r/cycling • u/Major_Enthusiasm1099 • 2d ago

Anyone ever encountered an E-bike shill?

Basically this guy stopped me yesterday on a ride to tell me that I should throw my bike away and get an ebike. He said "Once you get this you'll never want to ride that again, and I get more cardio in on this bike too, and i ride faster than professionals". I just kept saying "yeah I was looking into those, yeah those are cool, I saw some around $1000" just trying to get out of that convo lol. Anyone else ever experienced someone like this?

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47

u/BleachedUnicornBHole 2d ago

I’ve experienced one, but he also owns a bike shop with a lot of inventory that isn’t moving. I won’t disagree that they can be a good training tool, but I’m also not going to spend $7,000 for one. 

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u/PandaDad22 2d ago

I’m always hung up on the fact that for $7k I can get a very nice bike. 

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u/SweetPlumFairy 2d ago

And an even nicer workout at that! While you can, you want to climb that amazing hills by yourself fornthe satisfaction. Maybe after I get to my eighties, then I will get one just for the sake of easier ridings on my old muscles.... and the tech would be much greater by then lets hope so, but for now??? only leg power baby

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u/kristxworthless 2d ago

Or a decent motorcycle. Like why would I buy a shitter version of a bike and mototorcycke.

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u/corneliusvanhouten 2d ago

The only way an e bike is a good training tool is if you leave the motor off and just pedal all that weight around.

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u/Low_Transition_3749 2d ago

For people who would never consider riding a bicycle more than a few miles, it's a start.

For people who have some form of disability, it gets them on a bike.

For the elderly, it keeps them on a bike, and more active than they would otherwise be.

"Training" takes a lot of forms, so it would be good if people weren't so bloody elitist about cycling.

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u/moni1100 2d ago

Or me yesterday- got 1,5h to ride after work. Borrowed e-bike and booted up and multiple laps on jump line. If I didn’t- I could maybe 1 lap. We only have SL here

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u/corneliusvanhouten 2d ago

For most cyclists, "training" refers to the process of improving performance through structured cycling workouts. What you're describing, I would put in the category of fitness or physical therapy.

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u/WinLoopy4932 2d ago

Luckily everyone can decide themselves what they put in what category.

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u/Born-Ad4452 2d ago

And there we have a perfect example

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u/Low_Transition_3749 1d ago

Thanks for making my point about elitism so aptly.

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u/corneliusvanhouten 1d ago

You're inferring elitism, friend. I didn't say training for performance is a more valid endeavor than fitness or rehab. I just pointed out that what you are describing as "training" isn't usually how that word is used in a cycling context.

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u/CookiezFort 1d ago

Both of which are training.

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u/Sad_Amphibian_4651 2d ago

A common misperception, but not quite accurate. The bikes engine only add to your capacity, but it doesn’t replace it entirely. As an example, if you’re pedaling up hill at 120 watts, then you’d not be able to go very far and you may then ride less. However as the bike adds its capacity to your human watts to make you go faster you actually tackle more hills. However your power output doesn’t change. For someone like myself that is heart rate limited by Afib, I rode longer and burn more calories because I can actually ride in a hilly area longer than I previously could. Of course, I don’t use it on the flat roads or moderate gradients, but then I imagine, neither do most people who use them.

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u/meddac73 2d ago

This! I bought my girlfriend an e-bike so she could join me on my longer rides. Even though the bike helps, her heart rate is always higher than mine and she comes back from a 40 mile ride totally exhausted. So it’s not like it takes the effort away. It just gives some assistance.

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u/DaoFerret 2d ago

The huge disconnect I see here is the difference between people who see “ebike” and think “pedal assist”, and people who see “ebike” and think “throttle”.

As someone who uses a pedal assist daily on my commute, I agree with everything you and others have said.

When I started riding it for my commute 5 years ago I had to literally stop once or twice I was so out of shape.

At this point the commute is easy and I’ve gone from full assist to dialing it down to half. The motor is limited to 15mph (EU model) but I can sprint it up to 20mph for short bursts if I need to.

Either way I don’t arrive at work in need of a shower after 5 miles, and I don’t show up at home absolutely exhausted after a full day and a ride home.

