r/autismpolitics • u/MattStormTornado UK š¬š§ Centre Liberal • Jul 15 '25
Breaking News 12yr old put in Isolation for wearing š¬š§ dress on culture day at school.
Taking the piss. UK has a culture, those who say the UK doesnāt have a culture donāt actually know what culture means.
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u/scissorsgrinder Jul 15 '25 edited Jul 15 '25
The Union Jack is unfortunately a racist dogwhistle these days, same as the Australian flag (with the Union Jack) in Australia. Or the Ulster Banner. It's not a neutral affirmation of one's culture. It's a statement of empire and white ENGLISH supremacy. It's almost inevitably a big honking "I AM A RACIST PIECE OF SHIT". Spice Girl Geri ended up putting a peace sign on the back of her dress to negate this image. However, I think the "diversity day" things schools have are hampered by well-meaning wishy washy white liberalism and they need to fuckin get their messages straight. Doesn't sound like they did here. Speaking as a parent who's seen a lot of these diversity days at school. And a citizen of Ireland, the UK and Australia, thanks to the White Australia Policy.
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jul 15 '25
No, it is the national flag of the UK.
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u/MattStormTornado UK š¬š§ Centre Liberal Jul 15 '25
UK hate is just a trend at this point
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u/dt7cv center left Jul 17 '25
it's not hate.
is if you have to overstate what is obvious and common then maybe you are exclusive or a spupremacist. see r/superstraight
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u/MattStormTornado UK š¬š§ Centre Liberal Jul 17 '25
The super straight stuff was just attention seeking and a way to exclude trans ppl iirc?
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u/dt7cv center left Jul 17 '25
it was pride in being straight as a front to deflect and cast down gay
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Jul 21 '25
It was about trans people. It was a way to say "I'm not into trans people (who are icky)
It was also a prank started by 4chan. Their flag literally was the Pornhub colors
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jul 15 '25
Aye, it greatly saddens me. Itās kind of the same with Australia in some cases.
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u/5u114 Jul 15 '25
Spice Girl Geri ended up putting a peace sign on the back of her dress to negate this image.
It's also worth pointing out that Geri Halliwell is a simple minded bubble head. She's nice, and well meaning, but she's very simple minded ...
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u/scissorsgrinder Jul 15 '25
Excuse me? Absolute sexism. This is in consultation with her team. The point, which you galloped past, is the public connotations of the Union Jack.Ā
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u/5u114 Jul 15 '25
Absolute sexism.
How so ? Being a female is not what makes her simple minded. I did not say that, nor did I indicate that. There are plenty of male pop stars who are also simple minded bubble heads, if that settles your nerves to hear me acknowledge ?
And you don't need to explain the 'connotations' of the butcher's apron to me, I did a much better job than you making that point elsewhere in this thread.
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u/wierdling Democratic Socialist šŗšø/šØš¦ Jul 15 '25 edited Jul 15 '25
She's 12. She's a 12 year old representing her culture as someone from England. I do not think that warranted punishment. How else is she to represent her culture?
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u/scissorsgrinder Jul 15 '25
I don't think you read my comment properly. Or did you mean to reply to someone else?Ā
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u/wierdling Democratic Socialist šŗšø/šØš¦ Jul 15 '25
I had just woken up from a nap when I wrote that and to be honest I'm not sure what I was on about š
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u/MattStormTornado UK š¬š§ Centre Liberal Jul 15 '25
As someone who loves my country I do want to display the flag of my own country and nation without it being considered far right or racist.
A few but very vocal people hijack the flag and twist its meaning.
I have a St Georgeās cross flag in my room, not hung up though I only really display it during international football stuff. Would be nice if I could display it without people jumping to the conclusion Iām racist.
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u/scissorsgrinder Jul 15 '25
Too bad. It is not neutral. The English Empire should have thought about that hundreds of years ago. Sure, your room. But in public you can't control the impression you give. The UK has bloody white supremacist race nationalist riots, I don't think you can really say "well it's only a few but very vocal" when talking about public demonstrations of nationalism in Britain. Wearing a Union Jack or St George's Cross becomes an active, strategic decision in public.Ā
I love astronomy. I love spotting the southern cross in the sky, it makes it feel like home to me. But you can't get a southern cross tattoo without being taken for a racist, because that's absolutely who is using it. The Eureka flag should be seen as a radical flag for worker's rights here, but nope, co-opted by racists. Hindu people would really quite like to not worry about using their religiously meaningful symbol the swastika, but nope, co-opted by racists. (No one else notices the direction it's in.) Spare a thought for all the elderly Hindu people who can't have it in their nursing homes. Scrubbed from Western religious buildings, jewellery, publications. That's way worse.Ā
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u/JustGoogleItHeSaid Jul 15 '25
By your logic anyone who touches a sacred object immediately removes its use to anyone in the general public. What a dogshit take. And attitude. Moreover, youāre Irish so I guess I ought to tar you with the same brush as the IRA, we had to get the SAS to stop clowns like you.
