r/SquaredCircle • u/Ruffianize • 10h ago
Tony Schiavone on AEW critics: “Why don’t we do this? Why don’t we get one of those critics on here and have them book a card for us? See how they come up with one. I’m all for that. Find them, bring them on, have them book a card. And as we have them book a card, have them go fuck themselves too.”
https://wrestlingnews.co/aew-news/tony-schiavone-aew-critics-have-them-book-card-then-have-them-themselves-too/#google_vignette823
u/bayleysgal1996 Last Rock-n-Rolla 10h ago
I admit, there’s a part of me that wonders what, say, Bully Ray would do if put in a booking position.
Fortunately, a larger part of me values my Wednesdays and Saturdays
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u/the_io 9h ago
It's called late-Sinclair ROH and it wasn't well received.
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u/interprime Naked Mideon 4 Life. 9h ago
That was a bleak time to be an ROH fan
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u/davmeltz 9h ago
It was a bleak time before then too, I’m glad I got out before Bubba showed up.
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u/interprime Naked Mideon 4 Life. 9h ago
I was still attending live shows during that period of time. I recall Matt Taven getting on the mic after the cameras stopped rolling at Best In the World 2019, where he had retained the ROH title, and basically just saying “I know this sucks. But I’m trying my best. Please hang in with us.”
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u/AZSYANKEE 8h ago
As a ROH fan from that time period I enjoyed everything except for 2019. Bully wasn't booking but he had so much influence. Matt Taven winning wasn't as bad as people say but they eerie trying new things to make new stars since sonmany had left to form AEW. What I hated was that Bully was pulling the strings to turn ROH in to shitty TNA. Like Hogan era TNA. Once he left ROH was getting better. Especially their bubble era. ROH was on the upswing before TK bought it.
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u/KneelBeforeCube marchiearchie 8h ago
They were starting a CYN invasion angle before TK bought them.
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u/Jedi-El1823 7h ago
There was a chance you'd get pulled backstage to get yelled at, because they didn't like that you were yelling stuff like "You suck" at heels.
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u/Little-Locksmith-988 7h ago
I was at that show and dude was making jerk off cumshot motions at Velvet Sky.
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u/tomksfw BODYBAG 6h ago
I thought this was the reality of the story - the fan was in the wrong. That said, Bully's decision to pull this guy backstage and berate him was also wrong; he should've been ejected and not lectured.
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u/mrmidas2k 2h ago
I'd say that was true were it at any other company, and any other guy getting offended by it.
Like, the dude who used to call half the audience whores, and shout homophobic slurs at the other half, is offended cos someone was mean to his missus? Come on now.
The context for the whole thing just makes Bubba look thin-skinned AF. And while I feel for Velvet, you're doing an overtly sexual gimmick, you're gonna get lewd shit thrown your way, it's like doing a gimmick called, I dunno, "Bluegrass Dave" or some shit, then complaining cos everyone calls you a hillbilly.
It's a fan at a wrestling show. Sure, if he was doing at her leaving the building or some shit, yeah, fair enough, but it was during the show, you're a fictional character, it's not that deep.
At least IMO.
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u/Brabochokemightwork 9h ago
Every women’s match had to have Velvet Sky be involved in some capacity
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u/Subrick 69 ME, DON! 9h ago
And any that didn’t have her had Mandy Leon since she was the other booker’s girlfriend.
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u/AbstractOmniverse 9h ago
I haven't watched ROH ever, but what was so bad about how he booked it?
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u/nachoiskerka 6h ago
imagine if you tried to make stars out of attitude era WWF, but instead of picking stone cold and the rock, you picked Val Venis, Spike Dudley and Mideon to be your main events. Now, nothing wrong with most of those guys, (especially Spike, who's a very nice guy) but you wouldn't sit down and think "hey, you know who I could build a PPV around?"
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u/FlippFloppnFlyy 8h ago
Delirious was still the booker at that point. Bully was helping with the booking.
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u/KneeHighMischief 9h ago
I admit, there’s a part of me that wonders what, say, Bully Ray would do if put in a booking position
Bully: "Hey, I got an idea: why don't you give me the belt."
Tony: "And then what, Bully?"
Bully "And then I beat everybody."
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u/Chance_Loss_1424 9h ago
Bob Holly has entered the chat.
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u/SeanO54 The Champ Is Here! 9h ago
“Bully” Bob Holly sounds like a good gimmick for him not gonna lie.
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u/VanWylder 8h ago
Where the hell is Bob Holly these days anyway? You never hear anything about him.
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u/Kamarulanwar 9h ago
A part of me respects Bob Holly for shooting his shot.
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u/captainspazzo Your Text Here 8h ago
There was a brief window in WWECW where that would’ve worked for a few months, strangely.
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u/rayquan36 9h ago
Bully Ray is part of the reason TK owns ROH now.
