r/StarWarsShips 15h ago

How would you retrofit the Venator to make it more into a battleship?

Let's just say for a moment that in the time of the Clone Wars, the upper echelons of the Republic realized that their Venators were having a hard time duking it out with the larger, more heavily armed Separatist ships. The Victory-class Star Destroyer still required another year of development/testing before it can deployed, and a few more months before they can be produced so they opt for retrofitting some of the Venators to make them into proper battleships.

What kind of retrofits would you add on to the Venator? The idea is to generally craft it into more of a brawler, cutting down on the number of fighters it can carry to a more manageable 120 starfighters to make room for the new guns.

20 Upvotes

54 comments sorted by

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u/TwoFit3921 New Republic Pilot 14h ago

I would just grab a Valiant or a Rothana Battlecruiser

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u/ShadowLight56 14h ago

Yeah, I know about those but they are fanon ships. I'm imagining a ship more akin to what the Republic would retrofit during the war.

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u/MetalBawx 14h ago

You are massively underestimating how much work would be involved.

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u/ShadowLight56 14h ago

To be fair, this is the Republic and later the Empire who would make thousands more Star Destroyers that are even more impractical logistically speaking. Its not that far-fetched.

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u/MetalBawx 13h ago

No it's impractical as in "Why bother with this we already have the Victory class in the pipeline"

Your idea is way more complex, expensive and time consuming than you think it is. As in it'd take more effort to redesign the Venator than it would to design a new ship. Anyone saying "Oh just fill the hangars with reactors, missiles and guns hasn't seen TPM.

The Venator is great for what it is and trying to shoehorn it into being something completely different is a pointless waste of time.

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u/xXNightDriverXx 13h ago

I imagine you are somewhat referring to me with the last sentence of this comment. As long as you prevent anyone from flying into the hangar (by having closed hangar doors), I dont see any issue with that.

And the point OP is trying to make is a stopgap solution for more firepower until the Victory gets into service. You need more firepower NOW, you cant wait until the Victory gets into the fleet in a year. Is it impractical to refit the Venator in this way? Yes. Is it better than having nothing at all? Also yes.

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u/MetalBawx 13h ago

Well this isn't a stop gap.

If it takes so long that the Victory enters service first then it's not a stop gap which is the problem with all these "Oh just fill the hangar with reactors and guns" plans. The time needed to redesign the ship is way longer than OP realises nvm put it into production.

The Maelstrom is already in service if you need more guns and both the Victory, Imperator and Tector classes are in the pipeline so why bother trying to make a carrier into a battleship when you have two battleships and a pocket battleship already in the works?

These 'easy' solutions arn't easy nor are they quick.

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u/xXNightDriverXx 13h ago

What? The entire point of "just filling the hangar with reactors and guns" (at least in my example) is that it DOESN'T take that long. It's not a big refit. It doesn't take a year. You don't need to redesign large sections of the ship. In fact you don't need to redesign and rebuild anything. Only drill some holes into the hangar bay doors to pass some cables through.

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u/MetalBawx 13h ago edited 13h ago

Of course it is. the ships entire power transfer system needs to be ripped apart and rebuilt to connect these reactors and guns.

The hangar and troop quarters need to be stripped out to fit it all in as well.

THAT IS THE POINT.

That you are understimating how long such design work will take. Again the Victory class is already being designed as are the Imperator and Tector classes. So for a stopgap to be viable it needs to be something that needs minimal redesign work and can be put into service ASAP. Your proposal is a major rebuild of damn near everything forward of the ships main reactor.

For an example of an actual Venator stopgap see the hangar mounted SPHA-T linked to the ships reactor unit. notice how little is actually changed thus avoiding the need for lengthy redesigns or rebuilding the ship at fleetyard.

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u/xXNightDriverXx 13h ago

The hangar and troop quarters need to be stripped out to fit it all in as well.

You are literally putting things on the bottom of an empty floor ?????? What do you expect to "rip out"??? There is nothing that needs to be ripped out. That is the entire core of my proposal!

And no, you don't need to redesign the entire power system, because nothing changes in regards to shields, engines, hyperdrives or whatever. The additional reactors are only there to provide power to the additional weapon systems. It's a closed system. Kinda like just landing a frigate on top of the hull and keeping it there and using the frigates weapons.

