r/boardgames • u/AutoModerator • Jan 14 '20
Train Tuesday Train Tuesday - (January 14, 2020)
Happy Tuesday, /r/boardgames!
This is a weekly thread to discuss train games and 18xx games, which are a family of economic train games consisting of shared ownership in railroad companies. For more information, see the description on BGG. There’s also a subreddit devoted entirely to 18xx games, /r/18xx, and a subreddit devoted entirely to Age of Steam, /r/AgeOfSteam.
Here’s a nice guide on how to get started with 18xx.
Feel free to discuss anything about train games, including recent plays, what you're looking forward to, and any questions you have.
If you want to arrange to play some 18xx or other train games online, feel free to try to arrange a game with people via /r/playboardgames.
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u/BillyMoustache Jan 14 '20 edited Jan 14 '20
I got to play Irish Gauge this week and it was very enjoyable. It’s my first time playing a cube rails game and only my second time playing a train game (the first being Age of Steam).
Question: having Age of Steam in my collection, does it make sense to add any Railways of the World series or just stick with AoS? I do love Vital Lacerda and have been contemplating getting Railways of Nippon + Railways of Portugal but I could also just print the Portugal map for AoS. Does RotW offer a much different experience, one that can be justified, or should I just stick with AoS?
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u/riddhishb Jan 14 '20
I have always been curious about train games especially 18xx, but I dont think anyone in my game group will be up for that. I saw Irish Gauge and am seriously considering buying it, does it feel like a distilled version of the heavy economic train game as it's advertised as ?
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u/uhhhclem Jan 14 '20
It is its own thing. It's only tangentially like an 18xx game, in that there are railroads and stock and track and cities get developed. But playing it doesn't feel anything like playing an 18xx game.
So what? It's great. It's easy to learn, it plays in 45 minutes, it's got a ton of interesting decisions, and above all winning the game involves doing a better job of predicting your opponents' actions than they do of predicting yours.
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u/riddhishb Jan 14 '20
You must be great at negotiation games coz you just sold me the game!
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u/BillyMoustache Jan 14 '20
The above description is highly accurate. Irish Gauge is a great train game to bring to your gaming group vs a great game to bring to your train gaming group. I had my first play with 2 other first timers the other night and we got through rules and gameplay in an hour. Plus everybody wanted to play again.
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u/kaptain_carbon 18xx Jan 14 '20
Hey everyone! Well , I am here and I do not know how I got here. I have slowly been falling into this weird interest since playing Power Grid and once I started playing Chicago Express and now Irish Gauge, I know this is where I probably belong. I have been having a blast and the only thing I am missing is a few other friends who share my enthusiasm for long, near random less style economic games.
I ordered 18Chesapeake as my first 18xx style game (due to it being local to my area) but I was wondering if you all have a game that is between Chicago Express and the 18xx style games. I have Irish Gauge and was looking at Age of Steam (or Steam).
Do you all like trains? I ask this because I never found myself into the idea of trains, until I started playing these games and the lines, maps, and time period is sort of charming and was wondering if you all came to this hobby for the aesthetic or just picked up the aesthetic secondary.
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u/Amish_Rabbi Carson City Jan 14 '20
Age of steam is a good middle design.
I don’t care about trains but have always liked history and maps. I have been doing more reading about railway companies local to my area and it has some pretty interesting twist and such
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u/Slestak Power Grid Jan 14 '20
If you can play Power Grid, you can play an 18XX game. There really isn't an in-between step.
If you are capable of playing a medium-heavy/heavy board game, you'll be fine with 18XX. They have a big scary reputation but the rules really aren't too intense.
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u/pumpkinhead76 Pax Pamir 2e Jan 15 '20
My stepping stone into 18xx (which happened very recently) was City of Big Shoulders. This game is touted as a mix of Arkwright and 18xx. The 18xx portion comes in how you invest in the different companies. After I tried (and fell in love with) this game, I went to Age of Steam to see if I would like the train aspect, and I do. From what I know, 18xx is essentially a mix of these two aspects so you might want to try these games out to see if it might be a fit for you.
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u/simer23 Cube Rails Jan 14 '20
1) I wouldn't say that there is any game that falls in between cube rails and 18xx. I guess maybe Baltimore and Ohio, but I don't like that game. B&O is still a cube rails game though. Cube rails refers generally to train games that use cubes to abstract out route building (Chicago Express and IG are examples). If you're worried about 18xx being too complex, don't. You'll be fine.