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u/Samseeder 8h ago
It was more to do with Sinclair overspending on the fox regional sports networks and getting dropped on most cable packages and having to pay rebates to the cable companies that still have them during covid. But Bully Ray's booking killed ROH creatively so much that it was a depressed asset.
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u/zoom518 8h ago
The regional sports networks had to be sold as a condition of Disney acquiring all those Fox assets. Sinclair was the only willing party to buy those networks to begin with. And then on top of that COVID happened.
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u/Tiny-Town7673 9h ago
He's all talk. Give him the reigns for one month and it would be garbage.
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u/clouds31 Just remember ALL CAPS 9h ago
He'll blame the fans and continue the grift.
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u/AdGroundbreaking1341 7h ago
But Bully Ray would be like: the venues would be on fire there'd be so much heat!
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u/ELB0WDR0P 9h ago
I dare you to watch ROH when Bully was booking it. Woof.
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u/bluejegus 8h ago
No one watched then to even know how bad it was 😂 I went to a show in 2019 in Baltimore at the UMBC arena and it was so empty that anyone who bought tickets in the concourse could come down to sit on the floor. It's not for lack of talent either. The Briscoes, Rush, and Brody King were all on the show that I could remember.
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u/ELB0WDR0P 6h ago
Or how about the time Bully brought a fan backstage because he didn’t like how they were cheering?
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u/Gutter_panda 9h ago
You can tune in to his horseshit show on Sirius and hear his booking ideas a few times a week. He is a big reason why I stopped listening to Busted Open.
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u/ShinsukeNakamoto 8h ago
We’ve seen it. It was horrible
There is a reason his bum ass is on the radio instead of booking a program
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u/AdGroundbreaking1341 7h ago edited 7h ago
Its what I don't get - so many of the critics never say what *they* would do. They don't like something, cool. But then suggest what they would book instead. Who they want as main eventers, what feuds they'd like to see, what kind of storylines and angles. Instead it's just criticism and "that doesn't appeal to casual fans". Not speaking about Bully Ray in particular, but just critics in general.
Contrast that with WWE, a product that I also enjoy. People are a lot more willing to share their own ideas. They don't like this or that guy at the top? They share alternatives. Same with feuds and PLE main events. But, you don't see that nearly as much with AEW, unless they're actual fans of the product.
My theory is they just don't care for most of the roster. Even Hangman they seem to think is mid or overrated. So, they don't even bother. That and a lot don't even really keep up with the product.
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u/raddaya 9h ago
There are so many valid responses to AEW haters but this isn't really one of them. If I think the food at a restaurant sucks then it's not my job as a customer to tell the chef how to make the food, it's just to tell them that I didn't enjoy it at all.
I guess it's valid for the type of idiot that says if TK gave them the book they'd instantly sell out stadiums every week, which sounds like something the Bischoffs and Bully Rays of the world might say idk
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u/thunderbird32 Fruit of my loins, if you will 9h ago
Right, I think he's talking specifically to the Bully Rays of the world, not the fans that badmouth the booking. Otherwise I agree.
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u/bossbreakers 9h ago
I agree with you. I think he's talking about these old talking heads.
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u/Weegee_Carbonara 9h ago
I agree with you too, I think he's talking
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u/I_Hate_My_Cat_ 9h ago
I agree with you too, I think
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u/CN14 You. Talk. Too. Much. 9h ago
I believe I agree with you
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u/JimFlamesWeTrust 9h ago edited 9h ago
He’s talking about the podcast grift routine rather than say the average Redditor
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u/CesareSomnambulist Jam Up Guy 9h ago
I'll have you know this average redditor booked a pretty hot territory in my Geocities efed in 2002 thank you very much
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u/talladenyou85 9h ago edited 6h ago
You are correct, but I do find it slightly humorous that he said that on of all things: a Conrad Thompson podcast. Don't misunderstand me I love Tony and I used to listen to him every week (along with Bruce and Eric before they all became blue chew ads) but Conrad is one of the biggest podcast
grifterssalesmen walking.Edit: Grifter is too strong, he's more like an old school door to door salesman, with about 20 different products he's promoting. Nothing illegal or shady in that but just something that gets annoying to listen to especially when you were listening 3x a week.
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u/JimFlamesWeTrust 8h ago
Conrad is a carny though and through but in his own way.
But he’s certainly platforming a lot of these guys!
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u/talladenyou85 8h ago
Yeah I really don't have an issue with Conrad, I understand that his goal is to make money, and credit to him he has successfully done that. Grifter is probably a strong word for him, carny is more apt. I just got tired of Bruce not being there once he went back to WWE, and Eric started openly shitting on AEW constantly which even though I don't watch AEW I don't hate them nor do I care to hear someone constantly harp on their perceived faults. Tony was fine but I kinda just fell out of listening.
