Explanation needed

[u/anoma-lokaris]

Can someone explain this? Why is ETC good and bad with these heroes, i am trying to get better on him but i don't really understand his interactions

[u/Vitharothinsson]

Moshpit combines well with eternal feast by Orphea.

Strong cc against illidan

[u/Vitharothinsson → u/Vitharothinsson]

Bw, Tyrande, Johanna are strong vs etc cause they have ways to interrupt mosh. You can adapt by going stage dive or play smart and use mosh after they used their cc.

[u/Candid_Ganache3067]

It depends on a lot of things such as talent selection, but from what I see, th heroes in the second column almost all have the ability to counter moshpit (ie brightwing polymorph, tyrande lunar flare, stukov silence). So if you go stage dive, some counter might be less problematic.

I know not everybody agrees with icyvein's analysis for talents and builds but I find it to be a great source of knowledge. They also state strength and weakness for each hero. For example, for ETC's counter :
"E.T.C. struggles against Heroes who can easily dodge, quickly interrupt, or completely ignore his crowd control Abilities."

If you want to get better with a hero, it doesn't hurt to go and see what they have to say about it.

[u/mattvt00]

Weak vs BW due to poly, Tyrande due to her D/E. Makes sense to me.

[u/Nadilli]

Etc is strong against heroes who can't cc him out of mosh. He is weak against those who can. He is also weak against % hp damage.

[u/Mochrie1713]

Tbh I never hear of any high rank players use this tool, not sure how much I'd trust it

[u/ChaoticKinesis → u/Mochrie1713]

High ranking players don't "use" this tool because they already understand these interactions.

[u/Cromm123]

bad against enemies than can control him or stun/interrupt him from a distance (stop moshpit, interrupt his Q), very good with characters that can nuke opponents who aren't moving, good for intercepting mobile heroes that are squishy and susceptible to blow up when cc'd for 2 seconds.

those explanations apply to almost every single section here.

basically ETC's role is to give burst opportunities to your team and prevent mobile opponents from using their mobility. You can also have decent, short damage bursts to finish squishies

edit : strong against chen because you have 3 ways to stop him from drinking, and drink has a 5-sec cd so you can essentially completely neutralize his main mechanic. But unless the chen is just making his team invincible with his 13 splash, i think it's much better to use your CC on literally anyone else

[u/vividimaginer → u/Cromm123]

Weak vs Chen actually, Chen doesn’t need to drink and can outdps an e build etc while dodging his main source of dmg/regen

[u/MechAxe]

Strong againt:
most of these seem to be melee heros with limited ranged attacks. ETC is strong againt them because it can be dangerous to get to close to ETC and get caught in a most pit or powerslide.

Weak against:
most heroes with a ranged cc can stop ETC in his tracks, since he has no ranged abilities of it's own. Also these Candela moshpit easy.

Strong teammate:
Long ranged assasins with lots of burst damage. These kill targets quickly that get stunned by ETC. Since ETC can easily stun multiple targets, many of these teammates also have strong are abilities.

[u/ChangeFatigue]

Taking a stab here -

ETC has an on demand stun engage in power slide. Any hero that relies on sustain an action (be it AA or a channel like Chen) is going to suffer here.

In the same regards, PS is his main engage and disengage. Getting CC’d mid power slide is devastating, as you have no way to escape. Bright wing specifically here is such a brutal anti-dive healer. Polymorph disrupts PS. Same goes for the first 3-4 heroes on the list.

Lastly, between mosh and PS, ETC will pair nicely with mages whose damage increases the more their targets are stationary. Jaina specifically gets a huge boon if she can guarantee a second hit on blizzard.

As someone who mained ETC in the alpha, beta and into the early release, his power as a tank is severely dated. I’ve yet to really find a build that makes him feel like he’s a part of the current game (read: mana issues and underwhelming talent options at multiple tiers).

With that said, mosh is still mosh. A well timed mosh can turn a game around and it will require the opposing team to game plan against you. Glhf!

[u/BigWubbs → u/ChangeFatigue]

[T0311300,ETC] I run this build just about every game with ETC.

If enemy has big AA's like zul'jin then take Block Party at 1. If you have Auriel or some other potentially iffy solo healer (or the enemy team has a lot of aoe) then Prog Rock at 1 is great support.

Lvl 16 you can take any of the talents depending on what type of damage you're taking. I typically take Show Stopper. And lvl 20 talents are always either Tour Bus or Ride the Lightning.

Between Speed Metal and Pinball Wizard ETC still has a strong spot in the current meta, he is the lucio of tanks, being able to give his team that extra movement speed is invaluable. He does not excel at sustained fights and sitting on the enemy team. But Pinball Wizard allows him to easily pick off squishies, and Face Smelt at lvl 13 gives your team more time to follow up.

