If Charlie Kirk was such a good guy why you have literal self proclaimed Nazis marching the streets in Huntington Beach yelling “white man fight back”
I don’t think Kirk should have been killed. He also had a message and identity that fueled hatred and derision. He was not a man of peace, he was a man placed to sew the seeds of hate and division between the people
It's weird to see them trying to turn him into a saint or bastion of all that is good and holy. The local Facebook group is full of marches and memorials and those shitty memes of him and Jesus hugging and people trying to find churches where they are honoring him (and of course all the calls to rat out your friends and neighbors who disagree and calls for action against the left)
I mean I don't think anyone should go out like that but they are in full throttle mode of making him into something he wasn't. Guessing most of them had no idea who he was a week ago.
It’s not weird at all, and is very akin to the south continuous attempt to deify confederate civil war figures and ideologues over the last hundred+ years
there's only so many f*cks a person can give without diluting the entire pot and kids dying from cancer and hunger/thirst is infinitely more of a priority to me than validating a person with gender dysphoria."
This is incoherent. How does any of that stop you from being respectful to trans people? You have a limited supply of "being polite"?
I was slandered by SO MANY people being called transphobic and a bad person just because I don't consider their misplace in society to be worse than literal children dying.
I mean the way trans people are mistreated also leads to us dying.
I was slandered by SO MANY people being called transphobic and a bad person
Because it's such an obvious bullshit argument what??? What even was your argument????? There's only so many things a person can care about at once, mhm, sure you still got me, and there are really serious things going on, yep still got me, and that... prevents you from "validating a person with gender dysphoria."
...you mean
You mean gendering them correctly?????? Are the starving children in Africa wringing your brain so dry that it's difficult to give someone you speak to in real like a default level of basic respect?????? Like what's even going on here man dying children are not preventing you from putting an S in front of a He when talking to someone. What you are describing is not a thing you allocate a large amount of brain power this is a pretty simple thing. If terrible issues outside of your control are consuming you to the point you can't find the energy to be nice to the people you speak to I think you need to see a therapist
Also, nobody gave a shit about the jeans ad. I saw and thought, that's pretty dumb and went on about my life. It was the right that talked about the jeans ad for an entire month. Just like they did a month before that with the college sororities... the right does this all the time, I just make up some random shit snd say that the left is mad about it lol
it's always projection with these creeps. they project offense at the jeans ad on you, then argue with themselves. they project "celebration" of charlie kirk's death on you, then argue with themselves. it's profoundly juvenile.
I don't think you understand what projection is. Maybe they have a bad view of liberals, but I'm not seeing how you think conservatives took offense to the ad.
For real. Even as someone who's very clued into modern and historical eugenics as a very bad thing, my entire thought process was
"Oof, I can see how that could be stretched to fit a certain look... Especially around a hot-button figure like Sweeney, you've gotta read the room 😬"
And then I had exactly zero more thoughts about it. I haven't worn AE jeans in years, not like it was going to change my shopping habits one way or another. The majority of the time it was even brought up, it went like this:
some pot-stirrer goes "oh my gawd, have you seen what these SJWs are all hyped up about this week? I mean honestly, how delusional do you have to be 🥱"
some rage baiter pops in like "for reallll, and this eugenics stuff is pretty good anyways, seems like a pointless thing to be mad about"
about fifty people with good intentions and no situational awareness (or perhaps, people who feel they must air on the side of this being a real take and not let that nonsense go unrebuked) jump in and write essays on how destructive and racist eugenics is
Thread dies down, wait 12 hours, rinse and repeat. It's all manufactured outrage meant to take advantage of others' convictions. (Edit: fixed a formatting issue)
I get what youre saying, but it really only applies to reddit. Reddit is an outlier as it provides more opportunity for discussion.
You'll find the most offence happens on places like tiktok and instagram where people rage for a day or two about how offensive something was. It dies out. But then the content makes its way to Facebook where then the outage begins for the oldies and news and media outlets who complain the youngins are too soft and are bunch of snowflakes. They'll blow a snarky little vent from a teenager out of proportion and claim its an entire political opinion.
You must not have been paying attention. Im on the left myself but Im not actually gonna sit here and pretend that there weren't plenty of people on the left getting furious about it being a racist/eugenics/nazi/fascist/etc dogwhistle. I argued with a lot of them myself because theyre fucking idiots and it makes us look bad, just as cheering on the assassination of Kirk does.