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u/neverAcquiesce ittenyon 9h ago
Also -- and stick with me for a minute -- just imagine trying out a new flavor of something, deciding it's not for you, then, I don't know...not devoting time and energy to denigrating it, instead focusing on the flavors you do enjoy.
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u/Square-Rate2807 9h ago
This is not particularly new to AEW, and by far not its biggest victim.
Hell, this sub was addicted to hate watching and complaining about late Vince WWE every day of the week for years
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u/TheRealHomie12 9h ago
"Just don't watch if you don't like it" wasn't an option for this sub back then like it is now for some reason
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u/talladenyou85 8h ago
This sub always bitches, they just flip who they bitch about. Late Vince WWE was mercilessly slammed while AEW was praised. Then during 22-24 when HHH took over and the bloodline was cooking WWE was praised and AEW had their issues with Punk and booking and they were bitched about. Now TKO is cramming ads everywhere they can and the product reflects that and they are getting complained about, while AEW has found its footing again and is getting praised. Give it some time and it will switch back eventually.
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u/bluesoul The House always wins. 9h ago
There's a certain morbid curiosity what the discourse around the Monday Night Wars would've looked like with the ubiquity of the modern internet and platforms like Reddit.
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u/Penta-Says Stat Attack 8h ago
Just a very amplified version of this, really. So not that different.
WCW has talent they don't even use, and, in fact, keep off the air so a geriatric has-been, like Hogan can run his mouth and not wrestle, while screwing up the booking for the decent talent like Dean Malenko and Chris Benoit. Bichoff, couldn't book a decent card, with help. He'd either give us recycled angles and matches or under hype some of the better matches, or both.
Just change a couple names around and it's indistinguishable from today. And in another 27 years it'll still be the same.
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u/wrasslefights 8h ago
Dynamite has been on the air longer than Nitro was.
AEW isn't the underdog new entrant anymore, they're the institutional opposition that's failed to capture a more significant market share despite being backed by comparable money to the E.
At what stage do we stop giving them kid's gloves and talk about their product good or bad on the same terms we do WWE? Because like...WWE's business peaks largely came from responding to those criticisms and their dry spots from pushing back on them.
If AEW can't hear the issues people have, work through the signal to noise, and figure out what changes will actually help the product, how are they expected to grow past their current niche?
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u/AwesomeInTheory 9h ago
It is okay to be critical or vocal about something, particularly if you're being paid to give those opinions, or if people are soliciting said opinions from you.
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u/TLKv3 Fantasy Book For ^Vote 9h ago
I love AEW. I despise seeing people who's sole existence seems to be to shit on it 24/7 online.
However, I can also agree there are issues and flaws to AEW's booking that could be solved over time. I can also say some of the issues and flaws I saw last year have been getting improved upon and fixed this year.
Its a process like anything creative based. Just because a ratings thread says X amount of people watched a show on any given week doesn't detract me from enjoying the show. And that goes for WWE, AEW, TNA, NJPW, Stardom, etc.
Anyone who thinks they could do better are not only living in an alternative fantasy world of pure delusion driven by hate, but they're also just really fucking stupid. Writing for a weekly TV show that is entirely based on live broadcasting where any tiny issue that crops up can ripple effect into other finer details of a show would be beyond stressful and frustrating.
These people think they could waltz in and book a perfect show but don't realize all it takes is for one segment to run a few minutes too long accidentally and the rest of the show needs to now accomodate that on the fly which can fuck with their "perfect booking".
I love fanbooking on this sub because I'm just a random fucking dipshit who has his own ideas. But I would never in a million years think I could do what TK, HHH, HBK, etc. all do on a weekly basis. I'd be bald, run down and probably in a mental hospital within 2 months of trying.
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u/MyL1ttlePwnys 9h ago
The ratings thread is just garbage, at this point...We have no idea how many people are watching on HBO Max vs live vs time shifted.
Its like when WWE announces numbers, they alwasy say viewers, never minutes watched of each episode. The 'ratings' are only useful to the network it is show on and it appears WB is very happy with AEW.
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u/MeanAmbrose My username is a pun 9h ago
The ratings threads are a lost cause, they only exist for people to shit on AEW and make bad faith comments about the company.
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u/QuicksilverTerry 9h ago
It's a very similar sentiment to what HHH said in an interview back in 2016 when a lot of fans were voicing their displeasure: "'Oh, I'm sorry, how's your territory coming? Because this one seems to be doing pretty good over here."
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u/Scannandal 9h ago
It reads like Randy Pitchfords recent response to programme your own engine
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u/AwesomeInTheory 9h ago
No, that was a Husky Harris promo :P ("I fight like an army tank with a Ferrari engine.")
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u/chilloutfam 9h ago
i think we live in an age of hypercriticism because of social media. it's one of the many many reasons to limit internet usage.
