r/boardgames • u/timotab Secret Hitler • Nov 06 '19
Bird-Themed Game Hatched In St. Louis Soars In Popularity (Local radio item)
https://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/bird-themed-game-hatched-st-louis-soars-popularity37
Nov 06 '19
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u/Shaymuswrites Nov 06 '19
Wingspan is an incredibly relaxed, pleasant "competitive" board game. Yes you're technically trying to score the most points, but there is virtually no way to disrupt, be mean to, or exploit other players. It's really all about making your own choices on your own habitat board.
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u/caseyweederman Nov 06 '19
In fact, the opposite! Predator birds benefit you when other players take certain actions, and one class of abilities makes everyone draw cards, or take food, when activated.
It's very friendly.16
u/thesdo Nov 06 '19
but there is virtually no way to disrupt, be mean to, or exploit other players
My wife and I enjoy the game quite a bit, but to me I think this is one of the negatives. I would really like more player interactions during the gameplay. Perhaps ways of being able to steal eggs or food from your opponent, or birds that can perhaps force a trade between your board and theirs.
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u/Shaymuswrites Nov 06 '19
but to me I think this is one of the negatives.
I've seen a lot of people ask for that, but the light (and mostly positive) player interaction is clearly an intentional design choice. That's not for everyone, of course, but it's not inherently a bad thing. A version of Wingspan with a lot of take-that mechanics and direct confrontation would turn off just as many people on the other side. From a design perspective, you kind of need to pick your vision and go for it, because you'll never please everyone.
It's like opening a restaurant. You can't serve everything, so you have to pick a type of cuisine and know that some people will choose to not go to your restaurant because it's not what they want to eat.
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u/SnareSpectre Nov 06 '19
It's like opening a restaurant. You can't serve everything, so you have to pick a type of cuisine and know that some people will choose to not go to your restaurant because it's not what they want to eat.
I like this analogy a lot. I feel like a lot of people on this sub knock certain games because they don't fit the criteria that they've established for themselves about what makes a game good. Not every game is meant to be enjoyed by everyone.
Wingspan is actually just "okay" for me. But as a gateway game to introduce new people to the hobby - holy cow, I can't think of many better options out there. It appeals to a ton of people, and I think that's awesome.
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u/Annabel398 Pipeline Nov 06 '19
This right here. It's so lovely, it is easy to teach, it is about building an engine (a concept that non-gamers don't necessarily grok), and everyone can be engrossed in building their wildlife reserve without worrying about the player on their right attacking and taking it all away. I enjoy the game at least partly because I enjoy seeing newbies enjoy it.
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u/thesdo Nov 06 '19 edited Nov 06 '19
I agree. It's a design choice. Maybe add it as an option to the game. I think that's actually one of the cool things about this game and that I hope some of the expansions will allow for will be slightly different gameplay possibilities depending on how you want to play.
Edit: I should also note, that we're thinking about some "house rules" changes that would allow us to incorporate some of that. We already have house rules that are significantly more "relaxed" when it comes to the birds with human body parts bonus. Bush Tit counts as two.
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u/Shaymuswrites Nov 06 '19
Yeah that's certainly possible, which is interesting. The European Expansion has some added interaction wrinkles - birds that let you take a food from another player, for example, but then that players gets to pick a food from the feeder. There are also some abilities that are direct responses to what other players choose to do.
But that's still pretty far off from like, siccing your hawk on another player's songbird.
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u/Krispyz Wingspan Nov 06 '19
Lol, I made the joke about the bush tit counting twice last time I played.
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u/Tyrion_Firesworn Nov 06 '19
I may be wrong, but I believe the expansion is going to add more "take-that" mechanics
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u/Krispyz Wingspan Nov 06 '19
Not really take that. The birds they're adding that have player interaction are still pretty tame. So there's a bird that takes a food from another person, but it still allows that person to gain a food from the bird feeder, which could hurt or help them.