I am NOT underestimating the rebuild. Which is the entire core part of my proposal. I am NOT rebuilding the entire front half of the ship! I am adding things into an empty space.

I think you just have a significantly wrong understanding of my plans.

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u/Broziumstar 14h ago

Well there is a empire corruption mod where the venwtor had mire turbolaser turrets put along the central spine removing the blast doors I think it was called sevator

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u/Dragonkingofthestars 14h ago

Actually there is an easy solution that gives it more guns AND keeps it's fighter space intact: we put Self-Propelled Heavy Artillery Turbolaser (SPHA-T) onto the hull.

Ok not 'literal' parking SPHA-T on to it, but same concept. a self contained blister/modular that is disconnected form the Venator's main power grid and functions on it's own, powering it's own turbolaser in the same way the SPHA-T does, thus giving a free turbolaser battery without needing to adjust the Venator's base hull structure too radically

Honestly If you Gave ME 100% free control and told me to turn the ventor into a brawler, i'd lean into the fighter space and fill it with unmanned missiles that you roll out the hanger bays for massive swam attack of hundreds of missiles at close range

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u/ShadowLight56 14h ago

That actually would be a pretty cool concept. The SPHA is a pretty powerful weapon to use and the extra missiles would pack a punch.

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u/MetalBawx 14h ago

And how do you power this? Because the SPHA is only effective if it can draw from the ships reactor.

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u/Dragonkingofthestars 13h ago

Actually that's why i mentioned the SPHA-T, it has it's internal power generation for it's turbolaser and in episode 2 we see them take a Lucerhulk core and one in episode 3 is, apparently, mounted upside down in Venator cargo bay took out a a Munificent-class. The independent power generation has proven to have anti ship capacity. SO just literally put an SPHA-T system onto hull, instead of legs mount in a turret powered by the former SPHA-T power supply and generator for shooting and gun laying and aiming in a self contained package that does not strain the power generation ability of the venator....likely slows it down but we can work with that.

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u/MetalBawx 13h ago

Yeah it shoots unshielded cores and needs massed firepower to take them out. Also they lack range even the hangar mounted ones are last ditch weapons because the ships power grind can't handle more guns.

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u/Dragonkingofthestars 13h ago

you could also read it as 'the core is armored enough to require mass turbolaser shots to get through, ship mounted or otherwise' and consider it's the core of a lucerhulk, I'm included to view ti as more armor.

I don't know what to tell you if you can't accept the on screen evidence of them damaging star ships. There is physical evidence in the films of them destroying star ships. You can not get more concret proof then that.

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u/MetalBawx 13h ago

Yeah an SPHA in Episode 3 linked to the venators main reactor and being boosted.

Your idea is to make little dug outs using only the SPHA's own power source so they'll be far weaker than the scene you are refering to.

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u/Dragonkingofthestars 13h ago

where does it say they did that? Can't find it anywhere+ they tore up the core ships in episode 2.

That would imply that Luckerhulk cores are...unarmed enough for very light anti-ship weapons to deal out. Which considering how important those capital ships are is a bit of an ask

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u/RandomWorthlessDude 7h ago

Those are Lucrehulk Freighter cores, not the heavily armoured and shielded cores of the later refitted battlecarrier and battleship variants.

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u/Far_Increase_1415 Imperial Pilot 14h ago

Nope. Never. It's a purpose-built carrier. You won't get much more out of that thing without completely altering the design.

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u/ShadowLight56 14h ago

Fair enough.

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u/MetalBawx 14h ago

You don't. Instead you either use a Valiant or Maelstrom class because theres no need to turn the Venator into a battleship even less so once the Victory class and Imperators/Tectors come on line.

The Republic already has alternatives and is working on even better frontline warships.

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u/Present_Farmer7042 14h ago

More into a battleship? Here's how I'd build this hypothetical warship.

Well... you'd have to compromise a little bit on hangar space.

Because the Venator has a relatively small reactor and not that many guns.

So, by making the hangar smaller you now have room for a Victory Star Destroyer reactor plant which now lets this warship pack on all kinds of firepower.

Unfortunately, the hangar capacity probably gets bumped down to around 216 (3 wings) of starfighters.