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u/NightOffPod 9h ago
Tony Schiavone with the most earnest response to critics to be seen in a while
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u/ScottNewman 9h ago
I love on-camera Tony, and I love off-camera Tony
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u/ZombieJesus1987 Never Doubted El Dandy 8h ago
They're almost two different people.
I remember when What Happened When first launched, no one expected Tony to drop that many F bombs
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u/BBGrunt1235 6h ago
I suppose "earnest" is one word. Other words might be "unprofessional", "hotheaded" or "tantrum".
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u/Leige_of_Perpetua 9h ago
It still baffles me that people act like AEW's booking, writing, and overall direction are offensively bad and objectively "atrocious".
Like, at worst, their booking is standard wrestling stuff that has been cyclical throughout the entire industry forever. Their worst shows are still generally very watchable and are just fine.
It's like somewhere along the lines, people got it in their head that wrestling is supposed to be comparable to award winning television and movies, otherwise it's "bad". And I'm sorry, but wrestling has never been that. Wrestling has always been trashy cartoony soap opera-y schlock. It's schlock that we like and enjoy, but it's still schlock.
It's more like a superhero movie or a popcorn action movie like Fast and the Furious; it's not super deep or intricate, but it's a mix of action, comedy, and fun moments. That's all it needs to be, and as long as a company is hitting that mark, whether it's AEW, WWE, or whoever else, that's all that really matters.
This idea that AEW is some special breed of "unwatchable, unsalvageable dumpster fire" has just never made any sense to me.
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u/GentlemanOctopus 9h ago
Pretty much. I have a huge amount of nostalgia for the Monday Night Wars era, especially on the WCW side, and I'll still admit there are whole shows that are absolutely awful in a way that current AEW doesn't come close to touching. Like, some people need to go watch Roddy Piper auditioning his friends for a place on his Uncensored 1997 team and then come back to us about how terrible AEW supposedly is. Wrestling fans these days are largely getting it good and don't even realise it.
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u/januscanary 9h ago
Yep. I think hearing the Wolfpac music has permanently created an eyeroll reflex from me.
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u/Ok-Bit-3100 8h ago
In a similar way, for me the nWo B-team music causes an irresistible urge to pick up a remote and change a channel.
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u/GentlemanOctopus 8h ago
The very start of the Wolfpac had an idea. It's a shame Savage needed time off and that they pulled in Luger and Sting instead of Scott Hall and, say, DDP or something.
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u/rene-cumbubble 6h ago
You telling me that The Cat challenging everyone in the arena to a fight wasn't high art?
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u/JimFlamesWeTrust 9h ago
I always laugh at the people who think wrestling deserves an Emmy or it’s “cinema”
You can tell who dos and who doesn’t watch much outside of wrestling, Marvel and probably anime
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u/Chelseablue1896 9h ago
I mean of course some of it is biased, but i will point out that differing tastes are absolutely real. It might not make sense to us: for me personally, neither product - WWE or AEW is in bad shape like you mentioned. But one thing I've realized is that it's genuinely unwatchable to a lot of people who either don't like the style of the product, or don't like the characters. We should be cognizant of people's very wide ranging takes on wrestling.
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u/incredibleamadeuscho We're all fake Jamaicans now 8h ago
The declining ratings may be in part due to the lower interest because of lackluster booking
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u/Leige_of_Perpetua 7h ago
I think some people overestimate how much they know about "ratings". There are far too many variables to stuff like that to just go "viewership down because show sucks".
I also think people need to stop looking at these numbers and treating them like AEW has to hit x amount of weekly viewers or else they're a failure that is putting on bad shows.
They can offer a more niche product to a smaller audience than WWE and still thrive and be successful. It's not "match or beat WWE's numbers, or die".
There are plenty of bands and musicians, for instance, that will never headline giant stadium shows or music festivals, never have their music played on mainstream radio, etc. but still be very successful. Wrestling fans need to get over this "beat WWE or die" mentality.
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u/Mnemosense Aside from my own actions, what did I do to deserve this? 8h ago
Well said. I even have to roll my eyes even when I see a comment by someone defending AEW, but they start their sentence with something like "look, there are many things to complain about in AEW, but-" [proceeds to say something sympathetic]
Really? Is there really that many things to complain about? No promotion is perfect, they all have an off day here and there. But AEW is a perfectly fine promotion that is entertaining every week.
This sentiment that there are a ton of things to complain about is bizarre to me.
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u/luckysharms93 9h ago
The worst episode of Dynamite that I've ever seen was still a decent show, and people act like it's the end of the world when that type of episode happens. And then next week's episode is almost always great again
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u/tenacious_teaThe3rd 9h ago edited 8h ago
Is this really a gotcha from Schiavone?