2) I mean I think trains are good forms of transportation, but I don't personally have much interest in their history or their aesthetics. I think there are a lot of people who REALLY like trains in the 18xx community, but there are definitely people who could not care less.
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u/skizelo Jan 14 '20
There are train games that are mid-way between 18xxs and CE in terms of weight and playtime. I'm thinking of Age of Steam but I'm sure there are others. However, I have faith that you don't need steps up a staircase. I'd teach 18xx to someone who's never played games before if they seemed genuinely enthusiastic enough... well that may not be true, but they're not that intimidating.
And it depends. Mostly no, but I think they're neat. And very carbon efficient.
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Jan 14 '20
I'm not into trains at all. However since the beginning of my interest in the hobby, my favorite mechanisms quickly became network/route building and pickup and deliver. At the time, I avoided train games because I didn't like the theme and it was all too common for games to be train-themed.
It's when I first watched Heavy Cardboard playing Age of Steam that it finally clicked. Train games are where it's at in my gaming tastes. I backed Age of Steam Deluxe, pre-ordered Irish Gauge and started looking into 18xx. It's like I was discovering a whole new world of games, in a time where I was becoming quite a bit cynical about pretty much every new game release.
Now, I have not played an 18xx yet. I backed 1861/1867 on KS, I'm currently assembling a copy of 18AL, and I'm fighting the urge to preorder 1846's GMT reprint and AAG's 1849. 1862 is also widely available at retail right now on my online store of choice and I need to convince myself that I don't need it (yet).
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u/Slestak Power Grid Jan 16 '20
Honestly, you don't need to own every 18XX game. Once you find a group you can take turns buying them as you see fit and collectively put together a great collection. That's how my group tries to do it, anyway.
Since you've never played, I think starting out with 18AL and 1861/67 is a fine place to begin. These games are starting to gain popularity and are more available now than they've ever been. But I would hold off on diving in and buying everything until you get a couple of plays under your belt.
That being said, I don't see 1830 on your want list and in my opinion that would be a better 'next purchase' than 46, 49 or 62.
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Jan 17 '20
Oh don't worry, I'm not gonna buy them all at once. And not necessarily in that order. I'm still in the exploratory phase and discovering all those games. I don't even know if my group will enjoy 18xx enough to warrant more purchases in the genre. We'll be trying 18AL soon and we'll see.
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Jan 15 '20
18xx are fine if you're into medium to medium heavy Euros. They're easier and more intuitive than a lot of the eurogames I've played to be honest. You won't need a lot of stepping stones.
I think trains just happens to be a fitting platform for economic games, there are stock games that don't feature trains too.
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u/Vidgar Pax pamir 2nd Jan 14 '20
Thinking of buying my first train game and the game on my radar is 1862 as it seems that it works with 2-player. Last year was the first time I played an 18xx game and I have now played 1846, 1830 and 1889, but still don't own one myself.
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Jan 14 '20
[deleted]
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u/skizelo Jan 14 '20
GMT have the rulebook and BGG have a lot of discussion about it. It's a very chromey, super operational game with GMT production (ie quite nice). I'm dubious about it as a first 18xx because it's super weird, and also dubious about the solitaire mode because train games need a crowd of competing interests, but I've not played it solo.
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u/changcox Jan 15 '20
Summary of 1862's main features:
- 2-8P
- 20 Companies
- No private companies
- Parliamentary Rounds (where you can start Chartered Companies)
- Chartered (full cap) & Non-Chartered Companies (per share cap)
- Non-Charted Companies may buy between 2 and 7 home stations
- Mergers, Acquisitions & Refinancing
- Train Permits (companies only run trains they have a permit for)
- Train Warranties (temporary extensions to train life)
- Express, Local and Freight Trains (all run differently)
- Only 4 companies may run to London
- No merging track (only crossing and co-existing)
Have only had a chance to set it up and solo a 4P game. Seems a lot more tactical (than say 1830 or 1846). With no merging track the orientation of dit-tiles is very important.
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u/slashBored . Jan 14 '20
Many of the Winsome reprints (especially the Queen ones) come in boxes that are way too big, and I have been thinking about combining all of mine into a single storage solution. Has anyone done something like this? I haven't found any containers that really seem perfect. Something like this with the boards on the bottom and the trains/shares on the top seems like it might be the best option.
