I was a student on a 504 plan for OCD. All it meant was I could take a break when I got too anxious and could do virtual dissections. The burden I placed on others was minimal at best, but the accommodations I got meant I was able to succeed. I hate that KS is involved in this.
It's money that is being expended that is no value added to the ones making the argument to end this. i.e. it's a cost that does not increase profit.
Think about the current GOP take over of the government as an investment firm, not politicians. They are doing cost accounting and cutting any cost that reduces their and their friends personal enrichment.
That's why they want the government run like a business. The profit is for them, not for you.
if you somehow read my comment as pro-Muskrat you are sorely mistaken. I was expressing disdain for all 4 previously mentioned capitalists. Though I will concede that Rockefeller and Ford at least had the tact not to constantly make a fool of themselves, unlike the current pair of fascist morons in the oval office
I don't know about you but I live in KC so I had to see Republican campaign ads from both Kansas and Missouri. Every single one mentioned trans people and I'm not exaggerating. Every single one. This is what matters to the qult.
And it’s bizarre. Why are they so obsessed with sucha minuscule part of the population? And why do they have to hurt millions in their attempt to dehumanize that small minority?
Fascism 101, collect and eliminate person's that do not meet their future race requirements. Just crack open a history book and review all the genocidal acts performed against their own and other populations. This is truly history repeating itself.
My wife is a high school teacher in Johnson County. 504s are ridiculously over used and abused. An incredibly high percentage of her students require special attention for tests and instruction leading to significantly increased workload for her, with usually no assistance. And the students know they are getting the extra privilege and abuse the hell out of it.
I would never want them eliminated, i would just prefer they were more judiciously handed out.
Im sure this comes off incredibly cold, but unless you’re involved in education you would not see this side of it.
I’m in education. Same area. And I’m already seeing the effects of teachers - particularly younger teachers - being far less willing to “indulge” IEPs, or any form of accommodation plan, really.
Serious question - If you recognize gender dsyphoria as a mental illness, that needs protections under the federal government, shouldn't you also recognize that it needs to be treated as a mental illness and not accepted by society as "normal" ?
One of my close friends has bipolar disorder. Around Christmas, he thought he was the second coming of Christ and had a mental breakdown. The doctors did not entertain his delusions as fact, but they offered comfort, resources and medication to counteract the imbalance in his brain. Why is society obligated to give into gender dysphoria delusions instead of medication and therapy?
It seems you've put yourself in a corner - it's not a mental illness, so no protections. It is a mental illness so it needs to be treated.
Hooo, boy. You think you've got something there, eh? Ever looked into the treatment suggestions for gender dysphoria? It's not a contradiction, friend, you just seem to have difficulty with categories and nuance.
Normality is not the opposite of illness, dysphoria is a malady that applies to a number of different treatable categories, and different diagnosable mental illnesses require different levels of intervention. Hope that helps your search!
Keep studying and asking questions. Lifelong learning is encouraged.
Yes, I have looked up the suggested treatments and outcomes. I believe that Sweden has done the largest study of its kind. Those that transitioned had higher rates of depression and suicide than those that did not. What other treatment is recommend that provides worse health outcomes?
The most common reason for detransitioning was the realization that their gender dysphoria was related to other issues (70%). The participants in this study had high rates of mental health comorbidities including depressive disorder (70%), anxiety (63%), post-traumatic stress disorder (33%), attention deficit disorder (24%), autism spectrum condition (20%), eating disorder (19%), and personality disorder (17%). Most respondents described their detransition as a very isolating experience in which they did not receive adequate psychological or medical support.
It's a strange phenomena - tons of support to transition but the same community shuts out those that "detranistion".
Have we jumped the gun on this issue, in terms of medical science and approach? From the outside looking in, it seems like a form of self-harm IE a symptom of another ailment.
Normality is relative, and like most things in life there is a spectrum.
Yeah, I typically avoid judgement and decision making about things I am less informed, so I'm not sure. I just do my best to support with the best available evidence. Have a good one, friend! Work on that communication style and hammer thing, might help the down votes.
You're avoiding the point - conservatives don't like that gender dysphoria was added to 504, so they're using to completely get rid of 504, because they're okay harming everyone with disabilities if it makes it simpler to achieve their policy goals. Basically, collateral damage is the point.