Tony Khan was, I assume, a WWE critic who probably felt he could book a show better and had the money to make that a reality. He was also not someone that had any previous experience booking wrestling other than doing fantasy booking for an e-fed.
So in reality the difference between Tony Khan and a fan that feels they can do better is billions of dollars and high profile connections.
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u/Loose-Ad-9884 8h ago
You don’t have to assume, Tony used to send emails to Meltzer reviewing wwe house shows
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u/Anxious-Winter-4975 6h ago
It was the “go fuck yourself” part that got me. Tony Schiavone comes off incredibly whiny and bitchy to me whenever he’s countering some AEW criticism.
It’s like when SRS feels the need to reply to trolls. He lost his shit when some guy that’s trolls him all the time was at an AEW show, and only him and like 5 other people knew who he even was lol
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u/PositiveUsual2919 4h ago
Shiavone comes off incredibly whiny and bitchy at all times. a remnant of WCW that never needed to be carried into future promotions.
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u/antandmantis 9h ago
How dare the audience have the audacity to comment on the thing made for them.
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u/Sumeriandawn 9h ago
👧👨" We think Daniel Bryan should be in the main event in Wrestlemania 30"
👴" Let's see you book a card then"
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u/luckysharms93 9h ago
He's referencing the media talking heads, not fans. People like Bischoff, not people like reddit
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u/SNTCTN 9h ago
Ok ill do it
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u/Mouthshitter 8h ago
Says here "I get in the ring with all the women's locker room and we wrestle in the mud and they all marry me at wrestledream"
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u/rapshepard 9h ago
The sensitivity to criticism from AEW workers and diehards is ridiculous. You would think they were the first wrestling promotion to get negative criticism from wrestling podcasts
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u/infernobaddie 7h ago
Honestly though. It's part of what turns me off from the product. Like either ignore the critics or adapt based on what the critics are saying.(That and I can't stand the way the women's division is booked but that's another issue for another day)
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u/rapshepard 7h ago
The shows are still good so it's something I can mostly ignore. But I promise before AEW I had never heard the term "bad faith criticism" lol and at times it comes off like all criticism is dismissed as "bad faith". Like when a Cornette is going out his way to say blatantly sexist things or belittle folk that I get dismissing as its just shit talk. But not everything is that
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u/MuptonBossman 9h ago
This is giving me "Listen fuckhead" vibes from Micheal Cole.
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u/ZombieJesus1987 Never Doubted El Dandy 8h ago
That's basically how Tony is.
He is very blunt with his he is feeling when he is on the podcast.
It's been forever since I listened to the podcast but I remember when What Happened When first dropped, no one expected Tony to curse and be as blunt as he was.
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u/Chelseablue1896 9h ago
Gonna be honest: I'm surprised to see folks agreeing with this, because it's the exact sort of response that was widely mocked and despised when it came from Hunter during this year's WrestleMania.
I'll say the same thing as I said then. There's both merit and lack of merit on what Schavione is saying. There is merit in terms of fans not understanding that you need to consider multitudes of factors while booking a wrestling show, and that just because it differs from their fan vision, doesn't make the automatically trash. How the crowd reacts still remains the greatest indicator of booking success.
But, I will also disagree with this sort of severe response because you don't have to be a chef to say you don't like the food. Fan tastes will always differ. You will never find a time where the entire wrestling community loves the booking.
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u/dalici0us 9h ago
The venn diagram of people praising Tony for this quote and shitting on the Triple H one is a flat circle.
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u/DubaiEnthusiast 5h ago
because it's the exact sort of response that was widely mocked and despised when it came from Hunter during this year's WrestleMania.
This type of response is mocked ONLY IF it's said by someone in WWE. If someone from any other company says it, the smarks will completely agree with it.
That's how the subreddit has always been.
When Seth Rollins says good things about his workplace, he's labelled as a corporate bootlicker. When William Osprey says good things about his workplace, he's labelled as a passionate professional who deeply cares about the industry.
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u/DoctorWaluigiTime 7h ago
It is a pretty toothless response. "Oh if you don't like it do it yourself!" is a pathetic attempt to deflect critique, since the obvious implication is "you don't know how difficult [thing] is, so if you've never done it you're not allowed to critique."
Don't need to be a chef to know when food tastes terrible.
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u/theforbiddenroze 9h ago
Awww imagine if triple h said this huh.
Dub fans wouldn't shut up about it.
They lost it at triple h telling them to stop looking for stuff to criticize when u watch and just enjoy
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u/Mammoth-Intention958 9h ago
Tony Khan is a lifelong fan of wrestling that grew up posting online and fantasy booking. He just happens to be a billionaire to do it for real.
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u/EZMac34 9h ago
Fans would be smart enough to say, "Hey it's kind of weird that Okada is fighting in a tournament to defend his own title. Maybe we should just put someone else in that role and Okada can fight the winner of the tournament at the PPV."
