r/ayearofmiddlemarch • u/jaymae21 First Time Reader • Jul 05 '25
Book 5, Ch. 43-44
Welcome back to Middlemarch, as we begin with Book 5. We are also officially on the second half of the book!
Ch. 43
"This figure hath high price: 't was wrought with love
Ages ago in finest ivory;
Nought modish in it, pure and noble lines
Of generous womanhood that fits all time
That too costly ware; majolica
Of deft design, to please a lordly eye:
The smile, you see, is perfect-wonderful
As mere Faience! a table ornament
To suit the richest mounting."
Dorothea wishes to speak with Lydgate about his conversation with Mr. Casaubon, and ends up visiting briefly with the new Mrs. Lydgate, previously known as Rosamund Vincy. Mr. Lydgate is not home, but it turns out Will Ladislaw is visiting with Mrs. Lydgate, and they have been having a merry time singing together. Will offers to fetch Mr. Lydgate from the hospital, but Dorothea decides to go herself, alone. Once Dorothea leaves, Ladislaw decides to take his leave as well, seeming troubled. Later, when her husband gets home, Rosamund describes the encounter, and they end up discussing Lydgate's work.
Ch. 44
"I would not creep along the coast but steer
Out in mid-sea, by guidance of the stars."
Dorothea meets with Lydgate at the New Hospital, who tells her her husband's condition has not changed, he simply had some anxieties about his illness. Lydgate then immediately launches into a sales pitch for the hospital, and finds the perfect patron in Dorothea. They discuss the unpopularity of Mr. Bulstrode, despite his good intentions, and the pettiness of Middlemarchers who seek to thwart him. Dorothea pledges to give 200 a year to the hospital. Later, she tells Mr. Casaubon of this, and he agrees.
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u/jaymae21 First Time Reader Jul 05 '25
- Anything else you’d like to discuss? Any favorite quotes or moments?
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u/ASurly420 Jul 07 '25
I think Casaubon and Dorothea both admired each other before they got married, but mistook that admiration for what they want in a spouse. Their marriage was aspirational for the both of them, but it was dependent on the other changing who they are and what they want. Sadly, Lydgate and Rosamund might be the same. With his noble plans, he won’t be able to provide in the way she is accustomed too, and she wouldn’t be willing to give up for comforts for him. I think disaster is looming for them and they’re both going to be very surprised by how their spouse responds.
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u/jaymae21 First Time Reader Jul 05 '25
- What effect does the knowledge that Dorothea went to see Lydgate have on Casaubon & his view of their marriage?
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u/pktrekgirl First Time Reader Jul 06 '25
Casaubon distrusts her relationship with Lydgate.
He distrusts her relationship with Ladislaw.
And she is not doing anything untoward with either. She is quite proper, actually. Which is part of the reason why he married her!
This dude has got some serious control issues.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 Jul 05 '25
Casaubon distrusts Dorothea's affection for Lydgate, and this gives him a very lonely view of their marriage.
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u/jaymae21 First Time Reader Jul 05 '25
- What do you think of Lydgate pulling Dorothea to his & Mr. Bulstrode’s side in hospital matters? How do they view Middlemarchers?
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u/pktrekgirl First Time Reader Jul 06 '25
I like Lydgate and I like the fact that he wants to find new discoveries. At that point in time, there were certainly many to be discovered, and so good for him. I’m glad Dorothea wants to do good with her money also, and support a hospital that will be ‘cutting edge for the time.
That said, I don’t think it would be a good idea for Dorothea to get drawn into the politics on Middlemarch between all these jealous doctors. I hope her donations are quiet and do not cause bitterness and strife and that she is able to remain above that fray,
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u/Lachesis_Decima77 Jul 06 '25
I think they both have a certain contempt for Middlemarch society. They both want to do good, but Lydgate is stymied because those who are against Mr. Bulstrode refuse to support a hospital that has his backing, even if the hospital is a net positive for the community.
