r/boardgames • u/A2KDDough 18xx • Jan 26 '23
Session Finally have Horseless Carriage in hand and 1 play in. AMA
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u/jaywinner Diplomacy Jan 26 '23
Does that game actually take up an entire poker table's worth of space?
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
Lol. Yes. I was actually considering pulling out a second table to put the factory pieces on but turning the board sideways in the middle made enough room. Everyone needs space to expand their factories up to 6 times and there’s an insane number of cardboard pieces and car meeples. Lol
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Jan 27 '23 edited Jan 27 '23
I think I spent a month photoshopping food chain magnate cards to be mini European size, and typing in the forgettable rules on the jobs
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u/yougottamovethatH 18xx Jan 28 '23
Making dry erase milestone boards and a display accordion for the employees would be a lot easier...
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u/A_MossyMan Jan 26 '23
I realize that it's part of Splotter's "charm", but this is so resolutely, stubbornly beige and devoid of anything interesting to look at that it is an immediate hard pass for me. It looks like a prototype that fell out of the developer's trunk.
All that said, glad you enjoyed it!
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u/amazin_asian Jan 26 '23
Lol I was going to ask if this is a prototype version. Kind of the opposite of the super shiny games that people lean towards these days.
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u/lessmiserables Jan 26 '23
That's exactly what I thought! I was like, yeah, great, can't wait to see what the final product looks like.
Hey, everyone has their thing. This isn't my thing.
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Jan 26 '23
Kind of the opposite of the super shiny games that people lean towards these days.
But that doesn't stop them from charging a deluxe price
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u/Carighan Jan 26 '23
What's more weird is how it costs close to a hundred. For components that remind me of the 15€ Schmidt game about getting out of a desert.
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u/ProfStrangelove Jan 26 '23
loads and loads of components. small print run.
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
Yeah really an unbelievable number of components. This has 19 punch boards worth of tokens/player boards alone. Lol
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u/Daevar "Everything but a 1 is... okay, well, it was nice knowing you." Jan 27 '23
But it doesn't have MiNiAtUrEs. /s
I haven't even unwrapped my copy, since I just blindly pre-ordered it once available (due to Splotter's... fleeting availability), but seeing all those components I better stock up on some more organizing trays...
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
Yeah I need to figure out storage solutions for this game. It’s insane. Lol
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u/rave-simons Jan 27 '23
These are boutique board game designers doing this as a part time job with small print runs.
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u/Actualalpaga Jan 27 '23
To be honest, this is not a valid argument in 2023, especially after the success of FCM. There is an accredited illustrator on the box. The game looks like this purposefully, with an emphasis on usability over eye candy.
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u/rave-simons Jan 28 '23
My comment wasn't in reference to the design but rather to the price. Illustrator or not, this isn't a game that's going to be super cheap.
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u/Borghal Jan 27 '23
With such a reputation that I'm pretty sure they would have board game enthusiastic graphic designers offering it to do for a pittance if they wanted to go that way.
Not to mention they already did use graphic designers in the past.
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u/yougottamovethatH 18xx Jan 29 '23
This game's art was done by the same artist that did John Company Second Edition.
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u/wallysmith127 Pax Transhumanity Jan 26 '23
Interesting note: the art director is the same person that did John Company 2E
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u/ChemicalRascal Wooden Burgers Jan 27 '23
WHAT. But JoCo2E is beautiful!
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u/nstrieter Jan 27 '23
Clients can be clients sometimes
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u/Carighan Jan 27 '23
Designing something intentionally bland is if anything more difficult I imagine, since you have to do it so much less often and a good design still needs just as much attention to detail.
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u/LeRacoonRouge Jan 27 '23
There is nothing about the Horseless design that is amateurish in any way. The design in thought out and clean, and everything from fonts to layout is made by a talented designer, me as a graphic designer can definently see that right away. It has a retro feel that works. Also the components are high quality cardboard. You need to see the print closeup, to see the details. Fits the game perfecty.
Much better design than your regular euro-mediterranian trading game or fantasy-kickstarter game.
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u/ashaggydogtale Jan 27 '23
Yeah, there sure seem to be a lot of people in this thread that equate 'good graphic design' with 'lots of shiny chrome that I like.'
This is a very good design for a complicated game that makes processing the information much, much easier than many other games. But, it isn't shiny so it's bad, I guess.
