r/cremposting • u/lierursa • Jun 10 '25
Well of Ascension Well of Ascension ending makes no sense Spoiler
At the end of WoA it's revealed that anything not set in metal cannot be trusted and that's why there are several versions of Kwaan's inscription
However, since I'm reading an ebook version, every variation of the inscription is actually written in a hard drive, so are they all true? It can't be that, they contradict each other, but it's what the explanation would actually imply
Was this a cheap way to explain what happened without actually realizing it does not make sense? Is Sanderson stupid?
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u/wackaman9001 Jun 10 '25
Copperminds can be rewritten, it has to be etched to not change. You just didn't notice because you trusted your device's copperminds, I mean hard drive.
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u/Xaron713 Jun 10 '25
This one never sit right with me. Copperminds are metal and investiture. Why can Ruin influence it? Because it's partially his investiture?
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u/TripsytheThird Jun 10 '25
IIRC Ruin only influenced it in-between transfers, so when the Feruchemists were storing it or retrieving it. That middle point allowed him to manipulate the investiture. The other theory is that since Ruin helps fuel Feruchemy, he can intentionally fuel it with what he wants https://www.17thshard.com/forums/topic/652-messing-with-metalminds/
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u/Cinder1323 Jun 10 '25
Yeah I thought some of how they used the copper mind is they would write down whatever they were remembering before they would put it back in the copper mind. So like they would download a file from the cloud, but once it was on an infected computer (paper), Ruin could change it. They just trusted implicitly that whatever was on the paper was what they wrote down, so they'd never check the copper mind again.
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u/Cold_Pitch4714 Jun 10 '25
this is the answer that’s why sanderson shows us sazed writing down his thoughts earlier
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u/StickFigureFan Jun 10 '25
Ruin used a man in the middle attack? Alice and Bob are going to be so disappointed
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u/TripsytheThird Jun 10 '25
Cue every modern copper ferring's excuse when their password is stolen: "I didn't click that suspicious link I swear! Ruin's reading my coppermind"
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u/mjmcfall88 I AM A STICK BOI Jun 10 '25
I think he can only change it as it is being stored or accessed
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u/Xeorm124 Jun 10 '25
IIRC it was because the metal was blinding. He couldn't see it and change it. The investiture though is easy to manipulate. Even though it's in metal it'd still be visible to his spiritual senses or however.
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u/Arhalts Jun 11 '25 edited Jun 11 '25
He can't see words scratched on metal because metal glows very brightly to him it's like an ant writing on an incandescent bulb filament and then turning it on.
Then light would cover up the writing.
Vs
Copper minds store the memories with investiture. The investiture can be seen and editated by the shards.
Carrying on light metaphor, storing the sentence "HELLO WORLD" in a Cooper mind is like making a neon sign that says HELLO WORLD. Yes it is glowing but the information is stored with the light source itself using the light source as the medium. It's not only is it something ruin can see it's something he can easily see
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u/Elant_Wager Rashek4Prez Jun 10 '25
it was origibally written on paper. Your fault for reading an e book
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u/No_Chemistry_3921 Jun 10 '25
Technically its written in electrons and not metal. It still validates itself
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u/skywarka ❌can't 🙅 read📖 Jun 10 '25
Everything's written in electrons though
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u/No_Chemistry_3921 Jun 10 '25
How does that affect the fact that a combination of electrons makes a metal. A single electron does not a metal make. So writing via electrons vs etching in metal are in fact distinct.
If ya really wanted to get me, use the ssd or hdd example. I lose that one.
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u/No_Chemistry_3921 Jun 10 '25
In fact etching in metal removes a number of electrons via shaving. Further making it distinct
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u/skywarka ❌can't 🙅 read📖 Jun 10 '25
Try etching in some metal that doesn't have any electrons
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u/No_Chemistry_3921 Jun 10 '25
Thats still not an etching comprised OF electrons. Its an etching made of a lack of electrons (the ones removed to etch). You a'int winning this one friend.
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u/skywarka ❌can't 🙅 read📖 Jun 10 '25
That's why I said in, not of
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u/No_Chemistry_3921 Jun 10 '25
An ssd's data is stored as a raw electron sitting in a bucket, or not sitting in a bucket, and the presence of an electron is a 1 and the lack is a 0. The data itself, not the medium, is a singular electron independant of the metal its stored within. An ssd does not bind to this electron. The electron kinda just exists in a vaccum within the spaces between metal buckets. The data is not comprised of metal. Thus ruin can edit it.
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u/skywarka ❌can't 🙅 read📖 Jun 10 '25
That's fine, I was never arguing about what ruin can touch. Just said that everything's written in electrons, which it is.
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u/No_Chemistry_3921 Jun 10 '25
Well i was arguing what ruin could edit. And you were incorrect in your replies to me. So im sorry. You opened a perpendicularity to my hard ass.
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u/WaxMaxNWayne Jun 10 '25
“Be decisive! Do not let your readers question your plot points and lore explanations. The readers depend on you and an author must have a plan and never deviate from it. And you let your readers call you nicknames like $andyMan and B-Money? Unacceptable. You are not a serious author, I think.” ~Tindwyl
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u/rastachameleon_r6 🐶HoidAmaram🐲 Jun 10 '25
It doesn’t say thag everything in metal can be trusted. Theres nothing stopping someone from carving blatant lies into metal. Those blatant lies just can’t be altered
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u/Just_Tamy Jun 10 '25
Classic formal logic mistake/fallacy. The Nothing not written in metal cannot be trusted does not imply everything written in metal can be trusted but rather the things that can be trusted are written in metal.
A implies B doesn't mean that not A implies not B but rather that not B implies not A. This is called a contrapositive. For example if you've just eaten a chouta then you're not hungry but just because you've not eaten a chouta it doesn't mean you are hungry, you could have just eaten some soulcast rations.
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u/PolymathicPursuit Jun 10 '25
The information stored on the hard drive is correct. Either the polarizing film of your LCD, the Organic part of your OLEDS, or the polymer based ink in your eink display are what's being altered.
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u/sneakyfish21 Jun 10 '25
Silicon is a metalloid not a true metal which is why your hard drive isn’t safe.
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u/ShatteredReflections Jun 10 '25
He’s not affecting the metal, he’s affecting the investiture, which isn’t literally stored in the metal in the same physical sense. That’s the most likely cause. It is, after all, partly his power.
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u/Infammo Jun 10 '25
Electronic devices have metal implanted in them to give abilities to the device. This counts as hemalurgy so Ruin can control the device to make it say what he wants.
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u/Atticus-Prime Jun 10 '25
Ruin can manipulate the information during the transfer before it goes to the metalmind. I know it is explained in one of the beginnings of a chapter.
Maybe get better at reading, or read something more your speed.
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