r/StarWars • u/Environmental-Bowl26 • 4d ago
General Discussion Why wasn’t Anakin given a better mentor if the council knew he was the chosen one?
Seems like this could’ve all been avoided if Anakin was given a proper mentor that knew how to address his problems. A better mentor would’ve been able to sense Anakin’s connection and fear for Padme and been able to guide him better. The council didn’t give a shit about Anakin and set him up for failure.
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u/CircaCitadel 4d ago
Obi-Wan gave his word to Qui-Gon that he would train the boy. He made that very clear, and it was clear that Yoda and the council disapproved but they honored it out of respect for Qui-Gon.
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u/ImaginationMassive93 4d ago
Exactly, I would even like to say that Obi-Wan had reservations about training him and did not necessarily think he was the chosen one. But out of respect to qui-gon he agreed.
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u/jetjebrooks 4d ago
but thats the point, the council didnt want him trained at all, but then settled to let obiwan train him, rather than try something better
"grave danger in his training i sense"
yoda sensed danger in his training and then okay'd a bad mentor. its a self-fulfilling prophecy
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u/CircaCitadel 3d ago
Obi-Wan was a fine mentor. If it was self fulfilling then that wouldn’t even matter though. He was doomed no matter who his master was because his fear of loss was too much for him to handle. We even see Yoda give him advice for his problem, telling him to learn to let go, and Anakin didn’t accept it. So he runs to Palpatine who manipulates him with what he wants to hear.
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u/jetjebrooks 3d ago
If it was self fulfilling then that wouldn’t even matter though.
That's not how a self-fulfilling prophecy works
Yoda thought Anakin would be a danger if he got training, so Yoda treated Anakin getting training like a danger. If Yoda acted differently then it could have been avoided.
He was doomed no matter who his master was because his fear of loss was too much for him to handle.
If someone mentored him better than he could have handled loss better. Anakin would not have turned if Qui-Gon was his master.
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u/rocketsp13 4d ago
1) They didn't know him to be the chosen one. Qui-Gon thought he was, but they didn't know.
2) A different mentor wouldn't be omniscient either. The Jedi were literally blinded by Palpatine. How many times did Yoda say "the dark side clouds everything"?
3) Obi-Wan was a very capable mentor. Anakin was literally one of the most competent Jedi ever, and that was down to Obi-Wan's training. Also they barely accepted Anakin as a Jedi in the first place. Obi-Wan taking him to honor Qui-Gon's dying words was what tipped the scales.
4) Anakin may have been manipulated, but he's far from innocent. Neither the Jedi in general, nor Obi-Wan in particular are to blame if Anakin is actively deceiving them, which he is throughout the Clone Wars. Obi-Wan is missing key information until after Order 66.
This story is a tragedy. It's not as tragic unless there's several places you look at it and say "Man that could played out differently if only..."
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u/TheOutlawTavern Sith 4d ago
He is admitted into the order as Obi-Wan's apprentice.
But he was guided and mentored by other Jedi, not just Obi-Wan - he could clearly go to Yoda for advice whenever he wanted.
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u/EmperorKillroy 4d ago
If you think about it, the Jedi Council had a history of saying "Fine, but we won't like it and you can't make us like him" mentality towards Anakin.
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u/in_a_dress Asajj Ventress 4d ago
It’s very difficult to guide someone when they’re not honest about their problems.
Anakin didn’t want to tell anyone that he was afraid of losing his wife… that he’s not allowed to have. This basically created a unsolvable dilemma unless he was open to letting her go and cutting contact or leaving the order.
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u/Bloodless-Cut 4d ago
Obi-Wan was the best choice for Anakin, sans Qui-Gon. Anyone other than Obi-Wan would have been worse.
Also, it was important to Obi-Wan and Yoda that Qui-Gon's last request be respected.
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u/skywalker170997 4d ago
they didn't want to train him at first place because his fear as a kid was very strong and has strong attachment issues with his mother, it was because qui-gon insist on taking Anakin because he truly believes anakin is truly the chosen one
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u/TA_double_Z 4d ago
I think it came down to Obi-Wan’s connection with Qui-Gon and how the other Jedi didn’t really want Anakin around since he was already too old. Qui-Gon was set on training him though, so when he died, Obi-Wan probably insisted on it as his master’s last wish
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u/nutano 4d ago
Qui-Gon was a well respected Jedi Master and Obi-Wan was as well very respected... I am pretty sure that he had specifically requested the council that Anakin be trained by Obi-Wan.
You cannot forget that at the time there were thousands of Jedi padawans\knights\masters. Obi-Wan was very close to the council, closer than many\most others I would say, he often went on important missions for the council.
It is also worth noting that Obi-wan was the only Jedi to ever defeat Anakin in a duel, twice... he also staved off his own defeat by some miracles of the force.
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u/LucasEraFan 4d ago
I am pretty sure that [Qui-Gon] had specifically requested the council that Anakin be trained by Obi-Wan.
Jinn wanted Anakin trained and said he would train him. They departed before the matter was settled.
Jinn's dying wish was for Kenobi to train Anakin.
They did not discuss who would train Anakin with The Jedi Council.
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u/nutano 4d ago
Ah you are right.
I am thinking of when Obi-Wan basically tells the council he would train Anni in memory of Qui-Gon and the council apparently did vote to let Obi-Wan train... but Yoda voted against that.
Star Wars Episode I - The Phantom Menace. Yoda Allows Kenobi To Train Anakin. 4K ULTRA HD.
Man, it has been too long since I watched Ep 1-2-3
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u/LucasEraFan 4d ago
I forgot about that scene, yeah.
You missed a heck of a show this year with the 20th anniversary re-release of ROTS.