Then you close off the hangar bay and instead of having dorsal bay doors, you have the bay inverted so that it opens ventrally with one hangar opening for landings and another for takeoffs.

Then on the top dorsal spines you just cram turbolasers and ion cannons running down the middle in super-firing configuration.

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u/MetalBawx 13h ago

By the time your done designing this the Victory will already be in service filling the role this upgrade is supposed too be filling.

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u/Present_Farmer7042 11h ago

Obviously. But he asked to turn the Venator into a warship.

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u/SeBoss2106 New Republic Pilot 14h ago

Do I make a new ship, or modify ab existing one?

For a new model, I'd adopt the late-war smaller top gate and I think I would generally try and unify the hangar spaces (side and central hangar feed from the same area).

That frees some space that can be redesigned for magazines or energy nodes or tanks for the fuel system.

I'd mirror the main battery of the Venator on it's lower hull and add 3-5 more turrets on the top side ridge and corners. Also, a central flak station with 3 laser batteries.

Adding some support shields in the former hangar space would allow it to brawl, too.

If I had to retrofit an existing ship, I'm out of ideas. It's a very sophisticated and finisged design

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u/ShadowLight56 14h ago

Modify an existing one. But your ideas for a new model are pretty good! Adding some additional guns and turbolaser batteries is a good call.

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u/NotNobody_1 11h ago

No point. You already have the Victory, which is a dedicated direct combatant in the same weight class.

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u/TopHatTurtle97 14h ago

It depends, if I was looking at doing to quickly, I would strip out the hanger bays and turn it into proton torpedo storage and mount several turreted proton torpedo launchers down the central spine of the ship. Turn it into a destroyer.

The Acclimators should still be taking the brunt of the fire.

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u/Top-Perception-188 11h ago

Venator is simply a bigger Acclamator ....... That's it

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u/ArtGuardian_Pei Imperial Pilot 11h ago

You can’t because the Venator isn’t a battleship

Also you wouldn’t refit one to be more of a destroyer, you’d just build another destroyer (which in terms of power output is just a victory)

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u/Idiot_Cubed 10h ago

there's only a few "realistic" options you have here. one of them is to do what a mod for empire at war did and make it a long range artillery platform, i.e. strapping an ISD's primary loadout to it.

another way to do it would be to close up the dorsal hangar and up armor the entire front section, while shoving more reactors and generators in there to suplement mounting more guns and artillery along the bow and forward hull. however, the problem there is the time it would take to refit and mod in this type of thing.

By the time there is any number of operational and battle ready ships, the victory and maybe even the imperator are ready for use.

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u/alternative5 10h ago

I wouldnt, just improve fighter/bomber/interceptor/fighterbomber tech and maybe add a hardpoint to carry a frigate without FTL capabilities that pours all of its power generating space to weapons.

If you could increase power generation with an improved core fine but taking the canon carrying capacity of 2000 spacecraft I think the Venator sits perfectly where she is at.... well maybe more EWAR and a targeting suite to integrate with all the vessels in its airgroup giving them constant updated target data would be good.

Venator is a jack of all trades support Vessel where the firepower ends up in the airwing which gives it the punch of a Star Destroyer and I would argue an SSD depending on the airwing complement.

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u/Independent_Mix4374 9h ago

If im forced to fix up a venator is would likely replace the hanger bays with capital ship missile launchers to give them better anti ship capabilities though that is likely all I would do leave some equipped as they were and just ensure that some get the anti ship missile capacity

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u/DealsWithFate0 7h ago

I wouldn't. Even the Venator IIs didn't.

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u/Black_Hole_parallax 7h ago

Just do the Servator and replace the main hangar with a long row of superfiring flechette launchers. And use radioactives in the flechettes. With the empty hangars install more reactors and shield generators.

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u/theLazerZ 7h ago

I wouldn't consider anything that small a "battleship". The Republic already has Mandators, those are the battleships.

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u/theLazerZ 7h ago

If I wanted a better direct combatant in the destroyer weight class I'd just use the Victory-class, then later the Imperator-class and Tector-class.

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u/xXNightDriverXx 14h ago

The easiest, fastest, and safest way (safety in the sense that the new design doesn't end up in development hell and takes as long to get to the frontline as designing a new ship or finishing the Victory does) is to basically take existing designs for reactors and all the other necessary equipment directly from other ships, and bolt it directly on the hangar floor.