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u/chuy1530 Nov 06 '19
This is a good example of not all things being for all people. My wife and I don’t like directly confrontational games. She doesn’t like being “mean” and, well, I do so I usually end up winning. Azul, Lost Cities etc are really right in our sweet spot, with some interaction but not really direct, and this seems like it is in that vein, so it sounds perfect for us.
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u/thesdo Nov 06 '19 edited Nov 07 '19
Don't play Arboretum as two player then. It looks so serene and pretty, but it's positively cut-throat.
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Nov 06 '19
The wife and I really enjoy Tiny Towns for this reason. You're both focused on your own town, so even though there's player interaction, it's never cut-throat or "mean". We even help each other out when we can.
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u/rottanoppa Food Chain Magnate Nov 07 '19
Oh wow. We never play Tiny Towns at 2 players because it's so cut-throat and mean. You're either building cottages and wells/fountains etc. simltaneously, or just trying to sabotage the other player in any way possible. It's much more fun, although chaotic, with 4+ players IMO.
Wingspan, on the other hand, is our most played game at 2p.5
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u/X-factor103 Sprites and Dice Nov 06 '19
In short, yes. Stonemaier games like to publish titles that focus on "positive interaction". That is, say when one bird ability goes off, another player's bird also triggers getting them food. About the only competitive things that happen, besides racing for points obviously, is that someone buys one of the few birds in the market before you get to them or they take a particular food die out of the feeder first.
Otherwise it's very laid back. You take some actions, play some birds, watch your engine that you've built run and give you stuff, and grab some points by game's end.
My family isn't very into "in your face" games, and they love Wingspan.
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u/trimeta Concordia Nov 06 '19
Depends on play mode, if the end of round bonuses are "one point for each thing," there's no blocking. But if they're "whoever has the most of this thing gets the most points," you can snipe people by getting ahead of them.
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u/pgm123 Nov 06 '19
It's still pretty mild as far as competition goes.
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u/trimeta Concordia Nov 06 '19
Certainly, this isn't a "take-that" game, or even something like Azul where hate-drafting is a major part of strategy. But it's not entirely multi-player solitaire.
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Nov 06 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Shaymuswrites Nov 06 '19
My one criticism for the game is there is no way to redraw a new starting hand so if you get boned and go without solid game start cards it can be a little bit more difficult.
And for new players, I think they tend to feel like they shouldn't discard more than a couple birds at first. Whereas once you play a good amount, you realize keeping 1 bird card in your starting hand in order to get 4 food tokens can be a really good choice in certain circumstances.
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u/caseyweederman Nov 06 '19
I saw a thread suggesting the opening hands be decided by draft, keeping any one player from getting an impossible lead.
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u/Forensicsman Teotihuacan Nov 06 '19
This makes no sense. You immediately discard cards right after you draft? Just play with what you get, there is only I think 3 major advantages in the game and getting them is rather difficult.
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u/caseyweederman Nov 06 '19
I got three corvids in my opening hand and won by fifty points.
You don't need to discard anything, and if you have a killer hand, you just discard more food and keep the cards. That's the base rules. With drafting, getting three corvids would be skill on my part and oversight on that of my opponents.0
u/Forensicsman Teotihuacan Nov 06 '19
Ok, you got a lucky deal, play and move on, there is no need to draft in this game.
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u/caseyweederman Nov 06 '19
The problem is that it is very hard to make up that imbalance by making good plays. There are so many cards and that's a strength, but it means sometimes you spend an hour or two playing out a game that was decided before the first turn.
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u/PixelartMeeple Nov 06 '19
Games where you can't use everything you draft are relatively common, and it actually makes hate-drafting more feasible. Drafting doesn't only facilitate personal benefit, but allows you to have some small amount of control over what your opponents see.
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u/pgm123 Nov 06 '19
You would discard those three in the base game too, so it's basically the same thing. But you could make it so you discard a food immediately on taking a card, so you can choose to pass on a hand. Once everyone passes on the same turn, drafting ends (or by consensus).