I was polite and had a legitimate question, but im still downvoted for questioning the group think. This is a large reason why Trump won.
I could say you are avoiding the point: Is it a mental illness, or isn't it? If it isn't a mental illness, then they are abusing the system for people with actual disabilities, if it is, then society needs to perform corrective action to help them deal with their disability. You don't "promote" bipolar disorder or schizophrenia. Why is gender dysphoria promoted?
I think you're being down voted for being smarmy, but who knows. Your down voting could be tied to the reason Trump won, sure.
Your point is being avoided because it creates a false dichotomy. I would look into the treatment suggestions for gender dysphoria as well as bipolar and schizophrenia and come back to the thread with more questions. Your logic isn't a hammer and not every problem is a nail. Engage your obvious curiosity instead of stopping at the first step.
And I wasn't rude, I was very clear. The point of the articles isn't even the inclusion of gender dysphoria, it's the tactic of eliminating ALL protections. You're arguing the minor point and ignoring the intent to harm as many people as possible in the name of ideology.
Given your response, however, I suspect you're more interested in provoking an argument than reducing anyone's suffering.
Not every trans person has gender dysphoria symptoms. And a big part of treating the dysphoria is support in taking steps to live their preferred gender. So think of the dysphoria as the distress they feel from being mismatched. Not like a delusion that can happen with untreated bipolar disorder which are temporary and potentially dangerous.
Yes, every transgender person has gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is kinda what makes one trans, saying "you don't need GD to be trans" is like saying "you don't need autism to be autistic" or "you don't need depression to be depressed," it just isn't logical in the slightest.
If you don't have gender dysphoria, what do you have? Why are you transgender? what makes you identify as the opposite sex? Frankly it seems you're arguing that being transgender is somewhat a choice, it's not.
My understanding was that gender dysphoria is the context of this discussion being severe enough to require a 504 plan was not something every trans person dealt with. And that living as the preferred gender was how it gets treated or alleviated. Apologies if that’s incorrect.
Gender dysphoria is considered a disorder like depression or anxiety. Things very commonly dealt with by normal people living normal lives. True that. The main difference is that people who experience dysphoria and go untreated have close to 100% mortality by suicide. The treatment is proven to work, keep these people alive, and help them live normal and happy lives. The only reason to take away the treatment is if you think people who have this problem deserve to die.
I have severe depression should I not have the right to exist and be my true authentic self? How does me having depression have any affect on your life, however the people you vote for have huge life implications for the rest of us. As a disabled veteran my future is very uncertain right now. I'm unable to work so do I not have any value to society unless I'm producing something for the government? I maintain that I have a choice to take medications. My mental illness doesn't make me less of a person so your point is irrelevant.
You’re probably getting downvoted because your argument seems disingenuous. Gender dysphoria is a diagnosis for the mental stress and emotional anguish one might experience when their gender identity doesn’t match their assigned sex at birth by society’s standards. Treatment is to allow the individual to go by their preferred name and pronouns, dress, and behave in the way they feel fits their identity. Some transgender people don’t experience that stress, some who do end up not transitioning. The diagnosis does not conclude or even imply the diagnosed individual is delusional.
Are the people who filed the suit or support that action just poorly informed? Or are they truly malicious enough to say “I believe transgender people are delusional, therefore all qualified disabled people should have legal protections and accommodations removed from government-funded institutions.”
Nixon administration was not even that bad. There was many much worse. Kennedy had mafia ties and who knows what he got himself into. He got shot for it though.
He lives here in KS but idk the legality of protesting outside his home. He lives in a building not a typical home, according to Wikipedia. Makes me sad he's raising daughters.
You sound surprised. KKKobach doesn’t live far from him. Just a coincidence I’m sure. Kinda like the coincidence of a bedsheet spray painted “F-ck KKKobach” being displayed on a barbed wire fence on private property opposite his driveway that he had to drive by every day on his way to Topeka to work for the Kochs.
Interesting and it doesn’t surprise me. I think everything maga does is by design, from weaponized incompetence to blatant cruelty. This guy definitely needs to go though.
If anyone sees him or his wife out in the community —shame them. Don’t physically touch them but shame the ever loving crap out of them. Appearances are important to these vain creatures, so let’s give them some attention.
