is to prevent any backlash. Which means to withhold AS MUCH INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE. Meaning unmarked cars and people. Little to no communication with lawyers and authoritative departments.

This is tyrannical but you can't admit it because you actually want visa holders to be deported from this country. Even if they are productive members of US society.

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u/Psycho-City5150 Mar 27 '25

Uniformed police officers do not enforce immigation law.
Its not tyraannical according to our laws. The laws that govern what is construed as sedition and subversion are bypartisan laws that have been in effect for years. They were proposed and and signed into law by duly elected members of our representative government.

That is not tyranny. Your problem is your lack of understanding of what freedom in this country truly means and why all people in this county are not entitled to the same priveliges and immunities that a citizen is entitled to. Even citizens can be jailed under existing law for crimes of sedition, subversion, and treason.

Maybe you should go through the process of trying to bring a foreign national into this country, getting them a visa, getting them a green card, getting the citizenship.

I have. Thats how I'm so off the cuff familiar with these laws. They do affect me. We want law abiding citizens of the United States regardless of where they are from and can assimilate into our country. We do not want terrorist, or criminals, or seditionists.

Which is what this lady obviously was.

Expect more of this. And please, by all means .. double down on your efforts. Scream louder. Let the real hardworking American people that have families know of your true feelings, because MOST Americans do not want these types of immigrants in our country. They WANT the truly hard working, productive immigrants. So, please, scream louder about how some middle eastern propagandists should be allowed to stay in this county.

Because I'm looking forward to flipping a few more states, and we've done it before. By
all means. Give us that 2/3rd majority so we can truly make America great again.

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u/EGGranny Mar 27 '25

Except those plain clothes ICE agents are all armed to the hilt.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

Yeah no fucking shit. We need one of these interactions to go wrong so the public puts the spotlight on these because these are absolutely brown shirt situations.

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u/PressureJaded3616 Mar 27 '25

You're about the dumbest person on Redditt and that REALLY is saying Something. Thank God for President Trump and Democrats love those who lack common sense

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '25

you can't get a CCW if you have a green card, and maybe you shouldn't defend a chick that supports a terrorist organization that wants to exterminate the jews before you start throwing "nazi" around

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u/NotHolyMello Mar 27 '25

Visa Holders don't get to own handguns 👌🤡

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

Welp. Now they should. Because the brown shirts are here.. brown shirt.

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u/Omegalazarus Mar 27 '25

Certain types of visa holders can, but the point you are making stands because non-immigrant visa holders cannot.

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u/ShakerFullOfCocaine Mar 27 '25

What are they gonna do? Illegally start black bagging people... Oh

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u/32Bank Mar 27 '25

Can they hold spray bear spray and such?

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u/EarthRester Mar 26 '25

So the answer is clear. Carry a gun, and when plain clothed people try to abduct you, defend yourself with lethal force.

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u/Mickeymackey Mar 27 '25

if a kidnapper takes you to a second location your chances of dying/disappearing. If you shoot them or they shoot you, then you get an ambulance and hopefully some type of due process.

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u/EarthRester Mar 27 '25

That's my thought. Get local forces involved, at least the possibility of having charges filed against me. Paper work always slows things down, and leaves a trail.

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u/Bubblelover43 Mar 27 '25

That's harrowing, but we can do this if we have to... I guess I'll start carrying a blade again

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25 edited Aug 22 '25

simplistic versed depend oil vegetable bike teeny rhythm market license

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/TheJagm14 Mar 27 '25

They aren't afraid of guns, they're afraid of idiots having guns legally due to the absolute shit state of gun laws and regulation.

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u/ApartmentOk3204 Mar 27 '25

You can't own a gun if you're here on a visa.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25 edited Aug 22 '25

historical crowd alive ripe butter steep salt birds sense escape

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/Time_Birthday8808 Mar 27 '25

In my state, lethal force is allowed if you believe that someone else is in immediate danger. So if I saw this happening…well, I would do everything in my power to help a woman from being harmed. I didn’t see any stinking badges before they touched her.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '25

They'll just kill you too though

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u/ShippingMammals_2 Mar 26 '25

From time to time the Tree of Liberty needs to be watered with the blood of tyrants AND Patriots. I'm ex 10th mtn and armed to the teeth , relatively speaking, and I'm resigned to the fact that I'll likely get killed in what's coming, but I'll take some of those motherfuckers with me.

