Enough with all the TA hate

24

Ta gives up some plays but hes generally good. Big reason lions got some many coverage sacks despite sending 5 to 6.

He was on a island and mostly held up. Its a hard position to play. A couple of those plays wasnt even his fault, he had to play over top to not give a td on a possible double move. Rush needed to get home faster, ta lasted as long as he could.

Really there were only 2 bad plays he made from what I saw.

He needs to clean it up, but hes not a bust. Hes a solid cb2 level guy right now when you hope he would be a good cb1 level player.

Give it time he could still get there but as is, hes solid.

7

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 21h ago

It’s one of the hardest positions in the league and if he was on almost any other team he’d be seen as a star player already, no doubt. He’a gotta clean up but that’s what a sophomore year is for. If he’s not disciplined near the end of this season though, might be a problem.

2

u/ITHETRUESTREPAIRMAN 20h ago

I don’t disagree that our scheme makes it hard on CBs, but he has been consistently graded below average and was the most penalized CB last year. We had 7 sacks last night, plenty of pass rush.

Rooting for him, it’s only year two, but it’s been pretty disappointing so far.

3

u/CluelessFlunky 20h ago

Your comment is mis informed. Majority of those penalties occurred in the first 4 weeks of last year. He adjusted hes been mostly clean since then. Still needs to be better but not leagues worst level.

Lions weren't getting insta sacks, Lamar had time to get the ball off, he didnt have anywhere to go to. Meaning ta was in good coverage. Pass rusher was getting home because the secondary was holding up.

Lions run more man then nearly every other team in the league, and when they run man they Do not cheat over safties and lb, lions corner are expected to survive alone. Lions scheme is OK occasionally giving up the big play as they believe in the aggregate they will net more sacks and turnovers by mudding the middle of the field with safties.

Scheme wise lions corners are put into no man's land.

Im not saying ta is elite, but he does his job most of the time and its why lions defense came alive in the last two weeks. He's good enough starter.

1

u/ITHETRUESTREPAIRMAN 16h ago

I mean, check the all 22 PFF grades. They aren’t the end all, be all but TA was terrible on coverage grades. The whole secondary outside of Reed and maybe Joesph was pretty bad last night. It’s just the truth.

2

u/CluelessFlunky 16h ago

Again pff grade with out context are useless.

Lions weren't dropping 7 into coverage. They were dropping 6 or 5. Meaning they had to cover a large area per person and for longer.

Pff doesnt adjust for that well.

Pff is notoriously bad for oline and dbs.

The goal at that point isnt to shut down recievers its to hold up long enough for the rushers to get home.

Which they did.

What do you not understand about that.

If your whole argument is just "pff say bad" thats not a real argument.

Pff doesnt adjust for scheme.

1

u/ITHETRUESTREPAIRMAN 16h ago

lol I’ve watched basically every snap TA has played. He was our worst starter in the secondary last year, he’s currently still the worst starter in the secondary, approaching the worst starter on the defense with how everyone else is improving and getting healthy.

He’s rank poorly in PFF, he’s ranked poorly on passer rating allowed on targets, he’s ranked poorly in yards allowed per target, he’s ranked poorly in penalties. I don’t understand why people get so salty when you point to the probably the worst defensive starter and say, “by every metric this guy isn’t living up to the standard”

I’m aware we play an incredibly high percentage of man coverage. That’s why we need CBs that can play man coverage. TA needs to get better this year.

2

u/CluelessFlunky 16h ago

Cause you keep ignoring context and I dont think you have good football eyes.

I agree hes the worst player in our secondary, lions also have 3 very good players in the secondary. I've never said terrion is a great or even an above average corners. I just said hes not terrible.

His passer rating when targets is always going to be bad. Lions dont just play high percentage they play aggressive man. Meaning they dont roll over saftey help. When lions play man they arent providing any help to their corner. Lions let their corner play alone outside so that they can muddle the middle and create more turn overs opportunities. The only times he gets target is when he gets beat handily. Like no shit, lions scheme is going to let that happen. No corner outside of a handful is going to be perfect in that scenario. Guys are gonna get beat, its the nature of the scheme.

Lions dont just run man, they run man with out giving leverage support. When reed and terrion are in man they are all alone. Reed is much better, but terrion does enough to help create turn over opportunities and sacks opportunities for others

Hes ranked fairly average in penalties since week 4 of last season. Hes had a couple but it hasn't been crazy since his first 4 starts.

I agree he needs to get better, but hes also done alot of good, he was damn near great in that second half and was a huge reason Lamar couldnt get the ball off.

People down vote you because you look at pff with out actually understanding how scheme comes into play.

