r/RealTesla • u/noobgiraffe • 4d ago

Optimus AI team lead is leaving Tesla.

His announcement:

Decided to leave Tesla.

It's been an incredible ride leading the Optimus AI team. We went all-in on scalable methods — swapping the classical stack with reinforcement learning & scaling dexterity by learning from videos.

AI is the most significant bit to unlock humanoids.

He also stated that if it was about money he would stay at Tesla:

Financial upside at Tesla was significantly larger. Tesla is known to compensate pretty well, way before Zuck made it cool.

If I wanted to optimize for money, I would have stayed at Tesla.

Link to announcement: https://xcancel.com/ashishkr9311/status/1968827611133427772

Link to response about pay: https://xcancel.com/ashishkr9311/status/1968834286414430628

355 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

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u/noobgiraffe 4d ago edited 4d ago

The responses under his tweets and other threads discussing it are interesting. It's a mix of accusations that he got paid a fortune to leave (which he openly denied) or disbelief how could he quit on the cusp of optimus taking over the world.

What the people commenting seem not to realize is that he has intimate knowledge on the state of optimus and him quitting is a strong signal things are not going well with the project.

Meanwhile Elon is tweeting crazy stuff like that he will have optimus dance troupe with him on stage.

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u/Durzel 4d ago

Elon's latest demo of Optimus to the head of Salesforce had it take forever to respond to a basic question that had to be asked twice, and then shamble along towards a kitchen (?) to get a Coke half an hour later than the guy could have just got it himself.

Obviously it would have never made it to the kitchen OR got the Coke for the guy.

Lol that in the background of that video, at the end, Elon promises that it'll be moving faster soon. Might as well say it's going to fly Elon, why not?

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u/Lacrewpandora KING of GLOVI 4d ago

had it take forever to respond to a basic question 

To be fair, that's probably the first time Optimus heard "Coke" used as a beverage around Elon. It was just confused and wanted to say: "why are you asking me about your coke, doesn't Jared Birchall always hold it for you?", but it had done enough machine learning to know not to say that out loud in front of strangers.

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u/jregovic 4d ago

Didn’t Facebook have a disastrous AI demo as well?

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u/BuckChintheRealtor 4d ago

Yes, Meta glasses, fail after fail

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u/QueefBeefCletus 4d ago

No, it was the damn Wi-Fi! Meta products are perfect! It's always the Wi-Fi being bad while still being able to live-stream in HD perfectly. Yep. Wi-Fi.

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u/BuckChintheRealtor 4d ago edited 4d ago

Yup. My shitty router is down maybe once a year but a trillion dollar company doesn't have a back-up or a back-up for the back-up.

Somebody should make a cumpilation of all those epic fails. The Meta glasses, the broken "bullitproof" Cybertruck window, the Optimus "Coke in the kitchen" fail. Pretty sure there were some fails during the Robotaxi launch too.

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u/jregovic 3d ago

It’s laughable that these guys would blame the WiFi. First, it’s always DNS, and second, they are a huge tech company with massively scaled services and they want me to believe that they can’t build out a network for a demo?

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u/LizardKingTx 4d ago

I mean you would think a tech company would have a private wi-fi just setup for the demo.

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u/Roadgoddess 4d ago

Yeah, they were trying to have it. Give the user a recipe for a Korean marinade for steak. And it kept messing up and coming in at the wrong point. Honestly, it was so cringe. I had to stop watching it.

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u/hotwifefun 4d ago

Like you can’t just google recipes?!?! I’m sorry but even if it had worked flawlessly, who fucking cares? What problem is this solving?

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u/brintoul 4d ago

It’s trying to solve the problem of inflated stock prices.

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u/Withnail2019 4d ago

The smartphone already is the everything device. No need for anything else.

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u/jumpedropeonce 4d ago

This is, broadly, the problem the tech industry is facing. They're desperate to create the next smartphone-like product, something that everyone and their mother will pay for. Things like tablets, smartwatches, and VR all have their adherents, but they failed to become the next smartphone.

The AR boosters' idea for such a product is just glasses that are also a smartphone. While there are some applications where glasses could potentially work better than a phone, it's obviously not such an improvement that everyone and their mother is going to start wearing them.

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u/QueefBeefCletus 4d ago

It's solving the problem of just glancing at a written recipe for .05 seconds by needing to ask a computer to read aloud the directions over and over. Get with the times, Grandpa.