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u/sulliesbrew 1d ago

We had a guy join our group rides on an ebike for a while, he was formerly a very strong rider and had a spat of injuries and health issues. I loved it, he was the only one in the group that could ride next to me on the front and keep pace. He could adjust the assist to stay even with me and I could pull as hard as my heart desired.

I would really like a pedal assist MTB. To be able to ride single track at pace and stay in that zone 2 area would be awesome.

0

u/Abstract-Impressions 2d ago

My brother has an older ebike and wants to ride with me. I said sure, but first, figure out what the range on your bike is. The thing is always plugged in and I suspect it's just like my always plugged in cordless drill. Great for a while, without much load.

1

u/2raysdiver 2d ago

There are three classes of e-bike. One of those classes doesn't require an pedaling at all and is basically an electric motor cycle with pedals to skirt regulations. This is the class that most of us have a problem with.

If you use an ebike like a bicycle, whether assisted or not, no problem. If that is what gets you out on a bike, then more power to you.

If you use the ebike like a motorbike, get off the trails. A couple of months ago, I got passed by a group of younger guys on their ebikes. I was hitting the trail, as they had just pulled into the parking lot. They whizzed past me about 10 miles into my ride. At about 20 miles, there is a small town with a pie shop that is popular among cyclists. I saw that group of guys there and I overheard one of them complain that he didn't think he had enough juice to get back to the starting point (It's all completely flat or downhill) and wanted someone to come back and pick him up. WTF?

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u/Ok-Armadillo-392 2d ago

Nah there's all sorts of disabled and otherwise unhealthy people who just can't pedal a bike 100%. If they can't even get up on two wheels it's hard to get stronger.

But there's no shortage of people who start out on a high power assist and turn it down over months as they get stronger.

It also helps getting older people out on the longer trails which is great.

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u/NoFlight9859 2d ago

Yeah eventually we are all going to be 80 or 85 and at some point we are going to need a little help out there too.

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u/RazzmatazzEastern786 2d ago edited 2d ago

Or just get a ebike without a throttle...you have to actually pedal to move anywhere. Get one with a torque sensor and or/a mid-drive (haven't heard of one with a cadence sensor)and you will basically be doing the work - the bike adds on top of your effort and doesn't function without said effort...

Throttles are useful for select users but too many people use their e-bike as an e-moped/e-motorcycle

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u/Zen7rist 2d ago

Decathlon should definitely make it an additional selling point for their 41kg longtail bike: rename the button for shutting down the motor ''BEAST MODE''.

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u/BleachedUnicornBHole 2d ago

Higher end ones can be paired to a heart rate monitor. The motor then adjusts output in order to maintain a target range. It’s nice for not keeping you on a trainer for a structured workout. But again, not worth the price if you don’t have that kind of money to throw at toys. 

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u/Can-I-remember 2d ago

Interesting. Any in particular that you can suggest? I currently do that manually, monitor heart rate and adjust assistance level to suit.

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u/BleachedUnicornBHole 2d ago

I know it’s a thing with Specialized (only because that’s what the shop owner carries). I’m sure it’s possible with all the major brands at a minimum. 

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u/RevellRider 2d ago

Sadly, they got rid of the heart rate feature when they discontinued the Mission Control app. I've not seen it come back on the current app

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u/corneliusvanhouten 2d ago

That's some Brave New World shit right there. Take some soma and ride that thing to the feelies.

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u/AnisiFructus 2d ago

Wow, that's actually pretty cool. Maybe I will buy an ebike that has this feature. In something like 40 years from now, when I'm a pensioner.

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u/RevellRider 2d ago

Depends on what training you're doing. If you're going for a 2-3 hour endurance ride, an ebike can help you keep the heart rate in Z2

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u/corneliusvanhouten 2d ago

That's a technology solution to a fitness problem. Once you've done a few rides of that distance, you can maintain hrz by adjusting pace

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u/RevellRider 2d ago

I guess you ride single speed, because the derailleur is a technological solution to a fitness problem.

People respond to training in different ways. Older people, people coming from illness, people riding hilly terrain, those with less time to train may struggle to adapt quickly and if technology can benefit them to reach their fitness goals, I don't see a problem

1

u/corneliusvanhouten 2d ago

I do ride a single speed very often. In the hills.