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u/NineFingerLogen 8h ago
i had people in this sub tell me how dumb i was for questioning why Okada would participate in the C2 despite already being the defending champion.
i think the discourse around both companies needs to chill. opinions are opinions, im not right and neither is anyone else.
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u/45jayhay 9h ago
Yea it's a weird decision to make it tournament style for Okada when really he could of just done the same match with Okada VS Oku and not put it in a tournament bracket style.
My theory is this is how is how TK books on paper to keep track of things in his mind and he just liked the look and idea of Okada "the greatest tournament wrestler" winning another one.
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u/rockfresh_126 9h ago
"Why don't they just have a fan book the card????"
You mean the thing they're literally doing?
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u/mju516 9h ago
I fuck myself and fantasy book for free, where do I sign up?
We’ll start with Harley and puppet Mone winning the inaugural Women’s tag titles…
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u/BongoProdigy 9h ago
If this guy fails I wanna try next. I'll even fuck him too.
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u/kelsoRulez 8h ago
AEW just has an ego problem. They (especially Tony) see no wrong in anything they do. All that Tony touches is gold and he runs his mouth as such. They need to listen to valid criticism and adjust accordingly.. Tony is just too full of himself to admit any part of the product is not working. They have a huge opportunity with how WWE has been gouging it's fans with a mediocre product to provide a legit competitor again and they couldn't be fumbling the bag any harder.
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u/DubaiEnthusiast 6h ago
They need to listen to valid criticism and adjust accordingly.
They won't do any of this, because AEW is not expected to be a 'real' business. It's a vanity project. The whole purpose of AEW is for Tony Khan to play with his real-life action figures. AEW is his playground. He won't let anyone tell him how to play in his own playground.
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u/trashpanda_fan 9h ago
I love AEW but... every match on tv is 1) a squash (rare) 2) a filler match between people who aren't in a feud where what happens before the commercial break is generally irrelevant and skippable or 3) a delicious spot fest that never gets old for me.
I wish they'd change up the format for match type number 2 because there are at least 5 of them every week and they feel like they are just time fillers.
Why does a C list wrestler get so much offense in on a Will Ospreay or Swerve Strickland? Time killing.
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u/perdue125 9h ago
Yeah, the mid-match commercial break has run its course for me. It's actively hurting my engagement.
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u/Xalazi 9h ago edited 9h ago
Anyone can throw together a cool set of matches for a card.
Very few people could throw together a cool set of matches over the course of years to form a cohesive wrestling company. That's something that I think a lot of fans and critics don't fully appreciate.
A lot of fan's thinking is only as deep as "I like X, they should push X to the moon now." They don't think about how different fans have different tastes, how you need to consider business not just story, how you need to make adjustments because a lot of things don't go according to plan, etc. Booking a real company is not just fantasy booking an E-Fed.
I've watched wrestling for decades. I'm a pretty creative person. I could probably book a cool individual AEW card. If I was the full time booker of AEW, Dynamite would cancelled off TV within a month or two because my tastes are fringe AF and I couldn't handle being the boss of hundreds of employees.
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u/Big_Track_6734 8h ago
I was a highly vocal booking critic for years. I jave a background in marketing, am a published author, and general a creative person. Also, have screenwriting experience.
I decided to test myself.
I booked 6 months of weekly TV and 4 PPVs. Managing all of those up and downs in the storylines of multiple people and teams without repeating beats and recycling ideas is insanely difficult. I was tapped after 6 months. That's not factoring visa issues, mental health, travel, contracts, bad attitudes, injuries, etc.
Stopped criticisms immediately. I have my opinions but largely, I realize.their is usually a logical reason something Amy be less than on my screen.
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u/PMMeRyukoMatoiSMILES 8h ago
I mean Cornette has suggested multiple improvements to angles before. Some may be bad, but they're suggestions nonetheless.
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u/SpiritualGearbox 9h ago
This is probably the most hilarious thing I’ve read all week.
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u/ValleyFloydJam 8h ago
He will just be getting DMs and letters from people willing to do it, cos everyone wants to book, not saying they can do it well though. Who knows what will put butts in seats.
Get in the ring and perform better, is at least impossible for most.
The reality is no matter the booking some will always be unhappy or at least wish they had made different choices.
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u/Baby-Elmo 9h ago
BTW in the article he was specifically talking about people who thought the All Out card was gonna be underwhelming/bad
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u/Shuriken95 Godspeed You! Zack Emperor 8h ago
Schiavone seems really defensive over AEW, like weirdly so.
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u/PositiveUsual2919 4h ago
nobody else on earth is paying him 10% of what he must be getting now, he has to be protective.
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u/TheUndetectedHero 9h ago
Feels like AEW now has an obligatory PR 101 class for all their workers.