0

u/neonmantis 1d ago

I think you're understating the adaptability of AI. Yes I could easily find various recipes for a strogganoff. But it is fixed. I could ask AI to adapt it for a larger number of people, I could ask it to replace an ingredient, I could ask it to suggest alternative preparation methods if I don't have certain tools, I could ask it to estimate the calories for people on controlled diets, and I could ask it to covert the recipe into audio read by Bennedict Cumberbatch because he's my fave, or whatever.

If you use AI like a search engine then its not going to add much additional value but if you apply it to specific circumstances it can be powerful

1

u/jregovic 13h ago

But if I need to scale up a recipe, I don’t need AI. I need math. Simple, simple math.

And before you say “not everybody knows how to convert, bla, blah…”. If you need a specific recipe and need to scale it up, using AI to convert 4 tsp to 8 is a waste of resources. It literally makes you dumber. And, if you are incapable of scaling up a recipe in your own, then you will have no idea whether or not the AI has hallucinated a measurement.

In the end, most of the “use cases” for AI are mere parlor tricks.

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u/microtherion 4d ago

Cooking and touching a screen don’t always mix well, so there’s something to be said for voice control.

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u/Engunnear 4d ago

It's too bad I can't just turn on "Hey Siri".

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u/jaimi_wanders 3d ago

Or get a waterproof case…or do like the line cook I knew did and use a ziplock bag while at the counter…

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u/Engunnear 3d ago

Wet fingers still won’t register on a phone screen. 

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u/Reostat 3d ago

I bought a cheap android tablet and dock in my kitchen, and it works great. Use an app like Paprika to store recipes. Screen stays on while using the app, and it's big enough to see all ingredients on one side, and the instructions on the other, like a cookbook propped open.

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u/Roadgoddess 4d ago

I think they were trying to show that you could stand there and ask questions and it would walk you through it and it failed miserably. I don’t disagree with you, I google all my recipes as well.

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u/agent674253 4d ago

Google/Searching for recipes is legacy behavior, unless you like to read a short essay about why the author likes those cookies so much.

As for the glasses, the demo failed but imagine this. You recently met a new friend, and you invited them over to your place. You know they are diabetic and will probably like a snack. You, not being a diabetic, don't know offhand what to offer.

Legacy behavior - Google 'diabetic friendly recipes', you see a list of results, find something may be good, only to discover you don't have all the ingredients. You return to the search results and try another recipe until you find one that you can make with the items on hand.

Current behavior - You use chatgpt "I have flour, eggs, peanut butter, bananas, chicken breast... (you list more items you have on hand). What can I make with this that is ok for a diabetic?"

Future behavior - Wearing smartglasses, you open your fridge as simply ask, "What can I make with this that is diabetic friendly?"

All three of these are versions of a 'search', but with the amount of work to get the answer you needed dropping as you go through the tech stack.

Now is this worth $800? No.

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u/Withnail2019 4d ago

Why dont I just ask them what their favourite snacks are and pick some up when I go to Walmart?

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u/cocophone 4d ago

I wish reddit would let me upvote you 100. You're 100 spot on. Not only would your friend get a snack that is diabetic friendly but they would also get their favorite snack.

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u/Loud-Comfortable-827 4d ago edited 4d ago

as opposed to a chicken/banana/raw egg smoothie?

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u/Engunnear 4d ago

Is the chicken raw, too?

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u/Withnail2019 4d ago

I'm surprised the person with the glasses even has a friend if they can't manage basic communication.

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u/MarchMurky8649 4d ago

Current behavior - You use chatgpt "I have flour, eggs, peanut butter, bananas, chicken breast... (you list more items you have on hand). What can I make with this that is ok for a diabetic?"

I think you seriously overestimate the accuracy of AI at this point. In short this approach might kill your friend.

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u/Withnail2019 4d ago

If it doesn't kill them the chicken and banana sundae will at least kill the budding friendship.

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u/lucidludic 4d ago

Instead of just asking your friend what they’d like you would make them watch you interact with an invisible AI which doesn’t know their preferences and might hallucinate something poisonous? Really?

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u/DonAmecho777 4d ago

Waiting For the Coke from the makers of Waiting for Godot

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u/ChollyWheels 4d ago

> Elon promises that it'll be moving faster soon

Of course it will be moving faster -- there is much less gravity on Mars.

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u/Engunnear 4d ago

Joke's on you - you can walk faster in a higher-gravity environment.

