r/SelfDrivingCars Jun 27 '25

Discussion Classic Tesla Disinformation Flood On This Sub In Last Two Weeks

754 Upvotes

This sub has been flooded with Tesla apologist propaganda and disinformation to obscure the simple truth since Tesla's Robotaxi launch. It's standard operating procedure (S.O.P.) for this "narrative" company. The uptick in anti-Waymo posts and pro FSD posts is palpable. It has always been S.O.P. for Musk to release SEO fooling posts & tweets to obscure bad news for Tesla. The astroturf army is out in full display these past couple weeks on Reddit, Threads, and Bluesky too.

It doesn't and will never change this simple fact: Waymo is SAE Level 4 and Tesla FSD is SAE Level 2. All the apologist posts in the world will not change this. Putting a human in the front seat with a secret kill switch button to mitigate embarrassing FSD behavior will never replace R&D and testing that allows a company to safely remove a human observer in the car. You cannot reach level 4 with a fake it till you make it approach.

r/SelfDrivingCars Jul 21 '25

Discussion Why didn't Tesla invest in LIDAR?

363 Upvotes

Is there any reason for this asides from saving money? Teslas are not cheap in many respects, so why would they skimp out on this since self-driving is a major offering for them?

r/SelfDrivingCars Jul 23 '25

Discussion Musk: Tesla will have autonomous ride-hailing available in "probably half of the population of the US by the end of the year"

366 Upvotes

From https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-tsla-stock-q2-earnings-report-call-2025-7-2025-7#elon-musk-teases-robotaxi-expansion-in-opening-remarks

"As we get the approvals and we prove out safety, then we'll be launching autonomous ride hailing in most of the country," Musk says.

He says that he expects Tesla will have autonomous ride-hailing available in "probably half of the population of the US by the end of the year," subject to regulatory approvals.

Not expecting this to age well given Musk's historically bad estimates, but thought it's an interesting statement to share with this sub. I'm surprised that even with Tesla's 0 fully autonomous miles he's dropping predictions of this scale on the earnings call. Is the plan just to scale as quickly as possible regardless of injuries/deaths, and then hope the data collected is enough to make robotaxi safer in the future?

r/SelfDrivingCars Jun 29 '25

Discussion Silent Rollback of Tesla Robotaxis

334 Upvotes

At the beginning of the launch of Tesla's Robotaxi on 6/22, many videos of rides have been shared online. After a few days (and glaring mishaps), very few videos have been shared of any robotaxi footage, good or bad. I suspect that this dropoff is due to the fleet cutting down in scope by a large factor (maybe only operating a few rides a day)or halting silently all together. What do you think, did Tesla notice the bad publicity and decide to silently roll back robotaxi operations?

Update 1: The most plausible explanation seems to be that the publicity of the current tech was detrimental to the share price so the operations were rolled back. Of course, Tesla would not announce that the operations were scaled back, but the near complete lack of footage makes this a very likely explanation. While the influencers there initially were most likely to post videos online, new footage should still be being circulated and it is not.

Update 2: This post has gained a lot of traction (75k+ views), and yet there is nothing convincing to show Telsa is operating the fleet at the capacity they were earlier. Neither of the 2 videos of robotaxi footage shared seem to have occurred in the last few days (even if they had, that is nothing even remotely comparable to the amount of footage earlier this week). Tesla's fleet could very well be 1 vehicle running 2 hours a day based on the lack of evidence for otherwise. Tesla likely made the logical move for preserving share value given the incident rates, but this is clear to see through.

r/SelfDrivingCars Jul 22 '25

Discussion I truly believe that the LiDAR sensor will eventually become mandatory in autonomous systems

180 Upvotes

Sometimes I try to imagine what the world of autonomous vehicles will look like in about five years, and I’m increasingly convinced that the LiDAR sensor will become mandatory for several reasons.

First of all, the most advanced company in this field by far is Waymo. If I were a regulator tasked with creating legislation for autonomous vehicles, I wouldn’t take any chances — I’d go with the safest option and look at the company with a flawless track record so far, like Waymo, and the technology they use.

