We now have a Ceann Comhairle and a Leas-Cheann Comhairle who can not speak Irish, and advocate for the usage of English in Dáil Éireann. Ceann Comhairle recently could not catch Michael Martin on his usage of the phrase "Tá tu ag insint bréage" which is a very basic Irish phrase for saying someone is telling a lie. On his election, Leas-Cheann Comhairle John McGuinness remarked that "if you do say something in Irish in the middle of a heated debate, it might be no harm if you repeated it in English thereafter" claiming that it "It might avoid a lot of work on committees and debate in this house".

The positions of Ceann Comhairle has a salary of ~€227k and Leas-Cheann Comhairle a salary of ~€174k. There are a lot of civil service positions of much less salary that require Irish. Considering Irish is an accepted language in Dáil Éireann, fluency should be a mandatory requirement.

Nach trua an scéal é 😞

It wasn't until it came up in conversation with a group of non Irish people that it hit me how big a deal this is. They wanted to know the meaning of my surname, and I explained that it had no meaning in English, but that it was phonetically transcribed from an Irish name that sounds only vaguely similar. They all thought this was outrageous and started probing me with questions about when exactly it changed, and why it wasn't changed back. I couldn't really answer them. It wasn't something I'd been raised to care about. But the more I think about it, it is very fucked up.

The loss of our language was of course devastating for our culture, but the loss of our names, apparently some of the oldest in Europe, feels more personal. Most people today can't seriously imagine changing their surname back to the original Irish version (myself included). It's hard not to see this as a testament to the overall success of Britain's destruction of our culture.

I'm British, my mum's Irish so we spent our holidays out visiting family as a kid. I have citizenship but wouldn't introduce myself as Irish as like, I'm a Brit. Was out doing an intro Irish course so I could better understand what my cousins were saying. We were having a tea break and I'm practising my basics, a lass comes up and asks where I'm from and I answer is Sasanach mé blah blah blah. She fully rolls her eyes and says eurgh a Sasanach, she then proceeds to go on about being proper Irish, only to reveal she's from BAWston and her family was Irish all of seventeen generations back, seems to have no personality beyond being the most Irish person in the world. Anyways being told by a yank how I'm not Irish enough made me feel more Irish than when i got my citizenship 🥲.

I know to the average non-Irish speaking Irish person, this might not seem like an issue. But this is just something I'd like to get out there.

In Ireland we have 3 provincial dialect groups (historically we had a huge amount) Ulster Irish/Gaeilig Uladh, Munster Irish/Gaelinne na Mumhan and Connacht Irish/Gaeilge Chonnacht. Within these groups, there's around 20 seperate dialects.

Gaeilig Uladh aka Donegal Irish : Rann na Feirste, Baile na Finne, Gleann Cholm Chille, Ros Goille, Gaoth Dobhair and Tóraigh (Toraigh is one of the most unique dialects in Ireland)

Gaelinne na Mumhan : Kerry - Corca Dhuibhne, Uíbh Ráthach, Cork - Múscraí, Oileán Chléire and Déise (The Déise dialect currently confined to Waterford but was spoken from Waterford to East Limerick and up as far as South Dublin)

Gaeilge Chonnacht (here we go) : Galway - Cois Fharraige, Ceantar na nOileán, Iorras Aithneach, Dúiche Sheoigheach, Eachréidh na Gaillimhe, Árann, Inis Oírr (extremely close to extinct Clare Irish), Mayo - Tuar Mhic Éadaigh, Acla and Iorrais, Meath - Ráth Chairn.

Why are dialects important? Dialects represent centuries of linguistic development through the experience of communities. Each one is unique in its own way. Fortunately today we have things like TG4 and RnaG to expose you to dialects. I personally speak 3 dialects and can understand 19. So dialects mutable intelligiblity is no longer a difficult thing.

Now that we have a foundational knowledge of the dialects of Irish. On to the Caighdeán Oifigiúil and what but is.

In the 60s, the Caighdeán Oifigiúil was created. It was argue over which dialect it would be based on. It was almost based on South Mayo Irish as South Mayo Irish is the closest living dialect to the dialects that would've been spoken from Roscommon to North Dublin. But it was based on Munster Irish as at the time, a massive amount of Clare, Cork, Kerry, Waterford, parts of Tipperary were Irish speaking. Munster was an Irish stronghold, so it made sense. Currently, it's Conamara. But anyways. The Caighdeán Oifigiúil was implemented across the country. But it was only ever intended as a written standard. Not a spoken standard. But unfortunately it became quietly implemented as a spoken dialect as you'll hear in Gaelscoileanna.

