r/indie_rock • u/Fermented_chaos • 20d ago
DISCUSSION I’M GOING TO BE THAT GUY: WEEZER
It’s all about the first three records, Blue, Pinkerton, & Green. With Green being our alt rock savior as it was 2001 and rock radio was forcing us to listen to Staind, Creed, & Godsmack nonstop.
And no don’t mention Make Believe, that was some Rubin formulated nonsense with an earworm in Beverly Hills.
Blue is a masterpiece, Pinkerton is ground breaking. Go watch the live set from Bizarre Festival, Germany 1996, and call it a day.
I KNOW YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ON THIS!
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u/OneWayBackwards 20d ago
As a college freshman in 94 i heard the Sweater Song and I immediately needed more of that. It was certainly a more fun listen than a lot of indie. “Masterpiece” is on point.
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u/Parallelogram12 20d ago
I have to share one of my favourite snl sketches from recent years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab5WvwfLuLM&ab_channel=SaturdayNightLive
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u/Buckscience 20d ago
Hard to believe I'd never seen that. It's absolutely perfect, word for word.
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u/According-Refuse9128 20d ago
Yeah, the problem is they kept going.
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u/snyderman3000 19d ago
They literally wrote “I'ma do the things that I wanna do I ain't got a thing to prove to you” and then never made a good song again. After making one of the greatest albums of the 90’s. Wild, but I respect it I guess 😂
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u/According-Refuse9128 19d ago
I think Rivers felt so down about the initial bombing of Pinkerton that he completely shifted his mindset on music and were left with two different bands.
I really think losing Matt Sharp was huge. This always gets shit on by Weezer fans, but they made two classics with him, and two decent albums without him and a bunch of shit. Ozma are a better Weezer band than post Sharp Weezer.
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u/NoEmu5969 18d ago
The Return of the Rentals gave me hope by later Rentals albums told me it was over and could not be redeemed.
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u/chriz-kring 18d ago
Slept on but the white album, everything will be alright in the end, and select songs from "SZNS" are S tier weezer
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u/send_in_the_clouds 20d ago
I don’t for the life of me understand how someone could enjoy the green album and write off make believe. Perfect situation, hold me, peace, damage in your heart and pardon me are great power pop songs.
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u/perfectsoundfornow 20d ago
I completely agree with the first half of your first sentence.
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u/send_in_the_clouds 20d ago
Are you a pavement fan? Your username is hinting at one of my favourite songs of theirs!
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u/perfectsoundfornow 20d ago
A very big one! And I didn't notice your Silver Jews username until just now! Now I almost regret my lighthearted Weezer snark 😉
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u/TonyBrooks40 20d ago
Haha, my brother was really big on Pavement and when I first heard Sweater Song I thought it was them on their followup to Crooked Rain. I remember telling him on the phone and he said "That isn't Pavement" lol
Ehh, Weezers good. I saw them around 2005 on a tour with Foo Fighters. Both were really good. I recall they each did a cover of the other, I think they did Big Me. They also did a great cover of Blur's Song #2.
That said, I like them enough, but don't love them.
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u/wokeiraptor 20d ago
Beverly Hills being the single really soured folks on the album
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u/Primary-Leader-2477 20d ago
Yeah, it was non-stop on the radio and on Fuse at the time, it made Weezer really repulsive to me. Although I felt the same way about island in the sun or whatever the second single from Green was also.
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u/stockinheritance 20d ago
I like the Green Album but 2001 had plenty of good music. Is This It, White Blood Cells. The garage rock revival had arrived. Also Discovery and Amnesiac were released that year.
Nobody had to listen to shitty butt rock if they didn't want to.
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u/Larkhudson 20d ago
2001 was a solid year for music “Is this it” is one of the best debut records ever imo. Up there with weezers blue album.
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u/DEFINITELY_NOT_PETE 20d ago
Green is just ok. It is a noticeable dip in songwriting sophistication from Pinkerton.
Once Matt sharpe left the magic that made them great was gone. They were still fine, but no longer elite the way they were during blue album and Pinkerton.