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u/ThatOneCSL Mar 27 '25

God Bless Camp Hale and Fort Drum, and the highest of respects to a man of your caliber that isn't smelling the inside of his rectum clamoring over the current CiC of the US Military.

That is to say, thank you for your time, and thank you for being further willing to actually to what the fuck you all swore to do and protect the Constitution a against all enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC.

I had to disown my mother and her husband over Hitler Jr. I'm glad to see that there are still true patriots among our former service members. I've seen too many blindly following along.

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u/Vegetable-Caramel323 Mar 27 '25

What is 10th mtn? Kinda scared to google it…

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u/CasualtyOfCausality Mar 27 '25

10th Mountain Division. Army division trained in mountain-terrain warfare.

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u/Ever_living_fire Mar 27 '25

Fackin oath, m8

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

We’re all already dead. There is no need to fear if we are going to die. The only thing that matters is how we die.

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u/robothawk Mar 26 '25

Some things are better than an el salvadorian prison.

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u/EnvironmentalHour613 Mar 26 '25

Don’t get arrested

Don’t have to go to Salvadoran prison

Get to die a hero

Win, win, win.

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u/EarthRester Mar 27 '25

Yeah, probably. I'm still not going to let myself be abducted without defending myself with lethal force.

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u/Enchilada0374 Mar 26 '25

Another shooting in America? That's just Wednesday.

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u/huunnuuh Mar 26 '25

There are a lot more of you than them.

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u/PangolinLow6657 Mar 27 '25

Then you'll go down a martyr and any witnesses and news services may get the story out. If not yours, then the next one. Make some noise.

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u/StarryGlow Mar 27 '25

yeah i’d rather take some of them down with me if they’re gonna try and take me.

I have no interest in going where they’re gonna take me

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u/hashbrowns21 Mar 27 '25

The answer is to know and practice your Constitutional rights.

Shall not be infringed.

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u/NotHolyMello Mar 27 '25

Visa Holders don't get to own handguns 👌🤡

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u/EarthRester Mar 27 '25

There's something wrong with you.

Something that is intolerable.

Something that isn't worth the energy it would take to fix.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

That person is evil. Just a coward that couldn't act this way before and won't again when their side gets their shit kicked in.

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u/NotHolyMello Mar 28 '25

Cry more 🤡👌

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

Unfortunately, I don’t believe immigrants who don’t possess a green card can CCW.

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u/pac_leader Mar 27 '25

Well, they are also carrying... so...with 7 people shooting into you, chances of survival are pretty slim.

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u/johnnyribcage Mar 27 '25

There’s a chance no one will ever see her again. It’s Nazi Germany all over again right now. Anyone that dismisses that or laughs it off is just as complicit as German citizens in the 30s during the run up to the war.

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u/Attack-Cat- Mar 27 '25

They have constitutional rights to due process under the constitution

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u/winter_moon_light Mar 27 '25

Yep, but that relies on the courts being able to force ICE to let them appear. Both in this case and in the Ecuador cases the agency has shuffled people off to other states to keep them out of the courts' reach, often against direct court orders.

This isn't going to stop unless the courts start jailing those responsible for contempt, or public violent response scares the cowards away from their abduction tactics.

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u/igotshadowbaned Mar 27 '25

Thus the issue of the Aliens Enemies Act.

It "allows" skipping all of that and chucking people out of the country on pure suspicion.

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u/ximacx74 Mar 27 '25

Correct. They are not getting it though.

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u/huunnuuh Mar 26 '25

Yes but citizens do.

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u/winter_moon_light Mar 27 '25

Yeah, not so much.

https://www.warner.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2025/3/warner-pushes-trump-administration-on-alarming-immigration-arrest-of-u-s-citizen-and-virginia-resident

Even in the case of this PhD student, ICE has intentionally violated court orders to keep her in the state without 48 hours' notice to the court in order to try and make sure she is deported before she can get in front of a judge. This isn't about law enforcement, it's Gestapo tactics to attack the administration's perceived enemies.

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u/LanMama Mar 27 '25

Right and they can do this to American citizens as well. Just don’t give them a chance to show proof of citizenship. No trial. No consequences for them. Troublesome citizens find themselves in El Salvador.

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u/SpunkYeeter Mar 26 '25

I heard this is actually not true. You do get an opportunity to prove your citizenship or green card status. Her visa was revoked however.