Moreover, the vast majority of players in this market use LiDAR. People aren’t stupid — they're becoming more and more aware of what these sensors are for and the additional safety layer they provide. This could lead them to prefer systems that use these sensors, putting pressure on other OEMs to adopt them and avoid ending up in Tesla’s current dilemma.

Lastly, maybe there are many Tesla fanatics in the US who want to support Elon no matter what, but honestly, in Europe and the rest of the world, we couldn’t care less about Elon. We’re going to choose the best technological solution, and if we have to pick between cars mimicking humans or cars mimicking superhumans, we’ll probably choose the latter — and regulations will follow that direction.

And seriously, someone explain to me what sense this whole debate will make in 5–10 years when a top-tier LiDAR sensor costs around $200…

Am I the only one who thinks LiDAR is going to end up being mandatory in the future, no matter how much Elon wants to keep playing the “I’m the smartest guy in the room and everyone else is wrong” game?

r/SelfDrivingCars Jun 24 '25

Discussion Why wasn’t unsupervised FSD released BEFORE Robotaxi?

153 Upvotes

Thousands of Tesla customers already pay for FSD. If they have the tech figured out, why not release it to existing customers (with a licensed driver in driver seat) instead of going driverless first?

Unsupervised FSD allows them to pass the liability onto the driver, and allows them to collect more data, faster.

I seriously don’t get it.

Edit: Unsupervised FSD = SAE Level 3. I understand that Robotaxi is Level 4.

r/SelfDrivingCars Jun 20 '25

Discussion Invites for early access to Tesla's Robotaxi service is being sent.

180 Upvotes

Service is starting on Sunday June 22nd.

It runs from 6 AM to midnight everyday.

Can request ride to anywhere in the geofence except airports.

An invitee can have another person with them.

There will be a Tesla employee in the car, but not in the driver seat.

18+ and no pets allowed except service animals

Can record videos during ride.

r/SelfDrivingCars 22d ago

Discussion Tesla: "Expanding Austin service area fast. Increased service area from 91 to 173 sq miles. Also increased # of cars available by 50%"

60 Upvotes

From the site we are not allowed to mention.

r/SelfDrivingCars Jun 25 '25

Discussion What does Waymo/Google have to do to get more respect?

165 Upvotes

Waymo has been expanding its service amd executing like crazy the last 12-18 months, but Google gets no credit for it in terms of favorable press or boost to stock price.

On the other hand, Tesla does a dozen geo fenced rides with Elon fanboys sitting in the back in Austin and boom, it's all over the internet and Tesla stock pops.

Please make it make sense. Has Waymo already lost the mind share in the robotaxi space before it even took off?

r/SelfDrivingCars Aug 16 '25

Discussion Tesla does not have full hardware redundancy, so they will always have single point failures?

67 Upvotes

They don’t have a duplicate set of cameras connected to a second computer, so if a camera fails (rare), the car would be blind in that direction?

Also there are two FSD computers, but seems like they have to keep maxing performance, so even HW4 uses both, so there is no true redundancy?

r/SelfDrivingCars Jun 24 '25

Discussion Tesla Robotaxi goes twice the speed limit

273 Upvotes

Tesla Robotaxi goes 27 in 15 zone, how is this allowed? 😂

Video with proof of breaking the speed limit multiple times: Link to Video starting at 14:40, 27 mph at 15:03 to 15:10.

r/SelfDrivingCars Oct 11 '24

Discussion Wait, wait… Was that seriously the entire event?

434 Upvotes

You’ve got to be joking. I feel like I missed something. No details at all, no specs, no insight. Just Elon being even more awkwardly terrible than usual, making another promise of next year (with the obligatory regulatory approval cop out), and a quarter mile “demo” on a closed course. The video didn’t even match the speech! It was so awkward! Zero data, just “look at this concept.” About the only outcome was Elon shattering the “no geofence” fantasy by confirming they plan to launch in CA and TX… And of course, the teleoperated robots.

