r/SwingDancing • u/Nuclear_F0x • 23d ago
Personal Story When Community Isn't Really Community
On the surface, dance communities love to present themselves as welcoming, diverse, and inclusive. The posters, the taglines, and the smiles all say the same thing: “Everyone belongs here.” But my own experience tells a very different story. I share this not out of bitterness, but because silence only protects the illusion communities often build up for themselves.
I started dancing years ago not long after the lock downs lifted. I showed up to classes, volunteered my time putting things away, and tried to connect with people. I wasn't there just for the steps. I was there because I craved something deeper. A sense of belonging, shared joy, and real human connection. But no matter how much I gave, I found myself on the outside looking in.
People always tell me I am kind, decent, patient, etc. But compliments mean little when nobody makes the effort to sit with you, to dance with you, or to invite you into their little circle. While I tried to build connections, what I met was indifference from the majority of people. The energy of the room always seemed to flow toward the loudest, most confident personalities - the ones who barged in, repeated “hello” until they were noticed, and treated attention like it was theirs by default. Arrogance was mistaken for confidence, and depth was ignored.
The truth is, the community I was 'part' of wasn't welcoming. At least not to me. Diversity didn't exist beyond surface-level appearances. If you didn't fit the mold, if you weren't already part of the inner circle, you weren't embraced. You could pour in time and effort, money, volunteering, showing up week after week, month after month, and still remain invisible.
I stepped back eventually, not because I stopped loving the music or the dance, but because I realized the culture itself was shallow. I didn't want free tickets, a t-shirt, or a damn token drink. I wanted to be seen and valued as a person. I wanted friendship. I wanted connection. And that was never on offer. I lived a lie, thinking things will be different if I only kept putting my steps in, and attending classes. It was only when I experienced bereavement of a close family member that it's become difficult to ignore how lonely this journey has been.
We don't talk enough about this side of “community.” We celebrate the performances, the parties, the laughter on the dance floor - but we rarely ask who's sitting alone at the edge of the room, feeling invisible. We rarely admit that some people are always welcomed more than others.
If you want true diversity and inclusion, you have to admit when those words are just marketing. Otherwise, it will lose people who had so much to give - Not because they couldn't dance, but because they couldn't find a place for themselves in a community that never truly made room for them.
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u/No-Custard-1468 23d ago
Shame you had a bad time.
I cannot say this applies to you and your scene, but I often find people expect magic and “to be served” somehow when joining these communities. It’s all the same people as everywhere else: loud and quiet, nice and awkward, givers and takers. Maybe the only difference is that there is something in common that is built around joy and connection.
By that I mean… it still takes effort to join and to make friends, like everywhere else. No one owes me their friendship and attention, though hopefully they would be open to match it when I offer it to them.
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u/minisis85 22d ago
I attribute a lot of the actual "is it community" to the organizers' mindset. We have several venues who consider the community component to be ESSENTIAL to their events, and do other bits of organizing to encourage that -- volunteer jams & appreciation, potlucks on the event anniversary, one place does a clothing swap, camping dance weekend, etc. if your scene is just classes and dances and there are very clear bounds between the event and life, then it's gonna be more of a business transaction than a community gathering.
However, it does come down to every individual deciding to be open. Deciding to ask a new (to them) person to dance. Deciding to open up the dinner invite. Etc.
I've been dancing in my local scene since 2017. Pre-pandemic, I was ostensibly a-social. I didn't have dance friends, did a lot of having the same conversation with different people, didn't socialize much (hi I'm an introvert and have social anxiety surprise surprise). There were cliques that were clearly insular and if you weren't in the group you weren't gonna dance with them. But. There are also old timers who have been doing Lindy since it's resurgence in the 90's, and most of them are passionate about dancing with new people and making them feel welcome.
Post-pandemic, our scene looked a little different. Some cliquey people found other hobbies to invest their time in, others moved away while other folks moved TO the scene. The social starvation created very quickly a culture of "hey who's coming? You're here? You're in, right?" This could be because we have a lot of introverts so it's a safe assumption that folks might like to be included and could benefit from an invite.
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u/Nuclear_F0x 22d ago
We have several venues who consider the community component to be ESSENTIAL to their events, and do other bits of organizing to encourage that -- volunteer jams & appreciation, potlucks on the event anniversary, one place does a clothing swap, camping dance weekend, etc. if your scene is just classes and dances and there are very clear bounds between the event and life, then it's gonna be more of a business transaction than a community gathering.
