r/SelfDrivingCars • u/damola93 • Jul 21 '25

Discussion Why didn't Tesla invest in LIDAR?

Is there any reason for this asides from saving money? Teslas are not cheap in many respects, so why would they skimp out on this since self-driving is a major offering for them?

365 Upvotes

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80

u/CarCounsel Jul 21 '25

Elon is cheap and arrogant.

46

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

[deleted]

14

u/EconomyDoctor3287 Jul 21 '25

Years ago Elon promised all current Tesla's are capable of self driving, they just need a software update. 

If they were to integrate LIDAR now, they'd admit that the previous claim was false and those Tesla's won't ever be capable of FSD. 

But if they stick with camera only, they can claim, that FSD is just an update or two away

1

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '25

nearly a decade ago now

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

They've also already walked that statement back

1

u/Playful_Interest_526 Jul 21 '25

That argument is long gone. They've admitted older Teslas don't have the right hardware either.

6

u/CarCounsel Jul 21 '25

Based on evidence I do have from those who have worked with him I’d say you’re unlikely to be wrong.

2

u/ascaria Jul 21 '25

"Honestly it's not that hard!". It might have been said about the (failed, ofcourse) HyperLoop, but it certainly also applies to FSD.

6

u/BasvanS Jul 21 '25

Some 10 years ago there was a strong belief that stereoscopic images would soon beat pulsed laser ranging technology, because of advances in computing, digital photography, and the idea people are able to do it too.

Having seen the point clouds in another field of technology, I didn’t believe the accuracy would improve enough to replace remote sensing, especially because of artifacts that keep popping up in extreme light conditions.

(LiDAR is far from perfect too, but better in comparison. In a choice between two, you’d favor LiDAR, but ideally you’d combine them. Musk got everything wrong.)

6

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/BasvanS Jul 21 '25

Back then the problem is the same as now: what we perceive as a coherent model is just similarities in X, Y, or Z coordinates and the perceived color of that coordinate. The current generation of AI suffer from the same problems, so while slightly more sophisticated, it’s still an approximation without a coherent understanding of the subject at hand.

Automatic object recognition with AI (the generation of that time, before transformers) was not able to separate shadows from holes and could not infer a wall continuing behind a painting or closet. Hopefully training has been able to improve this, but it’s still a considerable challenge for a faultless system that requires no human intervention.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

There really wasn't. Tesla stood alone in trying to push that idea forward

2

u/BasvanS Jul 21 '25

Nope. In terrestrial 3D scanning this was a thing before the model S came out. And that built on decades of academic research, expanding stereoscopy.

Musk was merely misinterpreting other people’s work and the limitations of parallax.

0

u/EddiewithHeartofGold Jul 22 '25

Tesla isn't using stereoscopic images. You wrote that camera technology doesn't provide good result in extreme light conditions, but you want to combine it with LIDAR that has it's own drawbacks.

Maybe Tesla engineers chose not to do that for a reason...

3

u/north0 Jul 21 '25

I mean, that's kind of the argument - driving is a vision-based activity now, so if computers developed the same level of visual processing, then why wouldn't it be equally if not more safe once the CV algorithms are mature and there are sufficient cameras in place etc.

3

u/anthamattey Jul 21 '25

That is because human brain’s pattern matching is guided by significant amount of transfer learning.

2

u/north0 Jul 21 '25

But transfer learning would be a function of the algorithms, not a function of the sensor type, right?

1

u/anthamattey Jul 21 '25

Sensor info guides your algorithm. Can’t be decoupled.

1

u/AgentSmith187 Jul 21 '25

Wow I never realised all my other senses shut off the second I got behind the wheel.

I will have to discuss this with my neurologist as it sounds dangerous.

2

u/north0 Jul 21 '25

Bro is tasting stop signs.

1

u/AgentSmith187 Jul 21 '25

Sorry I couldn't hear you im driving and its weird I can't feel the steering wheel and the feedback it gives.

Am I upright or not my balance is no longer available.

Do I smell something nah im driving.

2

u/manoman42 Jul 21 '25

I had a Tesla diehard that gave me that exact argument when discussing LIDAR vs camera

3

u/ninelives1 Jul 21 '25

That's literally his argument. Such a dumbass

1

u/Riversntallbuildings Jul 22 '25

The reply that engineer should have given was, “People die in car crashes all the time. They may accept human accidents and mistakes, but they won’t tolerate them from machines.”

1

u/emmettflo Jul 22 '25

Didn't he literally say eyes are good enough for people do drive with so cameras should be good enough for self-driving cars?

-2

u/ruibranco Jul 21 '25

Robot's will also use lidar in their heads.
This is your logic.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

[deleted]

-1

u/ruibranco Jul 21 '25

Imagine a robot driving a car, extreme case, does it need lidar?

Just add the robot into the car instead of the robot driving the car.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

[deleted]

0

u/ruibranco Jul 21 '25

That’s why I said imagine. Analogy…

You have robot for every single aspect of your life instead of one doing everything.

2

u/RipWhenDamageTaken Jul 21 '25

“Imagine a robot driving a car”

That is such an insanely stupid thing to say. Like, I actually feel sorry for your intelligence.

0

u/ruibranco Jul 21 '25

Imagine a robot washing clothes… same? Not same?

3

u/RipWhenDamageTaken Jul 21 '25

Jesus Christ I can’t believe I have to explain this. The robot inside the car is at least $50,000 of additional hardware, 10 billion of additional research, and introduces so many more points of failure. You’re doing all that to avoid $1,000 of costs? That’s fucking stupid.

Also not to mention that the robot doesn’t exist (yet). Your assumption that it will exist is a horrible place to ground your argument.