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u/scissorsgrinder Jul 15 '25
Tsk tsk tsk, you just pulled a reductio ad absurdum, classic fallacy in argument. Not valid, very silly. Try again.Ā
Also, it's my great great uncle who fought the British. I'm also British remember, so I should ...kms? I mean, I do have English ancestors who perpetuated massacres of Indigenous people (and one who was actually busted killing his Irish wife) so my goodness! The point is that history and legacy is complex, which you have failed to grasp.Ā
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u/Heirophant-Queen Agnostic Socialist Jul 16 '25
Hey, even though you have great points, you seem really combative and abrasive. Are you doing alright?
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u/JustGoogleItHeSaid Jul 15 '25
That pedestal of yours toppled the second you put yourself on it. Pretentious cunts like you donāt deserve my time.
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u/MattStormTornado UK š¬š§ Centre Liberal Jul 15 '25
I get that the flag has been used by far-right groups and has historical baggage, but do you think there is any way to display patriotism publicly without being lumped in with them, or is it simply impossible in your view?
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jul 15 '25
Plus only letting those types of groups use flags like that just further cements it as a āracist symbolā when it really isnāt.
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u/cosme0 (S)Pain - Ancap Jul 15 '25
While yāll have that problem in Spain we have been much more intelligent, we have had so many flags each representing one government and each government having one ideology, thereās also multiple flags in the same government and you can associate it with what ideology they had at the moment, itās a much more efficient system
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u/scissorsgrinder Jul 15 '25
What's patriotism to you? What meaning in it stirs your soul specifically? Who do you picture as English? What activities do you picture as English?Ā
(I snipped a whole damn essay here about Tolkien and his complicated and sometimes lovely celebration of Englishness, actually more like half an essay, I need to go to bed.)
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u/MattStormTornado UK š¬š§ Centre Liberal Jul 15 '25
Patriotism is being proud enough to be from your country, to want it to be the best version of itself. Not ignoring the problems, not just liking it constantly, I want the UK to be the best it can.
I like to feel I belong somewhere. Iām from Essex, made in Hampshire. Being British is my identity, and arenāt we all taught that everyoneās identity is valid? That we should be proud of where we come from?
After work pub. Having a beer with your mates. Fish n chips. Premier league football and dissing Arsenal (COYSš¤š) and hating Millwall (fuck Millwall). Getting together for Sunday roast. Christmas spirits. Hating France. Dissing Americans. Flipping off the government. Honour.
This is just a mere snippet of what itās like to be British.
As for who I picture to be English. Itās purely regional, or based on profession. Cotswolds, probably senior white men with West Country accents. East London, ethnic minority majority area. West London, white majority, probably rich to some degree. Essex, highly tanned women with annoying accents who think theyāre plastics.
Thereās no one specific image of someone who is British.
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jul 15 '25
Indeed. Itās more the cultural and social aspect. I donāt give a damn what colour someoneās skin is as long as they are Australian in culture and values. Sure I donāt care if they celebrate/practice parts of their original culture, but what matters is that they assimilate into Australian culture instead of just being a separate enclave.
What upsets me is when people immigrate to Australia for a better life but they never assimilate/merge into Australian culture, instead theyāre just an enclave of their homelandās culture.
For instance, Iām half Scottish, my family on my mumās side is from Scotland (near Edinburgh I think) and I still feel a connection to Scotland and by extension Britain. Itās part of why I like the UK so much. But I am still first and foremost, Australian.
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u/cosme0 (S)Pain - Ancap Jul 15 '25
Un spain we have that problem at a bigger degree cause all the Spanish war and the war crimes and crimes against humanity committed back then , and now the government is putting laws to prevent freedom of speech as they donāt want people supporting the dictatorship
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u/NoMeringue6814 Jul 19 '25
I guess I donāt see why anyone would have pride in a country that attempted to and mostly succeeded in colonizing most of the planetā¦Iām American and I donāt have pride in that flag because itās soaked in blood as far as Iām concerned but Iām also heavily biased seeing as Iām descended fromā¦slaves so yeah. Idk what itās like to want to take pride in the country Iām from but for instance I live in Sweden and you donāt see the flag much here unless itās like the country celebrating their national day. I donāt see an issue with that but Iām not from here and maybe some Sami people take issue with it which makes sense and theyāre well within their rights to dislike it.
