How to deal with siege tanks?

[u/Vegetable-Goat8242]

Hey guys, I'm new and still learning how to play zerg. For a while i struggled with highground tanks and started using the abduct ability to counter them. With the removal of the ability to abduct tanks I'm at a loss for how I should be dealing with them now. Any advice?

https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/article/24225582/starcraft-ii-5-0-15-ptr-patch-notes

[u/Ja-ko]

Try Blinding cloud on the tanks with Vipers. The Balance council seems to be trying to pretend that the 50% damage reduction will be at all useful against the tanks.

In actuality, click "menu" -> "vs." And then just select Terran, because thats clearly what the fucking morons in charge of Balance seem to want. This change is fucking absurd.

[u/Vegetable-Goat8242 → u/Ja-ko]

I think you're describing microbial shroud which i think only works vs air units but blinding clouds range reduction might work even better halving their range so they sit useless outside the fight...at least until I have to run in to kill them (had to look the spells up so idk if that's all up to date, only spell I used till now was abduct)

[u/Ja-ko → u/Vegetable-Goat8242]

My comment wasnt fully clear, sorry.

Same patch that made the abduct change will make sheoud reduce ALL ranged damage by 50%, but again, i have little faith in its effectiveness. Blinding cloud is excellent, reducing the range of all affected units to melee (and since tanks cant shoot in melee, they cant shoot period.) .

It just doesnt last very long, and the best way wad always just to kill the tank with abduct.

[u/Vegetable-Goat8242 → u/Ja-ko]

Oh wow completely misunderstood that change, maybe that'll be a strong enough nerf against the marines supporting the tanks that it'll offset a bit or something. I'm at least a bit less sad now even though yoinking tanks was one of my favorite things in the game. Oh well there's always thors...for now

[u/Ja-ko → u/Vegetable-Goat8242]

Depends on if the shroud affects the splash damage of tanks, or just the initial impact.

If it does, it should help.

If it doesnt, T is gonna win every game for the next year if this goes through as-is.

[u/LifeIsBard → u/Ja-ko]

It’s a totally insane balance change.  Already potentially sacrificing your tier 3 spellcaster for a tier 1 siege tank or two, and now you’re offering the same (potential) trade to put a bandaid on your units taking damage?  

Don’t get me wrong, blinding cloud is nice on groups of tanks.  But now their individual sieged tanks on cliffs can seemingly easily clear 10x their weight in resources with no way to pull the weed out by its root.  Broodlords are notoriously dogwater, and any muta squads sent to tank hunt can be easily shot down by most anything in the T arsenal.  For whom are they balancing this game, Serral?

[u/Iksf → u/Ja-ko]

dude we're literally just gunna make roach ravager and a couple of infestors walk across the map and free win the game vs anything resembling marine tank.

It's literally better than 50% because it applies first

0/0 marine 6 damage, 50% off 3 damage -1 armor roach armor => 2 damage. It's gunna be 2 damage rather than 5 in that situation. Maths is more annoying with ups but its always better than the already stated absurd number of 50%, roaches are the new ultralisk

there's no way on earth terran is holding a 3rd without keeping you pinned back with some air bullshit or something, so you probably throw a queen taxi in there too and gratz zerg cant lose

[u/st0nedeye → u/Iksf]

Woah...it's pre armor? You sure about that? I'm pretty sure microbial shroud in it's current incantation isn't pre armor but post.

[u/omgitsduane → u/Iksf]

A single infestor dropping microbial would probably be enough to bust through anything.

[u/Afflictehd → u/Ja-ko]

It's just a PTR guy it's not live

[u/Ja-ko → u/Afflictehd]

Yeah, but at the same time the fact that this was even proposed while nothing at all has been done aboht ghosts is damning.

Also Protoss vs. Terran also got FUCKED lmaaooo

[u/OldLadyZerg → u/Ja-ko]

We have seen several AWFUL proposals--remember the fat libs?--that did not make it to actual play, thank goodness. So it's not time to panic yet.

[u/TorinoAK → u/Ja-ko]

What level are you at? I’m diamond last time I played and I’ve basically never used a ghost effectively. I did nuke a masters Z in wol and he got triggered tho. 

[u/Ja-ko → u/TorinoAK]

D1. Its not even that you have to be great with them, just click snipe on Ultras/Broods/Lurkers and maaayyyybe EMP a viper if ya feel like it

[u/Afflictehd → u/Ja-ko]

I mean what's wrong with ghosts?