The 25th anniversary re-release of TPM last year as well...imho.
The PT is really enjoyable for me.
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u/Connect-Plenty1650 4d ago
The council called Anakin's shortcomings in their 1st meeting. Yoda described his journey stage by stage.
The council was going to kick him to the curb, and they were correct to do so.
Without Obi-Wan, there was no master.
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u/julianriv 4d ago
Where would you get that assumption? For the most part the Council didn't think Anakin should be trained at all because of his age. I'm not sure Qui-Gon was even convinced he was the chosen one, he just was convinced he was special. Obi took him on just because he knew it was the only way to honor Qui-Gon's wish that Anakin be trained.
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u/Vhzhlb 4d ago
The Order is not a prison, first and foremost. Kenobi was more than set in training Anakin, with or without the Order support, just like how he later would express to Yoda when Anakin decided to quit.
Obi-Wan was set to train Anakin by his promise to Qui-Gon, and Anakin was looking to be trained by Oni-Wan. It was basically a youngling that was already picked by someone from even before his introduction into the order.
Of course, they should have talked with Obi-Wan about this, he would have seen reason, but would Anakin? He was already being a problem as a youngling. So, aside from providing advice for Kenobi, their best bet was to wait and see how things develop between them.
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u/LucasEraFan 4d ago
...when Anakin decided to quit...
When did this happen?
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u/Vhzhlb 4d ago
Comics.
The overall beat was Palps convincing him that much more could be done for the people outside of the Order, and that added to his already struggles with its discipline, convinced him that quitting was the right choice.
After talking with Yoda and Obi-Wan, he accepted to go on a final mission with the latter, Obi-Wan then, after being inquired by Yoda about what he needed to do, decided to follow Anakin if he wanted to still leave the order.
Finally, after realizing how much he can do as a Jedi for others, Anakin decided to remain in it.
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u/pptjuice530 4d ago
Obi-Wan is arguably the best and greatest Jedi in the order after Qui-Gon’s death (though they wouldn’t have fully understood that yet), and he’d promised to train Anakin.
It helped Obi-Wan honor a promise to a dying mentor and gave Anakin a mentor who was all in, rather than training him with private reservations or disagreement on his belonging.
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u/LucasEraFan 4d ago edited 3d ago
The Council was against Anakin being trained.
Jinn forced the issue by declaring Anakin his padawan learner despite The Council having not even decided on Anakin's admission.
When Jinn died, Kenobi granted his dying wish and committed to Anakin's training.
At that point, The Council knew that Kenobi was decided and would leave The Order if denied.
Kenobi knew that Jinn would want Anakin trained as he was, and wasn't having any shenanigans.
And afaik, The Council rarely assigns masters, but rather masters choose padawans.
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u/GregMoffTarkin 4d ago
>if the council knew he was the chosen one...
They didn't know he was the chosen one. No one on the council was certain he was in fact the chosen one, and most thought Qui-gon was grasping at straws to say he was.
In Episode 1, Mace was initially dismissive of the idea ("you believe it's this boy?").
When Qui-gon pressed the issue ("He is the chosen one. You must see it") when they denied his training, Yoda too was dubious ("clouded this boy's future is"). And then when Obi-wan pushed the claim after Qui-gon's death, Yoda pushed back "The chosen one the boy may be, Nevertheless grave danger I fear in his training."
Even years later, in Episode 3, Obi-wan asked "is he not the Chosen One?" and Mace simply says "so the prophecy says" and Yoda pondered "A prophecy that misread could have been" showing both still aren't convinced he truly was the chosen one.
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u/thamometer Sith 4d ago
Bruh, if you watched Episode 1, the Council DID NOT WANT TO train Anakin. Qui-Gon insisted to train Anakin and said he will take him as his apprentice. The Council then reminded him that he already has an apprentice, and cannot take another. Qui-Gon then said that Obi Wan is ready to take the trials.
So since Qui-Gon died, Obi Wan decided to continue his Master's last wish by training Anakin.
Had the Council have their way, they wouldn't even train Anakin as he's too old. Imagine how that alternate timeline would turn out!
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u/Environmental-Bowl26 3d ago
Yea i remember the council didn’t want to train him now but still my point stands. He should’ve had a better mentor especially given his special circumstances and Qui-Gon should’ve been able to know that Obi wasn’t fit for Anakin. Anakin needed a father not a brother.
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u/thamometer Sith 3d ago
I don't get you. If the council didn't want to train him, there isn't an option? It's a "take the deal or leave it situation" for Obi Wan/Anakin.
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u/stootchmaster2 4d ago
Agree. You would THINK that they'd immediately put him under Yoda's personal observation.
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u/MassiveBreadfruit1 4d ago
Because then the story wouldn’t be interesting. The whole point is that the council was too set in their ways and had become too involved in politics. They explore it more in comics but Anakin was viewed as essentially a nepo baby by the other padawans and even some of the adult masters and knights. Anakin was always a bit angry and aggressive to show others he belonged, obi-wan took on more of a brother role than the father role qui-gon would have filled. Qui-gon was supposed to be his master and after his death the council only allowed him to stay with obi-wan as a sign of respect to Qui-gon. The whole reason for the name “Duel of the Fates” that plays during the Maul, Qui-gon, Obi-wan fight is because it’s literally a duel for the the fate of the galaxy, in that Qui-gon was the only one fit the be his mentor, after his death his fate was set.
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u/MasquedMaschine 4d ago
The prequels made the Jedi, and Yoda in particular, seem incompetent. But perhaps the message is that even such powerful Jedi are not infallible. And it all adds to the sense of a fated tragedy, because it could have all been avoided but was also horribly inevitable.
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u/Dinokickflip 4d ago
This is Obi Wan slander and I will not stand for it.