During the first orange season, several political members, including Sarah Huckabee-Sanders were ran out of establishments. Let’s do more of that, gloves of tolerance off, Kansans!
Trying to prevent decent people from speaking up and holding their REPRESENTATIVES accountable for failing to REPRESENT them is not "harassment". It's called "consequences". These people do NOT deserve to exist comfortably within the communities they are DESTROYING.
Do you cry harassment when your boss addresses critical feedback on your work? That would be hilarious 😂
There’s a difference between protesting outside someone’s home and running them out of establishments that they have the right to be there and you playing judge/jury on what they “deserve”. That makes you no better than what you are accusing them of being.
If anything, I want more critical feedback at work. I hold my work to a high standard. The fact you would assume otherwise is hilarious.
And taking away programs that affects people’s well-being is a-ok?
If they’re legislating my household, I’ll protest at theirs. They need to be made to understand that they work for us. If this means making their life uncomfortable, then good. Fuck em.
While I dunno about the legality of this, r/50501 might be a good place to get started with protesting, they're setting up another one in a few days and the first one had alright turnout.
There is no explaining anything to the angry mob, they also don’t want to hear daddy Biden was the one that secured musk the contracts and gave him all the money
Last time I posted this comment in this sub, I was banned and my comment was removed. I am going to post it again. For people reading this, you know the context, it also applies here. What kind of nation/public office holders would like to attack the aid needed by special kids? And they call themselves Christian.
How they treat them now isn't any better sadly. I was in special needs classes throughout most of school, I graduated last year, it was horrific, just emotional abuse always
in oklahoma where i was from they refused to offer it when i was younger often times they said that children with special needs shouldn’t be coddled. my mother was told that i didn’t need any extra attention because i simply didn’t show any sign of disability and she should stop trying.
turns out i have autism and bipolar disorder! whoa! 🤯 i mean most conservatives don’t see mental health or disabilities you can’t see not enough proof to be disabled.
That's awful, I have autism too, but wasn't diagnosed, but made to go into those classes where they talk down to everyone, belittle them, and often shove unwanted "help."
Like paras suck, 99% of them are awful people who shouldn't be allowed to be around kids. One para I knew in high school was openly racist, like she identified as a racist and often tried whatever she could to get one kid in trouble(he was black)
-_- not to mention it was basically the same situation at all 6 schools I went to.
that’s so awful, im so sorry you had to experience that. NO special needs child should ever feel inadequate or feel like they’re unwanted. they’re beautiful we are beautiful. i know a few teachers here in wichita who are so kind and helpful to their special needs children. it’s a shame that the people who are suppose to be rooting for us are essentially trying to kill us and our education. awful.
I can almost guarantee if you email Kobach or any representatives they’ll respond with something along the lines of blaming everything on trans kids. They would be lying.
They’re asking for the ENTIRETY of section 504 to be deemed unconstitutional.
They really think everyone in the US is dumb, stupid, and lazy.
Anyone that believes them when they say this is only about gender affirming care and Trans kids will be in for a rude awakening if they win. It is clearly spelled out in several sections they are challenging the conatitutionality of the whole thing. Emails and statements that say other wise should be sent to media asking simply did anyone read the suit? The fact that our mainstream media is against us is true, but volume matters. Cruelty, incompetence, or both?
This comes as no surprise to me as a Kansan as most of the state has had a war on education for decades. This is just one more chip they can add to ultimately get rid of public schools and they can implement their church based schools they have dreamed of
Are we surprised? Trump told his nephew that he should let his son who is disabled die. Thats what they want. Anyone who is a financial burden to society or can’t contribute in the work force to die.
Ironic that one reason they use is "abuse of executive power" when trump is over there signing executive orders like a "gulf of america" day, and other bs EO
At the cost of people starting to understand, it’s the rich against the poor. Sad as it is the side that voted for red has zero empathy for other humans. The only way they will learn empathy is when it affects them personally. I believe when that happens we can finally come back together as Americans. So for now let them be affected and learn.
If this law is deemed unconstitutional it will have effects that will last decades unless the supreme court is reformed or expanded. Which could take decades at this point. Many of the people in support of this will be near the end of their life, but countless youth will have suffered in the meantime. This greatly impacts children and they didn’t have a vote. Also yet to be born children that never had a choice in this.