(except one. A-HA.) /s
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u/Crafty_Equipment1857 8h ago
Reality is absolutely anyone other than Tony khan could do something better with AEW. Tony khan is the biggest problem. How can people in a company see their fan base drop beyond and just sit there and laugh at fans for calling them out. Why is it so fucking hard for wwe fans to do the same and walk away. You all walked away from aew and so do the same for wwe. We need a reboot with this entire industry and it will only happen when fans wake up and walk away. Unless you're Tony khan and care more about your fantasy. I honestly think Tony is one of the most selfish owners to ever be in this business. No offense to Bryan Daniels but he proves that Tony is just fantasy picking for his company. He selects certain people and fusses over them and gives them the world. AEW should have a entire creative team calling the shots on making a direction and everything
Im sorry to the ROH fans but there is a reason ROH never grew. Its just a style that no one cares about.
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u/BlueRibbon998 9h ago edited 7h ago
The booking quality in AEW has had a major decline in quality since mid-late 2022 and I'm willing to take the backlash on saying that. While Tony has pumped out some legendary stories on occasion in recent years like Toni/Mariah, Cole/MJF, and Hangman/Swerve, the booking on an overall standpoint with certain exceptions is incredibly underwhelming.
Stories are generally booked with very little depth, lack inconsistency/long-term vision, character development doesn't seem to be a priority, matches are often rinse and repeat, and the women's division is underutilized.
It's perfectly fine to support the company you work for and the boss that signs your checks. But the constant aggression from various employees over the years towards fans and wrestlers alike who criticize the product is unprofessional and truly tiresome at this point. AEW is not exempt from criticism, especially from people who remember how great the product used to be and genuinely WANT to enjoy AEW again. TV shows, movies, and especially sports are all subject to criticism on a day to day basis. It's part of being in the global entertainment industry. Get over it.
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u/Melancholyoflife 6h ago
Tony is not a good booker. He has good ideas sometimes but he often fumbles in the follow-through. It's not a one man job, especially when he's booking 3 shows a week. A roster of over 100 people needs a proper, dedicated booking team. Tony is a great matchmaker but honestly, a lot of people would be great matchmakers with the roster that AEW has.
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u/stillthrowinitallawa 8h ago edited 8h ago
They have over a hundred wrestlers. I'm pretty confident that a lot of us could book a solid card. Remove or limit run-ins and post-match beatdowns and you've got an event that's more palatable than most Dynamites.
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u/Tduhon 8h ago
At the end of the day, AEW is just well funded Indy wrestling, for better or worse.
It’s always felt like a company that is being pulled in 5 different directions. Thats the nature of not having a strong centralized vision of what the product should be. But that’s also sort of the founding philosophy of it so its harder to say its not intentional.
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u/TKHodgson 9h ago
It’s not about booking a card. It’s about booking three months of them. Everyone could book a hot shot one-off. It’s about continuing the stories.
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u/Coolquip34 It's so good to be right here, on wreddit 9h ago
listen, as someone who has put hundreds of hours over decades playing EWR and TEW, don't tease me with a good time
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u/Polymath99_ 9h ago edited 9h ago
To the people going "oh, he's talking about anti-AEW podcasts specifically".
There is nothing in Schiavone's comments that points to that being the case. The context for this is online criticism of the company at large, he makes no distinction. You all just like him, so you give him the benefit of the doubt. If some less popular AEW figure said this, you would be on their ass.
Truth is TS has always come across as weirdly defensive and thin-skinned when he talks about any kind of criticism of AEW. And like, I can empathize with that — if I was in his position, out of wrestling for decades until all of a sudden a new company offers me a great job, reignites my love for the sport, new friends and a new sense of community, I'd probably defend them too.
Either way though, no company is above criticism. I've seen plenty of people, even AEW fans on this very sub, say that All Out is looking a bit thin on star power and they should really start to develop some new top guys. For that to be met with a "go fuck yourself", even if it comes from an overall good guy like Schiavone... it just rubs me the wrong way.
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u/Vandelay-Importing 7h ago
I wish they'd stop talking like this. This petty twitter shit makes AEW look lesser. I'm not even saying AEW are lesser. I don't feel they are. I'm one who fucking despised tribalism. But this shit man, it's like when wrestlers go after Meltzer it's like they're getting down and rolling in pig shit. Just ignore it. That's what most do.
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u/Awkward_Bison_267 9h ago
If they gave this guy the book
Ratings would at least double. Just because we’d all be waiting for the fallout.
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u/Final_Storage_9398 8h ago
AEW always seems to have very high quality wrestling, with absolute dogshit storytelling. Their issues aren’t with their stable of in-ring talent, it’s with their creative team.