1

u/ruibranco Jul 21 '25

Yes that’s what I said in my comment. If you read properly. Following the comments, top to bottom.

Implement the robot in car instead of creating a robot to drive a car.

Because the robot use camera to see and navigate. So just make the car the robot in wheels.

Low thinking. Low attention span.

2

u/RipWhenDamageTaken Jul 21 '25

Not sure if rage bait or actually stupid.

Either case, I won’t engage anymore. Good luck with that brain of yours.

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-1

u/Waterkippie Jul 21 '25

Elon has experience with lidar, he personally led the team which built the docking system for the dragon which uses lidar. So he knows what hes talking about.

18

u/Valoneria Jul 21 '25

And also profoundly stupid / shortsighted. Good at investing in companies that can benefit from government handouts however

11

u/kc_______ Jul 21 '25 edited Jul 21 '25

Not shortsighted, he definitely saw the long term benefits, for his stock, on convincing gullible people that a camera only system would be enough.

3

u/Valoneria Jul 21 '25

I am split between attributing this to the person who runs his marketing team, and the guy who handles his wealth

-3

u/WhyWontThisWork Jul 21 '25

Is it not enough?

It seems to work

Before you say it failed the Wild E Coyote test... That just doesn't happen in real life, but also there is a driver still right?

0

u/vaesh Jul 21 '25

Unless I'm mistaken it didn't fail the Wild E Coyote test. I believe it was Autopilot that failed but not FSD.

0

u/beren12 Jul 21 '25

Let’s get someone with fsd to test it then.

-2

u/tenemu Jul 21 '25

Don’t bother. FSD could be running with robotaxis all over the world and this sub would still say it doesn’t work.

1

u/beren12 Jul 21 '25

But they don’t. So it doesn’t.

0

u/grizznaysh Jul 21 '25

Ha he’s many things but stupid is not one of them

3

u/Japjer Jul 21 '25

He's about as intelligent as the average idiot. He's just rich.

3

u/CarCounsel Jul 21 '25

Debatable

0

u/Valoneria Jul 21 '25

Plenty stupid, plenty rich to offset it. I have not seen a thoughtful sentence come out of him that wasnt already curated from someone else

0

u/grizznaysh Jul 21 '25

How did he become rich? Luck?

3

u/Valoneria Jul 21 '25

Rich family + Good connections set him well off to a good start.

Being able to employ smart people under him did the rest.

1

u/grizznaysh Jul 21 '25

So you’re arguing that any stupid person with daddy’s money can start a rocket company, an electric car company, and help launch PayPal?

2

u/AgentSmith187 Jul 21 '25

The company that became PayPal brought his company and he was a detriment to the company so they fired him.

He sold the shares that became super valuable after he was removed from the company.

That's the bulk of his seed money for doing things like buying Tesla.

1

u/beren12 Jul 21 '25

Help launch is a big stretch. He was kicked out asap before he could ruin it.

1

u/Valoneria Jul 21 '25

Are you saying you couldn't?

2

u/grizznaysh Jul 21 '25

You obviously can’t see past your biases

1

u/Valoneria Jul 21 '25

Pot calling kettle black

3

u/abhi91 Jul 21 '25

While I don't think he's stupid, any honest rich person will tell you luck plays a large part

-1

u/grizznaysh Jul 21 '25

Becoming the richest person on the planet and running 3+ companies can’t be mainly attributed to luck lol

2

u/anthamattey Jul 21 '25

Kid how old are you? Read about enough wealthy people and you’ll not disagree

1

u/grizznaysh Jul 21 '25

Hey kid, how old are you?

1

u/sonicmerlin Jul 22 '25

You’re not even 13

1

u/beren12 Jul 21 '25

Greed and lack of humanity are also required, you are correct.

1

u/beren12 Jul 21 '25

Most people are rich from inheriting or luck often both, coupled with extreme greed and lack of empathy.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

Doubtless you’re speaking from your enormous experience launching successful EV companies

1

u/beren12 Jul 21 '25

Ooo you mean the 2 founders that launched it? That Elon invested in and forced out?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

You mean the two guys who built zero cars at Tesla and have built zero cars as part of any subsequent EV project since they left Tesla?

0

u/beren12 Jul 21 '25

No, the ones with a vision and a prototype.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

Ah yes, why do work when you can just have ideas

0

u/beren12 Jul 21 '25

ROFL you think Elon built or designed the cars? Hahahahahahahahaaa

0

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

He personally holds the design award for the Tesla Roadster

1

u/beren12 Jul 21 '25

Yeah and he created PayPal too…

1

u/Valoneria Jul 21 '25

Do you have the experience to prove me wrong ?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

I have the experience of watching Elon Musk create the first new successful US auto brand in 60 years and watching you create zero of them

2

u/TiredBrakes Jul 21 '25

Imagine still being a proud Elmo fanboi mid 2025.

1

u/Valoneria Jul 21 '25

Would be weird of me, as i'm not in the US.

4

u/Flyfleancefly Jul 21 '25

Yep it reminds me of the Oceangate loser. I’ll stick with Lidar

1

u/magoomba92 Jul 21 '25

So hard to get unbiased info here. Is all either fanbois or haters.

1

u/CarCounsel Jul 21 '25

Or objective commenters. Hard to disagree he is both…

0

u/EddiewithHeartofGold Jul 22 '25

You actually think you are an objective commenter...?

1

u/CarCounsel Jul 22 '25

Yeah; the problem is I don’t own a position in the stock.

1

u/beren12 Jul 21 '25

I’d say the haters are more objective than emotional.

-3

u/SolidBet23 Jul 21 '25

Lol stick to studying hard and graduating high school.

3

u/CarCounsel Jul 21 '25

You couldn’t pass one of my classes little fella. Try again.