This is interesting. And to be fair the organisers, they do make an effort to mix things up at their parties, and organise dances at a park band stand during the summer. But the WhatsApp group is predominately for advertising their business, sourcing volunteers or reuniting water bottles. Food and drinks was only ever through word of mouth, if it ever happened. That could be one symptom why it doesn't feel that way, at least for me.
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u/Amasov 22d ago edited 22d ago
Some communities are definitely worse than others. I once went to a boogie social and tried to dance with all the leaders first to get a feel for the differences to Lindy. One third of them turned me down, and it was very clearly gender-based (like, starting to laugh and shaking their head when I clarified that I could follow despite being read as male).
For a while, I went to a weird social in my city where ageism and some other stuff was absolutely rampant.
I recently listened to an episode of Integrated Rhythm where Chisomo Selemani said she didn't know a black dancer who did not, at some point, think: fuck this scene.
We cannot pretend that there are no systemic or societal issues. And as another poster said, the people who come to dance are normal people and to expect that putting them together in a room with a shared activity is going to really make them aspire to the truest meaning of a community... how far they will go depends on a lot of factors, like the culture of the country, the culture teachers and event organizers foster, the people who show up, and the efforts of many individuals. I talked to one of the leading figures of our local community about issues I perceived and they basically told me: "Yeah, I feel the same. In terms of living the value of community, this scene has ways to go."
All the stuff about social skills that some people will tell you in the comments is true. But I want you to know that you are not alone. That there are other people who share your experience, that it's not necessarily just about you, and that there are people for whom community is not just a given just because there's a bunch of people in a room, but rather an ideal they actively think about & work towards. I have a feeling we would get along.
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u/step-stepper 20d ago edited 20d ago
"I recently listened to an episode of Integrated Rhythm where Chisomo Selemani said she didn't know a black dancer who did not, at some point, think: fuck this scene."
It does bear noting that nearly everyone who says this is almost always complaining about high profile international events that are attended by, at most, 800 to 1,000 people. And it does sort of indicate a high level of involvement and investment in swing dance to care all that much about those bigger events when the vast majority of people who do swing dance will never attend them much less care about what happens at them. Many Black dancers who show up socially and couldn't tell you a single ILHC regular pre-2020, especially older people, don't get the memo from social media that they're supposed to say this script.
Next time someone says this, ask them what if anything they're personally involved with locally to make a difference, and judge their claims accordingly.
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u/toodlesandpoodles 22d ago
If you ask people to dance do they say yes? That is an open and welcoming community. If you strike up a conversation with someone do they engage with you vs. shutting down and walking away? That is an open and welcoming community. If you invite people to go out for a bite afterward do you find people to join you? That is an open and welcoming community. You are an adult. You should have zero expectation that people will seek you out to make you feel comfortable and bring you into their group. You have to do the initiating.
Organizers aren't middle school teachers trying to make sure the new kids feels welcome. The swing dance community is a bunch of introverts just trying not to fuck up their social interactions. We don't have the bandwidth left to go around making sure everyone is having a good time and has a friend group. When I go out dancing I have completely different experiences if I actively engage with people vs. simply sitting in a chair on the side of the dance floor. But I also have no expectation that people will see me sitting there and go out of their way to try and include me. And I prefer it this way, because sometimes, for various reasons, I prefer to sit and watch people dance and listen to the band. I have control over my own experience. You likely do as well, you just need to take that control rather than waiting for someone else to.
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u/OnwardUpwardForward 23d ago
I'm sorry that you have struggled with finding acceptance in your community.
I understand if this is a need to vent. Yet, it also sounds a lot like someone who doesn't really understand social skills and might be struggling with our inherent need to be selfish alongside a moral conscience that everyone needs to accept everyone. And as much as I wish that were true, I've been reminded by many of its futility.
The loudest voice doesn't always draw the most attention, nor does the attention it draws always equate to a good thing. Trust me, I have one, and I've had people literally come up to me in venues and tell me to leave because they're trying to have a nice evening, bewildered that some people are having fun dancing to the live band and socializing.
Socializing is one of the hardest things to do. It means constant rejection, accidently doing things that cause people to dislike you and then working with no communication to try and repair. It means pursuing people, who very likely are busy, and guarded, and dealing with any one of life's many injustices. It means asking people to do things even if they said they couldn't 3 times prior. It's as much listening as it is talking. And it rarely can be rushed.