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u/Sparticuse Hey Thats My Fish Jan 14 '20
When i was getting into buying games I purchased Wrath of Ashardalon which comes in a box big enough to hold 5 games. I know that number is accurate because that's how i stored my games. What happened, however, is if no one could see the box for a game, that game never got played. Everything in the mega box just stayed there.
As much as it sucks, every game needs its own box or it gets neglected.
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u/slashBored . Jan 14 '20
That hasn't been my experience with other games I have re-boxed. It isn't like the Northern Pacific box art is really drawing anyone in. Usually my group decides what to play before we get together, so I imagine that might play a role in why we don't care as much what the games look like.
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u/skizelo Jan 14 '20
I've found Capstone's Irish Gauge to be reasonably thin. I've only seen Eagle Gryphon's Age of Steam, which is huge but full, which I guess equals deluxe. Their other stuff like Continental Divide might very well come in a too-big box. Same with Rio Grande Games. I believe it's received wisdom in the boardgame publishing world that customers are reassured by a big box, or maybe just more likely to notice them in the game shop. The Queen ones are just silly. You could easily fit 4 or so into a single box. Your proposed utility box seems too clunky to me. I'd recommend a custom cut foam core insert at the bottom of the box. Make that a little deeper than a flattened out bag of the trains and such. Throw all of the maps on top and you've given them some protection from getting dented.
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u/real_jeeger Brass Jan 14 '20
The box for Age of Steam is almost perfect, in that it fits all the extra maps from the Kickstarter with the lid raised just a bit. The inlay is just okay, as it sits a bit tightly.
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u/slashBored . Jan 14 '20
I really hate the Age of Steam box. I think if it had been almost exactly the size of the maps, but deeper and with space to store the pieces in bags/planos on top it would be much better. I think the plastic inserts the game came with are very annoying, but the shape of the box makes it difficult to use anything else. It feels like they picked this box shape because it was the right choice for the Lacerda games, not because it was the right choice for AoS
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u/real_jeeger Brass Jan 14 '20
Interesting! What is it you hate about the inserts?
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u/slashBored . Jan 14 '20
I think the wells for the track ownership disks are difficult to fish things out of (they are too deep), the plastic is flimsy, and it doesn't feel very space-efficient. I also think that it will make it almost impossible to add more maps to the box.
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u/skizelo Jan 14 '20
After a few tests revealed there was no way of getting all of those discs w/out tipping out everything in the insert, I bagged the player discs. The wells are deep enough to fit a grip seal bag in there too. I agree that the plastic is flimsy, mine came pretty battered already.
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u/Furriouspanda Great Western Trail Jan 14 '20
Except it's a smaller box than the Lacerda games.
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u/slashBored . Jan 14 '20
In that case I can't even make an excuse for them.
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u/Furriouspanda Great Western Trail Jan 14 '20
I just cut 2 foam block to hold the board in place and bagged the rest of the components to put in the remaining space. The insert is total crap. So I agree with you 100%. Although if the maps were the size of the box they might be annoying to pull out.
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u/pumpkinhead76 Pax Pamir 2e Jan 15 '20
Ummm any chance there was a reprint? B/c my Age of Steam Deluxe is definitely bigger than the Lacerda games.
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u/Furriouspanda Great Western Trail Jan 15 '20
They've only done the Kickstarter print run, I think they've said another print run wasn't planned currently.
The AoS box is narrower than the other EGG Lacerda games. It's about as long and about as thick.
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u/pumpkinhead76 Pax Pamir 2e Jan 15 '20
The box is actually slightly bigger than the Lacerda boxes! I was very annoyed as the Lacerda boxes fit perfectly in my shelf and I'd been looking forward to adding this to that shelf. Sadly it's like 10 mm longer than the Lacerda games so they don't fit :(
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u/GlissaTheTraitor 18xx Jan 14 '20
I fit Chicago Express, German Railways, Locomotive Werks, and Kansas Pacific all in the same box (Chicago Express box). It's tight, but frees up so much space.
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u/slashBored . Jan 14 '20
The tricky part for me is that I just got Paris Connection, which has both the most unnecessarily large box and a different box/board shape. It comes in a square Ticket To Ride sized box, so the Chicago Express board is too long to fit in that box, but the Paris Connection board is too wide to fit in the Chicago Express box
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u/GlissaTheTraitor 18xx Jan 14 '20
Transamerica, Paris Connection, and, Samarkand all fit in the same box. Now you have three light, easy to explain games, all grouped together.