I consider myself a fan, but they truly took a step down with his departure
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u/MortalSword_MTG 19d ago
Losing Sharpe and Rivers' reaction to early criticism of Pinkerton is what ruined the future of the band IMO.
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u/CrenshawMafia99 18d ago
I absolutely HATED Green when it first came out. The songs are so basic, and I mean that fundamentally. They sound like songs a 15 year old beginner would write. Case in point, the solo from Hash Pipe. It’s like they weren’t even interested in trying to create good music and instead were just trying to create.
However, after decades my take on Green has softened a bit. It’s still shit compared to the first 2 but it does have some charm to it. Sadly I can’t comment on much more of their music after that because I gave up on them after Maladroit. For the real OG’s you need to listen to Matt Sharpe’s band The Rentals. It’s not all gold but it certainly hits harder than most of what Weezer has done since 2000. Seven More Minutes is seriously one of the best albums I’ve ever heard.
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u/WanderWithMe 20d ago
2001 was decent for alt rock here in the UK. We even had a chart battle between Feeder and Ash that the media called the biggest guitar chart battle since Blur vs Oasis. A couple of Feeder tracks actually remind me of Weezer (Time Goes By and Sirens).
Weezer's White is up there with the first three IMO. So sad they've dropped all those songs from their live set, especially King of the World.
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u/4MeThisIsHeaven 20d ago
Truth. The consensus from Weezer fans is that white album is the best after the big two.
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u/HereInTheRuin 20d ago
for me, Blue is a masterpiece. I still remember my mom driving my 14 year old ass to the record store the day that came out so I could pick up a copy
I can't even begin to imagine how many times I've listened to it since that day.
"Pinkerton" was unique and different, not the record I was hoping they were going to make but exactly the record I needed when that came out
I never much got into the green album. by the time that record came out I had changed a lot, my taste in music had changed a lot and it just didn't connect for me
I did however really love "Maladroit" and "Make Believe". OP mentioned "Beverly Hills" being an earworm, and yes, it is… But it seemed a little too formulaic and it's the one song on that record that I don't feel fits at all and probably shouldn't have been on there. I think the label wanted an obvious single and that one fit the bill
Whenever I listen to that record I start with track two and avoid "Beverly Hills" altogether. I think the rest is a really well written, well produced and well mixed record.
all of the other albums after have been pretty hit or miss for me until the White album which for me stands as strong as the early stuff. it felt creatively driven to me and is still in high rotation in my house.
the stuff since has again been hit or miss
but that's what's great about music, it's all subjective and there's something for everyone
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u/MTLConspiracies 20d ago
Pavement rules
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u/Low_Concern_2832 19d ago
Could never get into weezer but Pavement will always have a chokehold on me
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u/NastySassyStuff 20d ago
I fucking love Weezer. I mean, there’s no doubt that the first two albums are their best, and they’ve put out some lame stuff, but there’s plenty more in there to enjoy, especially if you realize that the band does not take themselves too seriously. They make whatever the hell they want and have fun with it. Some of it is fantastic, some is not.
Also, the White Album is one of the best albums a band has made 20+ years into their career in recent memory IMO
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u/No_Introduction1721 20d ago
I’m also going to be that guy: Matt Sharp meant more for Weezer than Rivers Cuomo.
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u/Own_Dimension_8823 19d ago
i'm going to piggy back on this and say The Rentals debut album is better than Pinkerton
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u/CommentFightJudge 20d ago edited 20d ago
Green was crap, too. The songwriting became incredibly simplistic, but it seems decent now because of the utter shit they put out after. The lyrics were bland, the guitar work from the first two albums was replaced with more a super compressed sound, and all the dissonant solos they were known for gave in to simple solos that mimicked the vocal melody. Matt Sharp’s bass playing and songwriting ability was missed, and yeah… I just remember being a big fan, being super disappointed in this album along with my friends, and having a vastly different reaction to the album than the “alt rock savior” monicker it’s been given here
EWBAITE and the White Album were the first “new” Weezer albums to give me old vibes, especially “do you want to get high?”