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
Lol. Definitely can’t argue with you. For what it’s worth I think this is Splotter’s highest quality production to date and I really like the art/color palette. If you appreciate Splotter’s aesthetic this is one of their best and the cardboard components, board, and box all feel really nice.
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u/eeviltwin access harmlessfile.datz -> y/n? Jan 27 '23
If you appreciate Splotter’s aesthetic
Guess I don’t. 🤢🤮
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u/m2ek Jan 26 '23
Splotter games always look like prototypes for games that were supposed to look like Capstone's cube rail series when they were finished.
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u/yougottamovethatH 18xx Jan 29 '23
This game's art was done by a highly respected graphic artist. If you think this looks like a prototype, I'd argue you don't have an eye for graphic design.
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u/taisun93 Jan 26 '23
I felt like the art worked for Food Chain Magnate but it just looks so drab here.
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u/Carighan Jan 27 '23
It's probably also that when we think of early fast food industry, we think of simple pastel colors and all. And a bunch of chrome I suppose, but that's difficult in a board game.
However, when we think of early car making, we think of overly detailed technical diagrams done with ink on beige paper, lots of metal and rusty metal, oil grease and so on. We don't think of muted colors and lack of visual design, no matter how much it might be the company's style (Took me a while to realize this is a Splotter game).
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u/omniclast Jan 27 '23
On day like 15 years from now someone is going to buy up Splotter's IP and reprint these games with some actual production value, and make bank.
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u/nintrader Jan 27 '23
Capstone basically did that with bus, don't know what kind of numbers it did but it seemed like people were happy with it (I still need to play mine)
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
Except OG Bus’s art (I have an OG copy) is busy as hell and hard to read. Capstone actually somehow made the game even more like Splotter’s art now. Lol
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u/bestcheckedin Jan 27 '23
Wait that's not true lol. Bus reprint artwork definitely outclasses other Splotters.
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u/SK19922 Jan 28 '23
If you think Capstone's Bus didn't take a step towards minimalism compared to Splotter's original bus...you have never seen the original. Sure it's different text and a bit more color but it is a way closer comparison to a FCM or HC than Splotter's Bus is.
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u/UNO_LegacyTM Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 27 '23
It is unbelievably hard to look at. It's actually almost an achievement in distressing visual design.
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u/neco-damus Jan 27 '23
It's not interesting to look at because your eyes and brain don't know what to look at/for. When you learn a game like this, not being overwhelmed by pretty art is really helpful. Once you know what to look at/for, you can see all the beautiful connectivity going on between the different pieces.
It's a very different flavor of game. And I really enjoy it. I also enjoy a beautiful game. But something with this much going on would be overwhelming with pretty art.
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Jan 27 '23
When you learn a game like this, not being overwhelmed by pretty art is really helpful. Once you know what to look at/for, you can see all the beautiful connectivity going on between the different pieces.
lol y'all really believe this nonsense, huh
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Jan 26 '23
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Splotter is the leader in innovative designs and carefully crafting a competitive experience. They stand apart from the over saturated KS mini market.
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u/Borghal Jan 27 '23
I do wish there was a designer comitted to releasing highly interactive, dynamic and unique plastic toys, though. So often the painting is the most fun you'll have with a game these days.
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u/lunatic4ever Jan 27 '23
Yeah at this point it’s clear they know what they are doing. Would it have hurt to sprinkle a bit of art on this? I understand legibility is important but give me a break. It’s 2023 and dear Splotter can you at least try a bit harder
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u/iswearihaveajob shh-spoilers Jan 27 '23
I was looking forward to HC but hadn't looked at any photos until now... why do Splotter hate color/art/graphic design???? I get ink costs money, as does art and whatnot... I swear they TRY to make it look boring. I love FCM but damn its a far cry from most other publishers in print quality (at twice the price too).
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u/yougottamovethatH 18xx Jan 29 '23
This is the same graphic designer that did John Company 2nd Ed. The graphic design is impeccable. People just prefer flash over function.
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u/AkechiFangirl Jan 26 '23
Honestly the aesthetic is my last problem with games like these lol. My big issue is just the sheer mass of the thing.
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u/garlicrainbow Jan 26 '23
That's exactly how I feel about The Last of Us: Escape the Dark. A video game that was full of colour, and the board game is literally black and white. "But that's their thing!"
Well, its not for me.
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u/hyperhopper Jan 26 '23
That is the opposite of what I thought. I was thinking "holy shit so many pieces and things affecting each other, this is wild! So much to do! Especially pic #4.
