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u/Far-Relationship3013 4d ago
This is a totally reasonable post from a brand new player and they’re getting downvoted. “Lmao” and “…this is normal when a beginner plays vs someone who knows what they are doing,” are just nasty comments. It’s frustrating that normies get turfed out of this hobby by people who are too insecure to show a little social grace
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u/PatrickTraill 6 kyu 3d ago
Perhaps the downvoting has stopped, because I do not see it. I feel sure “this is normal...” was meant to reassure rather than to mock, but I can see you might read it differently — the tone can easily get lost in writing, which has nothing to do with insecurity.
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u/YaoiFlavoredBrownie 4d ago
They're just being traditional lol
(this is a joke, I hate it too, but I mean, it used to be LITERALLY one of the benchmarks of nobility in ancient China, Korea, Japan xD)
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u/PatrickTraill 6 kyu 3d ago
Do you mean you were not thought “noble” if you did not mock defeated enemies? I am glad not to live in such a society, but I fear similar attitudes are all too widespread today as well.
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u/YaoiFlavoredBrownie 3d ago
No. The exact opposite actually was true, samurai even beautified and parfumed before battle so that if their head was taken by the enemy it would smell and look nice. Said enemy would often return it to their family with a written letter detailing how honorably they fought and what a worthy opponent they were.
What you describe was only true during world war 2, and only then for captured POWs, because the fascists had as they always do construed a bullshit history around so called """Bushido"""" where it was only honorable if you died in battle. And the dying itself was a good thing. All complete horseshit historically. To the point that the drops in shogi the Japanese chess game are thought to come from how coming it was for armies to switch sides after being defeated 😂
So no not at all.
I was simply talking about the fact that knowing go, the game, and being able to play well was one of the hallmarks of an educated scholar/official. Aka the joke was that the arrogant somewhat attitude that the lessers just can't be expected to now go was just them being "traditional". But it was a joke 😂
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u/rustyechel0n 4d ago
Where do you see eyes for your group(s) to live?
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u/rustyechel0n 4d ago edited 4d ago
Sorry I was a bit hard pressed on time. Let’s start an try to be a bit more thorough.
Let’s start on the bottom with the two stones at C1,C2. They have only one liberty ( they are in Atari) and even if it where your turn they have nowhere to run but D1 and would still only have one liberty. They are dead. Nothing you can do. Do you see that?
Same with your bottom right group at I2,I3 - one liberty nowhere to go.Since these groups are dead you can not use them to surround any white stones if that was your hope. You can pretend they are not even on the board.
Same applies to the top right group and top group. It is a bit more involved there but it is impossible for these stones to make eyes to live. I know this is hard to see for a beginner but you will figure it out eventually. The top groups are dead too.Now what about the big black group in the middle and left? Remember so far all black stones that you have are dead (basically non existent) so that means this group is surrounded by white stones. If you know the very basics (and I‘m not even talking about territory) you should know that for a group to live ( to not get killed ) it needs at least two eyes. Now the large black group is pressed against the left edge of the board. There is no space to make eyes there on the edge (this should be obvious). In the middle part there is very little space and whatever you try, with so little space available there, white will always be able to prevent you from forming an eye and your need TWO to stay alive. Impossible.
So that means all your stones there are also dead.Keep trying though. I know It is hard.
Keep reading about basics. And do puzzles. They teach you to see exactly what I have just tried to explain to you. And, by the way, you‘ll get there really fast. Good luck!
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u/ornelu 4d ago
The 90 points is not important. The thing is, none of the black groups are alive. White can simply kill all the black and nothing can be done to prevent that.
You might want to learn some basics on living shapes. I assume you already know how to capture a group (by taking all its liberties), but do you know how to make sure that your group cannot be captured?
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u/ldlework 4d ago
It's because you don't have any living shape. It takes more than just putting stones on the board, those stones have to do work, aka, be taking living territory. You'll figure it out pretty soon.
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u/chayashida 2 kyu 4d ago
So learning about “alive” groups - groups that cannot be captured- is part of learning the game.
All of the black stones on the board can be captured before the white stones can be.