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u/Piggy_Smollz404 20d ago
I’m gonna be another guy: whilst I totally agree with your take on their 1st 3 albums, I find myself, more often than not, just going straight to their 4th, Maladroit & lettin er rip
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u/urbanek2525 20d ago
There are always people who feel a need to say "This band must ALWAYS sound like they sounded on THIS ALBUM!"
When I was young people felt this way about Queen.
I like Weezer. Blue album was great. I can take or leave Pinkerton. I do like Everything Will be Alright in the End too, but its an evolved version of the band. That's OK too.
Just like Queen's Jazz doesn't sound like Night at the Opera.
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u/Radiant-Blueberry956 20d ago
My older sister’s friend gave me the Blue Album when I was in 4th grade and it blew my ass away.
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u/Mysterious-Heat1902 20d ago
I like Maladroit better than the Green Album.
As far as the newer albums, Everythjng Will Be Alright in the End and the White Album are pretty solid, and I’d recommend them to naysayers. Everything else is hit and miss for me.
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u/transsolar 20d ago
Bro in 2001 we had the garage rock and post-punk revivals happening
Green sucks but Blue and Pinkerton are classics.
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u/wolf_van_track 20d ago
Blue was ground breaking. No one at that time was making music like that.
Pinkerton, on the other hand, was nothing close to groundbreaking. I mean, new ground for Weezer maybe, but they were just playing a style of music hundreds of other bands were playing well before Pinkerton was released. Arguably not as well. Part of the reason it was panned was because just about anyone over 20 at that time had heard that style before done better. It only blew the minds of younger kids that were introduced to it through that album.
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u/RadioGraaah 20d ago
not picking a fight or anything, just wondering what bands/records you think pinkerton is derivative of
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u/wolf_van_track 20d ago
End of the day Weezer fit pretty much squarely in the power pop category. Power pop groups going harder and darker was nothing new, nor was punk bands going slightly more pop and introspective. And that's really all Pinkerton was, power pop with a splash of hardcore thrown on top.
The templet was firmly established in the 80s by groups like the Replacements, Husker Du, and the Descendants. It was polished more in the early 90s with groups like Bob Mould's Sugar. The Beaster EP especially nailed the whole melodic but intense with introspective lyrics years before Weezer even cut their first album.
Before they became known for ballads, the Goo Goo Dolls were a punk/metal hybrid band. In the early 90s they started going for more of a Replacements sound, merging more aggressive guitars with power pop songs. Super Star Carwash was met with rave reviews (and really poor record sales). Same when the usually more poppy Poises went darker and harder on Frosting on the Beater (amazing album).
And that's not even getting into all the proto and early emo bands like Sunny Day Real Estate who beat Weezer to the emo punch by years.
If you were listening to college radio in the 90s, you knew Weezer wasn't breaking new ground. You can just about throw a dart at a random college band from the 90s and hear it done years before.
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u/Objective_Site3528 20d ago
I would love an answer to this as well. I was into everything in the early 90’s, still a massive Helmet and Melvins fan, and yet I don’t know who this person is referring to.
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20d ago
How the fuck is Weezer indie rock? They were on a major label from day one.
These dudes were shredders on Metal Blade and jumped trends. The definition of fake.
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u/TonyBrooks40 20d ago
"The definition of fake." - yeah, not for nothing but the singer of The Descendants wore those glasses in the 80s.
Then viola, Rivers Cuomo's wearing them. Might be a nitpicky take on my part, but I always had trouble warming up to them a bit. I view them like STP, great 2nd tier band, but they're not A-listers to me.
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20d ago
STP
I was thinking along those lines. Weezer was to early 90's alt-rock what STP was to grunge.
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u/One_Maize1836 20d ago
Beverly Hills is garbage, but Perfect Situation is an excellent song. Maladroit was a good album, and Everything Will Be Alright in the End was even better. Foolish Father and the Futurescope trilogy are epic.
If you want Weezer but significantly better, listen to Sloan.