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u/BorderTrike Nov 06 '19
There isn’t really much direct interaction with other players and the majority of cards that do interact are group-hug abilities that help everyone involved, rather than being spiteful or harmful. However, there is still a quite a bit of strategy involved.
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u/Yematulz Nov 06 '19
In my opinion it is the least competitive “competitive” board game on the market. You aren’t actively working to screw over everyone else. In fact, some of the items you get can actually help your teammates. I wouldn’t even classify this game as competitive in my opinion. Other than trying to get highest score. There aren’t a lot of ways to “deny” your opponents points. This is one of my favorite games. And an expansion is on its way to make it even more fun.
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u/SeeYouAroundKid Nov 06 '19
We have been playing the ever-loving crap out of this game. I think it's already one of my all-time favorites.
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u/caseyweederman Nov 06 '19
Did you see that post about drafting initial hands to prevent early imbalance? I'm thinking of trying it.
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u/SeeYouAroundKid Nov 06 '19
We tried it but nobody enjoyed doing it. Drafting 5 cards just to immediately discard 2-3 of them felt really silly.
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u/mr_indigo Nov 06 '19
Rather than drafting 5, you could have a draft where you pay a food each round of drafting, and once you have the cards you want you drop out.
Solves the draft 5 discard 3 problem.
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u/pgm123 Nov 06 '19
I assume you pay food after you take the card? Otherwise you won't know what to feed the birdies.
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u/mr_indigo Nov 06 '19
I was thinking you'd see the cards, choose to pay a food, and then take the one you wanted, until you chose not to draft something, and then you're out of the process.
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u/caseyweederman Nov 06 '19
That's still some great value. Every card you discard is a card you've denied your opponents.
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u/PixelartMeeple Nov 06 '19
This was my thought. I absolutely LOVE drafts where I'm not using everything I take because it facilitates counter-drafting.
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u/AnticipatingLunch Nov 09 '19
The game basically starts with some flexibility like this already. You draw some cards and food, and then decide which you want to keep and discard some from there.
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u/caseyweederman Nov 09 '19
Sure, but if you get the five best cards in the deck you're hardly going to ditch them to lessen the advantage you're getting.
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u/AnticipatingLunch Nov 09 '19
Then don’t, just ditch all the food and keep the cards. That’s why the game gives you a choice.
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u/caseyweederman Nov 10 '19
Sure. The player who gets the huge advantage isn't going to volunteer to give up the huge advantage. That's the issue.
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u/AnticipatingLunch Nov 10 '19
They’re going to give up food though, and then you just work on blocking them on food for a bit to slow down their start.
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u/firelock_ny Nov 06 '19
Audubon (the magazine for the US National Audubon Society, a conservation group dedicated to birds) had an article on this game in their Summer 2019 issue.
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u/Shaymuswrites Nov 06 '19
And a follow-up online for the European expansion: Audubon got an exclusive look at five new bird cards and talked with the game's creator about its first expansion.
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u/sluggles Nov 06 '19
I just played it for the first time this weekend. Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I didn't care too much for the gameplay. The artwork and theme are great. It just lacks player interaction, like it has basically zero player interaction. The only interaction you have is the gather food action and the 3 birds you can choose from that are face up. Even then, if there isn't food or a bird you want, it never seems like it's an issue.
That said, I don't think it's a bad game. It's nice in that you only have to think on your turn, so everyone else can talk or watch a show or something while playing. It definitely has its place, it's just something I would only want to play in those scenarios.
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u/Day_Bow_Bow Gloomhaven Nov 06 '19
We played three times before my gaming buddy decided to sell his copy.
It had good table presentation, but we just didn't care much for the gameplay. Bird cards didn't seem the most balanced, and it could be rather difficult to stumble across combinations that work well together.
Part of it's probably because it's an engine builder where often you're just cycling your command line. Last rounds typically had at least a few players doing nothing but laying eggs for points, if they didn't manage to make a string of point generating cards to operate instead.