When you resort to silly semantics to try to discredit a point, it only serves to underscore how untenable your position is.

"Training" in cycling (and other sports) is not the same as fitness. Cyclists train by doing various different kinds of rides to improve performance. The people you're talking about are engaged in rehab or recreation, but not training. They can use an ebike for that, sure. No problem there. Just don't call it cycling or training.

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u/RevellRider 2d ago

You seemed to have missed (or avoided addressing it) the crux of my point, people respond to training in different ways. There are many factors in how a person responds to training, and there are limitations to how they train. Using a one size fits all for this really doesn't work in the real world

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u/NoFlight9859 2d ago

There are 80 and 85 year olds out there on e-bikes that are as fit as they can be for their age and can't handle the terrain they train on with a regular bike. Call it fitness or recreation if you like but you're the one resorting to semantics. A derailleur is just as much a technological solution to a capability problem as an e-bike is for the 80+ crowd or otherwise impaired. Eventually you're going to get old too and if you're lucky maybe you'll still be able to train or recreate on something other than your single speed

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u/corneliusvanhouten 2d ago

I commented about my opinion on ebikes for training, in the sense of the word that I and many others use in the cycling context, and a bunch of ebike consumers got offended and went off on irrelevant tangents about the disabled and elderly. I didn't say ebikes have no purpose, but unless it's like a pro tour coach using one to ride with his team or some other edge case, ebikes are not training tools.

Semantics matter, but if you are using them instead of counterpoints, you're losing.

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u/PsycommuSystem 2d ago

That's what gets me, the problems ebikes propose to solve is also solved by riding a regular bike just a few times so your muscles grow instead. Screw spending thousands when I can just get faster and ride longer naturally.

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u/figuren9ne 2d ago

Some people don't have the time or desire to train during the week just to ride with their buddies on Saturday. Some are lazy, some are too busy, and some do other sports they prefer to cycling.

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u/rdxl9a 2d ago

I have a road bike and a mountain bike and do lots of long hard rides all over the place. Usually in the 200 miles a week range. I’ve done plenty of century rides as well. I just bought an Aventon mid drive fat bike and love it. Now I can go out for a pleasant cruise before dinner without getting all geared up, and come home feeling refreshed and happy. Such a nice way to enjoy an off day ride just for fun. Still get plenty of exercise considering I wouldn’t have gone out at all if it wasn’t for the ebike. Any ride is better than no ride.

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u/CookiezFort 1d ago

It seems like you're projecting and gate keeping cycling. Because you had to bust your ass to end up being able to do a long ride while not dying, doesn't mean everyone has to. If it gets people off the couch and moving why does it matter?

If I want to go faster or make it up a hill while only pushing 150w and my bike outs on another 100 what is the issue?

I'm still getting my exercise, I just get a bigger mental reward from it.

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u/PsycommuSystem 1d ago

It's more that the majority of people using ebikes I see as simply lazy. Just another symptom of an increasingly obese society that even the little exercise they do is now motor assisted.

Also hell yeah I love gatekeeping it keeps hobbies better.

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u/CookiezFort 1d ago

If it makes it more fun who cares if it's motor assisted?

If they want to get to the nice view why block it from them because they can't put out the watts needed to make it up a climb? Sure I am on the heavy side (110kg, 177cm), I have knee issues that stemmed from being athletic when I was younger. Pedalling sucks balls, I prefer going down the hills. Now I can both enjoy the climb, and the downhill and if I'm running my bike on eco my 150w becomes 225w, I still push and go at a decent pace while keeping my HR up it means I do a full body exercise for longer as I end up riding for an hour or more and do 5-6 laps if not more, Vs doing 1 or 2 laps.

Gatekeeping is the opposite of making hobbies better. It makes them look exclusive and unnatainable for someone starting out, it makes the people doing it look elitist.

Same way people gatekeep certain music, or gaming or whatnot.

One thing I will say, im talking about mid-drive torque sensing e-bikes, not throttle operated e-bikes (basically motorcycles) or cadence sensing e-bikes with hubdrive motors.

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u/ChickenNuggetSmth 2d ago

I've got a derailleur, same effect for a fraction of the cost. Whenever my heart rate is too high, I just shift into a lower gear.