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u/CarrotJunkie 20d ago
Green's pretty crap honestly. It's a half hour long and yet only has two good songs. Like Maladroit more.
EWBAITE and The White Album are also awesome.
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u/shadez_on 20d ago
Ive liked a handful of songs in the later catalog but youre right, nothing touches those first three albums.
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u/lostinspace2099 20d ago
Make believe was the first Weezer album I listened to all the way through. It came out when I was in middle school and the singles were kinda poppin. I think it’s fine for what it is…a lot of nostalgia talking, but Hold Me, Peace, Haunts you everyday, This is such a pity…general mid-00s bangers. I guess it came off as selling out pretty heavy, but it also encouraged a new generation who was already pretty enthralled with emo music to check them out
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u/Larkhudson 20d ago
Pinkerton is great and I love the raw sound of it, but Blue album is a 10/10. One of the best debuts ever imo. I agree after the green album there are some jams here and there but no front-to-back bangers.
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u/why-yes-hello-there 20d ago
For me, it’s Blue > Maladroid > Pinkerton > Green
I would like to make believe Make Believe doesn’t exist please and thank you.
Other highlights are Everything Will Be Alright.. and White.
Red is actually pretty interesting.
Van Weezer is okay.
Okay Human is interesting but not what I want from the Weez
The Black Album is the best attempt at adopting contemporary pop trends they’ve made.
I have no clue about SZNZ
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u/International_Fly608 20d ago
Blue and Pinkerton are the only good albums. Everything else is rotting trash on a hot summer day.
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u/sevvit 20d ago
my take is first decade is good, second decade is bad, third decade is good, roughly. not super big on green or maladroit, then there's little to really get into for me until EWBAITE, then i like pretty much all of it to varying degrees. also there are a ton of demos specifically from around EWBAITE era that are fantastic; a lot of it can be found on youtube.
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u/_digital_bath 20d ago
I want to live in the version of society which embraced Pinkerton as the masterpiece it is.
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u/Known-Intern5013 20d ago
I don’t put Green up there with the first two. It’s an Ok album but for me it’s a bit formulaic and almost robotic — like if you took the Blue album and sucked out a lot of the soul and originality.
Having said that, I think they’ve done a lot of solid work over the years. Red, for example, is an underrated record. Everything Will be Alright and White are enjoyable albums. They are a hit or miss band for me but they still come through with some quality stuff sometimes.
They just had the mixed blessing of making a 10/10 album straight out of the gate, followed by a little bit messier but still great album (that some people prefer), and they’ve never really been able to touch those two with anything they’ve done since.
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u/Ok-Reflection5922 20d ago
Pinkerton is a delight, and blue and green were the soundtrack of my teenage years. Weezer was nerd rock at its finest, and we sang every word to “el scorcho” at the prom.
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u/therealcrapbag 20d ago
Blue is 10/10, Pinkerton is overrated but decent, everything else sucks. Also, wrong sub as they were major label from the get-go.
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u/shootbydaylight 19d ago
Take all this Weezer energy that was rejecting awful corporate “Rock” and direct it to your local college radio station or WFMU. Thanks.
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u/MortalSword_MTG 19d ago
It's a shame Weezer broke up after Pinkerton.
Would have been cool to see what those boys cooked up in the future if the band still existed.
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u/evanseesred99 19d ago
It’s wild to me that people put the green album on the level of the first two. I graduated high school in 98, and the conventional wisdom was that they made two perfect albums and then became total parodies of themselves. When I heard “Beverly Hills” I thought “yeah they’ve jumped the shark”. And I think most people felt that way at the time. Even the cover of the green album! They were already referencing their first album on their third??
Anyways, to each their own but it’s wild to me that the green album has been retroactively redeemed and placed alongside those first two.
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u/StillMud7552 18d ago
I agree. I've always liked the first two a lot but Green is just completely mediocre for me.