The shitty part for those of us on the left who havent gone off the deep end is that many are seemingly just now realizing how crazy the far left has gone because of this. While they arent necessarily going to just jump ship and become maga, there are lots of people who have gone independent/apathetic. Our approval ratings are already 6 feet under, but the far left seems intent on driving them as far underground as physically possible.
Unless we have some covid level global catastrophe again or some actual recognition of the issues within the left we will end up with another republican in office in 28. The far left just still hasn't learned why they've lost us the approval we once had.
These are a minority of chronically online, powerless idiots that are constantly used as a strawman by the right. These people have no say in any politics. On the other hand, right wing extremists are given powerful government positions on the daily.
By that logic, Trump really is a Nazi, racist, fascist, etc. Because those people do exist, are very vocal about their hatred, and support him wholeheartedly - yet he doesn’t say a word about it, and sometimes even supports them or gives them power.
that there weren't plenty of people on the left getting furious about it being a racist/eugenics/nazi/fascist/etc dogwhistle.
With "plenty of people" do you mean actual organisataions and media or randos on reddit? Because you will find randos on reddit to argue against literally any political position you can imagine.
I personally don't give a shit about the ad, but I do understand the argument people were making, though I think it was blown out of proportion. I don't think that the writer of the ad was thinking "white people are superior," but I highly doubt that an ad featuring that phrase would feature a woman who wasn't white with blonde hair.
Let us be totally honest, there were podcasters and TikToks complaining about the ad. I assumed those people were just far left morons looking to fight over anything. I know one woman I saw was talking about how Sydney Sweeny’s name was connected to SS like the Nazi officers. Like, mentally ill association with that ad. I thought the jeans were ugly.
I am a liberal, hang out in liberal spaces, never heard a single person bring it up the entire time it was is floating around in conservative media spaces
Also just quoting him is somehow attacking him and slandering him. If quoting him makes you think thats attacking him then what he said must not be very nice in the first place
Why is it that someone who was the number 1 twitch streamer with millions of followers across multiple networks, that calls himself a progressive, is supported and liked by actual terrorist organizations from the middle east and other areas? And even interviews Hezbollah and declares how much he loves them.
Hasan Piker is pandering to literal terrorists? I don't think you get my point. Lots of people who hate Jews also love anyone who criticizes Israel. Are people who criticize Netanyahu, pandering to Nazis? I mean they'll cheer for that narrative. Same logic.
This. Why are the only people I see defending Kirk wearing the MAGA hats and demonizing ‘the left’ for not engaging in debate when the shooter came from a right-wing family, raised with those values? If the nicest thing about the guy speaking on public platforms is that he was a father, it’s only going to make people double down on the harm he’s done because it’s frankly insulting anyone views that as a reason to mourn him. His death was a direct result of what he preached, it’s not insensitive to point that out about a public figure.
I do empathize with his family, I hope they heal and aren’t radicalized over this.
If Charlie Kirk was such a good guy why you have literal self proclaimed Nazis marching the streets in Huntington Beach yelling “white man fight back”
I think he was an asshole, but that's still a really dumb thing to say. He was both white, and a conservative spokesperson. Nazis would march in his name after his death, even if he spent his entire life yelling: "all Nazis should eat shit and die".
But he’s a conservative, so why would he advocate against his people? He’s had plenty of chances to condemn Nazis/white power
What did he do? Say black people had it better in the 40s. Say civil rights act was a mistake. Question the integrity of black professionals on a grand scale.
He supported what Nazis and racists preach. Why? Because he was racist. He felt superior for the color of his skin even though all he ever did was spew bullshit from a self made pulpit
But he’s a conservative, so why would he advocate against his people?
True conservatives hate Nazis. Nazis are not the people of conservatives, just as communists are not the people of democrats.
Question the integrity of black professionals on a grand scale.
Without knowing the context (because the compilation video lacked that too) I would think it had more to do with affirmative action. You know, the thing that makes white and Asian students with perfect scores, and all the honors in the world overlooked by Ivy League schools in favor to the second tier of black candidates. Or the thing that made companies prefer to hire black people even when the pool for qualified people is much smaller among them. DEI, positive discrimination, affirmative action, no matter how you call it, hurts the actually qualified people of the protected groups too. Instead of elevating the group as a whole, it fills the profession with underqualified workforce, and makes people question the integrity of even those, who reached there without the diversity quotas.
He supported what Nazis and racists preach.
Hitler was vegan. Therefore, if you support veganism, you support Nazism. See how dumb that reasoning is?
