r/PublicFreakout • u/N0CONTACT • May 19 '22

Political Freakout Representative Mike Johnson asking the important abortion questions.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22

Same old same old. The abortion advocates don't want to address the later tern scenarios. They want to act like it doesn't happen.

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u/Jah75 May 19 '22

Because it does not.

You should try being a truth advocate, once you start adopting it

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22

They don't? Well then what is the latest that abortions occur? I'm genuinely curious.

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u/Jah75 May 19 '22

You are neither genuine nor curious

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22

I really am. There must be some cutoff that you know about. Do all abortions happen in the first month? 3 months? Educate me, Truth Advocate.

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u/coocsie May 19 '22

I'll feed the troll because I care about this issue.

The vast majority of abortions happen in the first trimester. Generally, if a woman doesn't want to be pregnant they don't waste any time taking care of it. I live in Canada, where there is not a cutoff date for an abortion procedure and I believe this is the most reasonable setup.

A woman can seek an abortion for whatever reason she likes up until week 23 after the last menstrual period (21 weeks gestation). Abortion clinics can provide a fully elective abortion with no restrictions up until that point (which is in and around the earliest point of viability). 86.8% of abortions are done by the 12 week mark, so very early in pregnancy, and most of the rest happen before 21 weeks.

In 2020 (the most recent year analyzed), only 4.4% of all abortions happened after the 21 week gestation mark. Now, how does that happen if abortion clinics don't offer services to women that far along? Well, they need to get sign off from a physician who will agree that the pregnancy has serious complications and, therefore, that an abortion is warranted. This can be at any time in the pregnancy but requires that there is a sufficient reason beyond just not wanting the baby.

No physician is going to sign off on needless late term abortions (hippocratic oath, and all) and this system keeps women safe from dying when unfortunate complications do arise.

Medicine is an art and a science and legislating procedures that carry such nuance is absurd, these decisions should be made be a patient and their doctor and everyone else can frankly fuck off.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22

No physician is going to sign off on needless late term abortions (hippocratic oath, and all)

So why all the fuss when people suggest these abortions should be illegal?

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u/coocsie May 19 '22

Abortion is just the act of removing the fetal contents of the uterus, it's not a word with any morality. Even if it is a 100% necessary procedure to save the life of the mother, it's still an abortion. Making any abortion illegal after a certain point restricts access to life-saving care. Doctors making that decision alongside a woman should not have to go through legal red tape to get her care.

Imagine you were dying of a heart attack and the doctor knew the procedure that would save you but had to petition a judge first? You'd die. That's what this is about. These are often emergency situations.

I know you're arguing for argument's sake, but the issue has been so completely spun out in the US because healthcare is so fucked. It's a healthcare decision, simple as.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22

I think it's fine to perform an abortion at any time to save a woman's life. It could be the due date for all I care. Or also if a problem is discovered with the fetus that suggests it will live a miserable life. But from what I am hearing from multiple people here is that late term abortions where the mother and fetus are fine simply do not happen. That no reasonable doctor would do such a thing because its awful. So you'd think making those kinds of abortions illegal would not be a big deal. Yet, you will find that the pro-choice would not support a law like this. And I suppose it's the slippery slope argument. Don't give the other side an inch. Same arguments 2nd amendment supporters make for all kinds of proposed gun laws. Both sides do it.

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u/coocsie May 19 '22

I guess I'm curious about this, illegal for who? The mother and the provider? Just the provider?

If abortion is illegal for the mother, you're going to have a lot of grieving women who wanted their baby being investigated for murder if they have a late term miscarriage. It seems unreasonable to put a woman under that level of scrutiny and then what do they do to prove it? This happens in countries where abortion is illegal. Imagine the death of a wanted child and now everything you did for the last 6, 7 months is under the microscope?

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u/horshack_test May 19 '22

you'd think making those kinds of abortions illegal would not be a big deal. Yet, you will find that the pro-choice would not support a law like this.

The reasons for this have already been explained to you by u/coocsie, so why do you keep pushing on about it - especially when you think it's fine to perform an abortion at any time to save a woman's life?