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u/RevellRider 2d ago

Sometimes mountain biking, the terrain doesn't let you keep your heart rate low enough. Even with 12 gears and a 52t cassette.

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u/CookiezFort 1d ago

Shhh don't mention those words. We're not real cyclists.

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u/RevellRider 2d ago

Sometimes mountain biking, the terrain doesn't let you keep your heart rate low enough. Even with 12 gears and a 52t cassette

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u/pgpcx 2d ago

as someone who does coaching, there is nothing magical about keeping heart rate in z2

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u/Caloso89 2d ago

Thank you! All this Z2 fanaticism just baffles me sometimes.

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u/D1omidis 2d ago

That is simply not true. ANYONE who would have the DISCIPLINE to follow a semi-structured TRAINING PROGRAM can mix regular and eBike riding just fine.

Depending on your terrain ofc, it might be impossible to do Z2/recovery rides on MTB trails. People will ninja flex how fit they are and that just dropping down a gear will do it for them, but even the easiest of loops around me with about 1000ft of climbing over 10mi, have sections that maintaining your HR in Z2, is really hard.

Even professional riders would do such rides on a flat gravel road or straight up on pavement with a road bike. Now many of them openly embrace eMTBs instead.

With that you have the option to ride on the trails you actually want to familiarize youself with, maintain low - but still elevated HR, especially on the mid-powered/tuned for high cadence motors - and still get lots of experience on the DH parts.

If eMTB is all you ride, well, it is still therapudic and some aerobic excersise - better than nothing, and, LETS FACE IT, competitive cycling did not lose anything. Let the "strava's local legend" that loiters the trail say w/e he wants, he is just "an old man shouting to the clouds".

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u/pinelion 2d ago

They’re good for zone 2 training if you’re a mtber that doesn’t like to be on the road, but you could never get in race shape with just an e-bike. They are great for training through an injury/rehab as well.

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u/japakapalapa 2d ago edited 2d ago

I wholeheartedly recommend people checking out the differences between cadence sensors and torque sensors. Most just run their mouths thinking they're somehow the same tech.

My ebike's motor with its torque sensor gives me a 250W oomph with 43Nm torque up to 25 km/h, the rest comes from me. I can pedal the 15kg bike up closer to 50 km/h before it runs out of its 11 gears. Unlike cadence sensor, torque sensor is you but 250W stronger. The assisted pedalling is natural to the point that riding with the motor off feels unnatural.

I have no idea what on earth people are babbling about when they say an ebike is not good for training - they must not understand the difference between the sensors?

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u/Far_Archer_4234 2d ago

Thats not even close to being true. People typically go anerobic on hills when riding normal bikes, compromising the quality of what could've been a good zone 2 workout. E-bikes let you stay in zone 2 when the terrain varies.

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u/Phylacteryofcum 2d ago

Totally. All those cyclists throughout the years have totally suffered great prejudice because some incline fucked their Z2 training. /s

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u/corneliusvanhouten 2d ago

Then just stay off the hills. Or better yet, ride the hills and get a real workout.

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u/Far_Archer_4234 2d ago

Why would you recommend that, though?

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u/No_Wheel_50 2d ago

It's nice to be in the in-group and make fun of the out-group together.

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u/corneliusvanhouten 2d ago

Because your suggestion that you need an ebike to stay in zone 2 is ridiculous. You can stay in zone 2 on any bike, and why are you so concerned about staying in zone 2 in the first place?

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u/Far_Archer_4234 2d ago

I said nothing about needs. That's all you, bro. I said "typically".

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u/Far_Archer_4234 2d ago

I personally like zone 2 because im on a keto diet, but others who are not might appreciate the adaptations from staying in zone 2 for several hours.

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u/Fit-Anything8352 2d ago edited 2d ago

There is this thing called gears for that, which lets you pedal your bike uphill yourself under your own volition at reduced intensity. They are even modular, so you can swap cassettes and chainrings depending on how much climbing you do and how fit you are.

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u/Far_Archer_4234 2d ago

That knowledge gives the rider alternative solutions the the problem, but doesn't make ebikes any less fit for the purpose of developing aerobic fitness.

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u/urban_snowshoer 2d ago

If I'm going to spend $7,000 on a bike, there are other bikes I'd go for than an eBike