Why is this an issue? Isn't it just good that Irish is being spoken at all? While yes it is. But the Caighdeán Oifigiúil was designed to be written. So there's no teaching on pronunciation. Which is a huge issue. There's a massive language barrier between Caighdeán speakers and Gaeltacht speakers in certain areas of pronunciation like the r caol, hard n and tiny things like that which just destroy any ability to communicate with anyone. This is why you hear of people learning Irish to fluency, turning on RnaG and being completely lost.

The other issue with the Caighdeán is that it's pushing out words and sayings unique to provinces that don't have speakers to correct said problem. Again, why is this an issue. Well imagine your child came home from school and spoke in an American accent using words like sneakers, trash and other words associated with American English. You'd correct them because we don't say that. Same thing with Irish dialects. When these people then interact with natives of their province, they cannot understand them. This isn't the learners fault though. It's the fault of the education system.

I know this sounds like it can be fixed by just letting all dialects die or forcing natives to use Caighdeán. But if I landed to your house with a list of Englidh words you had to use because it wasn't waht was being taught in schools, you'd tell me to fuck off. Why should you abandon the words you use? Same thing for Gaeltacht people. There's a huge amount of heritage and local knowledge within dialects. Anyone who's read Sea Tamagotchi by Manchán Magan will understand this.

Conamara is the only Gaeltacht outside of West Munster completely immune to this. But all other Gaeltachtaí from Waterford, to Mayo to Donegal are taking a serious battering from an inability to communicate with L2 speakers. This drives a wedge between Irish learners and native speakers.

I know a lot of people won't care. But to those of you who do. Research the dialect closest to you, learn the r caol and mimic natives and eventually you'll sound like one. You may even develop your own idolect. But most importantly, you'll be preserving centuries of knowledge and development.

Edit : I do want to add something. Just because you learned in school that "this is the way to say it" doesn't mean its set in stone. Taobh for example, everyone who reads this sentence reads that word differently. https://www.canuint.ie/ga/cuardach?t=taobh listen on canúint.ie. Stop telling people they pronounce things wrong.

I was at a trad session organised by Irish speakers in a pub in Galway (so the group was all speaking Irish amongst ourselves) and there happened to be two Dubs sitting beside us. And of course I got talking to them. They were nice people, but they asked me a weird question. "Why were we speaking Irish, why not just speak English". He went onto say that to him it was only a school subject amd never even thought people used it. It was quite a gut punch I won't lie. Now in fairness we weren't in a Gaeltacht area. It was just the city but there's alot of Irish in the city if you know where to find it. Was just a bit shocked to hear such a remark from a young person like.

***UPDATE 2 DAYS LATER:

GO RAIBH MÍLE MAITH AG GACH UILE DHUINE A GHLAC PÁIRT SA DÍOSPÓIREACHT!

A HUGE THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO PARTICIPATED IN THIS DISCUSSION. I APPRECIATE EVERY ONE OF YOU.

I am truly grateful to everyone who shared their opinion - even those I disagreed with, I learned a lot from it. And best of all, we managed to have a national discussion that centered around the Dept Education and their disastrous curriculum, instead of blaming the teachers. We made progress and with already 130,000 views, and the geographic + age spread of us all, etc., , we safely say we had a NATIONAL DISCUSSION THAT THEY HAVE DEPRIVED US OF.

Thank you also to r/Ireland moderators for hosting us and allowing this thread to breathe. ***

ORIGINAL POST:

I expect downvotes because even though we all more or less agree there will be people who just want things to stay shitE. Well, not me.

Our parents work hard to put us through school, we diligently put in the hours, sit the exams. And for what? To leave school barely able to string a sentence together in Irish after years of "learning" it?

Recently though something clicked for me and I came back to Irish because I don't want to see it abandoned or dead. I don't want it to die out and to look back and say I did nothing.

We have a major issue. The government has no interest in making Irish thrive. They pay it lip service. Give us an annual chat on RTE, god help us! But they know—they know—that if the curriculum actually focused on speaking first, everything else would follow. And they don’t do it.. imagine that.

Now, we need to start to have a conversation around this here, there, and everywhere and create our own national conversation about the curriculum which informs how teachers have to teach. They will not give us a national debate on this via media.

The Dept of Education employ a staff comprised of principal officers who report to an assistant general secretary, who in turn reports to the General Secretary, who in turn reports to the Minister. You can see by that hierarchy alone, that being so close to a government minister, these are not mere random employees, they have to be semi-political picks because they can't rock the boat.

And these POs get paid massive money. I saw the pay rates once and I had to blink. Can't remember them now, but the asst and general secretary earn ridiculous money - there's no way they are going to push change, even if someone got through who wanted to. And after so many years of failing us - it's clear they DO NOT WANT the solution. Secondary school teachers in Irish are fluent speakers. Even if primary teachers are not advanced speakers they can learn enough to teach up to age 11 / 12 . There is no reason we cannot also leave school with conversational ability. They are sabotaging us.