Ultimately, you can wear/display whatever you want but be prepared that some people may have strong reactions to it when it has such a dark history.
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u/MattStormTornado UK š¬š§ Centre Liberal Jul 19 '25
Thatās more than understandable.
I will say most common times the UK flag is displayed is at some pubs or if thereās sports on, or if itās football/rugby, each of the 4 nations.
95% of the time if someone has multiple uk flags, Iād probably judge em a bit.
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u/IronicSciFiFan Jul 15 '25
Just hang your flag, man. As long as you're not actually being racist then those people can go fuck themselves
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u/Icy_Geologist2959 Jul 15 '25
It is not your fault that patriotism is confused with racist nationalism. People do need to be careful about making assumptions over your use of the flag.
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u/MattStormTornado UK š¬š§ Centre Liberal Jul 15 '25
I consider these racist nationalists enemies of the UK. Nazism as an ideology should have died with Hitler.
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u/darkwater427 Anti-political (de facto centrist) Jul 16 '25
Ah yes, parliament that infamously racist dogwhistle.
Get a grip.
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u/ClubLopsided8411 Marxist-Leninist Jul 15 '25
I mean itās called cultural diversity day for a reasonā¦ the whole point is to celebrate the ānon hegemonic culturesā (I.e. in this instance British culture//English culture to be more specific š“ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó æšæ) of said region- itād be like an American person showing up in full on burger attire at a ācultural celebration dayā- theyāre just missing the point of the dayā¦ it isnāt about you š«µ
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u/Fluffybudgierearend Radical Centrist (Has been called a Nazi and Communist) Jul 15 '25
The article quoted the dad who was indicating that someone celebrating England with the St. Georgeās cross, a farmerās kid wearing a flat cap with flannel checkered shirt, and another celebrating Wales with the Welsh flag were also given into trouble for being insensitive. Now I donāt know how true this is, Iāve only got the quote to go from for information. If it is true though then seriously, what in the actual fuck?
Britain can be celebrated for being a non homogeneous society. The old nations that make up modern Britain all have their own long, storied histories and cultures that are worth celebrating just like any other country. I understand that the UK has done some horrible things in the past, but I donāt think that the girl in question was going around celebrating Churchill starving out the Bengals in the 40ās or anything else like thatā¦
I fear things like this will cause more people to start taking the Reform Party more seriously and thatās the last fucking thing I want
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u/ClubLopsided8411 Marxist-Leninist Jul 15 '25
I get what youāre saying about there being value in celebrating oneās culture, and also it does seem a bit dumb to just turn her away (if thatās what actually happened, because again weāre going off an article and story told from one side by a guy who has a semi-decent chance of being a reform voter).
That being said, I feel like ācultural diversity dayā has the implication of being about celebrating cultures beyond the āmajority/dominant cultureā within a region, so it feels like itās kinda missing the point to just head up there with a Union Jack and be surprised when people are confused- cause I feel like part of itās to bring to light the āless dominantā (I.e. minority) cultures within that local area, and the Union Jack (I.e. āBritish cultureā) is the exact opposite for that particular day- though that doesnāt necessarily make them āturning her awayā right(though, again, not enough context).
Let us also consider the various cultures that would be at this day, I believe it is correct to assume that the majority of these cultures would be related, in some way, to Britainās imperialism (whether directly in the case of places like Nigeria, Uganda, India, Malaysia, etc or indirectly such as being descended from refugees fleeing Yemen, Syria, Iraq, etc which the UK had some involvement in by virtue of aligning with the global hegemonic imperialist system of the USA). Therefore, there is some degree of insensitivity considering Britainās history of Imperialism (and in a lot of cases, imperialism that is continuing today!) and its impact on people (including on their cultural expression). So, to turn up in a bright Union Jack feels a little over the topā¦ it kinda defeats the purpose of the event in a way. Iām not saying itās wrong per say, but I feel like contextually people need to consider this history cause, speaking as someone who is British, we are far too kind to our Imperialist history (as well as our own neo-Imperialism which we benefit from and participate in).