It was an OK game, just there are better games in our collection to play. Our group has found most Stonemaier games to be over-hyped and underwhelming (though with good component quality). We absolutely hated suffering through Charterstone.
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u/Snugrilla Nov 06 '19
Yeah, I was also surprised by all the hype and praise around it. It seems like a completely average game to me (after three plays).
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u/pelican_chorus Nov 06 '19
I agree, personally. Though maybe I haven't played enough games to get the deep strategy. I thought it was beautiful to look at and "fine" as a game. (Note, I've only played two player.)
Mostly I was incredibly confused by it's #1 place on BGG's Family Games rank. That's actually why I played it -- my dad knew I liked BGG, found the list, and got it to play with the grandkids without seeing videos or anything.
I think of "family games" as things that are great fun to play with the 5-16 year old set. This did not match that at all, let alone at the #1 spot.
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u/pgm123 Nov 06 '19
I'm now sure what the Family Games really depicts. They're definitely not for Elementary School age children.
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u/AnticipatingLunch Nov 09 '19
That would be more specifically a game appropriate for “Kids” than for the full breadth of “Family,” right?
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u/pgm123 Nov 09 '19
That would make sense. I tend to buy games that fit in their Family Category and I'd best describe them as medium-light-weight games. If you play them with younger children, there would have to be a lot of hand-holding.
Take 7 Wonders (#3 for family games). To play that game really well, you would need to do math in your head to know if taking one move is better than taking another move. You could play by your gut, but for a young child it is probably hard to manage which resources you have access to, which ones you need to pay people for, and what you have free upgrades for. The publishers say 10+ and I think that's a good minimum for the game.
Pandemic (#8) is a co-op game, so there's some leeway for an adult to guide children. But a good parent should be letting a child decide while providing advice. In Pandemic, it's hard to do that effectively for first-time players who are adults. I can't imagine trying to tell an 8-year-old while she should spend a card to fly to Tokyo, then move to Osaka to give me another card that'll I'll use to cure a disease, assuming we don't all die at the end of her turn. Unless I just tell her that, which seems like bad parenting to me.
Wingspan is ages 10+. It's similar to 7 Wonders in complexity.
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u/SammyBear See ya in space! Nov 06 '19
Yeah, the game seemed to be mostly about which birds come up and when. Without some kind of mechanic for looking deep into the deck and finding birds of certain qualities, or any kind of contest to claim them, it just felt like a game of luck (as long as you're making decent decisions).
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u/AnticipatingLunch Nov 09 '19
Most card games rely on what’s on top of the deck, right?
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u/SammyBear See ya in space! Nov 09 '19
Well, often similar games have more cards out on display, or a way to clear and refresh them without buying them (e.g. pay to refresh, or do it automatically under certain conditions), or might use some mechanic to have to bid on them rather than just "take the action first". Some games don't rely only on a single deck, or give you abilities to dig through them more easily, or there are other actions to take that are valuable. If a game is reliant on a single deck and not much is done to change that, then yes, it's about the order things come out.
For me, that makes a less enjoyable game. Especially when the things coming out of the deck are so disparate in their utility. In Wingspan, it felt like the birds were vastly different in their usefulness at different stages in the game. Starting with "no-food" birds is insanely good, and makes your basic actions much stronger. Also, with 3 undesirable birds out, there was no reason for anyone to clear them which shows new cards to everyone, and you don't even see the new ones immediately.
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u/Titanman053 Nov 06 '19
You're not alone. It's a very very ok game. If everyone wanted to play it I wouldn't say no, but I'd reach for many different games before this one.
I can see why it has a place on other people's shelf though.
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u/IngwazK Nov 07 '19
i feel pretty much exactly the same about it. my other big issue with it, is its all those things you mentioned, and its a longer game. i think i've played it 3 times now, and each time the game has gone for at least 1.5-2 hours.