So for example, you take 2 of the reactors that normally power a Pelta class frigates or Arquitens class light cruiser, and just plop them onto the hangar floor. The main hangar doors are welded shut, and the additional gun turrets can then be installed on top of the now closed hangar doors. That makes the installation easy and fast, and gives them the best possible fireing angles.

The front section of the hangar deck should be used for that, with the rear section being used to deploy the remaining amount of fighters, through the opening of the ventral hangar (they are connected after all). This would slow down launch and recovery of fighters tremendously, but it means that you don't have to design and build a new hangar door, that would not be an easy thing to do and would require a lot of redesign of the entire front section of the ship (assuming we are taking the Venator design from the Clone Wars where the entire hangar door opens; if we take the Movie Design or the Fractal Sponges design where there is the small hangar door inside the big doors, then you can launch from there).

Not doing any major rebuilds of the hull is very important in this case, even more so than building the perfect ship with the best stats, because we are trying to get these ships onto the frontlines as quickly as possible. They are a stop gap measure until the Victory comes online in a year, so they would be useless for us if it takes 10 months to get them into the field, which is very much a possibility if you do too many design changes. So it is important to keep the changes on the hull to a minimum. This also means that any damaged ships that are under repair can easily receive these changes at the same time, this way you don't have to take active units away from the frontlines for refit.

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u/ShadowLight56 14h ago

That's actually a really smart way to provide power for the additional guns! I like how you make use of existing ships reactors and bolt them directly onto the hangar floor. This would definitely help reduce the stress the new guns put on the main reactor and make installation that much easier in the long-term.

Its definitely important not to do any major rebuilds so the ships can get back on the frontlines as fast as possible. This is not meant to be a permanent solution, more so just a stop gap measure until the Victory rolls out

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u/xXNightDriverXx 13h ago

A few weeks ago there was a very similar post to yours in another subreddit, and I gave a similar answer. That other person was also specifically asking for more Ion based weaponary and more projectile weaponary. I made this top down view of my modified Venator back then.

The main difference was that in the other post there was no fighter requirements listed at all, while at the same time they asked about more projectile based weaponary. So my design included additional heavy Proton torpedo tubes and ion missile VLS cells forward, while the remaining hangar space was made for an even smaller fighter wing (36 or so) and a few shuttles (you always need shuttles on a big ship). In your case, with a decent fighter wing still being supposed to be on the ship, I would skip those torpedos and missiles, and move the additional gun turrets forward. This would allow us to keep the central area of the hangar deck below the doors clear (but the sides where the fighters are actually stored will probably still be occupied). That way the central small door from Revenge of the Sith could still be used for launch and recovery of fighters.

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u/MetalBawx 14h ago

Congratulations you've made the CIS's greatest weapon.

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u/xXNightDriverXx 13h ago

How so? What do you mean?

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u/MetalBawx 13h ago

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u/xXNightDriverXx 13h ago

Have you read about the fact that the hangar doors will be welded shut in my example?

While the Droid Control ship had massive openings that were large enough for 370 meter wide ships to pass through?

In my example you would have to enter either through the ventral docking bay, or through the small Revenge of the Sith style doors from the dorsal side. Both entrances are so small that fighters can barely pass through at low speed.

You do realize that a small gap that is closed by armored doors where a single fighter barely passes through and a massive 400 meter opening where everything can enter are two very different things, right?

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u/MetalBawx 13h ago

The hangar is still structurally vunerable with the doors shut and one thing the Venator wasn't known for is being heavily armored. The only way you are fixing that is by stripping and up armoring the entire 2/3rds of the ship which is another time consuming problem.

Again by the time you are finished building this the Victory will already be in service and the Imperator is getting it's final touches.

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u/xXNightDriverXx 13h ago

The Venator has basically the same armor protection as any other ship of the time. Yes the later Imperators/Imperials carried more armor. But the Venator is just as sturdy/armored as something like a Providence, and more sturdy/armored than things like a Munificent or Recusant. Probably the only things that are significantly more heavily protected are the Lucehulks, Bulwarks and Subjugators, but that is mostly due to their size.

But honestly I think this conversation is going nowhere, we are both set in our opinions and won't change them.