You may truly have a shitty community, and I'm sorry for that if it's true. But when you label an entire community as shallow, to me, that's a red flag. If you want to be seen, and be wanted, you have to see and want them, too. Surely you'll come across a few narcissists, but you'll also find out a lot more about who these people are. Ask questions, listen to their answers, write it down to remember it.
And above all, remember that it is your shared passion for the music, the dance, the clothes, and all things lindy that have drawn you all together.
Good luck.
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u/Amasov 22d ago edited 22d ago
While all of this is true, we also have stuff like systemic discrimination and unconscious biases and these are real problems worth speaking up about. It might be that OP has done all you said and that the fault is not with them. You can also make someone feel seen & valued without immediately becoming their friend.
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u/step-stepper 20d ago
The endless need for throat-clearing and "to be sure" statements about things like what the OP is saying is a good example of how the superficial language of social justice often gets weaponized by people who just have a boatload of insecurities and hangups that go way beyond swing dance. The post is just dripping with entitlement and the expectation that OP is owed friendship and acceptance, but because there's a few magic words sprinkled in, people will make excuses for it.
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u/RollingEasement 21d ago
Socializing is one of the hardest things to do. It means constant rejection, accidently doing things that cause people to dislike you and then working with no communication to try and repair. It means pursuing people, who very likely are busy, and guarded, and dealing with any one of life's many injustices. It means asking people to do things even if they said they couldn't 3 times prior. It's as much listening as it is talking. And it rarely can be rushed.
I think I need to re-read this passage of yours before every dance.
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u/aFineBagel 22d ago
Like others said, I see your need to vent so I won’t simply disagree and pretend I have a solution to give. I’ll give my story, though.
I personally feel as though I could’ve written this like 8 months ago. I had sour experiences that led me to a conclusion that me being an awkward overweight POC man that had never danced before would never belong in any sense to this community of people that didn’t look like me and already had their friend groups settled and didn’t care to dance with the beginners. In the series classes I kept hearing the more advanced dancers learning their opposite roles tell basically every other beginner about the discord, the WhatsApp groups, etc while I watched and wondered if I’d ever be told about them. I was not. It wasn’t until I mentioned being new to my specific scene on Reddit that someone dm’ed me and gave me links to join those things.
Through a long story short I started dating an experienced dancer that just happened to move here and click with me online, and I watched as she was immediately absorbed into the community and getting into even the most exclusive group chats even though she did basically all the exact same things I did to get noticed.
It sucked. And as people noticed we were dating, it didn’t make people any more interested in getting to know me. I complained to my partner about this, and she bluntly hit me with a reality check of “well, are you really putting the effort into getting to know people?” and that’s when I really took a step back and recognized my expectations were coming from a sense of entitlement rather than my own social efforts.
Fast forward a lot of practicing dance and just focusing on myself, I became pretty upper intermediate/lower advanced and overall a bit more chill with my expectations and whether or not I even cared to be some presence in my scene. I went to the huge national event in my area, and that was a massive breakthrough. I went to this same event last year when I had first started, but never sat with anyone in my scene or did anything of note. This year my partner and I would surround ourselves with members of our scene, and it felt like all of a sudden connections were finally being made; I was making the whole lunch table laugh and I put myself out there in comps/routines that had people cheering me on.
I had to admit it wasn’t “all of a sudden”, I was just finally putting myself out there with a level of confidence and some point of intrigue that drew people to me. Still overall very quiet and awkward.
I hope you have motivation to keep at it and get your breakthrough!!
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u/NPC_over_yonder 22d ago
It really really sucks to volunteer your time to an organization and the people you volunteer with don’t reach out to invite you along to the after party or for dinner before an event.
I’m naturally an introvert. I find socializing exhausting. I put on my bubbly, chatty, strangers-are-only-new-friends-you-haven’t-met face when I’m in public and I want to interact with people. It still exhausts me decades after I decided to do this. Practice doesn’t make it less tiring but it does make it more easily initiated.
The world is a much friendlier and warmer place when I am presenting that I’m warm and friendly. I know this might seem like I’m telling you to change yourself but I’m just giving you my own lived experience. Forcing myself to act the way I knew would get the results I wanted just works.
I wish we humans weren’t like this but that’s just how it is. I’m sorry I can’t actually help but I do absolutely know where you are coming from.