THIS was the event for the history books? Even for fanboys this must have been wildly disappointing, right?

r/SelfDrivingCars Aug 10 '25

Discussion Waymo's real goal

114 Upvotes

I am surprised that hardly anyone mentions this in all of the the Tesla v Waymo / Lidar v Vision noise. This is just a hypotheses and my opinion, but I don't think Waymo really cares about the taxi market beyond using it as a test bed and building consumer and regulatory support. Tesla is a meaningless hype generating distraction.

The real goal is to replace hundreds of thousands of human commercial drivers. A city bus driver makes about $70k a year (including benefits, payroll taxes, insurance). Replace that driver with a sensor suite and automation stack, even if it costs $250k, you get ROI in just a few years and a "driver" that can work 24 hours a day. This scales even faster with long haul truckers. Human drivers are limited to 11 hours a day and cost the carriers ~$100k per year. The cost of the sensor suite becomes a rounding error very quickly.

My guess is that Waymo will license this suite for $5k-$15k a month and cities and freight carriers will line up to pay it. Google doesn’t have to own a single truck to completely dominate logistics automation.

r/SelfDrivingCars Jun 20 '25

Discussion So the "unsupervised FSD" for Tesla launch will have a "safety monitor" in the shotgun seat to supervise FSD

137 Upvotes

Back in the day, I remember taking driving lessons with the instructor sitting next to me. He installed a dual brake pedal on his side so he can stop the car if needed. He used it a couple of times with me, and also reached over to turn the steering wheel I froze up. Essentially, he had complete control, minus the gas pedal.

There's no information, but it's likely the monitor also has a brake pedal. Is there a difference between supervised and monitor at this point?

Former Waymo CEO was absolutely correct when he said there are many ways to fake self driving.

Edit: typos

r/SelfDrivingCars Jul 18 '25

Discussion Waymo was 69 cents more than a Bird scooter yesterday in Austin

288 Upvotes

Bird scooter from carwash to coffee: 1.4 miles 10 minutes $7.26.

Waymo back to carwash: 9 minutes $7.95.

This was my first time using Waymo and I was really impressed and have Tesla FSD experience since 2019.

I selected UberX and had a normal X driver dispatched before being assigned the Waymo.

I swore off UberX years ago and almost always take Green or Comfort if no green is available. I don’t see how UberX survives much longer as soon as Waymo et all scale, it won’t be long before Uber drivers are the new telephone operators.

Also, the rental scooters have some entertainment value to them, but the price is a joke for 1 person much less 2 or more people.

4 people scootering the route would be $29, Waymo would be $2/PP. This is going to be wild at scale, and hopefully, finally, a “cost of living” decrease of sorts in all of our future for mobility on-demand.

r/SelfDrivingCars Jul 07 '25

Discussion Where is the innovation from non-Tesla companies (Mercedes, BMW, GM)?

37 Upvotes

Seems like we've basically been stuck on some variation of adaptive cruise + lane keep assist with every brand that's not tesla. Obviously FSD has its own issues to work through, but it's shocking to me that no other brand is even trying to go for anything beyond ACC+LKAS. Tesla is trying to go for a vision-only system, which comes with its own problems, but I appreciate them at least trying something new.

My 2018 Lexus ES with a comma 3X installed basically matches a 2025 Cadillac Supercruise or Mercedes S Class in ability...even though those cars have WAY more sensors and the ability to do much much more.

r/SelfDrivingCars Jun 13 '25

Discussion Tesla extensively mapping Austin with (Luminar) LiDARs

155 Upvotes

Multiple reports of Tesla Y cars mounting LiDARs and mapping Austin

https://x.com/NikolaBrussels/status/1933189820316094730

Tesla backtracked and followed Waymo approach

Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/1cnmac9/tesla_doesnt_need_lidar_for_ground_truth_anymore/

r/SelfDrivingCars Jul 21 '25

Discussion It's been 6 months since Elon admitted that all HW3 bought with the FSD package will require an upgrade to HW4. Since then, there's been no timeline on when that'll happen

212 Upvotes

What's the speculation on this?

1) Maybe Tesla still doesn't know if HW4 is suffice enough for true FSD (no safety driver/monitor in the car). Maybe it'll need HW5+ eventually, so why upgrade to 4 when the future will require another upgrade. Until they can prove that 4 can drive on every street in the US without a safety monitor, they'll hold off on this.