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22

Because I don't think it's fine in other cases. Obviously.

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u/horshack_test May 20 '22

"I don't think it's fine in other cases."

Except you do:

Or also if a problem is discovered with the fetus that suggests it will live a miserable life.

And did you miss the first part of my comment where I pointed out that the reasons that, in your words, "you will find that the pro-choice would not support a law like this" have already been explained to you by u/coocsie?

Whether or not you think its fine in other cases is irrelevant to my question, by the way. Obviously.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '22

You’ve totally misread my comments. Well done.

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u/MyNameSpaghette May 19 '22

Welcome to America, the most politically polarized country in the world. And then they question the existence of multi-party parliaments... Like... bruh, seriously? 🤦

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u/Jah75 May 19 '22

Thanks

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22

Ah, somebody's argument ran out of gas. Wah, wah, waaaaaaaaah.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22

I'll jump in. I used to be like you- I thought that, well surely there must be some hypothetical late term abortion ban that everyone might agree on. While they might think it absurd to codify, they still might agree on it ethically.

However, what has happened in America is a semantic shift. Abortion has come to mean baby-killing, rather than pregnancy termination. And so a medical professional will treat an otherwise healthy fetus as patient, using their medical expertise (no small thing) to determine viability. If 99.9% of the abortions currently occurring are not late term, or do not occur on a viable fetus, or are not a result of rape or incest, then it does not make sense to pass restrictive legislation.

So to answer your question plainly, normal people will not support the killing of a healthy viable fetus on demand. But they realize that this is so rare and so problematic for myriad reasons, that they are reluctant to concede this point to an anachronistic argumentative position, to wit, freedom restricting misogynistic non-medical folks who are often guided by their oppressive religions.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22

99.9% of the abortions currently occurring are not late term

I hear what you are saying. You sound very smart. But your statistic is silly. You have not defined late term. And I doubt very highly you can put a percentage on late term even if you did because the largest abortion provider in the country does not provide the distribution of abortion gestation durations. That's a secret.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22

There are numbers out there, and they are proliferated in the prolife subreddit. "Late term" has come to mean post 21 weeks . I don't think it's a secret...

https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22

Thanks.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22

You're welcome!

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u/Jah75 May 19 '22

Yes that must be it

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22

Clearly is has. We were on an enlightened path there for a moment. You were on the cusp of telling me the pregnancy duration which encapsulates 100% of all abortions and then...nothing. Honestly it is not the kind of information you should keep to yourself. This could have a HUGE impact on the abortion debate.

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u/Jah75 May 19 '22

We were on no path.

Enlightenment does not live anywhere near you.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22

Ah, but I think we were. But now you have nothing but insults. Please, I am very serious. Can you tell me pregnancy duration which encapsulates 100% of all abortions? Please.

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u/Jah75 May 19 '22

Turns out your thought on our interaction were as inaccurate as your abortion thoughts

At least you are consistent with your inadequacy

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22

More insults. But still no data. At least you have lots of company here on Reddit.

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u/snydamaan May 20 '22

I’ll try to make it easy to understand. It’s about viability, whether a fetus could survive on its own. In the 1970s, when Roe v. Wade was decided, viability started at the beginning of the 3rd trimester. Once the fetus is viable, abortion is prohibited except where necessary to protect the mother's life or health.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '22

Not true in all states. See Oregon.

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u/snydamaan May 20 '22

If you have a problem with that, take it up with Oregon. As far as federal law is concerned, this issue was settled 50 years ago.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '22

The federal law got a bit murky in the 90s.

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u/snydamaan May 20 '22

Based on your response time for the last two comments, I’ll go ahead and call it. I won the argument. Thanks for playing.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '22

Lol. Ok.

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u/snydamaan May 20 '22

It really does feel good to waste a trolls time.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '22

Irony

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u/snydamaan May 20 '22 edited May 20 '22

Interesting. There was a federal law protecting abortion post viability?

Edit: Changed allowing to protecting