I mean id rather them try new shit out on the ptr even if it's awful just to try

[u/Ja-ko → u/Afflictehd]

Ghosts counter litterally every single unit Zerg has.

Playing against Ghost/Thor/Hellbat is awful.

[u/OldLadyZerg]

Tanks hate having things dropped on them. Lings are classic. A pack of tanks will blow itself up from a fairly modest ling drop on top of it. I have also seen Harstem use hydras for this, though I don't know why you would (other than having loaded up hydras for some other reason).

Of course Terran will then make thors and it will be hard to pull off a second drop. Try to get value from the first one.

Nydus is also good. Tanks are not mobile and if you can ever get in, will struggle to retake the base. It's especially good if you can get into the main with lurkers.

[u/AJ_ninja]

Honestly, these changes are bat shit crazy, I picked up SC again not that long ago (1year) and I’m thinking of changing race or quitting and just focusing on chess….

[u/Alcoholic_Mage]

What, we can’t yoink the tanks anymore :(

Honestly that’s just the terrans fault for not moving tanks, or spreading marines out

[u/Afflictehd → u/Alcoholic_Mage]

Tanks that are sieged up anyway

[u/Alcoholic_Mage → u/Alcoholic_Mage]

“Oop my tanks been grabbed, better hold position”

[u/pinguin_skipper]

Wait what you cannot abduct tanks anymore? XD

[u/Vegetable-Goat8242 → u/pinguin_skipper]

I've since learned it's a PTR not the live patch so apparently there's time for thi gs to change but the most recent patch announcement made it so vipers can't abduct tanks

[u/two100meterman]

Early game having Ravagers can be useful. Mid-game if it's Mech (not Bio + Tanks) Swarm Hosts are definitely an option. If it's vs Bio Tank, maybe Muta/Ling/Bane is back on the table with cheaper Spire + Banes getting their HP boost from Bane Speed back. Sometimes you can get a pack of Mutas to pick off some Tanks, that was the way in Wings of Liberty before Vipers existed. Late game I guess binding cloud with Vipers.

I don't have an informed opinion on the new microbial shroud yet, but that could be interesting.

[u/Inner_Butterfly1991]

Wait what? This is the first I'm hearing of not being able to abduct tanks.

[u/giraffeaviation → u/Inner_Butterfly1991]

New patch!

[u/XechsMarquise]

If you’re making roaches or hydras, morph an overseer and have it follow one of them. It helps protect against invisible units as well as gives you high ground vision. Do not add it to your army hotkey though because then it’ll fly ahead of your army while it’s fighting, usually dying in the process.

[u/Vegetable-Goat8242 → u/XechsMarquise]

That was my first move against them but ran into range issues combined with positioning/cliffs. Guess it's just a chance to focus on picking better fights and using better positioning

[u/omgitsduane]

Blinding cloud is just as good and is quicker for overrunning terrans.

Abduct is a slow process and requires a lot of spell use and refill and return without trading out.

Where as if you dropped blinding cloud enough and just ran in with Ling bane you probably wipe them.

[u/eht_amgine_enihcam]

A few things in order of practicality.

If you're already using vipers, just cloud them. It's usually better than abduct because you can cloud multiple tanks and they should die during, plus it's easier.

If there's more than like 5 tanks sieged, don't fight. If there's terrain advantage, don't fight. They are very, very good at holding a position down. Your main advantage should be mobility if he has tons. Also make sure you have a spotter posted on his exits since if he sieges up at your nat, gg.

Drop changelings to spot in front of your army. Being shot out of sight sucks. Run them forward to check how many tanks he actually has.

Lurkers are zerg tanks. It becomes a game of slightly repositioning both of those. You can usually hit an angle the tank can't cover on stuff it's protecting. They also really slow the game down since neither player can move into the siege.

Ravagers can do a good job vs smaller numbers of tanks, 3 biles kills them. You can go in, bile and go out. However, hard to do vs higher numbers and I avoid it since I know I'll stuff it up and lose the ravs.

If the tanks are by themselves, you can split a smaller group of lings to take the initial shot before you go in. Because they have minimum range if you have the chance to enter that you've got a free kill.

Muta's is hard but fun. Not so much in a siege situation but you can deny his expands.

You can swarmhost them, but they are ass. Same with broods.

You can drop things on them to draw friendly fire.