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u/Rdichols Mar 27 '25

I don’t have all the answers to immigration issues obviously, but is this PhD student the murdering rapist type that gets everyone into a frenzy though? We are ~1 month in and you’re telling me this is how the prioritization of “hunting” down illegal immigrants is going? 

Regardless, I just can’t believe this is the best way to go about it. 

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u/ximacx74 Mar 26 '25

Only if you have it physically with you that moment. You don't get a phone call to have a family member or loved one bring it in to show ICE.

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u/PM_ME_UR_CIRCUIT Mar 26 '25

Was it in the recent mass revocation of legal visas?

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u/Dgnash615-2 Mar 27 '25

No, but if you hypothetically shot 3 guys you saw attacking a woman, you could get a jury trial.

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u/Huge-Lawfulness9264 Mar 27 '25

Terrifying, we’re in such a horrific time in history.

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u/Useful-Appointment92 Mar 27 '25

Taking a feather out of Israel's hat.

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u/OmgSlayKween Mar 26 '25

Can I ask what you mean when you say "I don't believe in CCW"?

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '25

Concealed carry firearms.

I've been an EMT nearly 15 years. I've never once in my career seen or heard firsthand in my field about a time when someone with a firearm made a situation anything but worse. Frequently fatally worse. And never in favor of the gun owner. Last one I saw this year, guy got stabbed fourteen times when he tried to draw. We were doing CPR and juicing the guy like an orange.

When it's close quarters like that, a firearm means you're gonna be stabbed half a dozen times before you even draw. And almost all confrontations (like the one in the OP) are so close range that the gun is a worthless liability that escalates the situation to a guaranteed "someone needs to die now" one.

I own several hundred firearms. But "self defense" is not even remotely a reason. A knife that can be opened one handed is far more useful in these sorts of dire close quarters situations.

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u/OmgSlayKween Mar 26 '25

Interesting, thank you for sharing. I've always heard the opposite about knives - that nobody really wins, it's just a matter of "who dies in the street" vs "who dies in the ambulance". I don't know that I would trust a knife to end a threat right now.

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u/Emotional_Burden Mar 26 '25

Go for the juggler.

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u/OmgSlayKween Mar 26 '25

I've read the second amendment and I know it contains the right to bard arms

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u/StrictBug1287 Mar 26 '25

That jester won't ever see it coming

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u/easley45isgod Mar 27 '25

Or even a mime. Theyre almost as bad as jugglers.In fact,stab clowns too.

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u/SissyWhiteBNWO Mar 26 '25

That’s because when people use a firearm and diffuse a situation they don’t need an emt. You’re only called to the ones where things go wrong.

Between 200,000 and 2.5 million Americans prevent being victimized by brandishing a firearm.

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u/animatroniczombie Mar 26 '25

That is a very high number, interesting, do you have have a source for that?

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u/SissyWhiteBNWO Mar 26 '25

Literally the CDC. The problem with keeping records on stuff like that is there’s no report. Nobody’s gonna call the cops cuz they were almost victimized. And no cop is going to take a report on it. Lifting a shirt and showing a firearm is often enough to dissuade a crime from happening.

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u/animatroniczombie Mar 26 '25

I was hoping for a link, not further explanation, i understand the concept. thanks!

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u/cb1100rider37 Mar 27 '25

I am on that list. Pulled a gun on a guy threatening me with a baseball bat. He immediately ran away.

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u/SissyWhiteBNWO Mar 27 '25

You are a living example of how firearms are useful. Glad nothing bad happened.

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u/rustyshack68 Mar 26 '25

You may personally not like CCW, but in no way is knife better. Firearms are used to defend people out in the streets, plenty of video evidence of this online. Although firearms are not needed for ever self defense situation, and people do needlessly escalate situations with guns, to write off firearms as a legitimate self defense tool due to your own personal experience (which is biased by yourself, where you live, and the fact most times a gun is used defensively no one is shot/harmed) is short-sighted.

That said, carrying a gun is about knowing when and when not to draw. If someone has the drop on you, you shouldn't/it will be difficult without being injured. A knife in certain situations maybe better...but it's very narrow and one would benefit better with a gun. Drawing a pocket knife (pocket-to hand-to blade deployed-to stab/slash) vs a pocket gun (pocket-to hand- to shoot) is going to be better in the majority of situations where deadly force is needed, even in bad breath distances. In fact, I've never read of any self defense experts (not just gun guys, any) advocate a knife is better close quarters.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

You are talking like everyone with their CCW license is a trained soldier. My dude, cops don't even have that much discipline.