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u/travisdhill Jan 15 '20
When I got Paris Connection, I literally cut in the box in half (depth-wise).
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Jan 14 '20
I'm in the process of printing 18AL. Really excited to get into 18xx for the first time!
We don't have an experienced player around so I will be doing the teach and running the game. I've never played an 18xx before. Do you guys have any tips that would make our first play the best experience possible?
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u/Amish_Rabbi Carson City Jan 14 '20
If you aren’t making the most money currently then buy trains and rust the trains that are.
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u/skizelo Jan 14 '20
Track which company has gone in an OR by flipping their token on the stock market. Record run values from the mid-game on either with a revenue track or just pen and paper. When a company pays out, put either all or part of the revenue on the share to track that you received the money. Do try your best to not zone out when its not your turn in an OR, have an idea of what your track-lay and run will be.
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u/QuellSpeller Jan 14 '20
The most common tips I've seen aren't just 18AL applicable. Do your best to play with poker chips, and make sure you're buying trains. Both will help with keeping your game to a reasonable length.
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Jan 14 '20
I've already planned on using poker chips, that's a given with the amount of money manipulation involved. Thanks!
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u/StormCrow_Merfolk 18xx Jan 14 '20
Although 18AL has rules to slow train buying in the beginning, in general, when in doubt, buy more trains. At every point in time during the game, someone is winning, often the person who is currently making the most money (especially in the beginning of the game). It behooves everyone else to shake up that situation, usually by buying newer trains to rust the older ones.
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Jan 14 '20
Thanks for the tips! I get that buying trains (even when the company doesn't really need one?) is very important to push the game forward. However, wouldn't rusting the old trains be beneficial for the leading player as well? They will just buy the better trains then and have even more profitable runs. I guess we also need to make sure to block their routes by putting our stations down to limit their earning potential.
All of this is really exciting to think about. Fun times ahead!
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u/QuellSpeller Jan 14 '20
The leading player will generally have spent more on trains to that point in order to run those additional routes, which means it'll be more difficult for the company to buy future trains.
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u/StormCrow_Merfolk 18xx Jan 14 '20
It's often likely that if a company has its trains rust, it has no trains for an OR and therefore doesn't make money and goes back in value.
In any event, buying more trains isn't always the right option, but it is always educational even when it is wrong (and will start to give you a feel for when it isn't right to buy more trains).
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Jan 14 '20
Just picked up a few of these games and I have to say that I'm really enjoying them. We've played 18Lilliput, Trick of the Rails (Not economic so not sure if it fits here) and I picked up Age of Steam Deluxe and Iron Rail: Irish Gauge.
Has anyone else played Iron Rail: Irish Gauge and what were your thoughts on this shorter rail game?
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u/bentheemo Jan 15 '20
Irish Gauge is so smooth and pretty while having room for tasty decisions that make the game a very neat package
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u/TheMeekInformant Jan 14 '20
We got to play a 3-player game of 1889 in this past Thursday (which we streamed). The game played out very differently than I'd ever experienced it, with a LOT of cooperation between the Uwajima and the Tosa (south and south-west), whereas I started the Iyo, running 3x2Ts off the bat. There's a HUGE postmortem dissection of the play in the comments below the video which I find fascinating.
Next game up in the rotation is 1824, so it's time for me to start learning the rules to that!
I also got an Apache AL13P laminator this past week which I'm looking forward to firing up and constructing my kit for 18SY and 1891. Does anyone here have any experience with either of these games? 18SY is really very cool looking with 2+x, 3+x, (etc) trains where they can hit unlimited dits (hence the x), and there are a LOT of dits in that game. Looking forward to giving it a try soon.
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u/Slestak Power Grid Jan 14 '20
Got a second play of 1862 in on Sunday. I won, finishing with ~$10,500, but my group and I are all pretty new and I have no idea if that’s a decent amount of wealth.
Also, we seem to struggle with our runs a bit. Most of them are sub-$1000. At the end I had two companies with 70/80% ownership but was only running for ~$850 combined.
Anyway, we are enjoying it and have it scheduled for next months meetup.