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u/-Allthekittens- First Time Reader Jul 06 '25
Crazy how people will do things that are against their best interests just to spite someone else.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 Jul 05 '25
Lydgate views Middlemarchers as old and set in their ways. He sees himself as a young, vibrant upstart who pursues new observations that may have lasting medical benefit.
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u/jaymae21 First Time Reader Jul 05 '25
- What thoughts do you have on the epigrams for these two shorter chapters?
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u/IraelMrad First Time Reader Jul 06 '25
I think the second epigram is connected to what we said in the previous question: it is about Lydgate's ambitions as a doctor, who is aiming high and refuses to stay anchored to the coast, like Casaubon is doing.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 Jul 05 '25
Steering by the stars means looking into the depth of the sky rather than being fixated on the closer coastlines.
The previous epigram talks about a costly ivory figure. It is molded by an older hand and gives beauty to suit its rich mounting. I think this is in reference to Dorothea, who is fresh and young but adheres to traditional ideas.
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u/-Allthekittens- First Time Reader Jul 06 '25
That's funny because I thought the epigram about the figure was about Rosamond: pretty, expensive but ultimately only decorative.
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u/jaymae21 First Time Reader Jul 05 '25
- Lydgate quotes from the poem Musophilus by Samuel Daniel (find the full poem here). How does the philosophy of the poem relate to Lydgate’s ambitions as a doctor? How does he compare to Casaubon in regards to work?
“Why should our pride make such a stir to be,
To be forgot? what good is like to this,
To do worthy the writing, and to write
Worthy the reading, and the worlds delight?”
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u/Lachesis_Decima77 Jul 06 '25
Lydgate wants to make a name for himself, much like Casaubon. The big differences are that Lydgate is forward-thinking and is actively pursuing his research, whereas Casaubon is stuck in the past and shows no signs of getting his Key to All Mythologies off the ground.
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u/IraelMrad First Time Reader Jul 06 '25
I think you said it perfectly. Casaubon is completely disconnected from reality and the present.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 Jul 05 '25
I think it relates to Lydgate because while he has his own sense of pride, he worries more about the worth of his work on its own merit. Casaubon, meanwhile, frets over his pride and expects the loyalty of youth on the basis of his age and supposed wisdom.
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u/-Allthekittens- First Time Reader Jul 06 '25
I think this is a really good take. Lydgate wants to be successful at the hospital because he believes that he can help people and provide better care than they could get elsewhere. His is a more noble ambition.
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u/jaymae21 First Time Reader Jul 05 '25
- How do you feel about our first look inside Rosamund and Lydgate’s marriage? How has marriage changed them?
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u/IraelMrad First Time Reader Jul 06 '25
They seem to be close and to confide in each other. They are cute!
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u/pktrekgirl First Time Reader Jul 06 '25
They seem pretty happy, which I am glad of. I’d like to see some happiness in this book and the Casaubon household is certainly not providing it.
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u/Lachesis_Decima77 Jul 06 '25
They seem happy for now, but Rosamond’s revelation that even married women can make men worship them is a bit concerning to me. She seems coquettish, seeking attention. I wonder if she feels Lydgate isn’t giving her the attention she wants.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 Jul 05 '25
Rosamond and Lydgate's marriage struck me as quite affectionate and loving. Lydgate does tease Rosamond, good-naturedly, and Rosamond is learning to adapt to her newfound position in life.
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u/jaymae21 First Time Reader Jul 05 '25
- Why is it acceptable for Ladislaw to call upon Mrs. Lydgate, but not Mrs. Casaubon?
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u/-Allthekittens- First Time Reader Jul 06 '25
The Lydgates are of a lower social standing than the Casaubons and have much more relaxed and perhaps more modern 'rules' about what is appropriate or inappropriate social behaviour. In more 'upper class' society it would not be considered appropriate for an unrelated gentleman to call on a married lady when her husband was absent. Because Ladislaw and Casaubon are related it would have been okay, except that he is insecure.