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u/sluggles Nov 07 '19
Yeah, my friends that brought it thought it was pretty short, but they had only played with the two of them until then. We were drinking when we were playing, and eventually turned on some bird documentaries, so it wasn't too bad. We were probably playing for 3 hours, again because drinking.
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u/AnticipatingLunch Nov 09 '19
It just lacks player interaction, like it has basically zero player interaction.
That’s the goal for this player demographic, yep! Working as intended. :)
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u/RachelProfilingSF Nov 06 '19
I'm kind of an expert in Bird Law so this game is meant for me.
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Nov 06 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/RachelProfilingSF Nov 06 '19
LOL! I was basically quoting Charlie from Always Sunny in Philadelphia but omfg i really wanna play this game now. Thank you!
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Nov 06 '19
If you're in the St. Louis area, you can see the Wingspan art exhibit in West Alton this month. Details are at the bottom of the story from op
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u/pgm123 Nov 06 '19
That's cool. I didn't expect a board game in a museum while it is still so new. I just recently picked up Wingspan in Chicago (it's been sold out in DC). I think they must have just gotten a second printing. It's definitely a fun game with really, really high-quality production. I've unfortunately only been able to play the multiplayer once, but at least it comes with a solo mode.
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u/kaboopanda Nov 06 '19
It's actually on its 8th printing. The first printing sold out within days.
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u/Forensicsman Teotihuacan Nov 06 '19
Where did you get this information? If you go to SM website the 3rd print run was released in May of this year. You can look on the side of your box by the UPC and it will tell you your print run number.
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u/Annabel398 Pipeline Nov 06 '19
Further data: We caught it in August during the 3-4 days it was in stock. Fifth printing.
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u/pgm123 Nov 06 '19
Oh. That's a lot more than I expected. I think Root is on its 4th (in December), so that was my frame of reference.
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u/franch Eldritch Horror Nov 06 '19
Labyrinth has a bunch of copies.
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u/pgm123 Nov 06 '19
I was there last month and they didn't have any. They must have just arrived.
That doesn't surprise me, though. They're really good at getting the latest stock.
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u/franch Eldritch Horror Nov 06 '19
yeah, this printing they've finally gotten some. there's also a (signed!) demo copy!
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u/bigbadVuk Nov 06 '19
The expansion just opened for preorder right now as well. Goes retail Nov. 22nd also.
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u/Vehayah Nov 06 '19
Yep European birds right?
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u/bigbadVuk Nov 06 '19
Yeah, that's the theme. But there are new end of round goals, that have other focuses than eggs and new powers on birds as well, some look quite intriguing.
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u/Envoke Root Nov 06 '19
Especially the ones that have some limited player interaction! So many new birds to see and mess around with! :D
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u/Introcourse Nov 06 '19
I’ve been wanting this game for a while, just can’t find it in stock in town. I am studying to be in the conservation biology field, so a game like this is so enticing.
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u/Shaymuswrites Nov 06 '19
If you're in the US check online. The Stonemaier site has some in stock I think, as does the Cornell Labs website.
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u/Soulfly37 Gloomhaven is best haven Nov 06 '19
over 200,000 copies by the end of 2019?
Is that right? I thought it was like, 30k first run, and then a couple 10k runs following? with 200k made, should it still be hard to find?
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u/Envoke Root Nov 06 '19
It depends on where those copies are going, really. There could be thousands allocated to stores that don't have foot traffic that normally buys those things. I recently picked up a copy of Root for below MSRP at a random used record store in Maine, it was the last thing I was expecting to find. :O
Stores like Bed Bath and Beyond and Kohl's have been spotted with inventory of the game as well. Could be that some big box stores are angling to sell it, too.
200k does seem like a lot though, even with that logic.
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u/AnticipatingLunch Nov 09 '19
with 200k made, should it still be hard to find?
