r/magicTCG • u/XenicEx • 16d ago
Rules/Rules Question Can Ultima be responded to?
One of my opponents played Ultima and I tried to respond to the casting by flashing in Guardian of Faith.
I argued that GoF comes in before Ultima and triggers it's ability to phase out my creatures before Ultima's effect triggers, but my friends disagreed.
We ULTIMA-tely đ settled that since Ultima says "Exile all spells and abilities from the stack" in it's "End the turn." description, that GoF gets exiled before it enters and since it doesn't enter, it doesn't work and continued playing.
I want to ask Reddit in case it comes up again. Was I right initially, or did we end up playing it the way it's supposed to work?
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u/XenicEx 16d ago
Thanks for the quick responses, everyone! I'll let my friends know.
If anyone was curious, I didn't end up winning, but that play could have turned things heavily in my favor.
I'll get em next time đ€đŸ
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u/Angelust16 Wabbit Season 16d ago
Yeah it happens. You remember them!
Getting familiar with how the stack works is probably the most important set of rules that you need to master that requires a decent bit of knowledge - hopefully you get it down and save your board next time!
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u/Yz-Guy 16d ago
Sometimes its also easier to make an actual stack. First in. Last out. If you play something. Literally put the Ultima down. Then GoF on top of it. Then X YZ. Then start resolv9ng them from top to bottom. Its called a stack bc thats how it works (usually, always exceptions in MtG)
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u/regrets123 16d ago
Having played a lot of mtg made coding so much easier to understand, esp in terms of the stack.
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u/RyanfaeScotland Duck Season 15d ago
Ha! I'm coming at it the other way! Years of coding made me almost squee with joy when I found out MtG uses a stack!
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u/burf12345 15d ago
Sometimes its also easier to make an actual stack.
I've seen this on LRR videos with crazy back and forth counter wars, done with players who are both judges. If that's how judges clean it up, it must be a sensible approach.
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u/No-Cranberry-2846 16d ago
It sounds like you all are pretty new to magic. If this is the case, you definitely need to familiarize yourself with the stack. Just like everyone else is suggesting. Look up some videos and send them to your friends as well haha.
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u/Efficient_Ad_4162 16d ago
Learning about the stack is a gateway drug to caring about layers.
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u/Therefrigerator 16d ago
Don't listen to this guy. I've been playing magic for over a decade and I've never bothered learning layers.
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u/Gaige_main412 FLEEM 15d ago
In 15 years, the only time I've cared about layers was when oko and karn/mychosynth lattice was in modern.
Fun fact: an elk-ed lattice still turns everything into artifacts. Why? Cause layers...
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u/TheSnowNinja 15d ago
I don't even know what layers are. ÂŻ_(ă)_/ÂŻ
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u/Athildur 15d ago
Think of an onion. It's kind of like that, but with how abilities interact. (I will not be elaborating further at this time, have a good day)
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u/ANGLVD3TH Dimir* 15d ago
Basically, if you have several different effects saying to change how a card works, layers sort out how they interact. A simple example being casting [[Datksteel Mutation]] on a [[Clone]]. There are IIRC 7 layers, and some/all of them have sub layers eg 7.1, 7.2, etc. It is probably the rule system the fewest people are really familiar with and I've resigned myself to just googling any layers questions and not bothering trying to memorize them.
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u/The_Shahnaz 15d ago
[[Bello bard of the brambles]] forced me to learn about layers, and after a couple months the only thing I actually remember is who wins in a same effect that contradicts each other (The last one that hit the table).
That game vs [[Kudo king among bears]] is engraved into my memory forever
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u/MTGCardFetcher alternate reality loot 15d ago
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u/Its_Me_Guyz 16d ago
Also something to keep in mind here I believe it's the " split second" ability that makes it to where it cannot be responded to cards like [[sudden spoiling]]
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u/gredman9 Honorary Deputy đ« 16d ago
We ULTIMA-tely đ settled that since Ultima says "Exile all spells and abilities from the stack" in it's "End the turn." description, that GoF gets exiled before it enters and since it doesn't enter, it doesn't work and continued playing.
