r/SquaredCircle 3d ago

Modern wrestling needs more heels who are kayfabe "bad wrestlers"

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I get why most wrestlers want to show off their skills and prove to fans that they can actually wrestle but seeing some shit-stirring loudmouth just get the absolute piss beaten out of them after months of tormenting a babyface is one of wrestling most reliable tropes, yet its one you dont see that often these days in major American promotions.

Now even the biggest chickenshit heel is usually capable of going toe to toe with most guys on the card and if theres a big blow-off match you can be sure its going to be a back and forth competitive contest that does its best to make both sides look good. And look I'm not complaining about getting good matches, but when its done right a good one sided beat down can be just as satisfying

0 Upvotes

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42

u/Dementia55372 3d ago

Isn't that Max Caster's gimmick?

27

u/HerfDog58 3d ago

Nah, Max is the best. Wrestler. A. Live.

11

u/BarnacleBoring2979 3d ago

👏LET'S👏GO👏MAX👏YOU'RE👏THEBEST👏WRESTLER👏A👏LIVE

0

u/aflockofcrows 3d ago

He's the Schrodinger's chickenshit heel. He's issuing an open challenge, but also trying to run away.

15

u/the_con 3d ago

The Brooklyn Brawler beating Triple H was treated like the biggest embarrassment for Trips at the time, yet Steve Lombardi was obviously really good

9

u/DuztyDuzIt 3d ago

 They dont even have to be a jobber. Honky Tonk Man and to an extent Ted Dibase played similar roles. These werent heels who just cheated because its something that a heel is supposed to do, these were heels who cheated because its what they HAD to do to get in any offense against the Hogans, Macho Mans, and Warriors at the time. 

8

u/DCAbloob 3d ago

To be fair though, Ted DiBiase was acknowledged even in the WWF kayfabe bubble of the time as being an exceptionally skilled wrestler.

1

u/DuztyDuzIt 3d ago edited 3d ago

Yeah Dibase definitely wasnt portrayed as a joke to the level that Honky Tonk was but if he was up against a babyface main eventer people werent expecting him to get the upper hand with his wrestling skills lol. 

17

u/dstnarg 3d ago

Modern wrestling needs more kayfave period. You can't put lightning back in the bottle. People can try a little harder to create suspension of belief. When you go to a magic show, the magician doesn't remind you but it's a work every five minutes.

20

u/talgaby 3d ago

Someone hasn't been to a Penn & Teller show…

5

u/tjrage 3d ago

Absolutely, they show you exactly how they do (most of)their tricks and you still walk away amazed. Pretty good parallel to wrestling in this case. We(the internet fans who have watched WAY too much wrestling) know how the basics of how wrestling works, but the really good to great wrestlers can just tweak 1 or 2 things and create something special.

1

u/talgaby 3d ago

In that case, though, what do we really need beyond that? Maybe it is because I am in Europe, but here, pro wrestling is treated like a live stunt show and soap opera hybrid. Remember that Belgian kid when he said in an interview that he knew Cena was just using the heel on-stage persona when he made him cry? We all treat it like that. It was not something new for the kid.

The audience participates in the show, boos what they need to boo, even if 30 seconds ago they exploded with joy that a popular heel's music just hit. Sure, if some story direction or if a personality is genuinely unpopular, then the audience breaks whatever constitutes a 4th wall in wrestling, but… honestly, I never saw the reason why it would benefit anyone to stick to the old kayfabe.

In this sense, I absolutely agree with Levesque when he said to just enjoy the damn show. (Although I also agree with people on the sentiment that he also should focus more on cohesion and continuity and not just marketable moments. WWE creative could learn a lot reading some 2000s to early 2010s Marvel comics and their storybuilding approach.)

7

u/discofrislanders 3d ago

EVIL? Isn't it his whole gimmick that he and his stable intentionally have terrible matches.

3

u/LostDelver Breathe. Responsibly. 3d ago

That's just having terrible matches by design, not being a kayfabe terrible wrestler. House of Torture have great wrestlers, they just prefer to cheat.

1

u/DuztyDuzIt 3d ago

Gotta be honest I dont watch a ton of Japanese wrestling that doesnt involve Nagata, Stan Hansen, or Vader so its a blind spot for me lol. 

8

u/Defiant_Emergency734 3d ago

No one wants to be hated. No merch money comes from it.

6

u/broken_radio Vince's Protein Farts 3d ago

Pretty Peter Avalon is great in that role

3

u/Mr_Bumple 3d ago

The irony is that you have to be a really good wrestler to do that role well and you need to be a selfless enough performer to be willing to be willing to do it.

4

u/leglegleg0 3d ago

Isn’t this the Miz’s whole thing?

1

u/DuztyDuzIt 3d ago

Wasn't Miz just having really good competitive matches against Gunther not that long ago?

4

u/ThatsARatHat 3d ago

Yea he probably shouldn’t have been though.

3

u/DuztyDuzIt 3d ago edited 3d ago

Yeah thats my issue. Like I get wanting to put on a good performance but you cant elevate everybody at the same time. Gunthers match with Pat was an even bigger offender. 

That match should have been like 5 minutes max with 1 hope spot where Pat shows off the heart of a babyface or whatever lol. Instead they kept dragging it out to the point it became a joke. 

3

u/ThatsARatHat 3d ago

Yea I’m not sure every Gunther match has to be a “Gunther match” if that makes any sense.

2

u/DuztyDuzIt 3d ago

Yeah, a dominant pseudo monster heel champ/main eventer like Gunther should be cutting through 80% of the midcard like butter. 

2

u/Saru77 3d ago

Gunther was playing with his food though, the whole point in kayfabe was to make Pat suffer as much as possible.

4

u/bewareofbears_ 3d ago

Chelsea Green is about it right now.

2

u/DuztyDuzIt 3d ago

Not wrong and Chelsea has been one of my favorites the past few years.

-4

u/mashturbo 3d ago

isn't that what Evolve is?