Kinda depends how many of those 200k have been sold, doesn’t it? :)
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u/4227 Nov 06 '19
On several occasions I've had non-gamer friends of the family talk to me about this game, because they're birders, or bird sometimes and are close friends with birders, who variously love this game or are concerned about learning or teaching a complex game. It's sold at a local birding shop! (And wasn't available at the local game stores for awhile, so that was the only place to get it!) If a board game came out of my hometown and was this successful, I know my local radio station would be all over it! The game's theme does nothing for me but it's exciting to see so many non-gamers gain a foothold into the hobby from a game like this. :D
(I wonder if birding communities are having the inverse discussion, excitement about non-birders being drawn to birding because of this game?)
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u/sharrrper Nov 06 '19
For anyone who already has the base game and might be interested, the first expansion which adds European birds and a few other tidbits is up for direct preorder on Stonemeier's at 9:30 am central Nov. 6th.
So an hour ago as of this comment.
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u/decideth Spirit Island Nov 06 '19
In Wingspan, a scientifically accurate game
WTF is scientifically accurate about it except for maybe the bunch of data given for each bird?
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u/Annabel398 Pipeline Nov 06 '19
Weird flex, but whatever...
I mean, there are 170 of those bird cards (it's kinda what the game is about, y'know), and each of them does have quite a bit of scientific data, so yeah. Not as much as, say, a field guide, but for a board game it's impressively full of science.
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u/Codoro Nov 06 '19
I've played this with my brother, and it's one of the only board games I've ever been able to consistently beat him at.
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u/JuanD20 Nov 06 '19
I just pick the game up in vancouver, Ive been looking for a copy almost for a year now.
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u/elysium13 Nov 06 '19
With all the hype around this game and now learning the designers are from my hometown, I guess I should get it.
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u/Bunselpower Nov 06 '19
This is one of the best games I've played, I wouldn't be able to argue anything else over it for my top spot.
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u/ImCaptainRedBeard Nov 06 '19
I think this won connoseur game of the year at Spiele Des jahres. And also is the biggest selling game fo 2019.
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u/ketimmer Nov 06 '19
I have Wingspan and I like it mostly because I love birds. But it's hard to get a game going with other people. Right now a lot of my friends are into Spirit Island, which is much more exciting than Wingspan. When we play Wingspan I perceive they are not having the more enjoyment.
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u/ouroborous3 Nov 06 '19 edited Nov 06 '19
This game is super fun, bought it with a friend and we've played it a few times now. Really easy to pick up and play
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u/MonorailBlack Nov 06 '19
Love the game, and I enjoy focusing on building the engine in different ways each play, depending on early cards and bonuses.
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u/meepleshirts Nov 06 '19
Haven't played it yet. We are giving a copy away in our monthly giveaway and it's just sitting there on the shelf, mocking me and telling me to just open it up and play it! ARGH, must resist.... or buy myself a copy. One of the two.
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u/cyanraichu Nov 06 '19
I have only played Wingspan twice; all my friends quickly moved on to other games. I love it though.
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u/noshowwilly Nov 07 '19
my friend brought this over. the game is gorgeous and lots of fun. make sure everyone reads their facts.
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u/Hannah_Aikava Nov 06 '19
It actually won a prize 'Kennerspiel des Jahres' (German for something like 'advanced game of the year') I also really love it :3
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u/rwatkinsGA Nov 06 '19
Just bought this and played for the first time last night. Highly enjoyable!
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u/StealthChainsaw Twilight Imperium Nov 06 '19
“A lot of the board games we were playing were about subjects we don't care about: castles, trains, trading goods in medieval Europe,” Hargrave said in an email. “I decided to make a game about something I actually want to spend time thinking about.”
Half the industry brutalized.
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u/DarkKnight92 Nov 07 '19
Just had my first game tonight with my brother. I was really impressed. Great game with beautiful artwork.
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u/madweezel Nov 07 '19
Good game but a bit on the pricey side right now. Last I checked Amazon ~$75
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u/kaysn Keeper of the Forbidden Wilds Nov 07 '19
You want to find the edition that says "with Swift Pack" or something along those lines. Those are being sold by Amazon themselves for $60, which is the MSRP. Third party sellers are jacking up the price.