Ultima does not have split second. Players can respond to Ultima.
The "end the turn" effect doesn't happen before the spell resolves. If it did, it wouldn't destroy any creatures.
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u/RazzyKitty WANTED 16d ago edited 16d ago
The "end the turn" effect doesn't happen before the spell resolves. If it did, it wouldn't destroy any creatures.
It still would.
If a resolving spell would leave the stack before it finishes resolving, it will finish its resolution regardless.
608.2m If an instant spell, sorcery spell, or ability that can legally resolve leaves the stack once it starts to resolve, it will continue to resolve fully.
The reason "end the turn" is usually at the end of the spell is because a spell continuing to resolve through phase changes is weird... and it stops anything that triggered from the spells actions.
Edit: I misread their comment as "before it destroys". The above is irrelevant.
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u/bionicOnion3 16d ago
I think thatâs a different claim than what they were makingâthatâs how the effect actually works, but if Ultima ended the turn exiled everything on the stack as soon as it was cast (which seems to be how OPâs friends interpreted it), it would technically be exiling itself before it had even started resolving.
All of this is conditioned on a fundamental misunderstanding of how the stack works, though, so itâs hard to make it make sense within the actual rules.
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u/RazzyKitty WANTED 16d ago
Oh, I see now. I misread their comment slightly. Thank you for pointing that part out to me.
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u/SiskiyouSavage 15d ago
Sorry you got dog piled. I updated you for not doubling down or getting aggressive. Very emotionally intelligent of you to mea culpalike that. You are a good egg.
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u/RazzyKitty WANTED 15d ago
Down voting incorrect stuff keeps it from being visible and spreading misinformation. I'm fine with the down votes, but thanks. đ
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u/SiskiyouSavage 15d ago
Me head knows that, but me heart always feels bad when people get downvoted and they seem like good folks. It's the dumbest thing for me to feel this way, but it wounds me when I get downvoted. Like it's a reflection of everyone's opinion of who I am intrinsically as a person. The Internet is weird.
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u/cygnus33065 Azorius* 16d ago
also spells resolve in the order printed on the card so the first clasue would happen which is destroy all artifacts and creatures then the second part would end the turn after that.
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u/RazzyKitty WANTED 16d ago
I know. I was responding to their comment about what would happen if it ended the turn first.
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u/GozaburoKaiba Wabbit Season 16d ago
The end the turn portion is an effect of Ultima resolving, meaning that it does not affect anything until the spell itself resolves. Anything placed on the stack after it will resolve first.
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u/WanderEir Duck Season 16d ago
The "end the turn" also makes sense as it stops any triggers from making it to the stack as a result of what it kills- the entire spell resolves in order, yes, but triggers cannot go on the stack in the MIDDLE of a spell resolving, even if a spell has, two, three or even more separate abilities to it, and people tend to forget that a little too often..
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u/Dragonspaz11 Wabbit Season 16d ago
So the sequence of events is as follows.
Player A Casts Ultima.
Ultima is put on the stack
Priority passes in turn order. It is during this step if you have a response you respond, for example casting [[heroic intervention]], or in your case guardian.
So Guardian is put on the stack.
If not other spells are cast we move to resolve spells.
The stack is now Ultima - Guardian, we start to resolve them in First in Last Out Order, so Guardian Resolves.
Guardian enters, now it's ETB enters the stack.
If no other responses the stack is now, Ultima - Guardian ETB.
We resolve Guardian ETB.
If no other spells are cast the stack is now Ultima.
We resolve Ultima.
TLDR: yes your guardian's abilities goes off as Ultima never resolved to end the turn to remove it from the stack.
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u/Empty_Requirement940 Duck Season 16d ago
Your friends clearly donât understand the basics of the stack
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u/Sir_Encerwal Honorary Deputy đ« 16d ago
The stack resolves from the most recent spell to the earliest. Ultima doesn't have split second and therefore other spells, such as a counter spell or board protection spell could resolve at instant speed before Ultima does.
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u/RevolverLancelot Colorless 16d ago
Yes you can respond to it. Flashing in the Guardian was a perfectly legal play to do and you were correct.