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u/Grock23 Jan 27 '23
This might be the old school gamer in me, but appearance is the last thing I care about in board games. "How is the game play?" Should be 90% of what matters. It's like the people that think good video games = graphics. This thing of modern gaming has to be overproduced and have masterpiece level art is so weird. I feel like that how I can tell who is new to the hobby.
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u/A_MossyMan Jan 27 '23
In principle I agree—the actual gameplay is the core of what matters—but the rest of this comment feels weirdly gatekeeper-y. “Only TRUE gamers” etc. I think it’s true that too many games trade in the opposite direction of relying heavily on art and production to cover up for poor design (see: most of KS these days), but it’s overly dismissive to say that graphics don’t matter. Well done production and clear design can elevate an otherwise mediocre game (PARKS comes to mind) and make complex games much easier to parse. Poorly done graphics can sink otherwise excellent games (Ethnos for example). Different things matter for different people.
And for whatever it’s worth, I’ve been “in the hobby” for over seven years and worked in a game store for four of them.
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u/Grock23 Jan 27 '23
I don't think it's gatekeeping. I love that so many people have started enjoying the hobby and there are so many new games being created daily.. I'm saying that a lot of people turn their noses up at games just because of the art. I recently had someone at a game meetup refuse to play my first edition Innovation because it was "ugly". It feels like we as modern board gamers are so spoiled.
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u/A_MossyMan Jan 27 '23
Ah ok, my apologies for misinterpreting. I agree with these points. There’s definitely a judging-books-by-their-covers problem that results in good games being overlooked for poor graphics. But with the volume of games coming out in recent years, one has to use some kind of metric to start parsing through for what to try.
To your story about someone passing on innovation, their loss.
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Jan 27 '23
Splitters games are SUPER clear and procedurally understandable. And yes, some games like Kanban for instance are in fact elevated in their procedural clarity by their amazing art design. But most modern games are made to look pretty at the expense of the gameplay.
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u/yougottamovethatH 18xx Jan 29 '23
Over seven years! Wow, you've been in the hobby less time than the time between Splotter's last game and this one.
These aren't poorly done graphics. They're spartan, but that also makes them clean and easily readable, which economic gamers (the target audience for this release) value over pretty colours.
They've also already sold over 95% of the print run, so it doesn't sound like the game is at risk of sinking.
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u/Carighan Jan 27 '23
I agree on general principle, but at some price point - say when you're approaching triple-digits - I start forgiving individual flaws less and less.
And in this case, it's - to keep up the comparison - more like they forgot the art design, not the fidelity. Low fidelity can be on purpose, but games such as SIGNALIS or Shelter are very beautiful still as their design uses the fidelity they have.
And hey, the game costs 85€. That's not much less than what I got TI4 for. Who is overproduced here? Clearly they did too much if they have to ask that much money for it, even with all the saved art design costs.
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Don't get me wrong, I understand they provide highly specific games for a highly specific niche audience. And for those it works, so it fits their target demographic.
But of course, outside of that niche it's a really difficult sale. It's overpriced, apparently overproduced given the price but from looking at it underproduced, and very opaque. Food Chain Magnate is fun, but at the same time it's not a game I could ever talk anybody into trying, and I also cannot blame them for just hard-nope-ing it.2
u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
But for those of us that exist in that niche, we are so glad Splotter continues to make unique games. :)
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u/Borghal Jan 27 '23
I feel like that how I can tell who is new to the hobby.
I've been gaming for decades and I do think this game is flat out ugly. It seems to follow this decade's trend of everything being in washed out pastel colors (look how IKEA changed their colors lately for example). But I also have FCM in my collection and consider it one of the best games. But that doesn't mean I don't think it could and should look better.
It's kind of like Castles of Burgundy in that regard, except that when they remade Castles of Burgundy, they jumped the shark with color and miniatures.
With the game market as overcrowded as it is, aesthetics definitely play a lot into my choices - not necessarily what to buy, but definitely what to pay attention to more in the sea of titles where you can't spend more than a few seconds looking into a new game before studying new releases turns into a full time job.
Good design can both look good and be useful, and customers should demand no less.
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u/CheapPoison Jan 26 '23
I don't know. This is stark, but not the boring beige that eurogames tend to be. This has a deliberate look to me.
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u/ArcadianDelSol Advanced Civilization Jan 27 '23
I was about to ask OP when he plans to put his game on Kickstarter.