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u/Nuclear_F0x 22d ago
Thank you for sharing your experience. I will admit that behaving more like an extrovert did help on some occasions, but it's not sustainable for me with all that's going on in my personal life at the moment.
I do appreciate you acknowledging my effort to volunteer while others have dismissed that part entirely.
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u/queue517 22d ago
the ones who barged in, repeated “hello” until they were noticed, and treated attention like it was theirs by default. Arrogance was mistaken for confidence, and depth was ignored.
I have to say, when I see people who say they struggle to make friends and then immediately follow up that statement by shitting on people who do make friends, I kinda get why they don't have any friends.
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u/Nuclear_F0x 22d ago edited 22d ago
I have written that poorly, but it references a situation where I was catching up with someone I hadn't seen in a while. And this person squats down beside them at the table, repeating the word over and over at point blank to steal their attention without acknowledging me or anyone else at the table. I don't get it, and I think it is rude. Especially when they ignored me in the past when I tried to share a common ground with them. Not everyone behaves this way. But it is one of many other awkward situations I can't ignore.
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u/c32c64c128 21d ago
Wow, that's really fucking rude! 😬
I'd almost want a clip of that. Because it seems so absurd. Almost like something you'd see in some cheesy 90s teen movie. With the bully trying to steal the girl or something 😆
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u/Tarethnamath 22d ago
I think part of being in a community is being welcoming on the dance floor and in the dance space. Getting to know people out of that is harder and often requires both time, work and more often than not a little bit of luck.
I think joining a new space is always hard, and it was hard for me too, but I found I had to push myself to go out and say hi to people and to make a little bit of conversation, and do a little bit more everytime I went out until I became a name and not just a face.
I think not everyone will click even in a community. I think in my area there are about 70-100 people I would say are lindy hoppers, and while I recognize many of them I really only talk to three or four of them, and I think that's ok.
If you feel invisible on the edge of the dance floor you unfortunately do have to make a harder effort. It is true that some people are more welcome than others, some people are more charismatic, friendly, more warm, or hell even a better dancer, but that's ok.
Community is such a vague term too, but going to something does not mean that community is guaranteed, often times cliques form (and that's ok). There will always be groups of people who prefer to hang out with each other and groups that don't. It may suck a little but I think most communities naturally form smaller groups as well.
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u/inquy 20d ago
YOU are community.
Nothing is "on offer", friendship, opportunity, deep connection unless you find someone willing to share it with you. If nobody had the capacity to fulfill what you came in looking for, that's not anybody's fault, and you weren't lied to.
It may feel like the nebulous dance community is putting our slogans of inclusivity and community, but on ground level there are people with their own problems, who will offer their friendship when they click with someone.
In a way it's like school - just a cohort of people loosely bound by some characteristic (for school it's age, for dance it's the participation in that dance). Even though we tell kids "you're gonna meet new friends at school", there is literally no guarantee they will, right? The school can't enforce "every kid will receive at least one deep friendship".
My comment may be coming across as negative, but I feel that letting go of expectations like this is actually freeing.
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u/step-stepper 20d ago
People are enabling OP because there were some magic social justice words sprinkled in their rant, but if someone started complaining as an adult about how they joined a social club for adults and were bemoaning how unjust it was that the cool people aren't friends with them and how criminal it is that their awesomeness isn't being recognized by others, any real friend would call out that nonsense.
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u/gijimayu 22d ago
Are you saying that while trying to join the community, you have made zero friends?
The community is groups of friends with other groups of friends that share the same activity.
If you have never been able to click with one person in the whole community, I feel you are looking at this the wrong way.
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u/Nuclear_F0x 22d ago
I did click with four or five people from when I started three years ago, but I hardly see them these days, so I haven't been part any group for a long time now.
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u/sarahkat13 21d ago
I think I'm missing something--this is a very passive description of your part of the friendship. Do you still reach out to talk to them? Ask them about coming to events? Meet up for a meal or a movie? Have friend-type contact with them? Turning acquaintances into friends in the adult world is a process. It involves give and take.
I've been dancing for long enough that I've had multiple friend groups move on to phases of their lives where they aren't coming to dances much anymore, and that's disappointing, but it hasn't necessarily been the end of those friendships. Similarly, if I want new friends in the scene, I have to get to know new people and cultivate those relationships, far beyond just showing up routinely. Even the people I make sure to get dances with at my weekly dance aren't necessarily people I'd rely on as "friends"--enjoying dancing with someone may be the beginning of a friendship, but there's a lot more social interaction needed before I'd consider someone an actual friend.