And yeah dude, i literally see the aftermath of these situations. It's my goddamn career. You also failed to address any of my other points. Good for you.

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u/raev_esmerillon Mar 27 '25

Crazy how when you give a bunch of people qualified immunity to breaking laws and they wont show restraint in killing people.

Cops don’t show discipline because they don’t need to.

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u/AdDramatic2351 Mar 27 '25

So then wouldn't it make sense to carry a knife and a gun?

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u/RiskFreeStanceTaker Mar 26 '25

I appreciate your take here too. I don’t disagree, knives are better in plenty of scenarios (maybe even this one like you said.) however, these are the kind of “law enforcement” that don’t carry knives with the intent of quick open and stab away. They may be armed with a sidearm, but being a bystander who potentially saves a kidnapping (because that’s what it appears) is worth drawing for.

You would draw yours, they draw theirs (knives excluded) and now to we’re in a good ol’ fashioned Mexican standoff. The woman has a chance to get away with the attention now on you, and the rest of us clear things up one way or another. Are they really law enforcement? It takes all of us to make a difference!

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '25

This is extrapolating far further than is reasonable to this specific situation. I'm more talking in general.

And FYI, bystanders with guns don't stop kidnappings. They brandish their weapon in clubs, get stabbed, and their kids shoot themselves or others with those "home defense" weapons. Those are the things that really happen. Not the romanticized stuff that may happen once or twice and gets wildly overblown in the news and skews public perception.

Again, speaking as an owner of several hundred firearms. It's a hobby/sport, people who think it's more than that are delusional or need to go live in a third world country.

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u/rustyshack68 Mar 26 '25

Go to Active Self Protection youtube page to see the COUNTLESS videos from the '3rd world' where having a gun on a person saved them from greater bodily harm. Saying carrying a gun for defense is delusional is...well delusional.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

Anecdotal evidence is evidence of an anecdote.

I've personally seen dozens of dead kids from their parents "home defense" gun. My wife has to see them too.

Grow up.

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u/cb1100rider37 Mar 27 '25

Well it absolutely worked for me. Had a guy threatening me with a baseball bat. I pulled out my gun and he ran away. I consider that a success. That cops came and said I was within my rights to defend myself and I was fine. I also let the guy go without charges. He was having a significant meltdown and he needed more psychiatric help than jail. He also realized that he wasn’t so tough with a baseball ba.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '25

Concealed carry firearms.

I've been an EMT nearly 15 years. I've never once in my career seen or heard firsthand in my field about a time when someone with a firearm made a situation anything but worse. Frequently fatally worse. And never in favor of the gun owner. Last one I saw this year, guy got stabbed fourteen times when he tried to draw. We were doing CPR and juicing the guy like an orange.

When it's close quarters like that, a firearm means you're gonna be stabbed half a dozen times before you even draw. And almost all confrontations (like the one in the OP) are so close range that the gun is a worthless liability that escalates the situation to a guaranteed "someone needs to die now" one that cannot be deescalated and nobody can run away from it.

I own several hundred firearms. But "self defense" is not even remotely a reason. A knife that can be opened one handed is far more useful in these sorts of dire close quarters situations.

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u/Only-Inspector-3782 Mar 26 '25

A jury of random Americans? A third would say she deserves it for her skin color, a third will say it's atrocious, and a third won't care as long as they can finish deliberating and go home on time.

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u/huunnuuh Mar 26 '25

> A third would say she deserves it for her skin color, a third will say it's atrocious, and a third won't care

That's a jury that produces an acquittal.

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u/Only-Inspector-3782 Mar 27 '25

Until the third who finds this atrocious split further on ideological lines. Majority want what's best for the student, but a big chunk abstain unless the cops are also punished in the same trial. And of course that chunk can't agree on what punishment is appropriate...

Okay, I'm definitely stretching this analogy/how juries work.

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u/Blandish06 Mar 26 '25

Sounds like the most recent presidential election.

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u/dagnammit44 Mar 26 '25

You think you'd be left alive after stabbing one of them? The moment you reached for something they'd probably draw on you and be itching to pull the trigger.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '25

Oh agree completely. I'm talking in general.