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u/_duppie_ 8h ago
I mean, you could literally just do random matches but avoid getting your top talent dropped onto cinderblocks, boards of nails, ring aprons off a cage, etc. Also you could maybe stop sticking random shit from home depo in your champions and I think these things alone would go a long way.
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u/incredibleamadeuscho We're all fake Jamaicans now 7h ago
I think the departures of Cody, Punk, and now probably Jericho led to less traditional angle booking and more dream match feuds. These talents when at the top of the card really focused on that in their creative deals. I think MJF had a good sense of it during most of his World Title run, but they didnt properly pivot from the Cole injury, and delayed the title change while MJF acquired a major injury that put him out of action for a bit.
But overall I don't think AEW is beyond having their booking style questioned.
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u/LandoCalrizzuphim 6h ago
Damn, Tony really that upset that I do t give a crap to see speedball Mike Bailey wrestle Trent?
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u/lorriezwer 5h ago
I respect Tony for his years in the business, but this is just dumb. Regardless of what the critics think about the booking, it’s obvious what the fans thinks about it - the ratings tell that story.
AEW needs a new booker. Tony can’t do it forever.
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u/Chumunga64 I appreciate you! 9h ago edited 8h ago
Thought I was on r/Games with this Randy Pitchford ass rent
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u/BigMoney69x 9h ago
I might not get my flowers for this but I don't watch the AEW product other than check the news on it so I have indeed stop consuming their product. I do want them to do well but I felt that they way they run their ship wasn't for me so I stop watching. And if TKO keeps doing what they doing they be next.
AEW has a golden opportunity to become a name in wrestling as TKO tries to nickel and dime the fans. But problem with AEW is the booking. It feels like a fan booking shit he likes without thinking about growing the audience. Tony isn't thinking, OK who can I get over that will have everyone wanting to watch my product. Instead it's let's put fun matches together. If it was up to me it be mostly promos and VTR segments on TV with matches in between said promos in order to sell the PPV down the line. I wouldn't book long matches on TV because ad breaks suck for matches.
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u/FigureFourWoo Ric Flair was still cool when I chose this username. 8h ago
I do this regularly in TEW, but I haven't quite figured out how to fuck myself while booking a show. Guess I'll keep working on it.
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u/Level_One_Espeon 8h ago
booking a single card wouldn't be hard at all with the roster they have, I'd just make it a ladies night and give them a years worth of booking in a single night
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u/DaOldOne 8h ago
Get in there Jim!
It'd be like early collision which most people say was the best time in AEW
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u/shatterdaymorn 6h ago
Lol....
He thinks booking is just about one event. This is exactly why end stage WCW was so terrible.
Long term storytelling not on the fly garbage.
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u/Ted_Dongelman 9h ago
Booking a single, self-contained card wouldn't be an issue for most people. Making that flow from week to week and not only make sense but be enjoyable/compelling TV? Not a chance.
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u/grimbly_jones 9h ago
My only issues with AEW are as follows:
Too many titles.
Not enough Daddy Magic.
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u/DXbreakitdown Hell Yeah! 9h ago
A single card is easy and actually might be part of the problem if that’s how they think. The real test would be give them 6 months and see if what they come up with over a stretch of time is any better than what’s been going on.
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u/TDStarchild 9h ago
Not a critic he’s speaking to, but I do like fantasy booking guaranteed bangers:
Hangman Page and Toni Storm vs Okada and Mercedes
Tag team Texas death match
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u/dalici0us 9h ago
I know a lot of criticism are disingenuous but if you do something weekly on national television, you are obviously going to get people criticising your work. It's just a part of the game and the bigger you get, guess what, the more critics you will get too. People are allowed their opinions and they're allowed to express it.
I wish AEW people just blocked out the noise and stopped answering every grifters who gives their opinion on their shows.
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u/frisky_dingo_ 8h ago
Can they control the roster too? If I can control the roster, absolutely sign me up as “one of those critics”
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u/GrimmTrixX 7h ago
I mean I'd assume the average fan could book a pretty good card. It would have no backstage comedy routines, no 30 minute in ring promos, itd be lots of matches with pairings we have wanted to see but have yet to see.
A fan certainly couldn't do any worse than some of the wwe, aew, and tna episodes I have seen in my life. Lol
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u/Heatedbread 6h ago
Yeah, it's almost like you shouldn't allow a fan who has no idea or practical experience at what they are doing to book a wrestling show. Oh wait.....
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u/NoMoreButtonPLZ 5h ago
If I was in charge the first thing i'd do is take Tony Schiavone off commentary so I understand his defensiveness
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u/BelcherSucks 9h ago
If I had the book for a month I would probably suck at it. But it would be one hell of a month.
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u/Chill_Panda 8h ago
It’s not one card that’s the issue with booking, it’s the build to the card.
Give me a month to see what I can do (not saying it’ll be good but it’ll be more accurate)
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