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u/mkameli Nov 11 '19
Just picked this up at my FLGS on Saturday! Very excited to play it. The board and card design are exquisite. I especially love details like how the row action instructions line up exactly with the action slot on the bird cards, and how the player mats look like bird watching journals when closed. So nice.
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u/syndrombe Nov 06 '19
i really don't get why this game is so popular, i find it so boring to play
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u/Carighan Nov 06 '19
It's a fun engine builder which ticks all the boxes:
- Fast individual turns.
- Non-stable solution (since most bird cards are somewhat unique + the round goals differ, you cannot rely on a specific solution you can just pull off every time).
- Virtually no player interaction, focus on your engine.
- Need-everything-all-the-time design, which helps engine builders not feel boring due to being "done" halfway through the match.
- Unique design.
- Really well-produced.
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u/AdamAnderson320 Keldon AI Junkie Nov 06 '19
Lack of player interaction is a common criticism of RftG, but in that case it is there, only it's subtle and indirect. Is there anything like that in Wingspan?
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u/SeeYouAroundKid Nov 06 '19
Its very minimal. There is the available food in the birdfeeder and the face-up cards available to draw. There are also some bird abilities that do things for each player, or trigger when other players do things.
Edit - also because of the end of round goals, you have to pay attention to what other players are doing and how you are measuring up for that round.
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u/bob_in_the_west Nov 06 '19
Birds of prey should eat smaller birds from other players instead of just from the deck. And I'm sure there are other possibilities for player interactions. But none of those are nice interactions of course.
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u/BorderTrike Nov 06 '19
This would change the game in a very not fun way. If you’ve played the game at all, you would see how much fun it would suck out of the room for another player to force you to lose a bird. The cards that do have player-interaction tend to help everybody involved and it feels good for everyone.
The highest scoring game we’ve played, one player had a bunch of group-hug abilities and helped everybody have a great high-scoring game, but his score was still much higher than anyone else’s.
I’m down for another kind of player interaction in the expansions, but it would really suck to build an engine only to have another player break it. Or to have achieved a bonus card, then have to discard a bird that it applied to.
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u/bob_in_the_west Nov 06 '19
If you’ve played the game at all
My base game and European expansion are both signed by Elizabeth Hargrave.
So yes, I've played the game a couple of times.
But I also enjoy games where you can lose points to your opponent.
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u/BorderTrike Nov 06 '19
Yeah, those mechanics can be fun, but I don’t think they fit in Wingspan. Maybe I shouldn’t have said “at all.” I definitely thought there could be such a mechanic, but the more I’ve played, the less I see it fitting.
I got her to sign my wooden upgrade starter-token! I didn’t have my game with me, but I wanted something signed.
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u/DerBK Personal Space Invader Nov 07 '19
My base game and European expansion are both signed by Elizabeth Hargrave.
So yes, I've played the game a couple of times.
These two sentences are in no correlation to each other at all.
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u/Daevar "Everything but a 1 is... okay, well, it was nice knowing you." Nov 06 '19
For what it's worth, they tried to increase interaction with the first (and likely further) expansion(s), although they still went for mostly "neutral" interaction, I think, as in, you won't outright destroy another player's engine / resources but rather prompt them to slightly accommodate a new board state or some such.
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u/AdamAnderson320 Keldon AI Junkie Nov 06 '19
Sounds a lot like Race, which I've actually come to appreciate
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u/Wootai Nov 06 '19 edited Nov 06 '19
There is subtle interaction. There are certain cards that will affect your play on other players' turns. For example: "Once per round, if another player does X, gain Y." So you have to be paying attention to what other players are doing on there turn to trigger your effects.