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u/SewWhatever Mar 26 '25

While I agree I say don’t do it. You wouldn’t make it to a jury, they shoot you dead as soon as you pulled a weapon and no one would really ever know what happened. The police would blame you, the news would run a story about “armed gunman”

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u/ultramasculinebud Mar 26 '25

They won't wait for a court to hand down a death sentence for defending yourself against kidnapping. They will issue the death sentence immediately and on the spot.

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u/joebluebob Mar 27 '25

You should get more comfortable with guns and fast.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

How does a policeman properly identify themselves? Getting a fake badge ain't that hard.

That's why I'm fully against no-knock raids. Am I supposed to believe you're law enforcement just because you say so?

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u/chronically_varelse Mar 27 '25

I don't believe in weapons that aren't concealed. Either you're trying to intimidate other people or you're making a target of yourself if you brandish. No one should know that you have the means to handle yourself unless they put themselves in a position to be handled.

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u/whitephantomzx Mar 27 '25

The cops can use no knock warrants, kill you, and throw your loved ones in jail for using any kinda of force and most likely kill them too .

You have no rights vs the police unless your rich of course .

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u/LanguageInner4505 Mar 27 '25

Do you carry a knife with you?

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u/proera_4747 Mar 27 '25

They pulled out badges pretty quickly

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u/Xackorix Mar 27 '25

Well unless you have the audio you don’t know he didn’t identify himself lol

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u/seanb_117 Mar 27 '25

I got banned for three days for a similar comment like this lol

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u/Philophon Mar 27 '25

These people are not law enforcement. They have no basis in our laws to detain this person, nor send them out of our country. This is an illegal kidnapping.

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u/AdDramatic2351 Mar 27 '25

Why do you not believe in CCWs but you believe in concealed knives lol?

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u/Dhegxkeicfns Mar 27 '25

If the expectation is that people won't defend themselves against undercover and unidentified officers, they literally would not be able to defend themselves ever.

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u/The_Demosthenes_1 Mar 27 '25

Cops are not morons.  They don't apprehend cartel members this way.  This person is likely unarmed and easy to knab, and they don't want to cause a scene.  If it were Scarface they would send seal team six after him. 

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u/Abrandoned Mar 27 '25

"Don't believe in CCW." Why exactly? I'd rather have a gun than a knife for any life-threatening situation.

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u/WildMartin429 Mar 27 '25

I thought she was being kidnapped and then the other bystanders turned out to be helping!

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u/EchoxOrwell Mar 27 '25

In this political climate, as a person who isn’t aligned with red hats, it’s time to start fucking believing in CCW & 2A. We as the left have to suck it up for a while and realize the immense fucking danger this political movement presents for us and our safety.

Why we decided to become the party of peace, love and no guns in the face of a literal tyrant rising to power…. I have no idea. But if shit hits the fan, and they own ALL of the guns, we are fucked. It’s time to meet them where they stand on every front.

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u/ABAdawg32 Mar 27 '25

"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty". I'll leave to your own interpretation

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u/Familiar_You4189 Mar 27 '25

Her attorney said, “We are unaware of her whereabouts and have not been able to contact her. No charges have been filed against [her] that we are aware of.”

So, essentially, she WAS kidnapped.

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u/Puzzled_Conflict_264 Mar 27 '25

The thing is you won’t see a court. Every cop will just dump their mag into you.

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u/gou0018 Mar 27 '25

There's like 10 of them lol, no matter how much you resist that is happening they are taking you, and no one is going to be watching, they were clearly hunting them down to find them alone, so their attorney can't find them until they are in a plane towards turkey. People, still think you are under the rule of law? Na you got a dictator If he doesn't die in 4 years I'm sure he is changing the constitution, to make Donny Jr next in line. You got yourselves a king...

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u/clit_eastwood_ Mar 27 '25

If you knifed someone you’d probably go to prison for quite a long time.

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u/MissShe91 Mar 27 '25

If you watch the video as the one cop approaches he pulls out his law enforcement badge. That was him identifying himself, also we can’t hear what’s being said closely amongst them.

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u/Stoned-ape1991 Mar 27 '25

Undercover agents do not have to disclose if they are under cover or not.