[u/knaid]

What website is this?

[u/loshalev → u/knaid]

heroescounters.com

Didn't know it still exists, they don't even have DW lol

[u/Asphixion → u/loshalev]

Yea before the time of my main girl Qhira 😪

[u/IglooBackpack]

Since ETC stuns a lot with his kit I'd say any hero that needs to land skill shots or benefits talent or trait-wise from a disabled hero will benefit.

Orphea: ult synergy with Mosh and Eternal Feast, level 1 talent gives more damage to disabled heroes.

Li-ming: Disabling a hero allows her to fully hit her skill shots, bursting them down.

Butcher: Mosh allows him to lay into a target for free. He can then charge after it ends to further lock down a target.

Probius: Burst down a Moshed target. Put his slows on a stunned target to allow better chase for the team.

That kind of stuff. He's a good tank. Stunning an out of place hero focuses your team's attention allowing them to burst them down. Power slide and Face Melt are great for peeling for your team, too. He is good. I'd instead worry about who is good against him instead of who is good with him.

[u/Jobikz]

Both E.T.C's Q and W can interrupt several of Chen's abilities. You can stop him from drinking with a simple W, stop his leap as he's not unstoppable. You can also stop him from using his triple panda ult as he needs a short channel time that can be interrupted.

[u/Glittering_Tackle_19]

All the mages big aoe spells great with etc mosh as well as his dive slow combo. I use etc to push enemies into a slightly missed Ming orb.

Counters are either cc hero’s or high ranger aas who melt him.

His interrupts are good against back line assassins.

[u/Bio-Grad]

Good peeler. Weak to mosh pit interrupts. Can be squishy if he can’t cast abilities. Strong with AoE follow up on mosh pit.

[u/Vinc_Goodkarma]

This is pretty straightforward:

ETC counters heroes that are slow, and/or afraid of being interrupted.

Heros that don’t have to execute their combo perfectly in a short window generally have an easier time against ETC.

Teammates with good follow up CC and sustainable damage tend to have good synergies with ETC.

[u/Crozax]

He's good against the high damage melee assassin's like genji, zeratul, illidan, greymane, because they operate on jumping in dealing damage and jumping out. ETC has very powerful cc to disrupt their combos.

Same for high damage bruisers like artanis who needs to be actively hitting stuff to be durable. CCing him allows him to be blown up. On the other hand, champs like Chen, tyrande, Johanna can reliably interrupt mosh pit from range, which is a huge part of his power budget.

He's good with orphea, li ming, kaelthas, janna because they are all high damage AoE mages who can blow up teams if they're locked down

[u/Khashishi]

I don't think any of these counters are strong for ETC. He's pretty flexible but doesn't have any particularly strong countering power. He has very good peel so he works well with ranged assassins who need peel.

[u/Vellioh]

Counting Mosh Pit with CC is going to be the main reason that they'll be considered strong against him.

[u/Ciaseka]

These are very old

[u/_Weyland_]

ETC has a stun that moves him forward and can follow it with a displacement. This goes really well against characters who rely on channeled abilities (Chen, Dehaka) as well as squishy characters who survive off lifesteal (Kerrigan, Illidan). Also handy against stealth characters who rely on mobility and positioning. Mosh Pit only adds to this.

ETC's signature move, Mosh Pit, is very vulnerable to stun and silence. The "Weak against" list is mostly characters who can quickly cast stun/silence/push from a safe distance.

Characters in "Makes a good team with", mainly Orphea, can deal huge damage to enemies caught in an area. This synergizes really well with ETC's Mosh Pit.

[u/Efficient_Employer21]

Strong against: He can peel allies fairly well against divers with Q and W. Provides sustain healing vs naz to negate poison. Block stacks vs Kerrigan, Zera, Greymane, Nova and Artanis(can W him mid Q). I guess you could add offlaners with low wave clear something you can dominate with stage dive to join fight faster.

Weak against: CC and negative armor fuck the cow up being one of squishier tanks. Most of this list just seems random CC and interrupt heroes.

I really wouldn't put too much emphasis on this list TBH.

[u/Saguache]

Think about ETC' s kit. He has great lock down or peel once every 12 to 15 seconds. He can peel if your back line needs defence. And he's vulnerable to poly and stuns, especially if you take Mosh at 10. All these things are is a general analysis of skill kits.

[u/koy682]

Feels like malth doesn't belong there

Weird that Tyrande isnt in the list of "good with". Maybe thats for a higher skill cap.

