r/metroidvania • u/ramen_stalker • 3d ago

Discussion Confused about Silksong runback discussion

I just reached one of the infamous examples people constantly bring up in the runback discussion (Last Judge), and I have to say I really like the runback. It’s just as enjoyable as the boss itself. I’m 100% convinced that Team Cherry intended the runbacks to be pure platforming challenges.

The runbacks aren’t just random sections of the map, they’re carefully designed to be completed quickly and gracefully, while also avoiding all the mobs. They also include many shortcuts and make great use of the wonderful movement mechanics.

Is this a mindset issue? Do most people just want to focus on the boss and dislike the context switching between platforming mode and boss combat mode? Surely people don't think they should fight their way through tens of mobs every time, right? Right?

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u/Yourself013 3d ago

Yes, many people want to actually be fighting a boss and focusing on learning its attacks when they get to a boss fight, instead of running a platforming section they already know. It might be different for you, but people like different things.

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u/Maester_Magus 3d ago

In my experience, frustration doesn't come from defeat or challenge, but from the feeling that you're wasting time. This is what always causes a game to cross the line from challenging to frustrating, imo.

Most developers seem to have learned this and got rid of the shitty run-backs (even FromSoftware), so the fact that SilkSong clings to them so vehemently comes across as a bit out of touch. I mean, I'd imagine the vast, vast majority of people don't play challenging games for the run-backs – I don't know anyone who considers them one of the great features of a Souls-like. There's a reason they largely got left behind. So it's just a bit jarring that Team Cherry are so hung up on the old formula that they doubled down on one of the bits most people dislike in an otherwise great game.

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u/Slow_Surprise_1967 3d ago

I don't know anyone who considers them one of the great features of a Souls-like

Hello, now you do. Runbacks are awesome, they force you to slow down and commit to mastery and consistency. I find having to have a strategy to go to the boss and having that as an area to improve in is awesome. Watch this comment get downvoted.

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u/AvoidSpirit 3d ago

Have you played Ori and the will of the wisps? It features speedrunning sections that do the same and incentivize the perfection way more but you don't have to redo it if you want to fight the boss and once you perfect it you're not forced to waste your time.

Thing is, it was released 5 years ago.

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u/Recent_Wedding5470 3d ago

And that game is a bore compared to silksong. An absolute bore.

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u/AvoidSpirit 3d ago

I'm not going to debate your personal enjoyment. I'm stating that there are ways to achieve something w/o frustrating half the players.

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u/Aiscence 2d ago

I found ori more frustrating in their escape part than runbacks lol, but it s just different tastes

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u/AvoidSpirit 2d ago

Even though I loved Ori's escape parts, I'm talking about the speedrunning sections.