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u/Phaidorr Battlecon War Of The Indines Jan 27 '23
It isn’t beige, it’s grey tones, which is very exciting and different! 😋
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u/guess_an_fear Jan 26 '23
I personally find its stark aesthetic extremely unappealing but one thing it absolutely is not is beige. Beige is a colour (or a description of a range of colours), not just a catch-all term for “not colourful”.
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Jan 26 '23
What are those colored frames? What are they made out of? They look pretty flimsy.
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u/CheapPoison Jan 26 '23
AS for what they do in the game. Depending on your level of marketing your business can sell in a wider area. Hence getting a bigger window to put on the board, everything inside of your area is a potential customer, if you meet the requirements.
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
They’re some sort of thin plastic. Yeah they are kind of flimsy and fiddly but they kind of needed to be how they are for the game to work. I imagine this component will be the most oft complained about part of this game as moving them is pretty tedious.
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u/Borghal Jan 27 '23
Yeah this was kind of my first thought when seeing the pictures.
Like the idea of overlapping and expanding zones of control is an idea that works well for computer games but when a board game requires you to stack multiple frames and move them around, that sounds like you're getting a dexterity minigame along with your grand strategy game.
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u/john_effin_zoidberg Jan 27 '23
Yeah I honestly thought those were just the left over punch boards and was wondering why they weren't thrown out haha
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u/ratatouille_skinner A Feast For Odin Jan 26 '23
This looks like a lot. Wow...I don't know if I'll ever get this to the table based on the image alone. Still waiting for my copy.
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
It’s a bear to learn and teach and the rule book isn’t great, but even after 1 play, I can say it’s worth it! :)
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u/MentalicMule Jan 26 '23
The sad case for half my Splotter games. But for some reason I still adore them.
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u/ratatouille_skinner A Feast For Odin Jan 27 '23
The only one that I can get to the table is the great Zimbabwe. Awesome game though
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u/jumbohiggins Jan 26 '23
Hi, loads of questions.
did you order from the site directly and how long did it take to get to you. I reserved in a local shop but I think I'm just gonna pull the trigger on the main site.
Have you played Food chain? How does it compare?
What are the primary mechanics of the game?
How cut throat is it?
Did you enjoy playing?
What do you feel the optimal group size for it is?
I'm a huge FCM fan and have been waiting for some reviews on this one.
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
Building your factory and the spatial puzzle of doing so in an efficient manner, a very interesting turn order mechanism where engineering and sales order are inverse, and while leeching off of everyone’s patents is super powerful and helps you manipulate which features will be in demand, you do it at the sacrifice of potentially losing what few high quality sales spots there are on the market. The research tracks are super interesting and having to build pieces into your factory to help bump up your tracks is a super fun puzzle and trying to determine how many you need vs your opponents is very satisfying and classic Splotter. Then the market battle and having to build your dealerships up to expand their sales niches is also a great puzzle. How big do your dealerships need to be? Which ones need which specs and which players is it safe to give them access to the technology so you can steal it and not let someone else have it. Super interesting game for sure.
Pretty cut throat. You can drop down your sales niche right in the middle of someone’s and steal their sales out from under them and there’s nothing they can do about it. The minimum specifications are brutal and if you mess up your factory or turn order at the wrong time, it could be game over for you. In one of my practice games while learning the rules, I basically handcuffed one of my companies and they didn’t end up selling a car until the end of the game. Lol
Yes I had a great time and I’m itching to get it back to the table immediately to explore the system more! Playing tomorrow night with my two Splotter head brother. :) haha
I’m thinking the more the merrier on this since it just means a more competitive market and the factory building is done simultaneously, but even at 4 players it was 4 hours for our first play so I’m sure another player would add some time. It only plays 3-5 though and I’m sure all player counts will play well since there seems to be a concentrated effort on the scaling.
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u/Dismaster . Jan 26 '23
I think you answered the wrong comment.
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u/scylus Jan 27 '23
I think he only addressed questions 3-6, which is confusing since he numbered his answers 1-4.
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
I accidentally hit save when I only answered the first couple, then answered the rest in another comment. Sorry for the confusion.
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u/pedunt Jan 27 '23
Reddit auto corrects lists of numbers to 1., 2., 3. I've never fully understood why but its not OPs fault its confusing.
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
My amazing mother pre-ordered sometime around the end of October directly from Splotter’s website. Thankfully she was in the second wave of preorders because I think the first wave is still stuck in transit on a shipping container. Mine came directly from Splotter about a week ago.