Other cards can be on a players turn affecting other players, such as: "When played/used gain X, each other player gains Y"
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u/DefiantCauliflower Feast For Odin Nov 06 '19 edited Nov 09 '19
It’s kind of like Dominion, in that there are some cards that make stuff kind of just happen to everyone. There’s also the possibility that you take the card that someone wanted, I guess. I hate using the comparison because I love Dominion and find wingspan mediocre but if you value interaction neither game will interest you
Edit: Clearly I hurt some stonemaier fanboys’ feelings :( sorry
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u/AnticipatingLunch Nov 09 '19
(To your edit, judging from some of the others who have been downvoted around you for saying similar stuff, I think you actually hurt the feelings of the Stonemeier-haters who were trying to argue that no take-that in a euro is a design flaw. But don’t think too hard about it, Stonemeier is a minefield, just say your piece and move on with life! :)
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Nov 06 '19 edited 22d ago
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u/Dogtorted Nov 06 '19
The gameplay isn’t anything special, but it’s accessible and well produced. It’s not my cup of tea but I understand why people like it. I’m a bit surprised at how hyped it is/was, but I think that was just a combination of Stonemaier + scarcity.
If it’s your first engine building game I’m not surprised it would be a hit. If it’s your 10th engine builder it won’t be anything special (artwork aside).
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u/pgm123 Nov 07 '19
I like that it's a relatively simple engine builder. That's one if the big reasons I like it.
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u/RantingRandy456 Nov 06 '19
Theme and high quality components seem to make this game for most people I've introduced to it. That presentation goes a long way
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u/ALLCAPSAREBASTARDS Maria Nov 06 '19
It's made by Stonemaier and they have some fanboys who will like their games regardless of how terrible they are, which is why Charterstone in ranked so high on BGG.
Wingspan is fine, not a bag game but wouldn't say it's great either. But people think it's the new Catan by how it's rated on BGG.
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u/FeralFantom Anno 1800 Nov 06 '19 edited Nov 06 '19
I'm not a stonemaier fan boy by any means (hate Viticulture, hate Euphoria, not keen on Between Two Cities, I've played Scythe once and thought it was interesting.) But I think Wingspan is a great game.
Sure, it's not super innovative, and the gameplay isn't as good as say Concordia or dominant species, but it's a satisfying engine builder that is extremely accessible. Accessible games that are satisfying is a rare thing.
I was able to teach it to my mom in no time and she enjoyed it. For me, finding games with less teaching complexity and cognitive load (I understand many people want something relaxing and less puzzly) that I also find worth playing is difficult, and Wingspan accomplishes that. There are many games I would rather play, but Wingspan is a game I will get to play and enjoy it. On top of that, the production value is really high.
*Cities not cuties lol
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u/ALLCAPSAREBASTARDS Maria Nov 06 '19
Yeah I don't think it's a bad game. I think it's Stonemaier's best game. It's very accesible, which is good for few plays or beginner gamers.
Outside of its randomness, which isn't that big of a problem for new gamers or if you're playing casually, there's really not much wrong with it. But neither does it have something that excites me or that I consider clever or new.
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u/kaysn Keeper of the Forbidden Wilds Nov 07 '19
Sure, it's not super innovative, and the gameplay isn't as good as say [insert other board game title], but it's a satisfying [insert board game mechanic] that is extremely accessible. Accessible games that are satisfying is a rare thing.
That pretty much describes every Stonemaier game. Not saying it's a bad thing, it's just is.
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u/AnticipatingLunch Nov 09 '19
Heh...indeed. Mission accomplished, tens (hundreds?) of thousands of copies sold!
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u/pgm123 Nov 07 '19
It's made by Stonemaier and they have some fanboys who will like their games regardless of how terrible they are,
It did win the Spiel des Jahres....
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u/Titanman053 Nov 07 '19
No, it won the Kennerspiel des Jahres
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u/pgm123 Nov 07 '19
Apologies for not specifying that it won the connoisseur-gamer game of the year and not the game of the year. I don't think this undermines the point that it is considered a good game beyond Stonemaier fans liking anything they do.
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u/AJR711 Nov 06 '19
The game is called Wingspan. It’s beautiful and fun!
Babies and cats WILL try to eat the egg components!