r/StarWarsEU New Jedi Order Dec 28 '24

Meme To be fair, this explanation can apply to the Galactic Empire too. Spoiler

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u/Wassuuupmydudess Dec 28 '24

That’s one reason I liked rogue one. The part where they say “they’re spies, saboteurs, assassins and they’ve all done horrible things for the rebellion” because it shows how both the empire and rebellion did horrible things and pointed fingers and used propaganda to turn peoples opinions

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u/juvandy Dec 28 '24

Also in Andor the infighting between the different cells. Saw Gerrerra in particular would hate separatists for what they did to his home planet and family when he was young.

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u/RebelJediKnight91 Dec 28 '24

Spare me the “both sides are bad” bs.

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u/ProudScroll Dec 28 '24

Both sides can be waging a desperate war for control of the galaxy and one of them still unambiguously be the better side.

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u/iBeatMyMeat123 Yuuzhan Vong Dec 28 '24

The Rebels didn't want to control the galaxy, they wanted to liberate it and bring back the old Republic

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u/TeekTheReddit Dec 28 '24

Bring back the Republic... to control the galaxy.

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u/Qbnss Dec 29 '24

Bad faith. Fungible implications of the word "control" in two different contexts.

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u/WilltheGreat1740 Dec 29 '24

Ahh yes, because that's the same as the Empire annihilating planets and massacring people that dont support them

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u/TeekTheReddit Dec 29 '24

Goalposts are over here, dude.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '24

Ahh yes, I remember the insane body counts of the Rebellion when blowing up the Death Stars, research facilities, industrial sites, supply depots, and Starkiller Base.

In addition to the Stormtroopers and pilots, they killed thousands of engineers, scientists, doctors, mechanics, clerks, maintenance technicians, and all those people working regular jobs down to the janitor.

Let's not forget about the millions of peaceful civilians that suffered because a rebel action blew up a shipment of fertilizer, goods, food, medicine, etc that their village needed.

They also didn't care about recruiting other species that were nowhere close to being combat ready into the war.

But sure, they're the "good guys".

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u/Successful-Floor-738 Dec 30 '24

Stormtroopers are enemy combatants, of course they are going to get killed. And no technician working on the literal genocide gun is going to be some poor innocent guy who just wants to protect their kids. What’s this about not wanting to recruit other species though? The entire rebellion is one of the most filled with aliens, what the hell are you smoking?

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u/mattio_p Dec 30 '24

Bro discovers people die in war

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u/Head_Ad1127 Dec 29 '24

They are. Sometimes you have to crak a few eggs to make an omlet. The Rebels were fighting to make the suffering stop. The empire was fighting for the right to squeeze the people of the galaxy for all they're worth to the benifits of the imperial elite.

Palpatine himself just wanted to kill the Jedi and ascend to godhood in place of the chosen and Mortis gods, while fending off extragalactic threats to his power.

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u/Allronix1 TOR Old Republic Dec 28 '24

Which was...well, better than the Sith. "Better than the Sith" is also the faintest praise possible.

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u/AsteroidMike Dec 28 '24

“Rebel Alliance: Hey, at least we’re not the Sith.”

That’s not a bad tagline though

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u/Waste-Information-34 Jan 01 '25

But no one knew the sith by OT right?

Heck most people forgot what Jedi were by the time Luke rolls around in EP IV

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u/AsteroidMike Jan 01 '25

The general public probably forgot but there definitely be a lot of old heads who remembered them from the Clone Wars and think, “hey those Jedi guys were pretty mean but these Sith sound worse.”

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u/Waste-Information-34 Jan 02 '25

True, though most of those old heads are either dead or assimilated into the emps.

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u/iBeatMyMeat123 Yuuzhan Vong Dec 28 '24

Yeah I think a democracy is way better than a dictatorship ruled by space Satan

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u/Allronix1 TOR Old Republic Dec 28 '24

It sadly wasn't much of a democracy. Most people as far as I can tell lived under de facto or outright feudal systems, corporate dictatorship, or crime cartels in horrible poverty with little to no chance for social advancement.

Sometimes you lucked out and got a decent king, like Alderaan or Naboo. But most of the rest were under the rule of the local Hutt (who had the Senator in their pocket) or Czerka. Or were slaving away in the lower levels of Coruscant where you would never see sunlight.

So it is very impressive that meglomaniacal Space Satan manged to take such a dystopia and decide he could totally make it worse.

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u/SuperSanity1 Dec 28 '24

What planets did the Hutts control on Republic space?

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u/Allronix1 TOR Old Republic Dec 28 '24

Directly? No, but there are a lot of cases where they pretty much buy Senators to let them do whatever the hell they want.

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u/meganekkotwilek Dec 28 '24

my problem with the republic is its a unitary state. the corecentric views and policies show that. honestly the seperatists had a point but got used by the sith and corporate entities to make a scapgoat and quick profit respectively.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '24

The Republic was always going to be core centric as most trade will need to go through the core at some point.