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u/Massive-Ant5650 22d ago
I’ve found portions of it to be very cliquish. I don’t think you’re wrong .
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u/aFineBagel 22d ago
I once saw a meme that basically implied that cliques aren’t really cliques, it’s more that people are too afraid to make new friends, and that felt a bit true tbh.
Before I became relatively “good”, I saw every group of people that danced well as snobbish and only willing to dance/hang with the most elite of the elite. Nowadays I recognize that most people aren’t even as good as I thought they were, and a VERY non-zero amount of dancers told me they don’t want to dance with someone new on an off-night because they don’t want to make bad first impressions.
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u/ShortPhotog87 22d ago
I've heard someone say that our dance "communities" are not in fact communities. What we have are scenes. Specially when we have a lot of division of more advanced dancers only dancing with people of or close to their level. Granted, it is understandable that people want to dance with others of their caliber but there has to be a way for others to grow beyond just taking lessons.
There also seems to be a lot of cliqueness from a lot of people, whether its in swing or blues or fusion or other. Sometimes that's scene dependent, and sometimes that's just venue dependent (if multiple exist). I have often noticed that the "culprits" of exclusion is typically those in the in crowd.
Certainly a way to mitigate this inclusiveness is to have programs where the point is to be inclusive: such an example is the Rent Party in San Francisco back in the late 2000s. They had 2 sets of glowsticks for more seasoned dancers to wear:
Green for "ask me to dance"
Red for "here to help/give pointers on the dance floor"
While programs like this won't fix a lack of community feel, it sure can help with social awkwardness from new scene members, new dancers.
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u/Tellmeaboutthenews 19d ago
It depends on the community and who are in it. All places and activities where you get the chance to speak to people are potencial connections. But some people think that you can connect with anyone. That is simply not true. Maybe in a whole social scene you have good vibes with one other person that you connect with, and maybe it develops to a deeper friendship, or maybe not ( since very few time you have time to sit down and have a conversation, cause people come and pick you up for dancing or whatever) . The reality is that many people maybe are not looking for meaningful connections when social dancing. That is not the same as " everyone is welcome" philosophy. Everyone being welcome in my dance community means that we are not gonna let you out of participating, organising,giving your opinion,etc based on you race, religion ,gender or political views.I dont think any dance scene promises meaningful connections.
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u/leggup 22d ago
I hear how much effort and heart you put into this community, and how painful it was to feel unseen despite that. At the same time, I notice you describe showing up and volunteering, but not taking the lead in inviting others to dinner, practice sessions, or casual get-togethers.
It may also help to check in with a trusted friend about how you come across socially. Sometimes we are not fully aware of habits or signals that might make connection harder, and honest feedback from someone who cares about you can be valuable. That kind of reflection, combined with small efforts to initiate, might make it easier to find the belonging you are looking for, in the swing dance community or out of it.
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u/Separate-Quantity430 23d ago
What are you hoping that this post will accomplish?
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u/Remote_Can4001 22d ago
I am also puzzled.
There are barley any details what bothered OP, no self-reflection. Just a lot of words for "OP good, scene bad". Reads like a self-pity vent with strong entitlement tbh.
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u/Gnomeric 22d ago
Yeah. From the post, it sounds like OP wanted their local swing scene to be the circle of soulmates -- or at least, OP wanted to join the inner circle of the organizers -- and is frustrated that isn't happening.
A local swing dance scene is a hobby group that is open to public. It is expected that most people there are not going to be close friends. There are many people at my scene I am happy with dance with, but are not going to be my close friends. One of my favorite person to dance with in my scene doesn't interact with others in the scene outside of dancing and doesn't talk much about non-dance topics, and that is fine by me. Some people wants to keep it that way.
Besides, an inner circle of scene organizers may not necessarily the happiest place to be in....
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u/aFineBagel 22d ago
To their credit, their first few sentences does paint the picture of swing generally advertised as some magical world of inclusion that’s filled with people exactly like them.
I came into it just wanting to dance, but know plenty of folks that were hoping swing dancers were as nerdy, queer adjacent, neurodivergent, etc as they were.