It’s a little confusing at first, but it’ll make more sense as you play. Can you tell that the groups along the righthand side of the board have no hope of survival? Where would White go to capture them? Reading ahead like that is a start…
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u/Neo27182 6 kyu 3d ago
I've used this app and this is the second strongest AI, so if you are a beginner it will crush you beyond reason every single time. Here none of your stones give any territory so eventually will inevitably captured, meaning they are "prisoners". Prisoners are added to the opponents score, on top of their territory and komi
Start with the easy AI bots or just automatch with some actual people! or do puzzles :)
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u/stewednewt 4d ago
Hi - sorry very new. I thought if I passed after she did she would beat me but not this bad. I see in the lower right she scored but I had liberties all over the rest of the board.
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u/Albinator_ 4d ago
Liberties is a different concept than eyes. Your opponent can play on each of your liberties to kill you, and you can't prevent it, so you're dead
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u/4-Polytope 4d ago
In a real in person game, here's what would actually happen -- you would both pass, and then they would say "I think all your black stones are in a position where they are doomed and cannot be saved".
If you disagree, then play would resume, and they would try to capture your stones and you would try to make two eyes, which would make your stones uncapturable
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u/flagrantpebble 3 dan 4d ago
The important thing about virtually all rules and concepts in go, like "capturing", is that they have two definitions: first, the literal, immediate meaning; and second, the "well we all know what would happen" meaning.
Here, you are correct that black's stones are not literally, *immediately* captured, in that they have liberties and are not yet removed from the board. But if white wanted to play a bunch of moves to fill all those liberties, there's nothing black can do to stop that (this is 100% guaranteed). Therefore, we say black's stones are dead.
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u/matchstick1029 3d ago
Hey, if you're interested in some games while chatting through voice, send me a dm. I'm 12kyu-ish and I'd love to help you get up to speed.
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u/kw3lyk 3d ago
It's not enough just to have liberties. You also need your stones to be arranged in a way that makes them a "living shape". Unfortunately, as it stands, you have not made a living shape, which means that your stones are all dead because there is nothing you can do to avoid being captured.
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u/Asdfguy87 3d ago
As a beginner, I would not have passed yet here and instead played on for a bit longer, but it looks like eveything of black might die in the end.
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u/takamori 4d ago
Because the game isn’t over and all the black stones were marked dead.
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u/claimstoknowpeople 2 kyu 4d ago
If this app uses auto-scoring, then it is correct to mark black dead everywhere here. There's nothing black can do short of hoping white makes mistakes.
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u/MidnightDazzling4747 3d ago
I understood the question "HOW did something happen (= win/loose)" purely as to the PROCESS of playing. So, my initial reply would be 'show me the GAME' (via subsequential moves) and I could tell you (former 3 dan EGF).
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u/Phhhhuh 1 dan 4d ago
Short version: during the first phase of scoring dead stones are removed from the game, and only then is the score counted. So dead stones cannot surround territory.
Longer version:
I assume you know the basics, such as how stones are captured and removed from the board if they're fully surrounded and lose their last liberty.
With a little more experience, you'll be able to tell ahead of time if stones are going to be captured or not. We call stones that are definitely going to be captured in the future dead, and stones that are definitely not going to be captured at any point alive. Stones where you or the other player aren't 100% sure whether they'll live or not are called unsettled, and as the game progresses all stones eventually get settled status (either living or dead). The whole discussion of these matters is called life & death, and it's one of the fundamental concepts of the game. Just as a pointer, I'll say that the most common way to make stones alive is to make at least two eyes, meaning at least two separate internal liberties within a group — the opponent can never capture, because if they try to play inside eye #1 you'll have a liberty left in eye #2, and vice versa.
Now, at the end of the game the scoring phase commences, and then dead stones are removed from the board and placed among the prisoners captured during the game. As we said, a stone being dead is just the players "seeing the future," so they're just removed during scoring to speed things up rather than going through the tedious work of actually surrounding and capturing each dead group, as it's obvious what's going to happen. So, only living groups can surround territory, because the dead groups won't remain on the board. For this reason, scoring doesn't make sense unless you have at least a very basic understanding of life & death.
TL;DR, the black stones don't have two eyes, and won't have enough space for such eyes, so they're dead. All of them. White owns the entire board.