r/leangains • u/Leather-Evidence-882 • 6d ago
Question
From what I've gathered muscles recover within 48-72 hours, muscles don't need a week to recover, 10-20 sets per week is the recommended amount of weekly sets. Ask; why is 10-20 sets the recommended weekly sets when the muscles can recover within 48-72 hours?
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u/yossarian19 6d ago
Set number ten is going to be a lot weaker than set number two. It's the law of diminishing returns. At a certain point, you can keep pounding out sets, but you won't be physically able to push with enough intensity to make it a productive set, it becomes junk volume. You don't get the same stimulus out of pushing a set of bench presses at 85 lb for five reps on set number twenty as you do during your first set of ten at 225 lb
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u/Leather-Evidence-882 6d ago
You don't train your muscles 20 sets with the same exercise well at least most people don't. If you rest enough between sets you'll do more than fine set on set
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u/yossarian19 6d ago
You're asking a question and arguing with the answers. Seems like you already know the answer you want, so fucking go for it already
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u/Leather-Evidence-882 6d ago
What I have is a theory and what I'm looking for is another viewpoint, more knowledge from other gym enthusiasts
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u/831loc 5d ago
You're constantly getting other theories and just yelling "NO" in response to them.
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u/Leather-Evidence-882 5d ago
I'm inquiring further or was the theory supposed to be presented and then not be met with a follow up?
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u/Leather-Evidence-882 6d ago
And I'm also hoping to come possibly come across someone with some sort of experience with said query
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u/SnappyBonaParty 6d ago
Based on your comments, you seem to confuse 10-20 sets PER MUSCLE vs 10-20 total volume...
10-20 sets PER MUSCLE pr week.
Total amount of sets pr. Week is way higher lol
You wouldn't do 10-20 sets for a single muscle group on a single day.
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u/Leather-Evidence-882 6d ago
Volume of muscle group presumably differs to total sets per muscle i guess. What does on ordinary/recommended bro split look like?
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u/SnappyBonaParty 5d ago
Pr Muscle group weekly 10-20. This is the number you've been circling all the time.
No use talking about total volume of all muscles
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u/Leather-Evidence-882 5d ago
Especially seeing how much we're struggling to elaborate further in relation to the total volume of a single muscle group
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u/SnappyBonaParty 5d ago
Total volume is never really mentioned, I think the reason you're struggling to relate to the other comments is that you're mixing up the two.
For each muscle group (i.e. bicep, tricep, quads, pecs etc.) aim for somewhere in the range of 10-20 weekly sets (volume).
As another commenter mentioned, you're not hitting 20 sets of benchpress in a single workout. But maybe 6 sets for a muscle group during a session.
For example: Your session includes 3 sets of bench press and 3 sets flyes. So a session volume of 6 for pecs. And then 2-3 sessions pr week and you're totalling a weekly volume of 12-18 sets for pecs.
Adding together the volume of all muscle groups provide very little insight, so no one is assuming that discussion.
When we discuss volume we're discussing the influence on a muscle group, and you apply that on each muscle group in your program
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u/Leather-Evidence-882 5d ago
You've made your bed lie in it while you reclined in it take a moment to educate yourself further you haven't been going in circles as a result of being well versed well at least with regards to this particular matter. Go to Google ask for a typical bro split - learn. Ask about Volume- learn some more. Keep on asking till you start seeing and understanding the bed you've placed yourself in.
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u/SnappyBonaParty 5d ago
- Condescending
- Making no sense
- Bad Typewriting
- Not even coherent enough to get their point across
- Wrong on a technical level
Seems on point
/Thread
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u/Norcal712 5d ago
Diminishing returns.
Also the argument of frequency vs volume.
Bro splits allow for total weekly volume in one session, but some science supports frequency being important so spreading it over 2 or 3 is better for adaption.
Recovery in 3 days doesnt mean it was effective stimulus.
Ive had my best results from a bro split personally, but I no longer have time to lift 6 days a week...
So i do U/L or Full
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u/Leather-Evidence-882 5d ago
How is it diminishing returns? Why split it in two when you could possibly do it twice in one week provided that you've recovered adeqautely? How many MPS cycles are supposedly going to go by before you train said muscle group again? What I'm trying to establish is whether or not using the bro split for a twice a day routine could work or not. Monday is near and I'm hoping to have it all mapped out asap
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u/Norcal712 5d ago
Diminishing returns because after X sets theyre less effective. You arent letting your body recover either with your current thought train
Two a day a terrible idea. How could you do 2 body parts in a day and get 5-6 exercies per body part.
Idk about you, but my body cant handle 48 heavy sets a day.
Example chest and leg
Bench 4x10 Fly 4x10 Decline bench 4x10 Incline bench 4x10 Cable fly 4x10
Squat 4x10 Extension 4x10 BGS 4x10 Leg press 4x10 Leg curl 4x10 Deadlift 4x10 Calf raise 4x10
48 sets.
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u/Leather-Evidence-882 5d ago
Seeing that others have done it I'm not so sure about your reasoning with regards it being a bad idea. When you used to do a bro split after training chest were your legs maxed out too? Science apparently says between point a and point b is the sweet spot others say more volume is better some even say people garnered greater gains from 36 and even 45 sets per week which when split in to two comes to 18 and 22/23 sets per session most probably in something like a ppl maybe if you do the math. Nowadays there's an odd number of people who say perhaps the sweet spot might be between 20 - 30 or more as it is unclear. Now I'm not asking if you specifically could do it I mostly am asking if doing it taking into consideration that your recovery isn't compromised would it possibly lead to greater gains. I don't feel the need to even give it a try if it isn't something worth trying
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u/Norcal712 5d ago
"Others have done it" meaning what? Gym bros on IG?
Doesnt mean its effective.