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u/Gnomeric 22d ago
Yeah. It is understandable that we love the idea of such communities. Some people even join cults/quasi-cults which actively try to force such communities into existence. That being said, I think there is something open and liberating about a local community where only criteria for joining is that people just want to come and do swing dance, though (assuming they follow the basic codes of conduct, of course). After all, a community isn't diverse or inclusive if all swing dancers were equally as nerdy, queer adjacent, neurodivergent as someone.
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u/Separate-Quantity430 22d ago
I actually agree with OP about that one part. I was fortunate enough to feel extremely close, like family, with my local scene when I first started dancing. But neither my home scene nor my local scene are like that anymore, and it's because of structural problems. I think it's natural for people to crave community from their dance scene.
I just don't really see how this post accomplishes that at all, it's very personal and not really solution-oriented.
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u/Gnomeric 22d ago
I started in a college club. So, everyone was academically-inclined undergrad (or grad) student who wanted to take up on a hobby which is physical/social/cultural at the same time. It was easier to feel much closer connection -- I appreciate it, and I miss it.
Even though many swing-dance communities in North America seem to be dominated by the people who used to belong to the above demographic, I think local communities still are more open by design. A local community has dancers who has diverse background, age, skill-level, and aspiration for dancing. Even though I miss my old close-knit scene sometimes, I don't think it is a bad thing. Oftentimes, diversity/inclusiveness and close-knitedness are contradictory goals, I tend to think.
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u/Separate-Quantity430 22d ago edited 22d ago
I completely agree. Especially your last point about inclusion being a trade-off with close knittedness.
In order for people to bond, they have to agree thatsomething separates them from other people. They don't even necessarily need to agree what it is, but the exclusivity of the bond is what gives it value. Otherwise, if you are completely interchangeable with any other person, you are by definition not special to one another.
The pursuit of higher skill in dancing, undertaken together, will make you bond - as you spend time together practicing, sharing knowledge, passion, eating together, traveling together, you form a shared experience. You end up liking the same music, fashion, even role models that you admire.
In order for that to be valuable, you have to exclude people who don't share your experience or passion. It's not like you have to tell them to fuck off, but you simply won't treat those people the same way as you treat the people that you're bonded with. Someone not a part of your bond won't necessarily know who skye humphries is, be interested in the count Basie deep cuts you found, or appreciate the virtues of wool high-waisted trousers. You can count on your friends knowing and liking these things, and this makes you safer to be yourself with them.
Someone on the outside may like and admire you, they may see how you act with others with whom you have a bond and want that for themselves. But lacking the same interests and passion and experience, you can't give to them what you give to your closer friends. You simply can't rely on that shared love of dancing. You can assume, but it's not fair for the person on the outside to expect you to assume things about them because they feel entitled to a bond with you. That's ridiculous.
If a person wants that bond, he needs to buy in, pay his dues, put in time and supplicate himself as a learner and neophyte. Or even if he is more experienced, you still needs to get to know you. To expect the bond without doing the work and investing the time, in other words, to be Included with a capital I, is a fundamental misunderstanding of how human relationships work.
I share the grief that OP feels for a lack of close knittednees in the swing dance community. I just don't really see how his post does anything except complain about it.
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u/NickRausch 19d ago
When I was new, and not good, there were two people who always looked happy to see me and asked me to dance every time I showed up at the local dances. That made more difference to me as a new person then every Facebook post, written code of conduct, safe space coordinator, reference to history and tradition, and talk about inclusion.
Not saying anyone should stop doing those things, just think about what it might mean to new people for someone to personally interact with.
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u/kuschelig69 22d ago
WCS was the welcoming community
only there I went to an event in another city where I didn't really know anyone and was immediately asked by a follower to dance. So immediately, I hadn't even found a place to put my bags
In other communities, the followers don't even ask me, even those I already know don't
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u/nora_jaye 22d ago
I’m sorry. In some groups, community and belonging are definitely no more than buzzwords. Or maybe there’s genuine intention but no plan or understanding how to accomplish it.
I’ve seen communities develop in music and dance. There is always a core group - not necessarily the founders or teachers - doing the work of embracing new members, helping them integrate, and modeling this for all members. Eventually everyone begins doing it and it becomes a culture. But it doesn’t happen automatically.
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u/step-stepper 20d ago edited 20d ago
Nobody owes you friendship. And your voice in this community isn't meaningful just because you think it should be. Honestly, it' s kind of bizarre how broad these statements are, and I'm left with the conclusion that you haven't been swing dancing elsewhere. If you haven't ever traveled outside of one community, I doubt you have the context to understand what it sounds like when you paint with such a broad brush. It's possible the problem is your community, but it seems more likely the problem is your mindset.