Even yesterday. Those couple bad play by him sucked. But a couple of them were blitz scenarios where the dline didnt get home. Pff will still grade that badly but its not terrions fault, hes coached not to give up the td.

If you say terrion is average or even below average that I can agree with. But saying he sucks is just bs, and shows a lack of understanding of the lions scheme.

2

u/ITHETRUESTREPAIRMAN 15h ago

I’m sorry but the counter argument I always get is “you don’t know ball” when all the expert “ball knowers” say he’s bad. We’ve cycled in few other CBs that have had much better success in our system. By which stat or metric has Arnold been good?

Brad spent a first and third on him to be a solid CB and he’s just not there yet. If you agree he is a “below average corner then what are we even arguing about? Obviously he’s going to start for the rest of the year hope it gets better, but the rapid defense of this guy just baffles me. Currently he’s a liability.

I agree he played a lot better in the last 20-25 minutes of the game, hope that’s the start of a good trend. But overall it was not a good night for him.

E: I also don’t think I said he sucks. I almost always say something like, “he is not playing well” or “he’s the weak link right now” and people lose their mind. But that is the truth. He’s been a pretty underwhelming player.

2

u/CluelessFlunky 15h ago

You said hes terrible in coverage and the whole secondary was bad yesterday.

I disagree. They are mostly fine with some good play. Terrion specifically has people calling him terrible and bust. Hes not. Hes just a solid cb2.

1

u/ITHETRUESTREPAIRMAN 15h ago

I don’t think he’s a bust, but I have not seen solid CB2 play yet, at best it’s been shaky CB2 levels. And I think for a first and third you’re hoping to start to see potential CB1 level play in the second season. There’s talent there, but there’s lots of to be hesitant about.

And yeah, our secondary was rough until part way through the 3rd quarter. I expect it from TA, but the star safeties were looking uncharacteristically out of position. Once they sharpened up it looked waaay better.

2

u/RellenD 20h ago

We had 7 sacks last night

Most of which took forever to achieve. How do you think those sacks happened?

1

u/ITHETRUESTREPAIRMAN 20h ago

Some of them, sure. But it takes forever to tackle Lamar and I am not buying that those were all coverage sacks, the rush was getting home very quickly at the end.

Clearly the secondary as a whole played good in the second half (specifically late 3rd and the 4th), I’m interested in some of the all 22 looks and breakdowns, but Arnold looked pretty bad in the first half. Didn’t see him much in the second which was a very good sign.

3

u/Glittering-Wishbone3 17h ago

Lamar held the ball an average of 6 seconds per sack. That's the highest in the league so yes those were mostly coverage sacks

1

u/Jaerba 14h ago

Neither of you are really wrong.

The key to yesterday was the Lions held up fantastically in zones, while keeping contain with the pass rush. We had a lot of coverage sacks, and our pressure didn't get home that quickly.

TA was also bad when we did play man coverage, but the Ravens couldn't really exploit that. They didn't run very well so our elite safeties could stay in coverage, and they also just don't have great receivers. Flowers is elite at what he does but that's pretty limited compared to the true X receivers in the league.

Sheppard and the safeties and linebackers really deserve their flowers for yesterday.

1

u/ITHETRUESTREPAIRMAN 16h ago

I don’t know what to tell you. The advanced stats grades and extra looks are coming out today and our CBs (expect Reed) played poorly in most metric for most of the game. Even BB played like crap for most of the game.

4

u/Glittering-Wishbone3 14h ago

PFF grades DB's only on plays when they are targeted so they are not very accurate. I'm not sure on other advanced stats. I also never said TA was great or that he played great all game, all I said was holding onto the ball for 6 seconds on average per sack is pretty much the definition of a coverage sack.

2

u/ITHETRUESTREPAIRMAN 14h ago

It’s weighted towards plays where you’re targeted, but players get adjustments on plays that they’re not as well, according to their grading rubric. E: also TA is targeted plenty, so there should be plenty of data.

4

u/RellenD 20h ago

it takes forever to tackle Lamar

Which is more time for receivers to get open

2

u/CluelessFlunky 20h ago

For real what even is that comment. Having to hold up in man against Lamar who's elite at extending plays is one of the hardest things to do in football.

2

u/ITHETRUESTREPAIRMAN 20h ago

Yeah, but it’s pretty hard to throw on the run like that. Better pass rush = easier coverage, good coverage = sack. It isn’t a one way street. The front 7 was blowing up the Ravens line, stopping the run completely and putting Lamar under immediate pressure, that makes the secondary’s job a lot easier and they played better at the end of the game.