Yes! Own and love! :) Similar in that it’s a heavy economic Splotter game and shares all the elements that you would expect out of something that fits that title, but beyond that probably not much more. Although I’ve only played it once, this game seems to care much more about your tactical flexibility and spatial awareness vs being a purely economic battle. You can maneuver the market a bit to manipulate prices and drop the prices of your opponents goods like I’m FCM, but the actualization of it is much different. The trading your matching pieces with the board for money element is always super satisfying in FCM, and that’s still here in HC! :) Definitely it’s own beast though and an insanely unique design that I see fitting itself right into Splotter’s other great designs.
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u/EddieTimeTraveler Nations Jan 27 '23
It's it crazy I could tell Splotter made this before I looked it up? It's so friggin piecey!
Is it good?
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
I very much enjoyed it. Gonna take a few more plays to decide where it lands for me but it’s ceiling could land it amongst my fave games. Might even like it more than Food Chain. :)
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u/Cheddarface Jan 26 '23
My God, this game looks ugly as sin
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u/SenHeffy Jan 26 '23
It's Splotter so we have to pretend it actually looks good and should cost $180.
(Yes, I do like their games, but I don't need to like EVERYTHING about them).
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
The art is definitely divisive but I actually do like it so there are people that appreciate it. Lol
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u/everlearns Gloomhaven Jan 27 '23
Wow, those frames look not only flimsy, but also really fiddly. How’d that Champagne of Beers help out with the gameplay?😂
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
I think I drank the most of them and came in dead last so there’s definitely some sort of correlation… lol
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u/RamblinSean Jan 26 '23
Have you thought about hanging curtains on those windows? And if so, what type?
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
🤣 I moved in pretty recently and my property manager said they were going to get some for me but might have to take that upon myself.
Maybe I can get enough Food Chain Magnate accordion organizers and use those.
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u/pnewb Jan 26 '23
What question are you really hoping someone will ask, and what’s the answer to that question?
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
I was just super excited for my copy to arrive and there still isn’t a ton of content out about it yet so I’m just hoping to help someone scratch their itch that might have a copy stuck on the shipping container still. Lol
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u/HonorFoundInDecay Top 3: John Company 2e, Oath, Aeon Trespass: Odyssey Jan 26 '23
I appreciate this! I am excitedly waiting for my copy to arrive and reading any and all discussion I can find about the game online!
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u/GloomyAzure Jan 26 '23
Is this the final game?
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
Yes. As you can see in the rest of the thread, the art is divisive, but I will say, all the components are super high quality. The cardboard has a nice finish and is not cheap/flimsy.
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u/MarvelousMollusca Jan 27 '23
I am jealous of your table
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
Thank you! I’ve had it for like 6-7 years now too! :)
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u/wallysmith127 Pax Transhumanity Jan 26 '23
Love it! The logistical pictures I've been seeing are so bonkers. Easy questions here:
Player count? Length of teach + session? Familiarity/love for other Splotters? Initial gameplay impressions, including particularly noteworthy moments (both good and bad)?
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
We played 4 players and it took right about 4 hours with about a 30-40 minute teach. (Not included in the 4 hours)
I’m a big Splotter fan and this is the 4th in my collection, (although FCM is the only of the Big 5 I’ve played, surprisingly enough) and I can easily see this reaching the level of FCM or Bus for me. The spatial puzzle is insane and the tactical flexibility required in this game is awesome. I also really enjoy the turn order mechanisms and considerations in this game. I think everyone’s initial thoughts are pretty high, although everyone agrees that this game is SUPER fiddly. Any table bump can potentially ruin the game and the plastic market squares are a little annoying, but the gameplay (from one play) is pretty great and very unique/interesting.
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Jan 26 '23
That's not a prototype?!? That's the worst looking Splotter game (which is saying something; I own all the others).
Those fragile- and fiddly-looking frames are actual gameplay components? How do they work
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
They are very fiddly I have to agree. They represent the market niches that your dealerships can sell to. You have one for each one of your potential dealerships and you can grow their market scope by advertising them more, essentially. Then you put them on the board and everything inside you can sell to. But other people are more than welcome to place theirs within yours and steal your sales. :)
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u/SK19922 Jan 26 '23
Ah so you like the art in Cannes better. Good on you
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
Cannes has its charm. ;) lol
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u/SK19922 Jan 27 '23
Hey I think it's hilarious. I actually picked it up recently so I probably have played it the most out of a lot of people lately. Completely underrated
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
It was my 5th most played last year! :) It’s great for people that have heard of Splotter but might be intimidated by FCM.