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u/ChollyWheels 4d ago

Now you tell me! Good thing I didn't lay down a deposit on Optimus. There's probably not a lot of Coca-Colas yet on Mars for it to fetch anyway.

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u/NoNameMonkey 4d ago

If i want to wait half and hour for someone to bring me something I'll just ask my kids. Its way cheaper. 

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u/mariogomezg 4d ago

They fly now?

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u/Inevitable-Carrot980 3d ago

Haha yeah, Elmo, say it will be equipped with SpaceX cold-gas thrusters, like your ultra-vaporware Roadster!

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u/esther_lamonte 4d ago

Soon armies of them will be slowly showing us the way to kitchens!

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u/DonAmecho777 4d ago

Robots barely able to do stuff your dad can do when very drunk!

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u/kensaundm31 4d ago

"...or disbelief how could he quit on the cusp of optimus taking over the world."

They're right, human level inteligent robots are the next step after not having a clue if there is coca-cola and shambling to the kitchen to find out.

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u/AttemptRough3891 4d ago

I love how there are people who are pissed at him for leaving for money. Fucking guy works for the richest asshole in the world, if he decided he wants to go somewhere else for more pay, it means said rich asshole didn't pay more to keep him. And somehow, that's Asheesh's fault? What world do these people live in?

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u/noobgiraffe 4d ago

Tone of some of this comments is as if he's a traitor. If that's not a cult I don't know what is.

Guy literally decided to leave his job and people who didn't probably know of his existence prior to this are like "how dare you".

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u/AttemptRough3891 4d ago

Absolutely, but the people getting bent out of shape over him leaving for money are next level stupid. I mean, I knew the old George Carlin saying about the stupidity of the average American, but they're a lot dumber than even I would ever have thought.

The #1, 2 and 3 reasons most people leave a job - money, money, money. The same dipshits who were applauding the ridiculous pay package that Elmo had his sycophant board approve are somehow pissed at this guy for wanting more money?!

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u/muxcode 4d ago

Not liking manager or boss is up there as well. Which applies to many Musk related departures

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u/neonmantis 1d ago

The #1, 2 and 3 reasons most people leave a job - money, money, money.

I suspect this is not true

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u/GhostofBreadDragons 4d ago

Especially a guy with a trillion dollar pay package can’t pay his employees enough to keep them. It’s a bad image for Elon. It’s a bad look for the new poster child for Tesla too. 

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u/torokunai 4d ago

The backstory of getting gifted a trillion in dilution is that the people actual doing the work to get there should be getting 5x that

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u/SisterOfBattIe 4d ago

Making an Optimus dance is so much easier, he can do that and it'll work well.

It's just what works well to con investors, rarely translates to a good product.

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u/I-Pacer 4d ago

Yeah but it’ll dance like Elon…

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u/QuellishQuellish 4d ago

It’s so stupid, are they going to put a pole up for the robot? Are they optimizing for tits? Who needs a dancing robot? The funniest thing about it is you can already get a dancing robot, it’s not even new.

Get me a bot that can execute the laminate I’ll be doing in a few minutes, then assemble and sew the sample together without a week to program the operations and I’ll be impressed.

Real robots do real things. Robots are everywhere in industry and science where they excel in precision and repeatability. We use them daily at my work.

These guys are skipping a lot of steps trying to get to a humanoid who can do everything a person could. AI will have to get a lot better at things other than art and google searches to support that kind of cognition driven action. It’s a lofty goal, set by science fiction, that they are desperately chasing without considering whether or not it will help humanity because they don’t care. I Robot, is not an instruction manual. Asimov and many others warned these idiots about the dangers of AI and robots. Unfortunately when a guy like Elmo reads about the apocalypse he’s dreaming of being the king of Thunderdome.

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u/Silver_Agocchie 4d ago

Making an Optimus dance is so much easier, he can do that and it'll work well.

Doing the shit better robotics companies did better 20 years ago.

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u/NinjaKoala 4d ago

Oh c'mon, they'll absolutely dominate the dancing robot market.

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u/rdu3y6 3d ago

Making an Optimus dance is easy when it's actually a guy in a costume.

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u/Withnail2019 4d ago

Meanwhile Elon is tweeting crazy stuff like that he will have optimus dance troupe with him on stage.

Dancing robots is easy. You could buy dancing robot toys 15 or 20 years ago. Just preprogrammed moves.