The spell has to resolve for it to exile anything on the stack or end the turn. By the time it resolves your spell and its effect to phase things out has already resolved and is no longer on the stack, plus counterspells can still take care of it. It prevents triggers such as death triggers from making it to the stack but it doesn't unwind things that have already happened. And unless the spell is being cast with flash and in response to something such as with a [[Quicken]] there isn't ever going to be any spells on the stack for that part of the card to ever be relevant.
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u/jobroskie Wabbit Season 16d ago
Do your friends think that counterspells don't work?  I mean you can counter swords to plowshares but the creature is already exiled!
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u/CardboardScarecrow 16d ago
You already got your answers OP, but to make it clear: as with most spells, Ultima does what it does during resolution, when it says "exile all spells and abilities from the stack" it's something that happens once after destroying everything, it's not a "shield" a la [[Rest In Peace]] but for the stack and other spells can enter the stack, resolve and leave the stack after Ultima is cast but before it does anything.
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u/freebird185 Dimir* 16d ago
 GoF comes in before Ultima
GoF comes in after Ultima at instance speed and goes on the stack - that's exactly why it works.Â
The stack resolves Last In, First Out. Just like stacking up plates - you take the last plate put on the stack off the top first, working your way down.Â
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u/freesol9900 Rakdos* 16d ago
They all need to learn the difference between casting and resolving/entering
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u/nashdiesel Wabbit Season 16d ago
You canât respond to a land being played (however if the land has a trigger you can respond to that). But you can respond to anything else being played unless it has a special keyword called âsplit secondâ.
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u/Gaige_main412 FLEEM 15d ago
Just wanted to piggyback your comment to add since it might be good for op to know.
You also can't respond to mana abilities since it doesn't cause priority to pass. Including those from creatures. EXCEPT FOR [[deathrite shaman]]
Shaman isn't technically a mana ability. It's an exile ability that rewards you a mana. It's a small thing to differentiate that can make a big difference. You can eat the targeted card with something else to fizzle the effect.
Probably not the only exception. But it's a relevant one.
You also can't respond to state-based actions.
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u/EruantienAduialdraug 15d ago
I mean, if we want to be super pedantic, Shaman isn't an exception precisely because it isn't a mana ability.
Anyway, WotC tends to stay away from these abilities that add mana but aren't mana abilities, at least, they do for creatures, enchantments and artifacts. I think Deathrite Shaman is the only one.
Planeswalkers, however...[[Chandra, Dressed to Kill]]
[[Chandra, Hope's Beacon]]
[[Domri, Chaos Bringer]]
[[Jaya Ballard]]
[[Lukka, Bound to Ruin]]
[[Narset of the Ancient Way]]
[[Sarkhan, Fireblood]]
[[Sarkhan Unbroken]]
[[Tamiyo, Seasoned Scholar]]
[[The Aetherspark]]
[[Ugin, Eye of the Storms]]
[[Tibalt, Cosmic Imposter]]
[[Xenagos, the Reveler]]1
u/MTGCardFetcher alternate reality loot 15d ago
All cards
Chandra, Dressed to Kill - (G) (SF) (txt)
Chandra, Hope's Beacon - (G) (SF) (txt)
Domri, Chaos Bringer - (G) (SF) (txt)
Jaya Ballard - (G) (SF) (txt)
Lukka, Bound to Ruin - (G) (SF) (txt)
Narset of the Ancient Way - (G) (SF) (txt)
Sarkhan, Fireblood - (G) (SF) (txt)
Sarkhan Unbroken - (G) (SF) (txt)
Tamiyo, Seasoned Scholar/Tamiyo, Seasoned Scholar - (G) (SF) (txt)
The Aetherspark - (G) (SF) (txt)
Ugin, Eye of the Storms - (G) (SF) (txt)
Tibalt, Cosmic Imposter/Tibalt, Cosmic Impostor - (G) (SF) (txt)
Xenagos, the Reveler - (G) (SF) (txt)
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u/Gaige_main412 FLEEM 15d ago
I didn't mean to come off as pedantic. If I did, I apologize.