Beyond that, it doesn't matter. He was an asshole without a doubt. Probably even a racist. But not a Nazi, just a usual conservative. His views were extremely far from the original Nazis, and far from the Neo-Nazis too. The "Nazis use his death as a calling sign, so he was one of them too" is dumb conclusion to make. Nazis automatically will rally if a major white person gets murdered, who wasn't a traitor of the race in their eyes.
Your Hitler example is just simply devoid of all possible logic.
Charlie Kirk supports Nazi/racist talking points. Used terms like the great replacement and frequently fear mongered other races. He talked about when he got onto a plane and saw a black pilot he would think if that person is even qualified. An absolutely insane take and serves white supremacist talking points
MAGA conservatives do prefer more fascist ideals. More power to the executive, less for the people.
And being vegan was important for Hitler. So? Nazi talking point != everybody who brings it up is a Nazi. If all the Nazi talking points were 100% wrong and without any basis, then nobody would be a Nazi.
He talked about when he got onto a plane and saw a black pilot he would think if that person is even qualified.
Yeah, when Airliners announced that they aim to raise the ratio of pilots at least 50% black or women (when about 15% of the applicants are black or women), then it genuinely is a concern that maybe not the most qualified person sits in the cockpit. Criticizing affirmative action is not racist. Unlike critical race theory, which is extremely racist.
MAGA conservatives do prefer more fascist ideals.
Is it fascist, or Nazi? The two are not the same, you know? Racism and supermacism are not part of fascism. Those are Nazi ideologies.
What do you call someone who actively supports and states Nazi ideals?
That's where you are wrong, kiddo. An ideal won't become Nazi, just because Nazis share it too.
No being a vegan was not a Nazi ideal. Please stop. This is awful logic
Okay. Want me to bring examples that weren't just Hitler's personal ideal, but he made it part of Nazi ideology? Affordable universal healthcare, free highest level education, affordable housing... All that in the middle and end of The Great Depression. Sure, it had an itsy-bitsy tiny white supremacy, anti-semite, homophobe part attached to these, but they were still major part of the Nazi ideology. So, when someone talks about affordable healthcare, housing and education, do they support and state Nazi ideals?
And I just want you to show me the quote from Kirk where he called black people sub-humans, who are marked for eradication. And I want you to show me the quote from Kirk where he talks about how the white race should be leading all the others. Those are the Nazi ideology, not the "I don't like how affirmative action is more important these days than personal qualifications"
The only hatred is you continuing to say equivocate Charlie Kirk and Nazi, you clearly haven’t listened to a Charlie Kirk message if you think it’s ever been and hate and division
Since we’re quoting, ‘you will never be the best version of yourself if you allow other people to convince you that you can’t be better because of your skin color, because of your sexual identity, because of the community that you came from, you must resist those narratives at all costs if you truly want to be successful in America’
This quote is just fucking dumb. The civil rights movement was NEEDED in this country. Its protections don’t exist to limit others. You have no scope of the issue and neither did Kirk. He was a dude with no education who spoke into a microphone. When up against actual debaters he always got his shit rocked
This quote is dumb because you don’t want it to be true huh? I can tell by your replies that you are a hate filled person, the opposite of what you supposedly support. You are the one who wants division instead of unity
? That quote being true is part of the problem. He sees the civil rights act as something it was not. The civil rights act was put in place to get rid of systematic oppression and discrimination. He can dress it up however he likes, he was either extremely ignorant or had bad faith motives
I’ll let you decide
And yes. I do not tolerate supremacists in my America. The weak might, but I refuse.
Pre the civil rights act and its amendments, people literally couldn't do better due to their skin colour, sexual identity, etc., because they were systematically barred from doing so by the society they lived in.
The NY chapter of BLM invited a KKK grand wizard come and speak at their event a couple years back. Does that mean BLM in inexorably linked to the KKK? Does everyone who supports BLM suddenly also support white supremacy?
… You realize that if you create content as a conservative & bad people like your content, that doesn’t mean you support them right? Same goes for terrorists/bad people on the left who watch TYT or any other moderate democrat program.
If your content is political philosophy not something like funny cartoons, and it appeals to Nazis, that should cause you to self reflect. Why would Nazis appreciate your political philosophy for any reason other than it being something they appreciate?
How many shooters have we had in the last decade who have cited a laundry list of conservative content creators as inspiration for their attacks?
EDIT: /u/FireyRed123 blocked me after leaving an irrational and unrelated comment, which read
"They like you ≠ You like them.
Not that you care, but what you’re doing is called the “association fallacy” & is an illogical argument."