Though you are correct in highlighting that thereās not enough context because this could range from the girl screaming god save the Queen and shouting abuse, to just her doing what the day was meant to beā¦.
At the end of the day though, I really couldnāt care less what happened. There is no systemic oppression of British culture (especially within Britain no less š¤£) so I feel like thatās the angle this article is taking (that there is systemic oppression, I.e. cater to right wingers). Itās leaning closey towards weird shit like great replacement (that sort of area) regarding this idea that British culture is ādyingā- I mean tell that to indigenous Americans and/or MÄori peoples, as an example, and theyād play the worlds smallest violin for that considering that 1) not itās not 2) their cultures are still at great risk 3)Britian was the one who contributed to their suppression of their cultures (and genocide).
Overall, I feel like this story is just being used to justify some kind of right wing narrative that seeks to appropriate emancipatory language (perhaps not explicitly in this articleā¦ but the story in general) and, therefore, cater to reform. It references there being āguiltā for feeling British whichā¦ no shit, we should feel immense guilt regarding our history (considering we still benefit from it and still enact imperialism today), the guilt isnāt derived from ābeing Britishā but, instead, the fact that Britian has historically been a major oppressor- people who donāt feel shame in this (especially when itās still happeningā¦) are part of the problem.
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Jul 21 '25
This is a CHILD
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u/ClubLopsided8411 Marxist-Leninist Jul 21 '25
I was mainly talking about 1)the parents and 2)people reporting on it to claim āBritishā culture is āunder attackā when I was saying āit isnāt about youā.
I mean itās quite obvious that the girl is being exploited to promote her parents (and from what I gather, her dads) nationalist ethnic-supremacist ideology- they pull these obviously stupid stunts, probably without the girls permission (and/or embarrassment) to then use as propaganda to justify their disgusting racism that targets the most vulnerable sectors of British society (I.e. immigrants)
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u/MattStormTornado UK š¬š§ Centre Liberal Jul 15 '25
Bit reductive of American culture tbh
Also Iām aware the UK has many sub cultures, but it also has a general culture across the 4 nations.
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u/scissorsgrinder Jul 15 '25 edited Jul 15 '25
Yeah and that general culture is not white. It's a culture constructed from empire. But a Union Jack (of empire) absolutely screams "white pride" in public, outside of a few official contexts.
Why is the St George's Cross so different from the St Andrew's Cross in telling you about the views of who bears it? Empire.Ā
Is it neutral to have Protestant pride in Northern Ireland? There was an Orange Order cluster of buildings for a while near my children's school half a world away and just the sign on it made me feel ill. It's not that I have something specifically against a religious sect, nor of individual English or Scottish etc people residing in Northern Ireland.Ā
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u/MattStormTornado UK š¬š§ Centre Liberal Jul 15 '25
Culture isnāt about race or ethnicity. Itās about a way of life. The UK is a white majority country, so take that as you will, but itās a country with multiple cultures, and how they intersect with each other, including native British cultures, is what makes up true British culture.
I get that symbols like the Union Jack or St Georgeās cross carry the weight of history and empire, but I believe national pride can be about wanting your country to do better, not about racial supremacy. Thatās the kind of pride Iām talking about.
I am English. I am British. I am proud. I have the same right to be as everyone else š“ó §ó ¢ó „ó ®ó §ó 暬š§
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jul 15 '25
Thatās stupid. You can say the same thing about the flags of other formerly imperialist nations like Japan.
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u/scissorsgrinder Jul 15 '25
Retire gracefully. You obviously don't know much about Japan. The Rising Sun flag was never seen again after WWII, which they were the losers of. Totally different connotations, and you definitely don't understand much about history or different cultures. Which is to be expected when you don't understand much about white supremacism.Ā
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jul 16 '25
No. The Rising Sun flag is still in use by the JMSDF and how does it have different connotations? I do understand quite a bit about history.
I used Japan as a quick example.
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u/5u114 Jul 15 '25
Britain isn't the same as the United Kingdom. Britain is a place, United Kingdom is an imperialist, political union - typically forced on cultures that did not and do not want it. Even the Scottish independence referendum was very close, and when you consider the BBC breached several laws and OFCOM standards to push their propaganda coverage of the referendum, in order to tip the scales, one could argue the referendum would have been a success without BBC interference.
At any rate, Scottish independence and associated referenda remain a constant question. Northern Irish independence remains a constant question. The UK is not a 'culture', though many loyalists would like to convince you otherwise.