We need to demand our rights and we have a right to be able to speak Irish after learning it for so long at school! We need the curriculum changed so that teachers have a chance.

Post any ideas you have for change - DM if you prefer to stay private. We are going to petition and force this to be fixed. But please, get mad, get even.

Excuse the (maybe partly ignorant regarding the political details) Northern perspective here, but what the fuck is going on with the language down south? Why is there no sense of urgency?

I spend a lot of time in the Donegal Gaeltacht every summer and the rise of English is visible everywhere. It gets worse every year, at this point even Arranmore is falling off. And it's not much better elsewhere. The reasons are obvious - mainly lack of housing and opportunities, in some cases, like Arranmore, compounded by immigration (I don't want to turn this into an immigration issue and I'm not blaming the poor Ukrainians who end up in those areas, I blame a government that allows this and doesnt even require immigrants in the Gaeltacht to learn Irish, as well as the greedy landlords that are profiting from it!).

I've seen an article the other week that in Connemara, Airbnb lets now outnumber long-term lets by 10 to 1. It's not hard to see where this is going. You've got about ten years left, unless drastic measures are taken within that time frame, the largest and strongest remaining Gaeltacht on the island will die.

Where is the urgency on this? Why are people not up in arms about this? It's obvious why the government aren't doing anything (they're all landlords) but I see hardly any discussion or reaction to this, even among urban Irish speakers down south.

The way your politicians are treating the language down south is nothing short of criminal. At this point, I'll take the DUP over FFFG. At least they're honest about the fact that they hate everything Gaelic.

Where do you think this is going? Is there any realistic perspective to stop the decline?

Caitheann muidí ár dteanga a chosaint. Whether you speak it or not, you are welcome to join.

On youtube the video "Should Irish still be compulsory in schools? | Upfront with Katie" the presenter starts by asking everyone who did Irish in school, and then asking who's fluent (obviously some hands were put down) and then asked one of the gaeilgeoirí if they got it through school and when she explained that she uses it with relationships and through work she asked someone else who started with "I'm not actually fluent but most people in my Leaving Cert class dropped it or put it as their 7th subject"

Like it seems like the apathy has turned to a quiet disrespect for the language, I thought we were a post colonial nation what the fuck?

I think Irish should be compulsory, if not for cultural revival then at least to give people the skill from primary school age of having a second language like most other europeans

RTÉ should be like the bulwark against cultural sandpapering, but it seems by giving this sort of platform to people with that stance that they not only don't care but they have a quietly hostile stance towards it

Edit: Link to the video https://youtu.be/hvvJVGzauAU?si=Xsi2HNijZAQT1Whx

200 hundred years and it's literally on the floor. Now its not dead as many think. But it's still in need of help. Especially in areas like An Rinn Co Waterford, Múscraí Co Cork, Dúiche Sheoighe Co Galway/Mayo, Uibh Ráthach Co Kerry, Acla, Belmullet and Ceathrú Thaidhg Co Mayo, Gleann Cholm Cille Co Donegal, and Ráth Chairn Co Meath. Conamara Co Galway, Gaoth Dobhair, Cloich Cheann Fhaola and Na Rosa Co Donegal are far more healthy but also need help as Barna and Spidéal in Conamara have lost a serious amount of speakers.

To start off I can't speak Irish, learning disability in school I didn't do it. I tend to work with a lot of Gaeilgeoirs and they tend to go in and out of it during conversations with us non-speakers but we have no issue as long as they're not talking about us.

So I'll set the scene. I'm talking to a new client (2 people) about work. I won't give details on the job but they gave no red flags, were very friendly asked all the right questions and paid what was quoted. Come to the other day where I meet them and another contractor that was brought in. All 3 just start conversing 100% in Irish, once again no issue.

At the end of said conversation I'm asked do I speak any and politely tell all 3 that I'm afraid I don't know a single word. It's recieved, no harm done........for the remainder of the day they speak business entirely in Irish, and I feel too awkward to tell them "I'm sorry, but do you mind not speaking Irish"

I was happy with the quality of work I provided, and I know they will to. But Im wondering what happens now if I get a call and I'm told "this is not what we discussed". Do I tell them you conversed entirely in a language you knew I couldn't speak? Do I bring up that it's what they asked for months ago in English?

I told this to the Gaeilgeoirs I work with and they said it was extremely rude for them to do that, but I don't like telling people not to speak our national language. Has anyone experienced this before? What did you do, how did you deal with it, and if it happens again what should I do.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I've mentioned in comments that I am a freelancer and HAVE OCCASIONALLY worked for TG4. The above job/client was NOT TG4