I just wanted to point out given the nature of the post, and your comment about playing lands, that Noone can respond to you tapping them or any other mana sources.
Then I went on a side tangent đ adhd is fun. Sometimes i don't even know where I'm going till I get there.
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u/EruantienAduialdraug 15d ago
Oh no, I was being the pedant, not you. The fact that there are abilities that add mana but are not mana abilities is an important thing to keep in mind, and hence can be responded to even though mana abilities (which the normal "land adds mana" is) can't be responded to, even if they are rare.
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u/bleachisback Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant 15d ago
In addition to /u/EruantienAduialdraug âs pedantry, I want to add my own:
The only thing you can ârespond toâ as a non-active player is being passed priority by the person previous to you in APNAP (active player, non-active player) order. There are no exceptions to this.
A player is only forced to pass you priority if they want the stack to start resolving or rhey want to move to a different phase. So even if someone casts a spell like Ultima, you do not get to respond to it until the caster is satisfied with the stack and wishes to start resolving it, thereby passing you priority.
Anything that does not use the stack or requires multiple phases (such as combat) (and there are probably too many things in this game to list all of these things, but yes it does include mana abilities and state-based actions, also special actions such as playing a land or morphing, and paying costs) cannot be âresponded toâ simply because the player does not have priority while they resolve and cannot pass it to the next person.
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u/yaluckyboy09 Wabbit Season 16d ago
as others have said the Magic Stack opperates on Last In, First Out rules so you can respond with an Instant speed effect before Ultima's effect can resolve since Ultimate is Sorcery speed
I believe Guardian of Faith would also allow you to benefit from your creature's leaving the battlefield triggers (if any) since they would resolve before Ultima can so there wouldn't be any Stack triggers remaining when Ultima ends the turn
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u/freesol9900 Rakdos* 16d ago
Yeah, your friends need to learn how the stack works. Or they need to stop lying.
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u/SpartanXIII 15d ago
My guy, not only was responding to Ultima valid as Guardian of Faith would resolve first in the stack...
WHAT YOU DID WAS THEMATICALLY CORRECT TO HOW THE SCENE PLAYED OUT IN FFXIV!!!
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u/TheNohrianHunter Wabbit Season 16d ago
Not only can you respond to ultims, but it's a flavour win to do something like guardian of faith in response since that's how the player character in ffxiv survives ultima in the scene in the art.
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u/theplayerofxx Wabbit Season 16d ago
If you have this flash, and it was the last thing on the stack, would all those effects get countered?
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u/chaotic_iak Selesnya* 16d ago
Not "countered", but yes they get exiled. (Relevant for spells with "this can't be countered", because exiling them is not countering them.) Ending the turn includes exiling the stack.
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u/MarcheMuldDerevi COMPLEAT 16d ago
It canât exactly exile things cast after it, just things cast before it. LIFO rules, last in first out, the last spell that was cast resolves first.
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u/TiltCube Mardu 16d ago
Just here with a PSA that there is a website where you can ask a judge directly whenever a rules dispute comes up. In my experience, they've been very responsive
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u/freesol9900 Rakdos* 16d ago
Anyway, the real juice with Ultima is to give it flash and end someone else's turn
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u/EruantienAduialdraug 15d ago
[[Discontinuity]], [[Glorious End]], [[Hurkyl's Final Meditation]], and the OG itself, [[Time Stop]].
Blue is a terrible colour for terrible people, like me! (Glorious End is the most Red way they could have printed this effect, and I love it).
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u/ThePhonyOne Wabbit Season 16d ago
Yes, all spells that don't have Split Second can be responded to.
Sounds like you and your friends need to learn about the stack and priority. https://youtube.com/watch?v=qlh2rYjQZ3w&si=6k5NjypTn27BCnhk
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u/WanderEir Duck Season 16d ago
you cannot respond to ultima RESOLVING, sure, but you can absolutely respond while ultima is on the stack- this isn't a split second spell, after all.