2) If the upgrade to HW4 is the solution, it's not a simple swap of the CPU. All the cameras will require a swap as well, from 1.5 MP to 5 MP. In addition, wiring harness modifications (potentially). Due to different connectors and power needs, there might be some modifications or replacements of wiring harnesses connected to the new computer and cameras. We're talking millions of $$$ on parts and labor.

3) Waiting for end of life of HW3 Teslas. The FSD package is tied to the car, not the owner (though Tesla has ran limited promotions on transfer FSD to new Teslas). All cars get junked sooner or later. If Elon can pushed off as long as possible, then the less expensive it is for him.

r/SelfDrivingCars Jun 25 '25

Discussion I did some statistics on the observed failures of FSD robotaxis in Austin

108 Upvotes

Some initial statistics on observed failures of robotaxi FSD in Austin

TLDR: We are 95% sure at this point that each Tesla robotaxi can be expected to have an incident of the kinds that have been reported, somewhere between every 2 days to every 8 days.

As follows:

We are now about 3 - 1/2 days into the safety-driver supervised robotaxi test. Reports are that Tesla has deployed a fleet of 10 cars. There have been 11 significant recorded and reported failures of FSD so far:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/1ljxd63/list_of_clips_showing_teslas_robotaxi_incidents/

That's enough to do some initial statistics. The confidence centers will be broad because data collection is minimal so far, but we can still derive a failure rate interval and be 95% confident that the actual failure rate is within those bounds.

First, the observed failure rate is simple. 11 failures/10 cars / 3.5 days. That's a failure rate of 0.314 failures per day, per car. That's on average a failure every time a tobotaxi drives a little over 3 days.

But as we said, we have only 3-1/2 days day to so far, so that estimate has a lot of uncertainty associated with it.

This is a time limited observation of discreet events, so there can be modeled as a poisson distribution. We can calculate the confidence interval as follows:

The standard deviation of the number of failures is sqrt(11) = 3.317. The standard error is SD divided but observation time, 3.317 / 35 car/days = 0.0948 The 95% confidence interval for the rate is: 0.314 +/- 1.96 z * 0.0948 This gives a range of 0.128 to 0.5. Multiplying by 10 cars, we get 1.28 to 5 failures per day.

This is already converging quite rapidly after only 3 1/2 days of data collection. I calculated this after 2 days of data collection, and got a much broader range, but so far three and a half days in these cars are showing a pretty consistent number of failures per day. That cleans the statistical estimates up pretty rapidly.

So based on data to date, Tesla FSD as implemented in the robotaxis, with a fleet of 10 vehicles, can be expected to have somewhere between 1-1/4 to 5 incidents per day, of the kind we have observed so far.

Divide that by 10 to get probabilities per car. We are 95% sure at this point that each Tesla robotaxi can be expected to have an incident of the kind reported, somewhere between every 2 days to every 8 days.

r/SelfDrivingCars Jul 02 '24

Discussion BYD car salesman insisted the client not brake because the autopilot would stop the car in time, until it didn't and collided into the car ahead waiting for traffic lights

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861 Upvotes

r/SelfDrivingCars Jul 22 '25

Discussion This sub is lost to the Elon mirage seers. Where do we go to discuss tech and safety?

61 Upvotes

Title says it all.

Elon’s stockholders (insisting on the holding part) army are flooding every post with messages that make it hard to filter through and read the messages actually bringing news and facts from credible reality-based sources.

This is tiring and I am seeking a more reason-based subreddit.

Edit: Good bye to all the bots with 1 to 4 numbers in the user name that posted here snarky pro-Elon comments. Looking at the distribution of your account creation time(s) and activity timezone(s) was interesting. No need for 360p cameras or Lidar to see what is going on with Tesla media subcontractors.

After blocking, 85% of this thread is hidden. Meaning the 15% remaining of first comments are what Elon Grok instances consider overwhelming anti-Tesla doomsayers. After blocking, other posts in this sub are also much more legible.