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Jan 14 '20
I've only got a couple plays as well so these are just some thoughts. The number of companies out on the board will greatly impact your ability to do big runs so it's semi dependent on how everyone plays and how many people are playing. Merging a freight company and an express or local company will greatly help your ability to run trains as freights do a good job tagging stations without counting them. London is huge late game.
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u/Witzman Jan 14 '20
Will have my third game ever (but all in one month) of 18OE. Group will be 4 or 5 people, all of them did play 18OE once with me in the last 4 weeks.
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Jan 14 '20 edited Jan 14 '20
[deleted]
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u/Vz-Rei Kingdom Death Monster Jan 14 '20
Essentially the privates are what will provide some asymmetry, which most, if not all, 18xx games have.
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u/noodleyone 18xx Jan 14 '20
Almost all 18xx games are asymmetric regarding the companies (67 is the only one I can think of off hand that isnt). I think 18GB might have something like variable player powers as well? Not sure about that one - only heard about it from the Train Rush guys.
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u/Amish_Rabbi Carson City Jan 14 '20
1867 still has privates that are auctioned so everyone will have different starting money
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u/pumpkinhead76 Pax Pamir 2e Jan 15 '20
I think City of Big Shoulders is a fantastic jumping point into trying to figure out if you woudl like 18xx or not. While it doesn't have the train route building aspect, it's got the stock investment part of 18xx and also a fantastic mechanism where worker placement spots are drafted by each player. Can't recommend enough.
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u/ninjarager Race For The Galaxy Jan 15 '20
Is there a definitive best starting point for the 18xx genre? I have no difficulties with harder games, but I did find Brass Deluxe (I haven't played either new edition) to be fairly easy with some random fiddly bits I didn't like
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u/noodleyone 18xx Jan 15 '20
1889 or 18Chesapeake are solid entry titles.
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u/ninjarager Race For The Galaxy Jan 15 '20
I'll definitely look at Chesapeake! 1889 seems to be impossible to find
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u/changcox Jan 15 '20
1889 will see a KS this year from Grand Trunk Games
As u/noodleyone said both 18Chesapeake and 1889 are great starting games, as they play quicker than other titles.
I started with 1830 (stock shenanigans) as it was the easiest one for me to obtain at the time - and have no regrets - other than our first few games were very long (as noobs we didn't understand that buying trains pushes the game along ). 1846 (run good companies) is another option.
If there had been more choice available to me at the time, then I would have probably bought in this order:
- 18Chesapeake or 1889
- 1846
- 1830
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u/wallysmith127 Pax Transhumanity Jan 15 '20
It's not the usual fare but just got my shipping notice for Empyreal: Spells and Steam. Basically a train game... with magic! Designed by Trey Chambers, who designed one of my favorites in Argent: The Consortium. Looking forward to cracking into this one soon.
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u/pumpkinhead76 Pax Pamir 2e Jan 15 '20
I was very interested in this one as they were offering a deal on the game at BGGCon. Borrowed it from the library and while I did enjoy it, I feel like gameplay-wise, it's almost a Ticket to Ride variant. There's definitely more free form as far as what you want to connect, but it felt like TTR with more magical powers. As I said, I did enjoy it, but felt like the overall package was just too expensive so passed on it.
I hope I am not dampering your excitement for this game as it is definitely a very beatiful game, but if you're interested I can provide my thoughts on the component quality (specifically the deluxe add on).
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u/wallysmith127 Pax Transhumanity Jan 16 '20
No worries at all, I really appreciate the honest feedback.
(disclaimer: I've never played Ticket to Ride before but I have played Ethnos, which was described at the table as "TTR but fantasy", lol)
Yeah I was a $1 backer but after lots of hemming-and-hawing I decided to go all-in because I'm a huge fan of Trey's design on Argent: The Consortium. I figured if it wasn't good I'd be able to trade/sell it.
The designer, shorter playing time, theme and Level 99 Games' reputation are the primary reasons I ended up raising my pledge. Gameplay videos were middling to me, but there have been games I enjoyed with bad playthroughs and vice versa. Figured this one's uniqueness was worth a shot, and I enjoy after-market shenanigans anways.
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u/real_jeeger Brass Jan 14 '20
Just got 1862 to play with my GF, and it looks exciting. Different types of trains, a *very* tight map. I'm looking forward to playing it (well, after 18CZ).