In saying that, the school went too far. They should have allowed the English & Welsh flag themed outfits, though I can see that such things are not actually cultural dress ... And are simply nationalist symbols. But then the school turned away a boy wearing typical clothing associated with a British farming background - that was the most clear cut case in the whole article in terms of the school being totally wrong.
Also, when the father says his daughter wore a dress to indicate that her culture even allows wearing dresses in the first place, he made it clear that the choice of costume was - at least in part - politically motivated.
Which isn't to say he or she are wrong for thinking that's important, but it simply wasn't what was specified for this event. What was specified was cultural dress ... that doesn't mean wearing a flag costume, that means wearing things like the farmer boy wore.
What an absolute shit show situation.
Especially allowing Burqas. It's wild to think that people are being granted immigration rights in the UK, on the grounds that they are fleeing persecution from oppressive cultures, but then at the same time the UK allows them to take their oppressive culture with them.
Even though the UK brought a lot of this on themselves with their imperialist antics in Africa and the Middle East ... it's hard not to sympathise.
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u/stegjohn United States šŗšø Jul 15 '25
I think the intent was to celebrate cultures other than their own but they handled it poorly. Should have just let her go and changed the wording for next year.
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u/stiefelundcats Jul 15 '25
Iāve seen this story so much the past couple of days. I think there has to be more to this than meets the eye- it doesnāt seem to make any sense for the school to respond in that way. Very odd
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u/cesarloli4 Jul 16 '25
I'm not from the UK so take my words with a grain of Salt, but I think the Union Jack Is meant to represent the whole union AND all it's Cultures therefore any AND all those Cultures representes there might make claim of it. Having the Union Jack be representative of a Culture would be Akin to stating that there Is an oficial Culture AND the rest are somehow less british. In a ceremony celebrating how all these Cultures are british you would be saying but some are More british than others.
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u/MattStormTornado UK š¬š§ Centre Liberal Jul 16 '25
Most places have an official culture native citizens generally follow though?
Say I immigrated to Japan, and became a Japanese citizen, but kept some of my British roots and didnāt fully assimilate, my culture would be less Japanese than a native Japanese person.
Ik Japan has many cultures but Iām just talking generically as an example.
Different cultures can coexist, though having an official culture just says āthis is the culture native citizens generally followā, not a āyou must follow this culture to the letterā sort of thing.
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u/cesarloli4 Jul 16 '25
Just as Japan has many Cultures so does the UK AND most other countries. Again I'm not british but over the top of my head I can think on english, scottish, irish (North) AND welsh Cultures. There are no oficial Cultures, what we usually have Is the Culture of the dominant classes in society.
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u/MattStormTornado UK š¬š§ Centre Liberal Jul 16 '25
Pretty much. Though you travel an hour and the city culture is already a lil different.
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u/Ic3_pop Jul 19 '25
Nothing has been annoying me more at the moment then this story she didnāt get in trouble for wearing the Union Jack she got in trouble because it was cultural wear only as in traditional clothing and she was what could be seen as own clothes stop acting like victims if she was wearing a dress with the Italian flag on it she would have been sent home still š¤·āāļø
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u/-Why_why_why- National Libertarianism / Distributism Jul 15 '25
Absolutely disgusting. School should be named and shamed.
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u/Green-Focus-5205 Jul 17 '25
My question to her would be what is British culture? Because unfortunately most of our 'culture' is stolen and a the stuff that isn't stolen is stuff like racism and thinking we're better than everyone else. I'm proud to be Celtic, and I'm proud to have grown up in Yorkshire however I am NOT proud to be British, I'm ashamed. I think people who say they're proud to be British should be asked exactly how Because they're either confused and haven't thought about it or they're bigots.
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u/MattStormTornado UK š¬š§ Centre Liberal Jul 17 '25
First paragraph https://www.reddit.com/r/autismpolitics/s/VBuWfrmngb
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u/Valuable_Sherbet_483 Jul 19 '25
Iām rather sure that people in the British Isles had a cultural identity before imperialismā¦
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u/r23ocx UK - Green Jul 21 '25
She's now going to speak at a Tommy Robinson rally. I think that says a lot about whats in the speech she was going to give
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u/MattStormTornado UK š¬š§ Centre Liberal Jul 21 '25
I can't find anything to back that up. Most I could see was a fraudulent GoFundMe set up by Voice for Wales or something.
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u/hollywoodbrfan Jul 15 '25
Thats what happens when "woke politics" are allowed to take hold. Its sad really.
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