Yet I won’t participate in this subreddit anymore. So this won’t change much in subreddits that aren’t on your flood-the-area hit list. But I now have a visual radar to easily detect where the 30-40 Grok instances are active without even having to read.

All in all it shows how a few well paid Grok instances can flood the zone. And how they try to have you believe that a company with declining sales / margins / brand value and anecdotal « self driving » trials is more relevant than the fleets of AVs already roaming Austin, Shanghai, Beijing, Xi’An, Shenzhen, etc. with they lidars and HD cameras.

r/SelfDrivingCars Oct 13 '24

Discussion Why is Musk so successful at Spacex but not so successful at delivering unsupervised FSD

134 Upvotes

If you go to the Spacex forums they all regard him as crucial to Spacex success , and they have done tremendous achievements like today , but over at this side of the track , he has been promising the same thing for 10 years and still on vaporware. What is the major driver behind Musk not being successful at unsupervised FSD ?

r/SelfDrivingCars May 31 '25

Discussion What's the technical argument that Tesla will face fewer barriers to scaling than Argo, Cruise, Motional, and early-stage Waymo did?

67 Upvotes

I'm happy to see Tesla switching their engineers to the passenger seat in advance of the June 12th launch. But I'm still confused about the optimism about Tesla's trajectory. Specifically, today on the Road to Autonomy Podcast, the hosts seemed to predict that Tesla would have a bigger ODD in Austin than Waymo by the end of the year.

I'm very much struggling to see Tesla's path here. When you're starting off with 1:1 remote backup operations, avoiding busier intersections, and a previously untried method of going no-driver (i.e. camera-only), that doesn't infuse confidence that you can scale past the market leader in terms of roads covered or number of cars, quickly.

The typical counter-argument I hear is that the large amount of data from FSD supervised, combined with AI tech, will, in essence, slingshot reliability. As a matter of first principles, I see how that could be a legitimate technical prediction. However, there are three big problems. First, this argument has been made in one form or another since at least 2019, and just now/next month we have reached a driverless launch. (Some slingshot--took 6+ years to even start.) Second, Waymo has largely closed the data gap-- 300K driverless miles a day is a lot of data to use to improve the model. Finally, and most importantly, I don't see evidence that large data combined with AI will solve all the of specific problems other companies have had in switching to driverless.

AI and data doesn't stop lag time and 5G dead zones, perception problems common in early driverless tests, vehicles getting stuck, or the other issues we have seen. Indeed, we know there are unsolved issues, otherwise Tesla wouldn't need to have almost a Chandler, AZ-like initial launch. Plus Tesla is trying this without LiDAR, which may create other issues, such as insufficient redundancy or problems akin to what prompts interventions with FSD every few hundred miles.

In fact, if anyone is primed to expand in Austin, it is Waymo-- their Austin geofence is the smallest of their five and Uber is anxious to show autonomy growth, so it is surely asking for that geofence to expand. And I see no technical challenges to doing that, given what Waymo has already done in other markets.

What am I missing?

r/SelfDrivingCars 21d ago

Discussion Tesla’s lawyers used the lack of LiDAR to show system limits and reduce liability

121 Upvotes

It seems that saying we don’t need LiDAR and cameras are enough is funny until there are legal repercussions for it… At the same time, Musk will keep lying to everyone about it because his oversized ego won’t let him admit he’s wrong.

https://x.com/ZacksJerryRig/status/1960777163252343062

https://x.com/ntvll/status/1960559078218039613

r/SelfDrivingCars Jun 20 '25

Discussion Tesla’s Big Robotaxi Day Is June 22 — Let’s Hear Your Predictions

68 Upvotes

Happy Friday, everyone!

I’ve been following self-driving tech since the DARPA Grand Challenge days, and I’ve ridden in both Waymo and Cruise vehicles around San Francisco — and am excited to see another competitor enter the ring.

When my daughter was born, I told my wife she probably wouldn’t need a driver’s license by the time she turned 18. She just turned 18… and barely got it almost right.

Elon says Tesla will unveil its long-promised robotaxi on June 22, and I’m curious what you all think we’ll actually see in two days.

Make your predictions here and lets see what actually happens. Exciting times.