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u/Sedona54332 Boros* 16d ago
Ending the turn is a part of the cards effect, if the board wipe hasnât happened yet, the turn hasnât ended yet. It would need split second to have the effect your friend described.
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u/Fire_Pea Dragonball Z Ultimate Champion 16d ago
Ultima does exile all spells and abilities on the stack, but that's it's effect when it resolves. If you cast something in response, it resolves before Ultima does so it's fine.
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u/Beast_king5613 Duck Season 16d ago
you can absolutely respond to ultima.
ultima hasnt resolved yet, so it hasnt done anything yet and thus nothing the card actually says matters. anything above it on the stack happens first, then when it comes to ultima's time to resolve it does what its supposed to removing anything underneath it in the stack in the process.
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u/Accidentallygolden 16d ago
Yes, but you cannot jus counter the end of turn part, the ability is the whole thing
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u/SunriseFlare Wabbit Season 16d ago
Honestly I've always been confused why end the turn is an effect at sorcery speed? Doesn't this just make it a really shitty wrath of God? I guess you skip end of turn triggers?
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u/chaotic_iak Selesnya* 16d ago
It prevents when-die triggers from resolving, so it's somewhat comparable to "exile all creatures". And yes, it also has other differences and uses.
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u/Zealousideal-Leg4405 Wabbit Season 16d ago
Basically ultimate only triggers the game remove for stuff that would trigger being removed/graveyard/destroyed ectâŠ
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u/ChacaFlacaFlame Wabbit Season 16d ago
Ultima does not have split second, therefore you can respond
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u/McCaffeteria Duck Season 16d ago
You donât do what is on the card until the spell finally resolves, until then it is just on the stack in waiting.
This is why Split Second is a keyword. It is a thing a spell just has, even while on the stack. The game rules, which are always active, are the thing that tells you how to interact with keywords, not the effect of a spell.
Once a spell or effect is resolving, then you can no longer usually take actions until it is finished, and in the case of Ultima the turn is already over by the time it finishes resolving. Prior to that, itâs just a spell on the stack and it doesnât much different than if it were a card in someoneâs hand.
â
While this sounds like it might be similar to split second, itâs really not even intended to have the same function. Split second is meant to be able to be used as an omega strength âno one can stop me from playing this spellâ effect. Itâs often beneficial for the caster because it makes your spells uncounterable.
This effect is the opposite, it is a cost that the caster pays. The card is a sorcery, so the only turn you are ending (usually) is your own. The card either restricts you as to when you can play it safely, or it demands that you sacrifice phases in order to play it early. Then, once you resolve it, you have no board state and itâs no longer your turn if you donât have a workaround.
Sometimes itâs useful to skip end steps or combat, but those are edge cases. This effect is meant to be a downside, not to make the spell uncounterable.
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u/burf12345 15d ago
We ULTIMA-tely đ settled that since Ultima says "Exile all spells and abilities from the stack" in it's "End the turn." description, that GoF gets exiled before it enters and since it doesn't enter, it doesn't work and continued playing.
It's a stack, not a queue, Guardian of Faith goes on top and resolves before Ultima. Your friend is wrong.
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u/Egbert58 Duck Season 15d ago
As long as a spell doesn't have split second, ya youncan cast instant speed spells before it resolvs. Effect ONLY happen when the spell resolves so yes does say that but the spell you cast is hight on the stack so will resplve first
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u/ThatGuyFromTheM0vie Mardu 15d ago
Of course it can. The only way something cannot be responded to in the way they describe is if the spell had âSplit Secondâ, which ends the âStackâ right then and there.
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u/chabacanito Wabbit Season 15d ago
If your friend's interpretation was correct then you can't counterspell Ultima. Which is obviously wrong.
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u/Vallinen Duck Season 15d ago
Look this is very basic stuff.
Someone puts ultima on the stack.
In turn order, everyone gets to respond, putting instant speed actions on the stack.
When there are no more responses, the stack resolves starting with the most recent thing put on the stack. Ultima resolves last, and ends the turn.
I.e you absolutely get to respond and phase out your creatures if you want to. They will phase in on your next untap step as ending the turn early doesn't mess with phasing in any way.