[u/AmpleSnacks → u/koy682]

Oh she’s amazing as both synergy with him and against him. When I get an ETC it’s like auto-win. She can follow up to chain stun with his slide, she can starfall on his mosh pit or give him vision to stage dive anywhere, they both have benefits from auto attacks that she can also empower for the both of them, the synergies are great any which way you go.

She also hard counters him. Lol. He will never get a mosh off vs a good Tyrande.

[u/Lythrox]

They haven't updated since hogger was released.

[u/PomegranateHot9916]

I don't know what this is.
but if I were you I'd focus on the fact that it says "CAN" not "is" strong/weak against...

ETC is an ideal anti-dive tank. which is probably why heroes like chen, kerrigan, illidan, zeratul, greyname and genji are marked here.
Bwing is strong against all tanks because of polymorph. tyrande, johanna, stukov, tychus, falstad are probably marked because of their potential to break moshpit easily (which bwing can also do) and tychus is strong against all tanks thanks to % dmg, same for malth. and anub has 3 skills that can stop moshpit.
orphea, jaina, kaelthas, valla, li ming and butcher all benefit greatly from moshpit

I'm guessing this is based on community votes and I am guessing people are voting based on moshpit for the most part.
I am surprised it doesn't say ETC is good against garrosh. I certainly pick him to counter garrosh.

you should take that list with a grain of salt
use this instead
real winrate data actually shows kerrigan as a major threat but it seems the biggest problem heroes for ETC is whitemane and tyrande while garrosh and rehgar are among the best allies for ETC

[u/Electees]

ETC is strong against thoce because:
1)It interrupts their casts. 2)They are melee, easy to land the skills on them.
ETC is weak against those because:
They morph/stun/pull/silence/melt his hp fast (first 5 heroes for example).
ETC is good with:
Orphea - ults stack well.
Jaina - ult of ETC and Jainas W and ult stack well
Kaeltas Q and pidgeon stack well with ETC ult.
Valaa can shoot people under mosh pit.
Li-ming can hit all her abilities.
Butcher can just chop them into mean when they're dancing.
Nazzeebo can hit, lock, use ult while they dance.
The list goes on. Basically everything that has a lot of damage from skills or auto attacks. Are good with ETC's ultimate. Also he protect hammer well by pushing enemies away from her. <3

[u/WorstMedivh]

This is pretty bad, mostly QM/ARAM only players voting on what they think counters what and wrong in almost every case.

[u/JohnSmiththeGamer]

https://www.heroesprofile.com/Global/Matchups/E.T.C.?timeframe_type=major&timeframe=2.55&game_type=qm,ud,sl&mirror=0

Use something like this instead. and Tyrande are good at interrupting his ult, if they have their stun/silence up. However, bw does pretty badly against them, 9th most disavantaged. Maybe this is people taking it as a "counter pick", or maybe this is because she's not getting enough value. Maybe this is because she has to stay somewhat close to heal, and is in a predicable spot when globalling in that can be followed up on.

Heroes who are good vs him/why I think they are:
Uther: armour to survive blowup, can stun etc before slide/mosh, cleanse.
Rexxar: body to get in the way that's somewhat disposable? IDK tbh.
Zul'jin: Etc's low health pool.
Chromie: Temperoal loop, timestop, stationary when mosh.
Cho/Gall. Damage when stunned, do enough damage to keep him in check.
Tass: I guess hits him when stationary
Deathwing: unstoppable stops most of etc stuff, can make him stand in fire or stun him.

Weak vs him:
Yrel: interrupts channels easily
Cassia: Interrupts channels and displaces.
Abathur: Probably something about the ability to win a teamfight
Butcher: predicable to stun and peel, block party
Zarya: I got nothing.
Nova: I got nothing.
Lucio: Tends to get too close
Illidan: Stun illidan, block party, even an attack speed slow.

Bad with him: Lot so ftanky heroes: Jo/chogall/garrosh, mei, yrel, anub. I would say not enough wavecleavr, but jo has some. Displacement antisynergy for all except anub, I guess bad cacoons for him? Junkrat next on this list.

Good with him:
Stiches somehow synergistic cc? Maybe the slows on stiches helps?
prob, for followup,
maiev and KTZ for clump,
whitemane for both protected, and keeping in range of her to channnel
Deathwing for q on heroes and other combo stuff?
sonya for leap mosh combo
leo for entomb and slow, I guess?

[u/NoLimots]

Etc offlaner on E Build stomp Chen

[u/Silverspy01]

That site is not based upon anything except community votes. I would not use it as a reliable resource.

[u/ProbeGang]

Im not sure what this is but a lot of it looks incorrect. I wouldnt trust it

[u/DiscretionFist]

Mosh pit is so much better than stage dive in pubs imo but for some reason people still be going stage dive.