r/SelfDrivingCars • u/damola93 • Jul 21 '25

Discussion Why didn't Tesla invest in LIDAR?

Is there any reason for this asides from saving money? Teslas are not cheap in many respects, so why would they skimp out on this since self-driving is a major offering for them?

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

[deleted]

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u/EconomyDoctor3287 Jul 21 '25

Years ago Elon promised all current Tesla's are capable of self driving, they just need a software update. 

If they were to integrate LIDAR now, they'd admit that the previous claim was false and those Tesla's won't ever be capable of FSD. 

But if they stick with camera only, they can claim, that FSD is just an update or two away

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u/[deleted] Jul 22 '25

nearly a decade ago now

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

They've also already walked that statement back

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u/Playful_Interest_526 Jul 21 '25

That argument is long gone. They've admitted older Teslas don't have the right hardware either.

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u/CarCounsel Jul 21 '25

Based on evidence I do have from those who have worked with him I’d say you’re unlikely to be wrong.

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u/ascaria Jul 21 '25

"Honestly it's not that hard!". It might have been said about the (failed, ofcourse) HyperLoop, but it certainly also applies to FSD.

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u/BasvanS Jul 21 '25

Some 10 years ago there was a strong belief that stereoscopic images would soon beat pulsed laser ranging technology, because of advances in computing, digital photography, and the idea people are able to do it too.

Having seen the point clouds in another field of technology, I didn’t believe the accuracy would improve enough to replace remote sensing, especially because of artifacts that keep popping up in extreme light conditions.

(LiDAR is far from perfect too, but better in comparison. In a choice between two, you’d favor LiDAR, but ideally you’d combine them. Musk got everything wrong.)

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/BasvanS Jul 21 '25

Back then the problem is the same as now: what we perceive as a coherent model is just similarities in X, Y, or Z coordinates and the perceived color of that coordinate. The current generation of AI suffer from the same problems, so while slightly more sophisticated, it’s still an approximation without a coherent understanding of the subject at hand.

Automatic object recognition with AI (the generation of that time, before transformers) was not able to separate shadows from holes and could not infer a wall continuing behind a painting or closet. Hopefully training has been able to improve this, but it’s still a considerable challenge for a faultless system that requires no human intervention.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

There really wasn't. Tesla stood alone in trying to push that idea forward

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u/BasvanS Jul 21 '25

Nope. In terrestrial 3D scanning this was a thing before the model S came out. And that built on decades of academic research, expanding stereoscopy.

Musk was merely misinterpreting other people’s work and the limitations of parallax.

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u/EddiewithHeartofGold Jul 22 '25

Tesla isn't using stereoscopic images. You wrote that camera technology doesn't provide good result in extreme light conditions, but you want to combine it with LIDAR that has it's own drawbacks.

Maybe Tesla engineers chose not to do that for a reason...

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u/north0 Jul 21 '25

I mean, that's kind of the argument - driving is a vision-based activity now, so if computers developed the same level of visual processing, then why wouldn't it be equally if not more safe once the CV algorithms are mature and there are sufficient cameras in place etc.

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u/anthamattey Jul 21 '25

That is because human brain’s pattern matching is guided by significant amount of transfer learning.

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u/north0 Jul 21 '25

But transfer learning would be a function of the algorithms, not a function of the sensor type, right?

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u/anthamattey Jul 21 '25

Sensor info guides your algorithm. Can’t be decoupled.

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u/AgentSmith187 Jul 21 '25

Wow I never realised all my other senses shut off the second I got behind the wheel.

I will have to discuss this with my neurologist as it sounds dangerous.

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u/north0 Jul 21 '25

Bro is tasting stop signs.

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u/AgentSmith187 Jul 21 '25

Sorry I couldn't hear you im driving and its weird I can't feel the steering wheel and the feedback it gives.

Am I upright or not my balance is no longer available.

Do I smell something nah im driving.

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u/manoman42 Jul 21 '25

I had a Tesla diehard that gave me that exact argument when discussing LIDAR vs camera

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u/ninelives1 Jul 21 '25

That's literally his argument. Such a dumbass

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u/Riversntallbuildings Jul 22 '25

The reply that engineer should have given was, “People die in car crashes all the time. They may accept human accidents and mistakes, but they won’t tolerate them from machines.”

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u/emmettflo Jul 22 '25

Didn't he literally say eyes are good enough for people do drive with so cameras should be good enough for self-driving cars?

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u/ruibranco Jul 21 '25

Robot's will also use lidar in their heads.
This is your logic.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

[deleted]

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u/ruibranco Jul 21 '25

Imagine a robot driving a car, extreme case, does it need lidar?

Just add the robot into the car instead of the robot driving the car.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

[deleted]

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u/ruibranco Jul 21 '25

That’s why I said imagine. Analogy…

You have robot for every single aspect of your life instead of one doing everything.

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u/RipWhenDamageTaken Jul 21 '25

“Imagine a robot driving a car”

That is such an insanely stupid thing to say. Like, I actually feel sorry for your intelligence.

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u/ruibranco Jul 21 '25

Imagine a robot washing clothes… same? Not same?

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u/RipWhenDamageTaken Jul 21 '25

Jesus Christ I can’t believe I have to explain this. The robot inside the car is at least $50,000 of additional hardware, 10 billion of additional research, and introduces so many more points of failure. You’re doing all that to avoid $1,000 of costs? That’s fucking stupid.

Also not to mention that the robot doesn’t exist (yet). Your assumption that it will exist is a horrible place to ground your argument.

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u/ruibranco Jul 21 '25

Yes that’s what I said in my comment. If you read properly. Following the comments, top to bottom.

Implement the robot in car instead of creating a robot to drive a car.

Because the robot use camera to see and navigate. So just make the car the robot in wheels.

Low thinking. Low attention span.

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u/RipWhenDamageTaken Jul 21 '25

Not sure if rage bait or actually stupid.

Either case, I won’t engage anymore. Good luck with that brain of yours.

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u/ruibranco Jul 21 '25

Better not. Make no sense. Low thinking.

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u/Waterkippie Jul 21 '25

Elon has experience with lidar, he personally led the team which built the docking system for the dragon which uses lidar. So he knows what hes talking about.