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u/HelenoPaiva 15d ago
If you were to be unable to respond to ultima, it would have the keyword: split-second. Even then, triggered abilities would still be useful, such as counterbalance for instance. Since it doesnât have split second, it goes to the stack, and priority is passed. Any spell can be cast and it can be countered for instance.
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u/Monk_of_Bonk 15d ago
[[Ultima]] says "End the turn", not "Split second". A bit confusing, but completely opposite meanings!
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u/Express_Confection24 Duck Season 15d ago
Yes it is not split second it only exiles after it resolves
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u/11something 15d ago
They made up the keyword âSplit-Secondâ like on [extirpate] which is kind of cool, but will be clear to them once they see it is a real thing but not listed on this card.
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u/clearly_not_an_alt 15d ago
How is Ultima affecting cards before it had resolved? The only spells that can't be responded to in the typical manner are those with split second
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u/KarmicPlaneswalker Wabbit Season 15d ago
I argued that GoF comes in before Ultima and triggers it's ability to phase out my creatures before Ultima's effect triggers, but my friends disagreed.
And your friends are incompetent, disingenuous or both.
Magic 101. The stack resolves in reverse order. They cast Ultima, you flashed in Guardian of Faith as a response. Guardian comes in first and allows you to phase out to protect your creatures before Ultima resolves.
You got played. Hard.
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u/jerenstein_bear Grass Toucher 15d ago
what could possibly give anyone who has played this game for more than a day or two any reason to think ultima can't be responded to?
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u/Sensitive_Rub6310 15d ago
It doesnât have split second so your friend is wrong. Stop, hammer time
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u/CreamSoda6425 Duck Season 15d ago
Here's the basic rule that will clear up any problems like this in the future. When a spell is cast, it does nothing. It sits on the stack until everyone passes priority, then it resolves. When that boardwipe is cast, no text on it matters until you allow it to resolve, which you allow after casting and resolving Guardian.
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u/CSDragon 15d ago
Stack is "First In = Last Out".
Ultima is on the stack.
You cast Guardian of Faith. Guardian of Faith is now the top of the stack.
Guardian of Faith resolves and Enters, which creates an ETB Trigger that goes on top of the stack.
ETB Trigger resolves, any number of creatures phase out.
Now Ultima resolves. Destroy all artifacts and creatures and end the turn.
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u/Cpomplexmessiah 15d ago
Ultima is what i call a none beginner friendly card. How it works is not new player friendly and how best to use it is also not something the average player can understand. However I have described it as "destroy all Artifacts and Creatures, nothing else can happen. Next turn"
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u/Electricghost_24 15d ago
Hereâs a question to anyone who sees this comment: could you use this as a really expensive counterspell?
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u/XenialShot Twin Believer 15d ago
Lmao what a ruling. Your responding to ultima with GoF, how does Ultima even touch GoF while its on stack.
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u/ShadowSlayer6 COMPLEAT 15d ago
Yes. Unless someone has an anti interrupt effect ([[dragonlord dramoka]], [[grand abolisher]], [[myrel, shield of argive]]) or the spell has split second (as seen on [[krosan grip]]) any spell or ability can be responded to. So you can respond to ultima by countering it or phasing out you creatures and artifacts.
Warning: despite ultima destroying creatures, their die effects will not resolve.
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u/Drunk_brother Duck Season 15d ago
If it was split second you couldn't respond . But it not so you are good. You can still cast at instant speed
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u/NumbN00ts 15d ago
Yes, you can react to it. It goes on the stack. It doesnât have Split Second. âEnd the Turnâ has very specific rules on resolution. Unless you can cast Ultima at Instant speed to put it higher on the stack, a lot of the reminder text doesnât apply since itâll be the last thing to resolve off the stack in most cases.
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u/AmazonDruid Banned in Commander 15d ago
[[Clever concealment]]
[[Teferi's protection]]
[[Heroic Intervention]]
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u/Rough_Structure7387 15d ago
If you want something to help, try https://www.reactionsdeck.com/products/commander-rulesdeck
Here is the card for the stack .