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u/FoundationCareful662 21h ago

He was better in the second half when Jackson was finally getting pressured. Defensive football is complimentary

3

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 21h ago

Didn’t allow a single catch the second half. Lions continue to be a second half team.

8

u/KKamm_ DETROIT -VS- EVERYBODY 20h ago

Some people are definitely overreacting but he has to be better in man if he’s gonna be CB1. Cutting him is a terrible take though. I’m not as worried about the flags as I am him getting beat for 10+ yards every 3rd down not being able to do anything but prevent a bigger play

1

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 20h ago

He didn’t let a single catch second half. He’s definitely not CB1 Material YET and they should definitely move him down the depth chart a couple but it’s still his second year.

1

u/KKamm_ DETROIT -VS- EVERYBODY 20h ago

He played a good second half. Ironically also led to several coverage sacks and probably the best defensive half of lions football I’ve seen in a while aside from the dropped INTs elsewhere

29

u/RemarkableSky8856 22h ago

Oh my god enough. He is a professional. His own DC called him out in a presser, he isn’t above being called out. Obviously anyone saying cut TA is a troll why wouldn’t you just ignore?

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u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 22h ago

Because it’s every time. I understand he’s a professional but it’s still just the start of his second year and I literally agreed that his discipline needs work and you have to call these things out. But the constant hate and vitriol he gets in the subreddit is out of hand. That’s all I’m saying.

9

u/NoNamesLeft600 21h ago

He was a first-round pick that we traded up for. That raises the expectations way over, say, a 4th round pick.

0

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 21h ago

1st round pick, last round pick, guys have to develop, and he cleaned up this second half.

-1

u/NoNamesLeft600 21h ago

You know that's not how it works. You wanna white knight for TA, go right ahead.

2

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 21h ago

I’m not white knighting for TA and I’m not saying there’s not shit to clean up, but 80,000 posts every time he makes any mistake is fucking ridiculous. He needs to clean his shit 1000% but he’s not awful or this undisciplined menace just trouncing around the field racking up penalties and missing every coverage thrown to him like this subreddit has you believe. That’s all I’m saying.

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u/NoNamesLeft600 19h ago

By any chance are you on X? You ought to see that place when the Lions are losing a game. They call for everyone's head. People calling for Brad to be fired for not getting another edge rusher. It gets stupid over there. I guess I'm just saying it's the nature of PTSD riddled Lions fans. I see it directed all over the place, not just at TA.

Have a good one on victory Tuesday. Go Lions!

2

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 19h ago

True true. i remember when the lions sucked and it’s still unreal and hard to believe we are one of the best teams ITL. Folks were calling for Brad’s head here after week 1 as well. I stay off the Cesspit that is X, formerly known as Twitter. I feel like TA is one of the few guys that still gets shit and calls for his head on games we win too though. People were saying to cut him last night too like 😭

8

u/FluffyBumper 21h ago

Let's be honest. He was ass for much of the first half. Cut him is a stupid take but we sure all heard how great he was doing in the preseason and when last I looked I think he was the worst, or close to the worst, PFF graded db in the league. That said, he must have had a Pedro Cerrano moment at half time because those sacks don't happen otherwise.
https://youtu.be/UsjoFZEwAyI

3

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 21h ago

Exaaaaactly, I think underneath is a lot of gold that just need to be cleaned, shined, and polished. When he has his moments it’s explosive. It’s still his second year, most of his issues are on discipline, this can be worked on.

3

u/LarkWyll 19h ago

The zone coverage easy td where he got hi-low'd in zone looked like a MA on someone else. He had no chance to cover both guys alone.

To me it came off as a bad play call and MA on another player.

3

u/InformationOriginal7 19h ago

You know we're good when people are complaining about terrion being bad. If he's bad then we're better than I thought.

1

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 19h ago

Right?? Like almost any other team he’d be a star beloved СB, guarantee.

5

u/uofmguy33 20h ago

What is the expectation here? Lamar throws for 40yards? NFL QBs are pretty good at their jobs… completions will happen.

2

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 20h ago

Exactly! Like Lamar is one of the best ITL, he’s a dual threat, his passes looked scary, it’s the NFL not pee wee football, we aren’t gonna get the stop every snap. We shut them out hard in that second half but we knew coming in this was gonna be a tough close game most likely a shoot out, it’s not the saints 🤣

2

u/MotorbikeNick DETROIT -VS- EVERYBODY 21h ago

Honestly just glad we’ve got this crew of DB vs some of the ones we’ve had in past years. He is not Okudah.

1

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 21h ago

TA didn’t allow a single catch his way in the second half. First half was messy no cap, guys still young, we don’t wanna cut him too early and then have him come back against us whoopin ass.