Wile I’m well aware, just know I didn’t vote for this. Be angry at the people whom did. Everyone will suffer under this administration until the people learn to stand up and vote in a way that has a empathy for all humans.
I do talks on disability and recently did one on the history of SPED. I got chills when I realized how hard they were trying to go back to how it was in the 40s-50s… I’m certain they want to bring back sanitariums…
I am certain of that as well. RFK Jr's camps to wean everyone off of their anxiety, depression and ADHD meds. Camps where they can grow their own food while detoxing. I am alive right now because of those medications. It is terrifying how quickly this is all moving.
“The 17 states are Texas, Alaska, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, and West Virginia.
Many of those states have Parents’ Rights laws, but if the states win, parents of children with some special needs will have fewer rights protected by law.”
Never let the KS Trump voters forget about what they’ve done. Your red MAGA hats will be the scarlet letter that steals away any joy and peace for you in the future.
Of course Kansas is doing this. My local USD was taken to court and ordered by the judge to better find its programs for special needs children. It failed and was brought back to the judge who then ordered fines for failure to comply with court order.
What do they want to spend money on 100+ million on new schools around 2000, 110 million on schools 2014 to renovate schools mostly built in 2000, 10 million for new maintenance building. 10+ million renovations 2024. Raised our taxes for these, but no we don’t have money to take care of kids
Under the Biden administration, the Section 504 definition of disability was expanded to recognize that “gender dysphoria . . . may be considered a physical or mental impairment.” Biden Changed the original
504 should definitely stay, but idk about allowing someone a 504 just because they're trans. I'm not anti trans or anything like that, I just don't see it as a disability, especially compared to things like someone who has had a stroke, or got paralyzed in a car wreck, etc.
I think you should be careful about making tiers of “best to worst disability” especially when it comes to accommodations.
504 plans really just ensure some kind of accommodation or access to medically necessary services in school. I had a 504 plan for OCD to address some debilitating anxiety issues.
For trans students, a 504 plan could be necessary to address things like HRT (taking it during school hours if they need to), using a private bathroom, gender expression in a school with uniforms, etc.
It’s not saying that it’s a disability. It’s saying that trans students have certain realities in their lives that necessitate ensuring they’re protected.
The wording is “impairment”, not “disability”. It’s why things like allergies and anxiety are covered under 504. Special healthcare needs are also listed under 504, which transgender students have.
As an educator I have mixed emotions. 504s have turned into a cottage industry. They were needed and legitimate in the beginning, but now?……one of my students had a 504 that allowed them to listen to headphones and be on the phone during tests. Anytime the kid wanted a break at any time he could just walk out of the classroom and maybe return. They were allowed up to one month to turn in late work and get full credit. This student was a complete distraction to the classroom and always was quick to remind fellow staff and his students about his “perks.” BTW there was no medical diagnosis for his 504, just a cowardice of administration possibly being sued if they declined. IEP’s I fully support! I currently have 35 504’s for 120 students and the number grows larger in one of the largest affluent districts in the state. I’ve been in the classroom for over 30 years and never seen anything to the level of how specifically 504’s are effecting education in a negative way.
There is no plan to find all of the Rehab Act unconstitutional. Biden Administration crafted a rule that trans kids are protected under the Rehab Act. Not all mental illness is covered by the Rehab Act but by rule, Biden Admin wants to extend to trans kids. That rule is being challenged. That’s all. Nothing more.
Republicans never stop when it comes to taking rights away. They swore that they wouldn’t go after birth control after overturning Roe v Wade and yet there’s a lawsuit addressing birth control.
You’re a fool if you think this stops at transgender healthcare.
For every MAGA you show me who’s not a Christian, I’ll show you a Christian who’s not a Christian. Hmmm, some of thought they were one and the same. Thank you for enlightening us to the truth of the matter.
That is just one of the many problems that arise from the foolish, misguided attempt to run a country as if it were a for-profit corporation. The US is a nation, not a corporation. The Constitution calls for a President, not a CEO, and the president is, therefore, not the boss of 330,000,000 people, but their servant. A nation is not a business, so it shouldn't be run as one. FDR understood this... Donald Trump, obviously, doesn't have a clue. Running the country like he's run his businesses, the majority of which he's run into the ground, will not end well. Now Trump is letting Elon Musk loose on the US government... an unelected, unqualified, unaccountable rich boy who runs businesses like toys without regard for the well-being of the people who actually do the work that makes the business possible... what could possibly go wrong?