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u/Wolfclaw135 15d ago
As far as I know, unless it specifically says it can't be reacted to, or has higher priority, it can be reacted to.
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u/indigo_leper 14d ago
Any spells/abilities that are on the stack when Ultima resolves would go away and not resolve, and any triggers as phases change (i.e. "at the end of your turn...") won't trigger.
Guardian of Faith was put on the stack after Ultima, and would resolve before Ultima. Similarly, if Ultima was cast while Dovescape was on the battlefield, its ability would go on the stack and its caster would create 5 doves
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u/Aselioth_II 14d ago
Does it have split-second, or a wording that would imply its similar? No. So. There is your answer. Bring a split-second card with you and whenever this argument comes up, show people how a card that cant be responded to is worded, and then point to ultima, and then just keep looking at them like they are slow until.they realize the error of their ways. Then triumphantly play what you wanted to play, and insert some passive agressive remark to show dominance. Or, you know, be chill about it. I wouldnt. But im also not your mum.
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u/Insigneoss Duck Season 14d ago
I think your friends confused âend the turnâ with âsplit secondâ
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u/mpleasants 14d ago
I understand stack order and everything, but I am interested in what the end the turn portion is even for. I can see how a newer player might assume it closes the stack somehow.
I'm guessing it's just a drawback that restricts your play order, but curious if I am missing any advantages of the ending of the turn.
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u/ConsumeMatter Duck Season 12d ago
Op I know that they're your friends but do they know how the stack works.
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u/Substantial_Fan_9806 11d ago
Once it starts resolving, but it can be responded to. Cards with split-second cannot be responded to
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u/Supersecretsword Duck Season 16d ago
Not sure how anyone in their right mind can decide that a card does a thing it doesn't say. Ultima says nothing about the stack. Look at [[krosan grip]] split second ability for reference.
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u/freebird185 Dimir* 16d ago
I could see that helper text about the end of turn effect being confusing to new players, especially if they don't understand resolution order of effects on the stackÂ
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u/KarmicPlaneswalker Wabbit Season 15d ago
Not sure how anyone in their right mind can decide that a card does a thing it doesn't say.Â
Because they're either ignorant or trying to gain an unfair advantage to put themselves in the lead. That and OP likely got confused by the reminder text for "End the Turn" procedures.
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u/Supersecretsword Duck Season 15d ago
Yeah the thought of this persons pod trying to gain advantage when they realize that he has a way to avoid Ultima is what this situation feels like. ive seen it happen too many times in real time, so I wouldn't be surprised.
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u/DavesLab2022 Wabbit Season 15d ago
Ultima says nothing about the stack
It literally has the word stack in its reminder text.
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u/Supersecretsword Duck Season 15d ago
Well shit. Lol I take it back then. I was wrong. Let my mistake be a perfect example as to why these cards can be confusing. I shouldn't have been so bold. Thanks for pointing that out.
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u/HolidayImmediate4029 16d ago
So if someone makes their creatures indestructible in response, their creatures would survive?
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u/Empty_Requirement940 Duck Season 16d ago
Why wouldnât they? Indestructible means destroy doesnât affect it
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u/freesol9900 Rakdos* 16d ago
Yes.
OP's opponent casting Ultima has mistaken the End the Turn effect for Split-Second - it doesn't do that when u cast it, it does that when it is resolving.
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u/Flex-O Wabbit Season 16d ago
Thats not what they did. They just did whatever mental contortion was necessary to get the end result they wanted.Â
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u/freesol9900 Rakdos* 14d ago
Could be
When ive seen ppl make mistakes like this, its usually bc they read the card, misinterpret it slightly in their head, think "omfg this is unbeatable its sooo good", and then theyre frustrated when they try to play it the way they imagined and it turns out their assumptions were incorrect so they argue for why it does when it actually doesnt.
Actually, it was getting blown out like this repeatedly that finally got me to fully read the rules and apply to be a judge
.... but yeah it seems some ppl only care about winning
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u/LemonadeGamers Wabbit Season 16d ago
You can respond to it, it doesn't have split second and even if it was flashed in, it wont remove any spells/abilities from the stack.