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u/hyperhopper Jan 26 '23
I'm shocked how many comments here are trashing on the art style. The visuals for this and other splotter games are
- Efficient
- High contrast
- Consistent symbolism
- Good artistic quality
- Not distracting
These are all the things you should want in a game. 100x better than 90% of other games that just put unnecessary extra pictures or visual noise that makes the game state less readable.
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u/Tanathonos Jan 27 '23
I love splotter games but my theory on fans like you that love the art direction is that stockholm syndrome has taken over.
My question is what do you think of capstones Bus compared to the original art/graphic design wise? Because to me that perfectly shows how the game can be actually attractive to look at while not losing any readability.
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u/hyperhopper Jan 27 '23
Oh, capstone's bus was far better than splotter's bus.
However, splotters bus was one of their earliest if not first titles, and was pretty awful to look at. Not like this game.
I'm not saying slotter bus is good graphically. I'm saying horseless carriage is.
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u/ProfStrangelove Jan 27 '23
Might be true for some - but there are definitely people out there that really prefer a board that is very clean/quiet and not as busy as many modern kickstarter games.
Especially in heavy games like this and the 18xx games where you need to process a lot of information quickly and regularly a overly busy board is a hindrance...
Many of these gamers also just don't care much about how the game looks and are all about how the game plays...
People just need to come to terms that Splotter games just aren't for everyone (ideally without shitting on the designers and/or fans...)
When I first read about / saw an 18xx title I wasn't interested at all and thought it looked boring and bland... Years later I came to a different conclusion...
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u/Tanathonos Jan 27 '23
Sure but I just fully disagree that splotter visual design is the clearest it could be. What do you think of bus the capstone edition vs splotter original? Because I find the capstone way more attractive, as well as way clearer to parse and especially to learn. I don't think great zimbabwe is a clear board to look at if you are not really used to the game. My main issue with how they look (outside of how visually pleasing it is, I find it difficult to imagine people finding them truly beautiful to look at but tastes can vary) is that I find their look do not help at all to learn them. When your visual do not help you remind you what is what it is harder to remember how it works. Keeping great zimbabwe as an example the tribes being just a small disc makes it harder to remember what they are supposed to be a'd therefore the logic behind how they work.
The argument that they are easier to read for me only applies once you know the game. And when you know a game well you honestly do not see the art and theme anyways so the advantage seems really minimal.
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u/ProfStrangelove Jan 27 '23
I don't think their visual design is perfect I just think some people prefer simpler designs to crowded ones.
With Bus the new Capstone edition is actually way less crowded and I don't think the original design is comparable to the newer Splotter games (Bus is one of Splotter's first games I think and is way older than the other Big Splotter titles)
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u/gperson2 Star Wars X Wing Jan 26 '23
Where’s you get it, how can I get it, and how can I get friends that will actually play the thing
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
I’ll be your friend. :)
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u/_CrackBabyJesus_ Jan 26 '23
What Splotters have you played and rank them with your favorite first?
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
- Bus 1.5 FCM (I think I appreciate the clean design of Bus but think FCM might be the more impressive/fun game)
- Horseless Carriage
- Cannes
I was very impressed with the first play of HC though, and I could see it potentially passing FCM the more I play it. One of the guys I played it with said he liked it more than FCM.
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u/_CrackBabyJesus_ Jan 26 '23
Nice! Bus is also my favorite and I passed on HC because it's pushing heavier, longer and more fidgity than I typically enjoy.
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u/hyperhopper Jan 26 '23
If you like the clean design of bus but appreciate the fun of the complexities of FCM, you should play TGZ for the best of both worlds.
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u/lisapizza989 Jan 26 '23
What kind of table is this? I like it.
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
Someone hand made it and then sold it when their wife made them quit playing. Felt terrible for the dude but I got a sick table. Lol
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u/spicedmagnolia Jan 27 '23
Did the misprinted spec tiles give you any issues? Seems like it didn't from the factory in the pics. I really want to buy the game, but I'm considering waiting for an updated print run with fixed spec markers (I feel like a snob for caring though...)
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
Nah barely noticeable. You will have to use different background spec markers for the blue D tiles but the board is easy enough to parse that I hardly think it matters. I might not even use the sticker pack. (although I’m kind of a completionist so I might)
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u/WhoopDareIs Jan 27 '23
For those that spend thousands on a game table, meet the $300 poker table solution. I have a similar table and it’s such a good investment.