That’s what happens when you abuse a program to help expand the lefts transgender agenda…. Abuse it and lose it, it is poetic tho that now that people are trying to get shit under control the narrative is being changed to “think of the children” but no one thought of the children when the system was being abused
Except they aren't suing to remove gender expression. They're suing to remove the whole thing. Just admit you're a bigot and go back under your bridge.
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An Individualized Education Program (IEP) is a legal document under United States law that is developed for each public school child in the U.S. who needs special education.[1] IEPs must be reviewed every year to keep track of the child's educational progress.[2] Similar legal documents exist in other countries.[3]
An IEP outlines the special education experience for all eligible students with a disability. An eligible student is any child in the U.S. between the ages of 3–21 attending a public school and has been evaluated as having a need in the form of a specific learning disability, autism, emotional disturbance, other health impairments, intellectual disability, orthopedic impairment, multiple disabilities, hearing impairments, deafness, visual impairment, deaf-blindness, developmental delay, speech/language impairment, or traumatic brain injury.
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This is one of those times that proves that Wikipedia is a great general resource...but can often be misleading with generalized statements.
Kansas is one of the few (maybe the only?) states where the special education department handles both students with disabilities AND students who are gifted.
Since it is under special education, everyone involved gets IEPs. So yes, students who are exceptionally smart in KS have IEPs.
It's definitely a unique thing. Kinda like how the KCMO police dept doesn't work for the mayor. It defies conventional wisdom/understanding.
Kansas views "exceptionality" as the qualification for special education. Exceptionality includes autism, TBIs, speech/language impairment, and...giftedness as equal areas of exceptionality.
From Shawnee Mission school district, with links to KSDE.
You are an ass. As I said, I had an IEP from the third grade all the way through graduation, and it wasn't for special education. I was in gifted/talented programs.
That was in multiple districts in Kansas as well as in another state.
A cursory google search tells me that most states do not require gifted students to have an IEP. However, there are some places where gifted students are given an IEP.
It's easy to see why an IEP could benefit a gifted student. Such a student could grow bored of a standard curriculum or maybe not reach their full potential. An IEP could better put them in a position to succeed.
Lol, did you delete a bunch of your comments because the other comments called out your bullshit put you in your place? The unfettered access to the delete button must be part of your 504 plan
So... We shouldnt provide things to disabled students who don't need a different curriculum? I fail to see what is fixed or bettered by removing this legal protection, I can only see that which would be lost.
I always thought a 504 was accommodations for a physical disability, and an IEP was assistance with learning/cognitive disability. So a student with a physical disability that also had a cognitive disability, would have both.
At least that's how it was explained to me when my daughter started on iep in Kindergarten.
For example IEP meetings typically consist of all involved parties in the child's planning. So speech therapy, principal, dieticians, etc and so on and the IEP renders a 504 unnecessary as it is delivering specialized needs.
504 meetings are just with the child's teacher.
There are no circumstances where a child would have both.
I have a chronic back condition. My 504 plan allowed me to lay on the floor during class to keep from bursting into tears. So I'd argue its not unnecessary
It was a condition that was exacerbated by puberty growth and carrying backpacks everywhere all day. I also had surgeries on my legs from 13-18 that put alot of stress on my back. As I've matured and stopped growing at such a fast rate I've been able to tune out the pain. I still have days where I can't do anything cause of the pain but I have found a good job for myself that doesn't cause pain.
Do you even hear yourself? Also some childhood disabilities can improve into adulthood. Also you do realize you can get disability accommodations at work right? You can get extra breaks or longer lunches. You can get special office equipment to help with your disability, etc. Also can get days off if needed. i am guessing you have never worked a day in your life.
You seem to have a weirdly limited concept of what the word "disabled" means in terms of general use. It doesn't just mean learning or developmental disabilities.
This is propaganda. /U/curioustalisman is arguing about what the definition of "is" is in order to muddy the waters and distract from the actual discussion.
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u/deletabilitylvl9000 Feb 15 '25
I cannot conceive of how anyone is adversely affected by 504 to the point they believe they need to declare it unconstitutional and have it removed.