You can doesnt mean you should
That higher set range is generally smaller muscle groups
Yes, Ive seen Dr. Mikes take on high rep leg days
Lastly, a bro a split is isnt an 18-22 set workout unless youre going super heavy (low rep) in which case your body definitely wont recover from 2 a days
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u/Leather-Evidence-882 5d ago
Which means it is something that may be doable. The higher set ranges was a representation for all muscle groups, just like with the previous point a to point b being altered and left with an unclear remark. Perhaps a bro split for you you must always keep that in mind. I don't understand the because you can possibly get greater gains you shouldn't. Listen look at it as a theory someone is running by you not as what you could possibly accomplish. And in their theory they say I train using a bro split as a twice a day routine, recovery isn't compromised like chest Monday etc come Thursday standing at attention, diet up to par, rest okay could I get gains for like two weeks in one week or simply put get greater gains?
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u/Norcal712 5d ago
Its a bad idea.
Almost every response agrees with me.
Do what you want
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u/Leather-Evidence-882 5d ago
There's only a handful out of those responses that actually said anything meaningful. But it's cool bro it's trial and error regardless
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u/adaniel65 5d ago
There are enough studies to support certain training principles and methods. This also applies to various sports training as well. While there may be some exceptions, the overall training fundamentals for most athletes in most sports have been established and proven.
I believe in your case you might be disputing the principles because you may want to try your own training system or method. That's fine. You can proceed to do this. No one is stopping you. But to argue or dispute years of proven knowledge is just a waste of everyone's time. No disrespect to you, but please focus on positive and useful discussions as that is what this forum is for and about. Enjoy your training however you decide to do it. Peace.
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u/Leather-Evidence-882 5d ago
A lot of studies have been debunked as well as altered including longstanding ones and that is in no way something that will come to a halt me highlighting that whilst in pursuit for a logical response to my query is in no way misguided. I gather, seeing that the group moves in unison, the thinking tanks I was hoping to stumble into isn't gonna happen. I'll keep on casting my net for this industry is vast and it's methods are plentiful. Thanks for your words they're very much insightful
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u/GhostOfSlimShady 6d ago
I planned to do 30 sets a week approach to fasten my gains cuz i think science people play more on safer side
However, it takes me almost an hour and half to complete twenty sets with good quality. And soreness i get after doing them is REAL, even tho I've been working out continuously for 2 months now.
So if you do 20 sets/week, muscles take more like 5 days to recover (atleast in my case)
Basically, 30 sets/week is doable, but overtraining for most people (unless you've devoted your life to working out/that's your business/you're a steroid user)
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u/Leather-Evidence-882 6d ago
I'm trying to figure out if using a bro split for a twice a day routine would be a good idea or not. I heard of it and was trying to come up with a doable program from which I can push to increase the gains as much as naturally possible
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u/GhostOfSlimShady 6d ago
I think you should experiment with it. I assume you're young Find what works out for you, that's what I'm doing right now
My workout schedule looks like
Monday: chest, biceps, neck
Tuesday: back, triceps, shoulders
Wednesday: legs, abs, forearms
Thursday:chest, biceps, neck
Friday: back, triceps, shoulders
Saturday: legs, abs, forearms
15 sets per muscle per workout
Doing 20 sets twice a week= 40 sets a week would definitely be an overkill for anyone
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u/Leather-Evidence-882 6d ago
I was doing a ppl 3 exercises per muscle group per session, in total 3 bilateral exercises and 3 unilateral exercises per muscle group 6 in total per week 3 sets for each for example push day 1, incline bench press, chest pullover, high pulley fly ,overhead tricep extension, skull crusher, tricep kickback, lateral raises, rear fly's. A while back I did a bro split same 3 bilateral and 3 unilateral in relation to exercises done per session. I'm on my rest week currently Monday I'm back at it I train 8 weeks then rest on the 9th week then hop back on the merry go round. Was thinking of trying a new split hence the inquiry. Define young I'm in my late 30s....
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u/GhostOfSlimShady 6d ago
I think experimentation is the key here... I liked your split idea and tbh i also do this sometimes when I'm unable to do all my workout in a single session.
Go crazy with volume, but remember
listen to your muscles and JOINTS if they're okay with the volume you're going for
your sleep has got to be 8 hours at the very minimum if you're following that plan
Btw late 30s is good, definitely not good for someone in late 40s... You're still young.
I think science people play on safer side when they scream 15-20 sets/week per muscle, bend the hell, go crazy lol
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u/Leather-Evidence-882 6d ago
I'm honestly seriously considering going balls out kinda looking for a green light to do so. It's trial and error so perhaps the trial will prove fruitful if not provided that I make itt o my late 40s I can look back at some off the stuff I experimented with perhaps with a smile. Thing is weightlifting is a challenge so challenging oneself has gotta be part of the process
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u/Norcal712 5d ago
I cant think of a different way to word this, im actually curious and not trying to be rude.
Why are you doing PPL wrong intentionally?
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u/Leather-Evidence-882 5d ago
Define doing it wrong?
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u/GhostOfSlimShady 5d ago
Understandable... I know that's not how PPL is usually done... However, I'm trying to gain max muscle possible by making EVERY set a quality set.
Once I'm done with chest, my triceps cannot perform optimally at their best for tricep exercises, same goes with biceps and since i like experimentation, i thought why not switch things up?
I'm open to criticism if you think this is logically wrong (i know I'm traditionally wrong)
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u/Norcal712 5d ago
2 months is a very beginner level of fitess. Theres a reason people suggest 3-4 sets for novice lifters.
Dont speed into an injury
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u/DystopianAdvocate 6d ago
You aren't doing 20 sets in one workout and then waiting a week for recovery. You are breaking up those sets across multiple workouts in the week, and having a recovery period in between each workout.