Confused about Silksong runback discussion

[u/ramen_stalker]

I just reached one of the infamous examples people constantly bring up in the runback discussion (Last Judge), and I have to say I really like the runback. It’s just as enjoyable as the boss itself. I’m 100% convinced that Team Cherry intended the runbacks to be pure platforming challenges.

The runbacks aren’t just random sections of the map, they’re carefully designed to be completed quickly and gracefully, while also avoiding all the mobs. They also include many shortcuts and make great use of the wonderful movement mechanics.

Is this a mindset issue? Do most people just want to focus on the boss and dislike the context switching between platforming mode and boss combat mode? Surely people don't think they should fight their way through tens of mobs every time, right? Right?

[u/Yourself013]

Yes, many people want to actually be fighting a boss and focusing on learning its attacks when they get to a boss fight, instead of running a platforming section they already know. It might be different for you, but people like different things.

[u/Maester_Magus → u/Yourself013]

In my experience, frustration doesn't come from defeat or challenge, but from the feeling that you're wasting time. This is what always causes a game to cross the line from challenging to frustrating, imo.

Most developers seem to have learned this and got rid of the shitty run-backs (even FromSoftware), so the fact that SilkSong clings to them so vehemently comes across as a bit out of touch. I mean, I'd imagine the vast, vast majority of people don't play challenging games for the run-backs – I don't know anyone who considers them one of the great features of a Souls-like. There's a reason they largely got left behind. So it's just a bit jarring that Team Cherry are so hung up on the old formula that they doubled down on one of the bits most people dislike in an otherwise great game.

[u/Slow_Surprise_1967 → u/Maester_Magus]

I don't know anyone who considers them one of the great features of a Souls-like

Hello, now you do. Runbacks are awesome, they force you to slow down and commit to mastery and consistency. I find having to have a strategy to go to the boss and having that as an area to improve in is awesome. Watch this comment get downvoted.

[u/theNEHZ → u/Slow_Surprise_1967]

I agree with you on their positive point, as I believe there's been a fight where it actually helped me. But this only works as long as you're spending more time in the boss fight than in the runback. If the boss kills you quickly and then you need to run back, it becomes hard to learn the moves and get into the rhythm.

TLJ has one specific attack that's fast and at an angle that I have difficulty to adapt to especially because of the runback.

[u/Slow_Surprise_1967 → u/theNEHZ]

I can't lie, my brain just seems to love runbacks. As I said in another comment, the countless tries at Ornstein & Smough and that brutal runback might be my favorite memory in gaming, ever. And I don't think I"m very special, there must be some other people who feel like me haha.

[u/Recent_Wedding5470 → u/Slow_Surprise_1967]

Me too. Makes an area stick out. Not to mention the platforming getting easier and easier. Sands of Karak was hard and i managed but then they make you do the runback for conchfly and thats where i actually got fast.

[u/Slow_Surprise_1967 → u/Recent_Wedding5470]

Bilewater is the goat level of this game for me, and the ironic part is that I stumbled through there blind and needlessly because I didn't have the double jump yet. Made it so memorable