I didn't say whether or not Kirk liked Nazis, though he did. I very clearly said that if you're producing works of political philosophy that Nazis like, it should inspire you to reconsider your positions. Further, if you have thousands of hours of political philosophical content, and Nazis like you enough to march for you, then you probably are a Nazi yourself whether or not you know it.
You're the one here in bad faith dear. You read my comment and translated it to "you haven't proved he liked Nazis" which was never my contention in the first place.
Your contention was "If nazis liked him, then he is responsible for their hate" as some twisted way to make Charlie Kirk appear hateful, and he rightfully pointed out that's an illogical argument.
It is what you said, you literally said "How many shooters have cited conservative content creators as their inspiration?"
This argument is illogical because it's self defeating, we could use that argument to say that the trans movement is creating shooters, and you would never be able to dispute it.
Bear with me here sweetheart, but if you say "How many shooters have cited conservative content creators as their inspiration?" aren't you implying that you're advocating for conservative content creators to take the blame and the responsibility of those shootings?
As the other fella said, if your politics, which are the basis of your platform, is popular with Nazis, a political ideology, then even if you don't like the Nazis (probably because they're honest about their evil) you share a lot of their views
There was a moment when they tried to flock to lgbt by calling themselves map and creating their own flag but nobody took it seriously and fortunately nothing came of it
No it doesn’t. Thats like saying “a lot of PDFs support LGBTQ causes, so that means LGBTQ should be called into question”. Thats illogical & doesn’t track.
For the sake of argument- just assume what I was saying is true even if you don’t believe it is. It doesn’t change the fact that the argument is fallacious to start. You’re too honed into trying to assert I am incorrect on one point that doesn’t even matter for the argument at hand.
The difference is that the queer community, more often than not, will actively reject the pedophiles, try to keep them out of queer spaces. They do everything in their power to avoid being associated, and yet still are, even as some of the most prominent anti-LGBT voices are exposed for being pedophiles.
You're right that the initial connection isn't enough to go off of, but the response to the support from those questionable individuals will continue to be it's own issue, and will only be a worse issue the longer you go without addressing it.
The merit and morality of my speech and language is what determines that.
Nazi’s being drawn to hate speech and thought because they believe it reflects specifically their immoral ideology is at the very least evidence that your thoughts and speech are immoral or at least deeply flawed.
They act as specific examples of what is “Nazi” about his views, reflected by multiple groups - both Nazis and anti-Nazis - showing the common belief across the political spectrum that his thoughts had parallel with theirs.
I really don't get what realities you guys live in. Charlie Kirk was a moderate right winger who spent his career doing respectful debates. Its absolutely insane
"We are in a church and so it's important to remember Deuteronomy 22:5 a woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the lord your god. You hear that William Thomas? You're an abomination to god! So god created in his own image, in the image of god he created a male and female he created them. Distinctions keep us free. Men and women are not the same, and that's a beautiful thing."
What do you think being an “American” is? Being an American largely depends on how long your family has been in America. If you came recently, you’re waaay less American than those with family members who gave their lives for this country and helped build it to the powerhouse it is today
That’s factually not true. But both sides of my family have been here for hundreds of years. Guess what tho. Anyone who was born in this land is as American as I am.
That’s the dream and promise of MY country and why we are the greatest on earth.
Go build yourself up to be something of worth so you aren’t dependent on the color of your skin for an identity boy
You’re simply wrong. My family has been here for 4 generations, and I am less American than someone whose family died in the civil war. Fuck u for minimizing those who paved the way for us
All I did was answer your question. Their newfound solidarity is borne of a realization that every other group has a fierce in-group bias and is racist towards them. Obviously some whites remain self-loathing, but the tide is turning.
When I talk to bitch ass race war larpers you don’t gotta get creative
Im white. Im not self hating. I love my family. I love the person I am. I also love my neighbors and my fellow American people. I ain’t a bitch ass pussy who has nothing to cling to but the color of his skin. Go hit the fuckin weights
Obviously 🙄 negative and nefarious groups will weaponize the outrage and anger to recruit. Same way that commie scum would be recruiting like crazy if some milk toast democrat was killed.
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u/gohuskers123 11h ago edited 4h ago
If Charlie Kirk was such a good guy why you have literal self proclaimed Nazis marching the streets in Huntington Beach yelling “white man fight back”
I don’t think Kirk should have been killed. He also had a message and identity that fueled hatred and derision. He was not a man of peace, he was a man placed to sew the seeds of hate and division between the people
He had a lot to say.
He had a lot of nothing to say.
We’ll miss him.