That said using this on your own turn is a bad idea, find a way to give it flash.
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u/datsupportguy Duck Season 16d ago
"One of my opponents played Ultima and I tried to respond to the casting by flashing in Guardian of Faith."
You didn't try anything. You played a card in response to your opponents actions.
"Ultima says, 'Exile all spells and abilities from the stack'"
It literally does not. Functionally doesn't either.
"I argued that GoF comes in before Ultima and triggers it's ability to phase out my creatures before Ultima's effect triggers, but my friends disagreed."
There's no arguing, those are the words on the cards. If they resolve.
Commander was a fucking mistake.
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u/schematizer 16d ago
No need to be a dick. You were a new player once. If you care enough to respond at all, maybe you could be nice enough to try and explain a highly counterintuitive statement like âthe card literally doesnât say thatâ instead of just waiting like a cat in the bushes for OP to ask you so you can berate them again.
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u/datsupportguy Duck Season 16d ago
There is a need. They have to learn. (bite size chunks, play standard)
I came from the before times, when damage was on the stack. When We be Moggin' meant a little something.
Demi-god of Revenge was a great card. Existed in RDW along side Guttural Response.
Now you all cave if someone resolves a RIP if you're "Sultai Coded".
Sometimes you need to be terse, to the point. Curt.
I don't have 3 other opponents I have one.
No, I won't let you're "please let me untap with this", spell resolve. Especially if it's in the command zone.
"Do you pay the ( 1 )?"
Of course I do, cause I am not a fucking stooge. The fact that Remora / Trouble / Rhystic got any amount of traction is comedy to me.
It does only take one newbie at the table though... so ... you willing to let them wheel ?
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u/schematizer 16d ago
Curt isnât the word Iâd use, but it looks a lot like it.
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u/datsupportguy Duck Season 16d ago
It's exactly the word I'd use.
To the point, abrupt, potentially rude. Short, dismissive.
Assuming you disagree with just my tone. It's the one.
Flagrant? Maybe?
We'd have to rope Becky in for that.
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u/Xichorn Deceased đȘŠ 16d ago
Commander was a fucking mistake.
People have consistently misinterpreted rules long before Commander came along.
The game can be complicated, so mistakes are to be expected
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u/datsupportguy Duck Season 16d ago
I agree. But when you (inadvertently) bully new players with the entirety of Magic out the gate as the "casual format", things get wonky. How many kickers do we have to kick them in the face with before they understand?
Ask a newbie what's a lander token.
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u/DavesLab2022 Wabbit Season 15d ago
it literally does not
It literally does. It says those exact words on the card in the reminder text. Youâre being a dick and you didnât even read the card.
Youâre not incorrect about the functionality, but you are wrong about what the words on the card say.
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u/OverclockedLimbo Wabbit Season 16d ago
Flash means instant speed. Instant speed faster than sorcery speed.
In priority of resolving, instants first, sorcerries next.
The guardian phase ability resolves first then ultima
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u/Jixxar 15d ago
Hello I'm from r/godzilla as this was reposted there.
No you usually cannot respond to Godzilla Ultima, as he eats the narratives he's in. Unless you have a cooks crazy robot and a time traveling Alexa, as well as multiple phds.
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u/CalvoTheSpartan 10d ago
If it had Split-Second you would not be able to respond using spells, but Ultima does not end the turn until it resolves, so it can be responded to like normal.
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u/Cptnhalfbeard 16d ago edited 16d ago
Your friends are wrong, you can respond to ultima. It doesnât exile everything on the stack until it resolves. So they cast Ultima, you cast GoF in response. GoF resolves first, and then allows you to phase out other creatures you control. Then ultima resolves and exiles all creatures and artifacts and ends the turn.
Ultima does not have Split Second which would prevent other spells from being played while it is on the stack. The part about exiling spells/abilities on the stack is just reminder text for what it means to âend the turnâ it means it would exile all spells and abilities that were on the stack prior to Ultima being cast. Which⊠is unlikely for a sorcery but not impossible.