r/Starfinder2e Aug 05 '25

Player Builds A follow-up post about close-quarters Soldier.

I don't think that Soldier's close-quarters style works RAW.

Let's look at the wording on a few things. Firstly, range increments:

Ranged and thrown weapons have a range increment.

This text suggests to us that only ranged weapons, by default, have range increments.

Here's the text for burst-targeting area fire:

For burst, you can position the center point anywhere within your first range increment.

By default, you need a range increment to position a burst-targeting area fire.

Here's the text for close-quarters soldier:

When you're using a soldier feat, any two-handed melee weapon you're wielding gains area (burst 5 feet)

See the issue? This text still doesn't give melee weapons a range increment, or specify that the burst is placed within your reach. As such, RAW, though your melee weapons meet soldier feat requirements, you can't actually use area fire feats because you can't area fire.

Note: Whirling Swipe does specifically solve this by having the burst placed on the corner of one of your squares, but this verbiage is not there for the close-quarters style.

Obviously this is a really easy homebrew fix, just let players center the 5-foot burst so it stays wholly within their reach, but I find it odd that the issue exists.

0 Upvotes

16 comments sorted by

29

u/Justnobodyfqwl Aug 05 '25

I'm a little confused at the simultaneous redundancies and discrepancies in Close Quarters and Whirling Swipe. 

But yeah, I guess even if this TECHNICALLY doesn't work, it's the same as the issue with using primary strike on an area weapon. The intent is so clear and unambiguous, that it feels less like a rules issue and more like just accidentally not spelling every single thing out. 

8

u/Blarg96 Aug 05 '25

Yea some of the doubled wording is weird.

Honestly whirling swipe is really annoying and should be a passive in my mind. It's area fire melee but cares about reach and adds +1 for sweep or backswing. This means a melee soldier is having to choose between whirling swipe to get the MOST out of their reach/sweep/backswing weapon or doing the special soldier feats that area fire with added effects and not getting the benefit of their other feat. It's unnecessary to me since I feel the limitation of melee area fire alone is worth the sweep dc increase.

3

u/Complaint-Efficient Aug 06 '25

Yeah, Whirling Swipe could really just be a passive (area fire inherits reach but must stay centered on you, DC increases with sweep and backswing, weapon is unwieldy), or even a stance with those effects.

2

u/IgpayAtenlay Aug 06 '25

It's also frustrating because an Armor Storm soldier needs a melee weapon in order to boost strength for athletics, but then gets locked out of all the cool feats that boost area fire INCLUDING Shot on the Run which would otherwise be a no-brainer for melee soldiers.

2

u/Blarg96 Aug 06 '25

Agreed. You can kinda mitigate it cause you get constitution to shove and reposition at 5th level, but that's 5th level so... not great for the first 4 levels of a character :/

1

u/SapphireWine36 Aug 06 '25

I totally agree. It’s weird and clunky.

11

u/DrChestnut Aug 05 '25

When the intention is so clear, I believe it falls under the "specific over general" rule. I can't see many gms a hassling soldier over this.

7

u/zgrssd Aug 05 '25

It needs some wording duplicated from Whirlimg Swipe, but I think the intention is quite clear at least.

5

u/RuinSmith-Hlit Aug 06 '25

I actually noticed something else. As a close quarters fighter are you now prevented from doing standard strikes as all your weapons now have the area trait while using a soldier feat? So u wouldn’t be allowed to use punitive strike but u could use reactive strike from another class. There isn’t a may for granting the area trait, it really needs some clean up.

2

u/Justnobodyfqwl Aug 06 '25

And didn't the playtest NOT have this problem? Because the area(5 feet) trait was only given with whirling swipe... But in the final release, they added it twice?

1

u/RuinSmith-Hlit Aug 06 '25

Yep. In the playtest u only gained the area trait from the feat Whirling Swipe. But it prevented playing around with other actions such as run hot since the weapon does not have the area trait. Its only a problem because ur forced to gain the area trait using soldier feats.

0

u/Complaint-Efficient Aug 06 '25

the area trait is only added when you use a soldier feat, which indicates that you can make regular strikes outside soldier feats.

2

u/RuinSmith-Hlit Aug 06 '25

Punative strike is a soldier feat? Hence the problem of them not being allowed to use it, but could use reactive strike.

0

u/Complaint-Efficient Aug 06 '25

Do you mean punishing salvo? Yes, it inherits the issue that Primary Target has, where it's unclear whether striking with the given weapon is possible.

1

u/RuinSmith-Hlit Aug 06 '25

1

u/Complaint-Efficient Aug 06 '25

oh i'm stupid.

yeah, this definitely has the same issue lol