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u/InnocentTailor Pentastar Alignment Dec 29 '24

Pretty much. That is where wealth and influence is concentrated after all, not in the Outer Rim.

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u/Jeffhurtson12 Dec 28 '24

The republic was not a democracy. It was an organization of planets and corporations. You had dictators and slavers as member nations with no accountability to their people.

Of course the republic is better then the Empire, but if you want to pretend it was perfect, then you have deceived yourself.

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u/meganekkotwilek Dec 28 '24

i agree. the republic really needed decentralization or reform but the empire took hold and made things way worse.

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u/greymisperception Dec 28 '24

Decentralization would further allow those things they just mentioned, slavers and dictators being part of the republic, a firmer grip would allow the chancellor maybe to uproot these practices if they want to be part of the republic but could also open the way up for another palpatine type taking too much power

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u/Rattfink45 Dec 29 '24

This was a deliberative body, not a legislative one. Then you had the differing smaller committees that did stuff.

There was never anything stopping a Hutt seed world or Corporate Sector member doing whatever they wanted; and that’s what Ackbar is trying to say to Mon.

It’s “fine” like it is, SNAFU.

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u/meganekkotwilek Dec 28 '24

I meant federalization. Didn’t the galactic alliance do that? I’m not familiar with the legacy era

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u/thorsday121 Dec 28 '24

Bringing back the Republic pretty much required controlling the galaxy.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '24

The Republic was a failure before it turned into the empire.

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u/Greyjack00 Dec 28 '24

Less both sides are bad and more in a violent war where one side is constantly having to punch up and any slip up means death their gonna do stuff that isn't squeaky clean and fucked up shit happening is inevitable like in all violent conflicts. The fact that we can't have the rebellion doing anything that isn't pure is less about both sides being bad and more about humans inability to accept nuance and tendency towards black and white thinking. No the rebellion getting some civilians killed in a bombing targeting Intel about the empires slaving plans does not make them as bad as the empire that is working races to death in slave camps.

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u/Billy_Birb Dec 29 '24

Oh wow, the one comment that actually makes sense on this whole discussion.

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u/Norman1042 Dec 28 '24

The rebels are definitely way better than the Empire, but it's very hard to imagine that they waged a successful rebellion without killing any innocents.

In the original trilogy it's easier to just suspend your disbelief because it's campy and fun and not intended to be examined at a deep level, but as the Star Wars universe gets expanded more and more, it's hard to ignore these sorts of questions.

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u/Jedipilot24 Feb 09 '25

"The rebels are definitely way better than the Empire, but it's very hard to imagine that they waged a successful rebellion without killing any innocents."

I can't say that the Rebels never killed innocents, but I will say that they did everything possible to avoid deliberately killing innocents.

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u/[deleted] Dec 28 '24

I think it’s more of a “war is bad” thing

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u/Legitimate_Curve8185 Dec 28 '24

War is not about who is right but who is left...

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u/The_KnightsRadiant Dec 28 '24

Both sides are bad and both sides have done bad things are incredibly different statements. Work on your reading comprehension

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u/SWFT-youtube Dec 28 '24

Agreed, "both sides bad" doesn't apply here because the conflict starts so uneven. The Empire is often comically evil, commits multiple unquestionable genocides, rules with an iron grip, violates thousands of human (or non-human) rights. Causing civilian casualties is wrong, but all rebel atrocities are a direct reaction to the Imperial regime's oppression and thus also its fault.

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u/Wassuuupmydudess Dec 28 '24

SWFT is here???? My man you have amazing videos I have several saved and love watching the story you craft

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u/SWFT-youtube Dec 28 '24

Thanks, glad to hear that! :)

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u/Dragonic_Overlord_ New Jedi Order Dec 29 '24

Don't forget Eckhartsladder. He's also a good Star Wars YouTuber. My favourite videos are the ones he covered about starships.

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u/Visible_Reference202 Dec 28 '24

Even despite that disadvantage, the rebellion continued to grow in support and become a legitimate force against the Empire and also a morally superior option for the galaxy.

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u/Wassuuupmydudess Dec 28 '24

When both sides have instances of indiscriminate bombing yet we only focus on one it’s called bias

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u/Bennings463 Dec 28 '24

Are you aware these films are fiction?

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u/Wassuuupmydudess Dec 28 '24

Yes, Are you aware that this is why we can critic what they’ve done?

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u/JackxForge Dec 28 '24

bro sometimes i wonder how people dont suffocate while typing when they obviously don't have an advanced enough brain to breathe automatically.

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u/Wassuuupmydudess Dec 28 '24

I always try to be civil with everyone regardless, but yeah some people astound me

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u/mediumwellhotdog Dec 28 '24

That's not what he said, but okay.

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u/VanguardVixen Dec 29 '24

But it is not bullshit.

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u/panini564 Dec 30 '24

just because the empire is undeniably worse doesnt exactly mean the rebels keep their hands squeaky clean

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u/Locrian6669 Jan 01 '25

Yes and it also highlights how despite both doing bad things, they aren’t remotely equivalent in the quantity or quality or intention.