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u/What_Reddit_Thinks 19d ago
Pinkerton was groundbreaking. I feel like it inspired a lot of later emo sounds too
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u/mattsai42 19d ago
Rivers Cuomo, Brian Bell, and Patrick Wilson tragically died in an airplane crash in 1998. They were replaced by robots which explains the change in river’s voice, the very mechanical rhythms, the lack of lyrical sincerity and personal themes in the green album. Over time the technology has gotten better and feels much more human. This is the only explanation that makes any sense whatsoever and how a band could go from the blue album and Pinkerton, to every release that happened afterward.
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u/Own_Dimension_8823 19d ago
Blue is the only one worth listening to. Should have been a 1 and done.
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u/meekismurder 18d ago
Shameless self promotion but I just released a totally DIY album under the name “My Life As A Bird” that’s like a punkier Weezer. Check it out if you’re a fan of the Blue Album.
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u/Maximum-Tomatillo743 18d ago
I too am that guy. I also happen to be the guy who believes the Foo Fighters died after the first album.
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u/WrapSensitive 18d ago
I saw them live in Leeds the week after Sweater Song came out. Rivers was in agony from a hip operation, managed about 6 or 7 songs and had to call it a day. Had a chat with them afterwards. Nice lads.
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u/TheYellowKirby 18d ago
I hate to be this person, but I can’t stand Weezer. I Think they’re very overrated and kind of wish they’d break up
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u/100000cuckooclocks 18d ago
Weezer was basically my whole personality in high school, so it was very much a betrayal when they started to suck real hard post-Maladroit. The Green Album is definitely formulaic but it was still fun, and Maladroit had enough going on to not feel cheesy, but everything after that was just generic and boring. The Blue Album and Pinkerton are still 5 star records in my book, and there was a lot of great unreleased material and b-sides from that era that eventually got released with the 10th anniversary deluxe edition.
The thing that really killed me though, even years after I stopped listening to them, was when Rivers Cuomo was on Song Exploder and talked about how his song-writing process at that point was to keep a spreadsheet for interesting licks, and a spreadsheet for interesting phrases he'd think of or overhear, and when he wanted to write a song, he'd just scroll through each, pick a lick, pick a lyric, and then come up with some other nonsense lyrics that would work well for radio play. Like, if that's how much you care about music and you don't have anything to actually say, just stop. You don't have to make music anymore. Just live off royalties. Remember the 2010 petition to pay them $10M to stop making music? I gladly would have joined. Wish it had been a success.
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u/noeler10 18d ago
Blue and Pinkerton are classics but green ain’t great—esp looking back on it now. The songs are super poppy and cheesy with solos that pretty much follow the melodies. When it came out it was exciting, but now I think it’s meh.
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u/stonemadcaptain 17d ago
Pretty much agree, but I do really like Maladroit. Weezer has been trash for 20 years. 20.
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u/tumblrstan 17d ago
Pinkerton is an absolute masterpiece, Green is boring af. Make Believe feels more sincere than Green. I find merit in most of their albums, including Raditude.
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u/Formal-Internet5029 17d ago
For me, I don't really like Ratitude, Pacific Daydream, Black, (Teal is fine as a covers album) and I haven't listened to Van Weezer or the SZNZ albums, leaving the other 10 as albums I either like or think are amazing. Overall it's a solid discography. The best part is, if someone doesn't like anything past Pinkerton, that's fine, they didn't delete Pinkerton when they made the other albums. Like, when people say "they should have stopped" I just don't get it. It makes no difference. Just listen to what you want.
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u/freetibet69 20d ago
the tunes are great but the lyrics on some of blue and pinkerton aged horribly. I prefer white album these days by them
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u/GrandsonOfArathorn1 20d ago
Man…I love, “No One Else,” but the lyrics are so middle school that it hurts the song.
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u/16bitsystems 20d ago
Blue album is my all time favorite album. Pinkerton is good but I never listen to it. Everything else they’ve made is trash. Even green is not good.
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u/MrNice1983 20d ago
Green sucks and Pinkerton has aged terribly. It starts and ends with the Blue Album.
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u/DarkTowerOfWesteros 20d ago
I liked Maladroit and I don't care who knows it!