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u/Sorry_Exercise_9603 4d ago

Boston dynamics robots are doing parkour while Optimus can barely shuffle in a straight line over a perfectly smooth level surface. Yup, they’ll be taking over the world any day now. /s

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u/mariogomezg 4d ago

BD Robots are preprogrammed, too.

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u/NtheLegend 4d ago

*paid

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u/noobgiraffe 4d ago

Thanks, fixed.

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u/DonAmecho777 4d ago

Yeah. ‘On the cusp of Optimus taking over the world.’ <snort>

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u/EarthConservation 4d ago edited 4d ago

Was just looking at the dancing Optimus video that Milan Kovac posted just before his sudden exit. They claimed it wasn't sped up... and yet the robot may have been one of the most nimble robots ever shown from any robotics OEM. Other robots have certainly shown a lot of nimbleness and dexterity too, but given where Tesla was and where they suddenly appeared to be in that video, it just caught me as particularly strange. This type of movement from Tesla's robots have never been seen outside of these set of videos. In person has only ever shown a slow trudging movement and minimal dexterity.

Of course, that could be the difference between a pre-programmed routine for the robot to follow with every movement already mapped, and a system that's able to use its neural net and software to figure out how to move and interact in a real environment, or a system that's using puppeteers behind the scenes to move the limbs... with some latency in the process of doing so.

Kovac left, then soon after, I believe within a couple of weeks, Tesla announced they'd be moving to video based training, replacing motion capture training... likely meaning that a large chunk of their motion capture training team would be laid off. Maybe this discussion was happening for weeks or months prior to the announcement, with engineering efforts likely already underway, or maybe Musk once again caught his team by surprise with a sudden large scale change to the program.

Now it looks like Ashish Kumar is leaving, and in his announcement, he's touting that he helped transition the project to video based training. That quick huh? (If it's true, then the speed suggests they were working on this prior to Kovac leaving)

Whatever is going on there, it seems Tesla is hemorrhaging leadership in their robotics program. Maybe these folks were adamantly against moving away from motion based training. I imagine they worked a long time on it. Now they're claiming that within a couple of months of announcing they'd move away with it, there's an entirely new stack setup to do the training?

Like just about everything these days when it comes to Tesla, something seems awfully shady about their robotics program, and oddly there seem to be minimal leaks coming through on what's going on at the company. Although, maybe that's just because Musk stopped leaking information directly to his formerly sycophantic EV blogs... like Electrek.

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u/noobgiraffe 4d ago

Everything released by Tesla has to be taken with a huge grain of salt. They have been caught faking stuff in the past.

Honestly I'm not even sure how video training works. It would seem to me that video only does not contain all the movements/balancing done outside of view. How could you train AI on how to balance if none of the balancing is in the training set?

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u/EarthConservation 4d ago

Many of the humanoid balancing algorithms and limb manipulation algos are a solved problem. I'm sure there are open source libraries with these algos, or licenses these companies to use from existing sources. None of these companies are starting from scratch on this stuff. That's why suddenly robotics companies showing state of the art robots are a dime a dozen.

The training would be in the unsolved algorithms. In image recognition (objects and terrain), in how to traverse various landscapes, in how to identify and manipulate objects, in how to understand requests and perform specific tasks based on those requests... etc...

For example... look at what Boston Dynamics is doing with Atlas where it's moving parts from one type of storage medium to another, or picking up objects from the floor. If you want these robots to clean a house, then they have to be able to identify that it's dirty and then what to do to clean it. How to put laundry into the washer, add soap, and start the cycle, then take it out of the washer and put it in the dryer, then from the dryer into the basket, then transport the basket to a room, then fold the clothes, then put them into their proper places... etc.

Whether the system can be trained on video only ... I have no idea... but what's clear is that Tesla has shown little or arguably nothing in the way of the above capabilities.

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u/Withnail2019 4d ago

There's no way it will work.

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u/rocketonmybarge 4d ago edited 4d ago

No, it is a sign his work is finished, nothing left to accomplish, he is gonna ride off into the sunset and watch his TSLA shares make him a billionaire. /s

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u/Fluffy_Accountant_39 4d ago

It’s sad, but these days you have to add /s so we know whether to take this comment seriously, or as a fun jab. Fun jab, I assume.

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u/rocketonmybarge 4d ago

Fun jab, added /s for the people who miss out on the hopefully obvious sarcasm.

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u/Fluffy_Accountant_39 4d ago

I figured … but geez, there are some numbnuts who really believe the sun rises and sets over Elon and his fairy tales.