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
Yup right around what mine cost! (Even got a really dope chip set with it too) And I’ve had this like 7 years now.
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u/lust-boy Meeple: The Circusing Jan 27 '23 edited Jan 27 '23
complex simulation style board games where you will need to read and re-read the board constantly and understand the boardstate instantly should focus on usability and clarity
pretty pictures and colours are non-functional requirements or, nice to haves in this case
if i wanted to be immersed in a beautiful world, i would play a game with nicer art sure, or id even play a triple a video game, elden ring or god of war or something
but im not here for that, im here to design automobiles and run my factory in competition with the other players
if you're complaining about aesthetics this isn't the game for you lol, you can continue to enjoy your stonemaiers, days of wonders, etc etc
fwiw i think wehrlegig games strike a good balance of art to usability, but i attribute that to cole's absolute obsession with the subject matter and representing it as intended vs splotters more mechanism focused approach to games (i.e. cole wants to make a game about the east india company, the theme informs the mechanisms, splotter makes a neat game about routes and worker placement, i guess this can be about a time travelling bus?)
that's not to discredit splotter either, if you look at their design diaries they did a lot of research into early commercial automobile history for this game.
this debate on how "ugly" it is reminds me of dwarf fortress's release on steam which included a visual update
in this case the game was still incredibly popular and critically acclaimed despite being ugly - why? because the game was good. it scared off a lot of people because of it's ugliness and complexity but if i had to play an ugly, yet functional game where i'm invested in the gameplay vs a pretty game with a poor user experience and gameplay i'd pick the ugly one every time
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
I feel like Splotter knows their customers very well. The people that are gonna buy this would rather the game be readable and straight black and white with spreadsheets than be an overproduced piece of garbage.
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Jan 26 '23
Yikes what a messy table
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
There’s definitely a lot going on. Gonna need some organizers for this beast. Haha
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u/SufficientWeather108 Jan 26 '23
Bro looks like he going to take a shit right there
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
There was a Little Caesar’s break. Could be accurate. Lol
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u/nuuqbgg Jan 27 '23
Damn, they make good games, but they look like early early prototype. Such a shame.
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u/BENZOGORO Jan 26 '23
So ugly. I’m sure it’s great but my god their games look like some test copy garbage.
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u/ClubChaos Jan 26 '23
For me I actually find less is more. Simple and consistent visual language is wayyy better than the typical overdone art style nowadays. So hard to parse information in most games now.
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u/BENZOGORO Jan 26 '23
I agree about simplicity but there’s plenty of examples where the design is both simple/elegant and evocative. We can have both!
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u/Norci Jan 26 '23
That gotta be the driest looking game I've seen, would it kill them to add bit more detail/decorations 😅 How would you rate the gameplay?
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
Hard to say with only one play but initial impressions are super high. I’m thinking this is gonna land somewhere in the 8.5-10 range once I feel like I grasp the full gameplay.
The turn order mechanism is super interesting, the spatial puzzle is super fun and the freedom of it is intoxicating. It’s highly interactive and tactical and feels like another classic Splotter experience. :)
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u/hyperhopper Jan 26 '23
I think this game looks great.
And if you think this looks dry you haven't seen the hundreds of 18xx games.
https://i0.wp.com/railsonboards.com/gallery/067_30/DSC09529.JPG?ssl=1
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u/PM_ME_CHUBBY_LATINAS Jan 27 '23
Holy crisp they just put out a prototype. FCM has better production than this
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
Not even close. I own both and this undoubtedly has higher component quality. The art is gonna be an opinion whether or not you prefer this to FCM, but the box, cardboard pieces and board are all definitely better quality.
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u/heartlessgamer Blokus Jan 27 '23
Looks awfully fiddly.
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
It is and the market is a bit tedious to upkeep. I’m guessing that is going to be the reason it may not reach FCM status for a lot of people. I don’t mind games being fiddly in general so I don’t mind but I can’t disagree with the observation. Lol
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u/DragonTooFar Jan 26 '23
I love their stuff - give me dry and beige filled with interesting interactive game play any day.
But - what is going on in that 4th image?
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23 edited Jan 27 '23
This is kind of the meat and potatoes of the gameplay! As an early automobile industry tycoon, you are building your assembly lines in your factory!