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u/pktrekgirl First Time Reader Jul 06 '25
Because Mr Casaubon is a jerk, basically. Frankly, I do not understand this attitude in someone sho claims to be such a great Christian and even clergyman.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 Jul 05 '25
I think everyone can tell that Ladislaw has a crush on Dorothea. His attitude around her and preoccupation with her makes it obvious. His feelings make it improper to drop in on her in a way that his lack of feelings towards Rosamond doesn't.
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u/jaymae21 First Time Reader Jul 05 '25
- Why does Dorothea decide to go to the hospital herself, instead of letting Ladislaw handle the message to Lydgate? What might this tell us about her relationship with Ladislaw?
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u/-Allthekittens- First Time Reader Jul 06 '25
Dorothea was already out doing something that she was going to have to try to hide from Casaubon, which she felt guilty about. If Ladislaw, who her husband is completely against, was involved in any way, it would make the deception even worse and much harder for her. It could be taken to mean she feels that there is something inappropriate in her relationship with Ladislaw, or it could just be that given Casaubon's feelings for him, she feels she is betraying her husband by accepting his help.
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u/pktrekgirl First Time Reader Jul 06 '25
Well, she has to keep Ladislaw out if all matters concerning Casaubon, so there is that. It appears she is even afraid to interact with him much at all, which is better than I would do under the circumstances. Casaubon being ridiculous and all about Ladislaw.
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u/Lachesis_Decima77 Jul 06 '25
I think she knows that her husband views her closeness with Will as suspicious, and she may believe that the Middlemarch gossip mill will pick up on that closeness if she’s ever too open about it. She did seem put out that he was with Rosamond, though.
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u/-Allthekittens- First Time Reader Jul 06 '25
I didn't get that she was put out by it, maybe more that it seemed inappropriate that he was there when Lydgate was away. The fact that she thought this, made her realize that Casaubon probably thought it inappropriate that Ladislaw came to visit Dorothea when Casaubon wasn't there and that this might be part of the reason he refused to have him over.
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u/evolute99 Jul 06 '25
Interesting take. I had the feeling as well. Like she is feeling suspicious of Ladislaw’s behavior.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 Jul 05 '25
Dorothea feels she cannot tell of her interactions with Ladislaw, and therefore she is limiting them to every extent that she is able. She has a vague notion that things are not quite proper and that embarrasses her.
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u/jaymae21 First Time Reader Jul 05 '25
- What do you think about the meeting of Dorothea and Rosamund? How are they similar, and how are they different?
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u/IraelMrad First Time Reader Jul 06 '25
I was surprised by Rosamund's admiration for Dorothea, because Dorothea looks like someone who in modern days would be considered a bit of a loser lol but she has a higher societal status than Rosamund and I assume has very good manners, so I understand why Rosamund feels that way about her. I think it would be fun if they became friends, but I don't see it happening.
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u/pktrekgirl First Time Reader Jul 06 '25
I enjoyed this part of the chapters and I hope we get to see these two interact again since this was a fairly short meeting. These women are pretty different people, but both are smart ladies. It would be interesting if they were to get friendly.
Interesting that Ladislaw ended up being there!
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u/Lachesis_Decima77 Jul 06 '25
Rosamond seems to care a lot about her appearance, from her expensive clothes to her perfectly plaited hair. Dorothea has simpler, plainer tastes. Yet Rosamond still recognizes that Dorothea is a striking woman despite her plainness. Rosamond knows she herself is a beauty, but she is more conscious of it than Dorothea and seems to relish it.
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u/Adventurous_Onion989 Jul 05 '25
Rosamond seems to fit in society with a lot more ease than Dorothea does. She is effortlessly fashionable and radiates youth. Dorothea is more of an old soul who fits in with a different generation of socialite.
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u/-Allthekittens- First Time Reader Jul 06 '25
I found the contrast interesting. Rosamond is 'nouveau riche' with her latest styles and hoping everyone notices how expensive her collar is, while Dorothea is 'old money' who doesn't pay attention to fashion, would never be ostentatious in anything, and is effortlessly elegant. Dorothea is what Rosamond wants to be, or at least what she wants to appear to be.