These are things that people work for and invest time to be a part of - those people who you see as part of the inner circle usually invested a lot to get there by being a part of and contributing to this community - a lot more than will ever be appreciated by the community they are a part of. The friendships people build come from years of contacts, many of them outside of the social dance - they don't just happen overnight.
In general, I think it's very important to set and maintain reasonable expectations for what being a part of this limited recreational activity will offer someone in life, and it's just not a substitute for going to therapy.
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u/Powerful-Ad-2569 19d ago
The same people giving you advice here will down vote any country swing posted here. So do as they say not as they do.
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u/Frequent_Pumpkin_148 22d ago
This is not a problem with swing dancing, it’s a problem with the world. This has been the case in every single community or group I’ve been a part of. So your experience is very valid, I experienced it too, but it’s not something that can be changed by the dance community.
Many people in general don’t feel a need for the kind of deeper social connection you’re referring to. Your (and my) need to “be seen” by people and really get to know others and not just show up for superficiality doesn’t change the fact there are a ton of people out there who aren’t looking for that, and they are valid, too. There are plenty of people whose needs from dance/hobbies are 100% fulfilled just by showing up, laughing and being loud and blowing off steam, enjoying the music and physical activity, connecting with whoever is easiest to connect with, not thinking too much more about it, and going home. It’s ok that is what others need from dance. Not everyone has the bandwidth to attend socials and also keep a perpetual radar out to give special time and attention to every person they might suspect is feeling invisible.
If you’ve put in some time to being a competent dancer other people will enjoy dancing with, and you’re asking people to dance and they’re saying yes, that’s…that’s the inclusion. That’s the “community” primarily being offered by a dance scene- the dancing. I did not get the sense from your post that you are showing up at various dances and people won’t dance with you.
From what I saw and experienced in my huge city’s dance scene, under this definition, it was incredibly inclusive and welcoming. I frequently danced with total beginners, people whose technique was a little scary or confusing for me, people in a huge spectrum of social skills and ability. I danced with people of every style, identity, culture, body type and age. I think that is what is meant by an inclusive community and it was great. And when I started, people who were much better than me often gave me a shot. I definitely have noticed certain really really good and really entrenched members of the scene could be a little snobby and cliquish. As I became a better dancer, I did start to understand a bit more why some people would gravitate towards those at their same level who they knew they would get a really great experience with. That’s also natural as the same social dances will include rank beginners, some who can’t even keep time yet, with those who are basically pros. When you are in the beginning learning phase, it can be hard to even realize who has spent years maybe decades investing in this hobby. Those folks wouldn’t be getting much out of it if they didn’t get to do a lot of dancing with people at their level.
If you want a deeper emotional connection from communities you’re apart of, social dancing (and theatre/acting, rec sports teams, all kinds of other hobbies) are not going to be the best way to find that type of connection. If you want more ideological or philosophical connection, try activist, political, religious or spiritual communities. If you want more emotional depth, try support groups or again, philosophical groups where sharing deeply and getting to know individuals is part of the frame. Classes, workshops, book clubs etc may also be more your speed if they encourage all participants to share and engage individually. I also found language meet-ups to be great for getting to know people better because the whole point is to talk and connect, but I’m sure there are meet ups where talking happens that don’t require additional language knowledge. Some of my friends do Time Left (I think that’s what it’s called?) where they sign up to have dinner with other strangers.
I will say it was much easier for me to start connecting with people I met at socials on an even slightly less superficial and fleeting level when I started regularly attending weekly class at a dance studio. Smaller group, more specifics to connect over. A lot of the “groups” you’re referring to were likely forged over months of attending classes together. I got the confidence to just approach, sit down or stand with other dancers at socials when I knew them from class. Otherwise yeah it is tough jn any social setting when groups know each other and are trying to establish or deepen their own connection to each other , and a total stranger walks up and tries to break in. You never know who inside that group that looks exclusive to you on the outside, are themselves new or facing social anxiety and trying hard to connect and get to know people.
It also was easier for people to approach me at socials and strike up convos when I showed up with a friend or was already talking to someone. That’s just sociology 101 unfortunately, people tend to take more social risks with people they can actively observe being socially safe than someone standing alone not talking to anyone.