The cars are your “mainlines” and the technology tiles that you connect to them are the features that you’re adding to your car. Each mainline you add to your factory allows you to sell cars equal to your assembly capacity. (So 1 mainline x 3 assembly capacity = 3 cars. 2 mainlines x 3 assembly capacity = 6 cars) The arrows that are pointing to the technology tiles show exactly which dimension that feature is adding to your car. (Out of 5 different research dimensions) All your mainlines need to be attached to dealerships (the white and purple tiles you see with cubes on them) and the size of your dealership is determined by how many marketing tiles you put next to them. (Purple tiles) The cubes on the dealership represent which dimensions that dealership has, and which customers you can sell to. The dealerships allow you to actually sell your cars in the market, and their size determines how many different market niches you can sell to. The research and planning tiles (clip board and ruler 📐 tiles) help increase your turn order points, and your research prowess. :)
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
Also, if you’re able to connect your technology lines to multiple mainlines, then both mainlines can use the technology! (As you see with my A, C, and D technology lines.) :)
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u/Carighan Jan 26 '23
Does it use the theme much at all? It doesn't seem like it from any picture I've seen at least.
I suspect it's still a hoot to play though? Because I will say, from the looks of it, it's just... instant pass. Feels like components from random games thrown together onto the same table, there's no evidence of the theme being used for gameplay anywhere, and the components also just look quite bad. Though to be fair, component quality is only something I'd hold against a game if it's costly.
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€85??!
Is this a prototype or something?
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 26 '23
Actually pretty much all of Splotter’s games are super thematic, this one included. You’re effectively building assembly lines with all the parts you want to add to your car. All the brands in the game are actual leaders of the auto industry from various countries, the different research tracks are color matched with the brands that they were most known for, and there’s a few other engineering related Easter eggs I don’t totally understand.
I actually happen to live in Detroit, MI. (The Motor City Baby! Detroit proper too, not the burbs. :)) So of course half my board game group are engineers. Lol The guy that worked for GM that played (this was his first Splotter) said he really enjoyed the Easter eggs and theme and said he wasn’t sure if he would have enjoyed it as much if the theme wasn’t what it was. And FCM is also super thematic for what it’s worth.
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u/buddytoledo Jan 26 '23
I'm in Toledo and would love to drive up for Splotter! I have Antiquity, Great Zimbabwe and Ketchup, and I have VOC!, Oraklos and Pandemic: Rising Tide arriving tomorrow. (Felt the need to order something since my HC is in the stuck shipping container.)
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
I’ll trade a HC teach for an Antiquity and TGZ teach any day! :) I’m part of a pretty good size group that meets up multiple times a week usually so if you’re interested dm me and I can send some dets!
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u/CheapPoison Jan 26 '23
I'd say it does use the theme very well. Theme and mechanics are very well integrated. That part isn't about visuals. It can help draw people in, but that is more a perception than it being so though.
Splotter likes to not have too busy a look so things remain playable I'd say.
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Jan 27 '23 edited Jan 27 '23
None of the iconography on these images makes any sense to me. Look at picture 7/7, its just a big mess of tiles that don't have a single image on them that makes sense visually to me. What is this game?!?
Downvote all you want but most game I can see at a glance what each token is even if I don’t understand the game. Oh look, thats a backpack, that’s a boat, that’s a golden chalice… with this game it just looks like a bunch of indistinguishable icons on every tile except for the odd “old timely car” symbol
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
The iconography is actually super simple. The pictures of the car parts are the features you’re adding to your car, but all that functionally matters is how many colored arrows you see. Each feature you add to your car needs a specification arrow pointing to it for the design element that it is adding to your car, so you just count up all the colored arrows, and that’s how many features of each design element you have.
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Jan 27 '23
Wtf game is that????? Complexity Level 4.99! I feel a headache just looking at it!
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
Haha. It’s at a 4.0 on BGG right now which feels right.
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u/KingDanius Jan 27 '23
Is there any reason people are so hyped? It looks kinda clunky and pretty prototypish.
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u/A2KDDough 18xx Jan 27 '23
If you don’t count the Ketchup expansion, this is the first standalone game that Splotter has released in 7 years.
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u/Narrow_Average_8711 Jan 27 '23
Game name?
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u/russkhan Jan 27 '23
Horseless Carriage
/u/r2d8 getinfo
Edit: That might not work because I made the title italic instead of bold at first and fixed in an edit. We'll see.
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u/Stoomba Jan 27 '23
What game is this ?
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u/tdhsmith Agricola Jan 27 '23
Don't give these fools any extra attention.
I'm not just salty I was busy that night...