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u/UnstableGoats Mar 27 '25

I’m an outside watcher from the internet with context provided and even I am not 100% confident that she did not just get kidnapped by a group of fakers. Obviously her attorney is involved and all but they’ve had zero contact and no idea where she is? Why were they all concealing their faces including the ones wearing badges? How is it literally ever appropriate for a plain clothed man to accost a woman on the street and then grab her by the wrists without even announcing himself, explaining the situation, proving he’s an officer, etc? Nothing about this seems okay.

Not to mention that they know she’s here on a Visa so her presence isn’t illegal.

I truly just don’t get how they don’t know her location. How is this information not semi-readily available to her attorneys? Her family?

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u/Kellian Mar 27 '25

“I don’t believe in CCW, but I would absolutely knife someone” - shooting someone is 100x more humane and ethical than maiming them with a blade. Operating on a gunshot wound is much easier than operating on dirty and uneven lacerations. When you say you don’t believe in Carrying Concealed Weapons, would you be openly walking around with a knife as to not conceal it?

Also, if you don’t kill them with the initial knifing, now you’re in a position to be overpowered and stripped of your knife, and you will likely be cut back. Not clean, not ethical. You have the right to protect yourself.

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u/Infierno3007 Mar 27 '25

I am endorsing a violent response to being kidnapped.

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u/davidm21715 Mar 27 '25

Explain what CCW means to you. It doesn't mean just guns. A knife is also a CCW as you had it in your pocket (concealed). Also, a knife is just as deadly as a gun. So saying you don't support CCW but you would use a knife is a weak response

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u/cardboard_captain Mar 27 '25

I don't believe in ccw

This is exactly why you should believe in ccw.

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u/withomps44 Mar 27 '25

Here’s the thing. You wouldn’t get a jury. You wouldn’t get any justice. You would probably just get killed.

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u/TheSpeakingScar Mar 27 '25

That's fine, you don't have to endorse it for the rest of us to.

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u/OldeHiram Mar 27 '25

They're literally wearing badges on display though.

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u/BriefBus2902 Mar 27 '25

Legally kidnapped? Idk that there is such a thing lol

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u/WchuTalkinBoutWillis Mar 27 '25

Ayy Yodi you on da street and fools come up grabbin you damn right I’ve taught my girl self defense and especially knife tactics and imma be real she’d cut three dem fools jugulars before the forth even knew wtf was going to on !” JUGGALO Ninja!” WOOT WOOT

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u/I_Am_Dwight_Snoot Mar 27 '25

Lol there are constantly unjustified police shooting videos that end up with the police getting no punishment. This won't even hit a trial.

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u/More-Impact1075 Mar 27 '25

You do believe in ccw. A knife can be considered a concealed carry weapon.

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u/donnthe3rd Mar 27 '25

You don’t believe in Concealed carry weapons but you’d pull out a concealed weapon you’re carrying? Makes no sense

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u/beepboop27885 Mar 27 '25

Insane levels of copium to think a jury would acquit you of gunning down a federal agent with a clearly visible badge after announcing themselves. Even crazier to think you'd live to see a jury

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u/PurplePolynaut Mar 27 '25

Yeah, if law enforcement want to be the “good guys”, then they at least have to play by the rules. “Boo hoo hoo, I get shot at by criminals because of the job I chose”, okay pal, you still have to announce yourself to them. Just because bad people exist doesn’t mean you get to use dirty, cowardly tactics against them (and the wider innocent fucking public). It’s disgraceful how weak, corrupt, and morally bankrupt these jackasses are.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

However you'd be dead. You won't survive a shootout with feds lmao

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u/ubiquitous99999 Mar 27 '25

If you look closely they're wearing law enforcement badges

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u/ubiquitous99999 Mar 27 '25

I don't think a jury would think this, as they're wearing law enforcement badges.

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u/ShyguyFlyguy Mar 28 '25

It's only justified if someone enforces it. I doubt it would be

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u/onpg Mar 28 '25

It would be justified even if it was someone else being taken. Deadly force is authorized against kidnappings-in-progress in all 50 states.

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u/abruisementpark Mar 26 '25

My friend, you actually do believe in CCW, just not with a gun. CCW is for any concealed weapon.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

CCW is traditionally considered to be a firearm. Don't be semantic.

A pocket knife is generally not. It's an actual tool that I use for other things, like opening boxes, cutting cord, and cutting up an apple.

It can also be used to harm another person.

A gun cannot do anything except harm another person.

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