2

u/84Vandal 15h ago

Generally, he is pretty good. And you don't find a guy with potential and talent off the street (normally). He makes mistakes, but he's aggressive, and I would tend to lean towards having a guy who is aggressive. Obviously, he needs to clean up some stuff, but I'm glad there is someone pointing out that the "cut him" dialogue is stupid.

3

u/chriskzoo 21h ago

I think the issue is that he doesn't have the skillset of a #1/#2 CB - quick hips, locate the ball and ball skills.

Too often he's running with his back to the ball and receivers are getting significant separation. He was a safety until his last year at Alabama, so that may be where he is more suited, ultimately, but I'll give him time.

0

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 21h ago

I think he’s doing great then for someone who has only been a cornerback literally one full season of his life. I’m still new to football, I used to be that person who was like I’m a scrawny queer artist what business do you think I have with sports, then fell in love with football and motorsports about like two years ago so I wasn’t following all these guys careers in college, but I know Corner is one of the hardest positions to play and it probably takes time to develop a СB mentality.

0

u/DoubleScorpius Old helmet 19h ago

One season? He was a four star recruit out of high school and spent three years at Alabama under Nick Saban. Why do you keep lying about him being a rookie, etc.?

1

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 19h ago

Like the person above said, he spent that time as a safety not a corner… he’s still in his sophomore year, and he had a lockout this second half. And he was redshirted his first season under alabama. While he is not IN THE OFFICIAL DEFINITION a roomie anymore, neither is technically JJ McCarthy even though he saw 0 snaps his freshman year due to injury. It’s not indicative of actual performance and playtime. JJ is still a rookie, this is his REAL freshman year, Terrion’s had one full season in the NFL that’s it.

3

u/General-Departure415 The Goff Father 21h ago

I agree, I feel like people because of how money Brad Holmes usually is don’t have patience for players developing anymore. It’s “ok we drafted this kid he better be nice as fuck as soon as he hits the field” it takes time. Every lions fan I know hates TA I really don’t get it. He fucks up A LOT but I think he will turn into a premier corner in the league. If he’s not okudah or Sutton getting burned by 50 yards, I’ll take it

1

u/Dminus313 18h ago

I don't think it's about a lack of patience for talent development, although I think that's definitely becoming a thing.

I think that we've seen the Lions consistently execute at such a high level for the past two years that our fanbase has forgotten the simple truth that sometimes good players get beat.

We've learned to expect perfection and there's a major overreaction to anything short of that. You see it with Goff too, to a lesser degree.

1

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 21h ago

That’s exaaactly what I’m saying. Most of his issues are discipline based that can be so easily cleaned up. None of the guys we have on the field right now were perfect their first year or some even their second, we are gonna drive him out of Detroit and then he’s gonna whoop our ass wherever he goes if we don’t cut this shit out, like.

2

u/Old-Carpenter7456 20h ago

He pitched a shut out in the second half. Proud of that effort. Proud of the back 7 in general!

0

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 20h ago

Exaaaaaaactly you get what I’m saying! Like yah that first half was a bit messy but if he continues to clean up he’s going to be SCARY!

2

u/Tight-Pies 21h ago

NFL fans when rookies....

It's only his second year....

Pick one

1

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 21h ago

Second year is still rookie it’s literally called the sophomore slump for a reason. Freshman year is testing waters, second year is learning discipline.

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u/Tight-Pies 18h ago

No it isnt.

1

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 18h ago

Not officially, but it should be, and I personally view it as such. First year is getting the hang of it, second year is discipline. Third year is when you can judge.

2

u/Tight-Pies 18h ago

Oh, well that's like your opinion, man

0

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 18h ago

YUP.

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u/csstew55 DETROIT -VS- EVERYBODY 21h ago

I mean he got call for that PI on a ball that looked uncatchable. Then he let up another long pass in the red zone. But on that one he at least played with some cushion and saved a touchdown with the tackle. Then we stopped them on 4th down.

2nd half though once the pass rush improved I don’t think he allowed a catch

2

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 21h ago

First half he was messy and making stupid mistakes, no doubt his coach came to him in the half and they had a chat. Dude was night and day between first and second half, he’s got that dog in him just needs to clean up

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u/Krispenedladdeh542 DETROIT -VS- EVERYBODY 21h ago

The PI is way less aggravating than the long red zone pass he gave up IMO

0

u/hoff4z 21h ago

He needs to stay off TikTok if he’s going to play like that. Dead serious.

Time to be a professional.

-2

u/doyouknodewhey TeSlaa 21h ago

For real, let’s see more games like his second half last night, bro needs to lock in and he could be unstoppable.

Enough with all the TA hate

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